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Old 2nd May 2011, 19:57   #166
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
i really dont know if its psychological or sheer coincidence. Just read your previous update on the car shutting down again and i had the same thing happen twice in the next 2 days. Both times i was trying to take a right turn and was shifting the gear.

The only change i can remember of is that i was driving her sedately for over a week now. Hardly saw anything above 2.5K rpm. When i think back now i have a feeling that the last time i experienced the same was when i had not revved her hard for over a week.

I have moved back to my slightly aggressive driving style and the car has been behaving normal.

Could it be the sooth deposit on some sensor causing this.
Haha Gemi, I'm pretty sure it's nothing psychological, but your car acting up. If it's really the sedate driving that is causing the issue don't you think Ford is taking the tag of an "Enthusiast's car" a bit too dangerously over the top?

Anyways, here is a major update from my side.
I had an appointment today with Kairali Ford, Trivandrum for getting my issue checked. I reached there at around 2:30 and was made to wait as usual till a S.A. got free and attended me. As we walked to the car, another gentleman joined us and started asking me questions like how long this issue has been plaguing my car and so on. He then asked me to get in for a test drive along with a mechanic there. I kinda lost my cool a bit and told him a test drive will not reveal anything due to the sheer unpredictability of the issue. I've had many test drives like this and all of them came out unsuccessful in recreating the issue and finally they would say "We can't do unless we see it". After arguing with him for over 10 mins, I came to know that he was the customer relations manager there. And he explained since this issue would be taken up with Ford Chennai directly, they would need to provide information on what all tests they conducted on the car and so on. Finally I decided to yield to him and I got behind the wheel and went on a test drive on a beach road.

Thank god! For the first time, I was able to recreate the problem on a test drive and the guy who accompanied me understood that I was not some crazy guy complaining about a non-existent problem. When we reached the A.S.S., the guy informed the CRM that the issue did crop up and I was relived to hear they accepting it. He came over soon and informed me that they would contact Ford Hotline for this issue and they would get back as to what step need to be taken next. They would apparently send the error report today itself and should be getting a reply by tomorrow.

I inquired if I could get a spare car till I get my car back since there are no other vehicles in my house including 2 wheelers which are banned at my place. I was not expecting it, but the CRM told me he would check and get back, later he came over and informed me that I could get a petrol Figo, which I accepted. I was given a chill metallic Titanium. I was happy that they could arrange a car for me.

I was told I would be updated on the status of my vehicle tomorrow. Hope it's not a major work which would hold up my car at the A.S.S. for a long time. Just want to get it back fit and fine. Will keep this thread updated with the outcome.

While I'm at it, some other points about the Petrol car I received and the A.S.S as a whole:
  • The AC seemed to cool better than in my car
  • I now totally get what some Titanium owners complained about a clicking noise from the left side of the dash. The spare car too had that noise and it seemed to be coming from the airbag assembly, not sure though
  • The gear shifts were smoother compared to my car. With which I mean there was not much jerking while I upshift from 2-3 and 3-4 etc, while my car most ofter jerks during these shifts and is quite annoying. I was wondering if there was any chance of this jerky shift being connected with the "engine switching off while using clutch" issue. Just speculating
  • The rear tires of the spare car are almost bald and the car wobbles at even rolling speeds, felt like sitting in a bullock-cart. I guess the car badly needs some wheel alignment/balancing
  • The car did feel slightly underpowered. The TDCi is certainly more fun to drive even though the power on paper is lesser than the petrol version. The pull in 3rd gear in the petrol version is incomparable with the eager turbo pull in the TDCi
  • Because of the above point, I felt the overtaking to be much easier in the TDCi. With the petrol, you need to plan well in advance
  • Braking seemed to be better than in my car. It had more bite
  • The horn felt much more difficult owing to the airbags on the steering wheel and I also realized my horn kinda sounds too fragile compared to the spare car. I guess one of the horn in my car might have conked off since I could clearly make out the twin tone horn in the spare car while mine is more like a single tone now. Need to confirm
  • Ford really needs to expand in terms of dealerships/service centers. The centers are getting crowded by the day and I heard the front desk lady telling a customer that they are fully booked until 6th of May.
  • The A.S.S. seemed to have more customers coming in at a point in time compared to the Hyundai A.S.S. I used to visit for our Xing until recently. Due to this bottleneck, service levels are bound to deteriorate which Ford can't afford right now

Last edited by jayded : 2nd May 2011 at 20:21.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 10:58   #167
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

^^ Those are some nice observations Jayded!

