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Old 12th May 2011, 11:26   #211
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

So one common thing in most cases is that the steering is being turned. I bet you were doing a right turn
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Old 12th May 2011, 11:28   #212
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
So one common thing in most cases is that the steering is being turned. I bet you were doing a right turn
Yeah, for the people coming from opposite direction it is right :P

I was turning left!
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Old 12th May 2011, 13:09   #213
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
1500-2000 is where you get the best mileage, if you really want to cruise it would be above 2000 and up to 2900-3000 where you reach 120-130 in fifth gear, anything above that in fifth gear would make your engine sound like it is going to explode!!

Up-shifting varied with gear, first gear and second gears are too torquy to wait until 2300. Third would make do around 2000 and above that it is upto you when you want to upshift which depends on the condition.

Yeah you are right, engine lugs a lot at lower RPMs, you might want to avoid lugging the engine as it causes a lot of strain on your transmission system.


Update from my side: After about 2500 kms after air filter cleaning my car stalled again today, I was downshifting and trying to negotiate a turn and the a/c was on!!
What I found yesterday night - the downshift problem doesn't occur when I go from 4th to 3rd (unless rpm falls below 1200).

Doesn't occur when shifting from 3rd to 2nd if clutch is released very slowly and rpm remains above 1200 throughout - though even if rpm falls to 1000 the effect is barely noticeable.

Between 2nd and 1st the rpm has to be kept above 1300 to 1400 otherwise this is very very noticeable.

In fact within 2nd or 1st, if I release throttle suddenly then the car jerks.
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Old 12th May 2011, 14:38   #214
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
See one of my first few posts on this thread.
I agree. My thinking too, which is why I said
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2279598

What is its idling speed when AC is off, and when on?
When steering is turned, does idling speed change?
When releasing accelerator from higher rpm, engine under no load, does the engine 'catch' at idle rpm, above and then settle down, or below and then rise upto idle rpm.
Same with AC on?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 12th May 2011, 15:13   #215
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Yeah, for the people coming from opposite direction it is right :P

I was turning left!
I found it on both left and right turns.

Stalling does not happen to me yet on a turn often (don't remember whether it did happen more than once - I have been driving for only two weeks) - though given my inexperience slopes are an entirely different matter .
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Old 12th May 2011, 15:19   #216
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
What I found yesterday night - the downshift problem doesn't occur when I go from 4th to 3rd (unless rpm falls below 1200).

Doesn't occur when shifting from 3rd to 2nd if clutch is released very slowly and rpm remains above 1200 throughout - though even if rpm falls to 1000 the effect is barely noticeable.

Between 2nd and 1st the rpm has to be kept above 1300 to 1400 otherwise this is very very noticeable.

In fact within 2nd or 1st, if I release throttle suddenly then the car jerks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
I found it on both left and right turns.

Stalling does not happen to me yet on a turn often (don't remember whether it did happen more than once - I have been driving for only two weeks) - though given my inexperience slopes are an entirely different matter .
Interesting to see your efforts in replicating the problem. But I am really unable to make out if you are actually stalling the car or not.

Tell us one thing, are all your above findings(as in stalling incidents) during clutch depressed? Engine stalling while releasing the clutch is a different issue and stalling while/after depressing the clutch is other(which we are trying to find here). Just wanted to be clear as you were describing how you were releasing the clutch too. And we are concerned about the stalling after we depress the clutch, not when we release it!

Last edited by anilisanil : 12th May 2011 at 15:26.
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Old 12th May 2011, 17:22   #217
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If turning is involved always during a stall, could it be the fuel system failing for some reason due to change in diesel level ( fuel tank or filter or any other place with a air pocket)? Just a wild guess.
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Old 12th May 2011, 17:25   #218
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gharika View Post
If turning is involved always during a stall, could it be the fuel system failing for some reason due to change in diesel level ( fuel tank or filter or any other place with a air pocket)? Just a wild guess.
I do not think it is that speed a turn for the centrifugal forces to act up and it does not happen during high speed cornering. But yeah, a valid guess!
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Old 12th May 2011, 17:29   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil

I do not think it is that speed a turn for the centrifugal forces to act up and it does not happen during high speed cornering. But yeah, a valid guess!
How sharp a curve is, is also a factor for cf forces, so it could happen as low as 20kmph if its a sharp turn. But then it depends on the existence of a pocket, which can be eliminated perhaps by bleeding or pumping at the fuel filter
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Old 12th May 2011, 23:48   #220
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Unhappy re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
So far on this forum, Of all the Figo's, Only RGK and Jayded have this issue. And both of them own Figo TDCi. So it does not seem a common issue.

By the way, Jayded and RGK, what variant of the Figo are you guys owning?
And can i get your manufacturing dates PM'ed to me please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
That's a wrong assumption to make.

To name a few BHPians who have reported the same issue in this thread.
@ Mustang, Pls add me too to the list. I have experienced it four times now.
Mine is also a TDCi. Titanium. July 2010 make

I haven't yet come to a close shave situation yet. I'm taking it to the dealer tomorrow and knowing the expertise they have exhibited till date, i'm not confident that they are gonna get to the root of the issue.