On the horn's dual sound, it is known issue for some batch of vehicles and a TSB was released long ago to solve it, talk to your service manager for the same! And obviously, please keep the thread updated.

Did you try checking the vehicle after dusting off the air filter? It worked for me!
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:23   #168
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Aah! You are just one very lucky guy to have been able to reproduce it during the test drive. Hope they nail the culprit this time.
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:44   #169
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Bad news as of now.

My SA called me an hour back and informed me that the injectors 1 & 3 of my car has some issues as per the ECU scan. I was told yesterday that they have checked the fuel for adulteration and also performed an ECU scan and sent across to Ford. They have got back to that and informed them that the injectors have developed issues and should be replaced.

Also the bad news is that Ford has dismissed the warranty claim of the replacement citing that the service history showed a fuel related issue the first time I had taken the vehicle to the A.S.S. for this problem (Which I still don't believe was a fuel-related problem). To add, the fuel currently present in the vehicle is fine and without any adulteration and it's from the same pump I frequent. It's the same pump from which I have been using all the time barring 2 or 3 rare instances. The SA informed me an estimate of 11-12 K for the replacement and said they are currently negotiating with Ford to get the warranty honoured.

It's disappointing to say the least and I have no clue how this can happen. Does it mean all the cars that have reported here with similar issues have their injectors hanging on the line? And trust me, I always make it a point to fill only from trusted pumps and have never had such issues with my 7 year old Santro Xing.

This is possibly the worst initial ownership experience I could have ever asked for
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Old 4th May 2011, 17:21   #170
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Bad news as of now.

My SA called me an hour back and informed me that the injectors 1 & 3 of my car has some issues as per the ECU scan. I was told yesterday that they have checked the fuel for adulteration and also performed an ECU scan and sent across to Ford. They have got back to that and informed them that the injectors have developed issues and should be replaced.

Also the bad news is that Ford has dismissed the warranty claim of the replacement citing that the service history showed a fuel related issue the first time I had taken the vehicle to the A.S.S. for this problem (Which I still don't believe was a fuel-related problem). To add, the fuel currently present in the vehicle is fine and without any adulteration and it's from the same pump I frequent. It's the same pump from which I have been using all the time barring 2 or 3 rare instances. The SA informed me an estimate of 11-12 K for the replacement and said they are currently negotiating with Ford to get the warranty honoured.

This is possibly the worst initial ownership experience I could have ever asked for

I smell something fishy.

Car dies only when clutch is depressed and what has this got to do with fuel injectors.

I am not too sure but defective injectors would make a lot of noise and other such issues. Anyway, let us wait on what Ford has to say on warranty.

OT: Can we insure our vehicle against such mechanical failures? Is there any such option?
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Old 4th May 2011, 18:05   #171
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
The gear shifts were smoother compared to my car. With which I mean there was not much jerking while I upshift from 2-3 and 3-4 etc, while my car most ofter jerks during these shifts and is quite annoying. I was wondering if there was any chance of this jerky shift being connected with the "engine switching off while using clutch" issue. Just speculating
Being torquey they are, diesel engines require the clutch to be released slowly and gradually. It jerks, if you try releasing the clutch as you do in a petrol car.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 4th May 2011 at 18:07.
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Old 4th May 2011, 18:48   #172
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Agree to Cliffhanger. I got my ZXi TDCi delivered last 14th & i had to adjust my driving style.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...8-go-figo.html (Go...Figo!)

Glued to this thread. I had filled Diesel from some non COCORO pumps during B'lore trip.
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Old 4th May 2011, 19:22   #173
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Stumbled upon this thread today only and wanted to share my similar experience with my Indigo XL DiCOR.
For quite sometime now this problem happens while I am on 3rd / 4th gear and press the clutch pedal - the rpm will drop below 600 (900 is the idling rpm) and then surge back to 1100 before settling down to 900. on some of these occasions, the rpm would drop below 400 and the engine would stall. But when that happens, the engine fires back to life on first attempt of cranking itself.
The problem is that this is not consistent or an everyday occurence. It happens on some days but on other days the car behaves very well. There is however a rhythemic clicking noise (like the tappet noise in the old ambassadors) when the engine is on. TASS says that this noise can be fixed only by overhauling the fuel system - an estimate of 80k as the injectors will have to be replaced when they are removed and that alone costs a whopping 56k!!
So am planning to sell the car off as-is and go for a new one soon - may be the Manza Aura ABS or upgrade to a Scorpio SLE.
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Old 5th May 2011, 02:21   #174
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Could there be another reason for this happening to our cars, given that it has all started occurring at various stages of ownership?
Given that we only use good quality fuel, and drive the same way as we usually do, could it be attributed to anything else, such as change in type of fuel?
Like I noticed this only after we switched from Turbojet to regular diesel, and after BSIV fuel (not the norm, but the fuel) was implemented. Apart from that there was no other change.
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Old 5th May 2011, 13:18   #175
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I smell something fishy.
I am not too sure but defective injectors would make a lot of noise and other such issues. Anyway, let us wait on what Ford has to say on warranty.

OT: Can we insure our vehicle against such mechanical failures? Is there any such option?
Exactly Anil, other than this engine switching off issue, there were no other problems showing up in my car that would be related to bad injectors. Moreover if they are tagged for replacement, that means they are damaged beyond repair/cleaning. The car should have definitely shown signs if it's in such a bad shape.

And as for your question on insuring such parts against failures, isn't that what a manufacturer's warranty is for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnaganathan View Post
Stumbled upon this thread today only and wanted to share my similar experience with my Indigo XL DiCOR.
For quite sometime now this problem happens while I am on 3rd / 4th gear and press the clutch pedal - the rpm will drop below 600 (900 is the idling rpm) and then surge back to 1100 before settling down to 900. on some of these occasions, the rpm would drop below 400 and the engine would stall. But when that happens, the engine fires back to life on first attempt of cranking itself.
The problem is that this is not consistent or an everyday occurence. It happens on some days but on other days the car behaves very well. There is however a rhythemic clicking noise (like the tappet noise in the old ambassadors) when the engine is on. TASS says that this noise can be fixed only by overhauling the fuel system - an estimate of 80k as the injectors will have to be replaced when they are removed and that alone costs a whopping 56k!!
So am planning to sell the car off as-is and go for a new one soon - may be the Manza Aura ABS or upgrade to a Scorpio SLE.
Almost the exact same issue that's reported here. Except that my car does not produce the clicking noise that you just mentioned. And I assume your car to be out of warranty right now and it's a really unfortunate situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Could there be another reason for this happening to our cars, given that it has all started occurring at various stages of ownership?
Given that we only use good quality fuel, and drive the same way as we usually do, could it be attributed to anything else, such as change in type of fuel?
Like I noticed this only after we switched from Turbojet to regular diesel, and after BSIV fuel (not the norm, but the fuel) was implemented. Apart from that there was no other change.
I would safely assume that the quality of fuel is only improving with these BS1, 2, 3 stages right? So if a part designed to work in a lower quality fuel line encounters problems while working in a much better quality one, isn't that a grave scene? Ford explicitly recommends the use of normal fuel and not the premium types with additives. So a move from Turbojet to normal fuel in your case should do only good to your car as per Ford.


Slightly OT. But could not help noticing it while reading about symptoms of damaged fuel injectors. Notice the advertisement on the left side? Yeah, pure coincidental I know

Screenshot taken from the site http://www.ehow.com

Name:  Injector.JPG
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Old 6th May 2011, 08:26   #176
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

jayded. Just go through RGKs thread. He too was driven towards two faulty fuel injectors. Check it its the same ones that are being mentioned in your case too. In that case i bet many other cars would give out these "not so perfect" values on the ecu scan.

Here is my sincere suggestion. Get the car back in same condition. Do some more testing on your own. As i mentioned earlier it could just be something as simple as the sooth developing on some sensor. Maybe Ford had a clue about this and hence the mentioned the weekly 3.5K rpm thing in the handbook (i dont think any other manufacturer documents it). If you have to spend 11.5K you better spend it after ruling out other minor things. I can assure you that neither you nor Ford can be 100% sure that the changed injectors would solve this behaviour. As i said in my first reply This is far too complicated to solve since it might be something very very minor.

Last edited by gemithomas : 6th May 2011 at 08:28.
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Old 6th May 2011, 09:08   #177
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
jayded. Just go through RGKs thread. He too was driven towards two faulty fuel injectors. Check it its the same ones that are being mentioned in your case too. In that case i bet many other cars would give out these "not so perfect" values on the ecu scan.

Here is my sincere suggestion. Get the car back in same condition. Do some more testing on your own. As i mentioned earlier it could just be something as simple as the sooth developing on some sensor. Maybe Ford had a clue about this and hence the mentioned the weekly 3.5K rpm thing in the handbook (i dont think any other manufacturer documents it). If you have to spend 11.5K you better spend it after ruling out other minor things. I can assure you that neither you nor Ford can be 100% sure that the changed injectors would solve this behaviour. As i said in my first reply This is far too complicated to solve since it might be something very very minor.


I completely agree with Gemi here, my FIGO has completed 14k and I havent faced this issue ever. The car was primarily being driven by my wife earlier and now we have a driver, and he has never complained about this issues popping up ever.

I take the car out over the weekends and do the 3.5k RPM thingy since it is mentioned in the booklet and also cos I like it when the FIGO is on song.

The only issue I have faced is loss of power once while I was moving out of a mall basement on an incline. And trust me this was scary since I had couple of cars behind me and VOILA the michelin's (which are supposedly the best ones around) lost grip . Thankfully the guy behind me noticed this and backed up just in time.

Apart from this scare, my FIGO suffers from all other smallish issues that others have pointed out:

1. Irritating clicky noise from the passenger Airbag and the service advisor thinks its better left alone.
2. Theres this clanky noise at times over rough roads from the dash.
3. Squeaks from the back.
4. And a weird noise when I apply the handbrake on an incline, which sounds like noises from a HULL .
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Old 6th May 2011, 10:27   #178
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Add another ford to the list. My ikon 1.6 has started having the same symptoms from last 3 days. Down shift from the 3rd or 4th gear at around 40 KMPH and the car dies down. However it starts on the first crank. Another observation i noted that, if i reduce the speed gradually while the clutch is depressed , the engine remains alive and kicking.

My mechanic is suggesting throttle body and injector cleaning. I do not know how much it will help or this is the solution in the right direction. The car has clocked 1.1 lakh kilometers and the mileage per liter is also acceptable at 9 to 10KMPL.

I am gonna get the throttle body and injector clean-up in the upcoming week and report back the results on this thread.

Last edited by pankaj_sachdeva : 6th May 2011 at 10:28.
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Old 7th May 2011, 02:12   #179
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
jayded. Just go through RGKs thread. He too was driven towards two faulty fuel injectors. Check it its the same ones that are being mentioned in your case too. In that case i bet many other cars would give out these "not so perfect" values on the ecu scan.

Here is my sincere suggestion. Get the car back in same condition. Do some more testing on your own. As i mentioned earlier it could just be something as simple as the sooth developing on some sensor. Maybe Ford had a clue about this and hence the mentioned the weekly 3.5K rpm thing in the handbook (i dont think any other manufacturer documents it). If you have to spend 11.5K you better spend it after ruling out other minor things. I can assure you that neither you nor Ford can be 100% sure that the changed injectors would solve this behaviour. As i said in my first reply This is far too complicated to solve since it might be something very very minor.
Incidentally I checked RGK's thread after reading your post and found that the same injectors are being replaced in my car too i.e., cylinder 1 and 3 But Gemi, the car should have already undergone the replacement since I was told that they would get the part in by Friday.

I do understand when you ask me to get my car back from the A.S.S. since they are not too sure about the problem either and would fiddle with too many unwanted stuff in there. I realize that, but let me add that I took my car in since it was getting on my nerves. The day before I took it in, it died 3 times on a single day, and that is something I could not accept or live with.

And about the replacement cost, the SA told me that the Ford Service Regional Manager would reconsider the warranty claim after the replacement and test drive. No idea if it's true or not. And seeing RGK's thread, I've something more to argue about just in case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bruiser View Post
The only issue I have faced is loss of power once while I was moving out of a mall basement on an incline. And trust me this was scary since I had couple of cars behind me and VOILA the michelin's (which are supposedly the best ones around) lost grip . Thankfully the guy behind me noticed this and backed up just in time.



4. And a weird noise when I apply the handbrake on an incline, which sounds like noises from a HULL .
Yeah, you might want to race it a bit to get the RPMs higher and then climb the ramp. There is a particular dead spot below that region.

And about the noise from the brake, that's a known issue as well. I complained it to the technician once and he asked me to sit inside a fiesta and stopped on a ramp and pulled the handbrake. I should say my Figo was a lot quieter than the Fiesta

Quote:
Originally Posted by pankaj_sachdeva View Post
I am gonna get the throttle body and injector clean-up in the upcoming week and report back the results on this thread.
Do let us know the results once you get the injectors cleaned.
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Old 7th May 2011, 16:07   #180
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

How did I miss this??
Jay, Sorry to hear that your car is getting worse. The A.S.S have no idea why the engine dies while down shifting, they are going to try and replace parts in your car 1 by 1 until they fix the problem or until you get fed up of going to the A.S.S.
The Injector story is just hogwash. Changing the injector might make things worse.

RGK complaiend about excess engine noise inside the cabin and they replaced the injectors for him.

I support Gemis claim.
My sincere request to you, don't let them change anything until they know for sure whats wrong with the car.
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