@DRIV3R- thanks for collating the data

@ gemi- I'll keep a note of that '3.5k rpm' in mind further and also the aggressive driving

I do really hope that Ford takes up this issue seriously and gets this done under warranty. Else, the price list as detailed by jayded is quite SCARY to say the least
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Old 13th May 2011, 00:03   #221
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Post re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Only time will tell if this has solved the issue or not. Will update this thread accordingly, cheers!
It has been more than three days now and i do hope that the problem hasn't resurfaced for you.
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Old 13th May 2011, 00:23   #222
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Interesting to see your efforts in replicating the problem. But I am really unable to make out if you are actually stalling the car or not.

Tell us one thing, are all your above findings(as in stalling incidents) during clutch depressed? Engine stalling while releasing the clutch is a different issue and stalling while/after depressing the clutch is other(which we are trying to find here). Just wanted to be clear as you were describing how you were releasing the clutch too. And we are concerned about the stalling after we depress the clutch, not when we release it!
these are not my efforts to debug the problem - rather my experiments with my driving skills which are none too great.


sorry to confuse you:

stalling is not occurring for me much except in the usual suspects (starting on an incline, rpm dropping too much and too high a gear). As I wrote earlier I have stalled a few times.

Also my issue is not with the clutch depressed. Once the clutch is fully depressed nothing happens at all to the engine in my car. It would be really interesting if anything at all happens in any other car either, engine should be idling I would guess. I remember someone wrote that the moment he detects stalling (via chimes) he presses the clutch to let the engine run.


In a nutshell my problem is (while the clutch is at least partially engaged)
  1. unusually heavy engine braking happens unless I have the throttle pressed sufficiently (which is more than what would have been needed in the lower gear to begin with at that speed) when I downshift
  2. The rpm falls so fast that unless I carefully depress the pedal the car stalls - this is downshift, not upshift so it has been puzzling me because really the engine doesn't have to provide any power - the car is decelerating.
  3. In first and second gears, if I'm going at a constant speed for a few seconds at, say 1700 rpm, then if I release the pedal the engine brake is so heavy a nasty jerk is felt. I haven't tried it at higher gears.
I try to avoid braking without depressing the clutch at the same time - I'm afraid such a maneuver (engine brakes on purpose, and the brake may act against the engine too) may damage the car - may be my irrational phobia.

Now my guess is that if the behaviour in (3) happens for 3rd or 4th gear as well and someone presses the break gently without depressing the clutch first then the heavy engine breaking and the additional effect of the brakes (since clutch is still engaged, brakes will help slow down the engine too) can pull down the rpm even faster than I've been seeing - leaving the engine stalled.
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Old 13th May 2011, 10:39   #223
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
these are not my efforts to debug the problem - rather my experiments with my driving skills which are none too great.




Also my issue is not with the clutch depressed. Once the clutch is fully depressed nothing happens at all to the engine in my car. It would be really interesting if anything at all happens in any other car either, engine should be idling I would guess. I remember someone wrote that the moment he detects stalling (via chimes) he presses the clutch to let the engine run.

Jeez!! You did not confuse me, but I got confused because this thread was about car dying when clutch is pressed.

Sorry it was my mistake, I was to mean "engage" the clutch when I hear the dashboard chimes and ended up saying pressing the clutch! My mistake, sorry if that confused you.

I guess your car has no problem, and what you are experiencing is normal for diesels. They are quite torquey in lower gears and hence a lot of Engine braking.

To give an idea, a few of Figo TDCIs seem to be stalling when clutch is depressed while downshifting. And this would be irrespective of the driving skills and has got nothing to do with improper clutch release.

And so when you were describing your experiments, I inadvertently assumed that you too face the same problem and was trying to understand the premises of how you are trying to replicate as I was keen to replicate it at the service center.

But when I later found out that you seem to be posting about something else, I just wanted to clarify. No offense meant!
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Old 13th May 2011, 11:09   #224
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Going a bit off tpoic here, but since we ae discussing the stalling problem, I thought it appropriate to post my yesterady's experience here.

While driving back from office at around 2:10 PM, I had to stop on the way. After a brief stop, say about 2 mins, I cranked the car, it did not start. I switched off completely, then again cranked it. This time after a longish crank, the car came to life but I kind of felt the idling was not proper. Waited for the RPM to come down to around 700-800 and drove off. Nothing after that. Car ran just fine with the A.C on.

A couple of weeks back, I had given the car for second free service and I am repenting doing that. Now the car vibrates more than ever, the fuel economy has come down to around 12-13 KMPL, which otherwise used to hover at 17-18 KMPL in city driving. The clutch is more harder to operate and the car stalls even in first gear with A.C on and moving from stand still.

Will be writing to the Ford's official over the weekend. I have already started hating this car.
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Old 13th May 2011, 16:17   #225
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushmenon View Post
It has been more than three days now and i do hope that the problem hasn't resurfaced for you.
Lack of update had more to do with my modem at home going kaput.
But yeah, my car has been running fine for the past 4 days. It should have clocked around 180 Kms since the injector replacement. Frankly speaking I would like to believe that the real solution comes in the form of an ECU firmware update rather than such expensive and significant parts replacement so early in the car's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Update from my side: After about 2500 kms after air filter cleaning my car stalled again today, I was downshifting and trying to negotiate a turn and the a/c was on!!
From what I have noted in my car, once the stalling disease starts resurfacing after a hiatus, it's frequency is much more. I used to face it 2-3 times a day during that period. And finally I would get irritated and finally take it to the A.S.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
So one common thing in most cases is that the steering is being turned. I bet you were doing a right turn
Left turn, right turn, straightline, you name it, I've faced all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
I found it on both left and right turns.

Stalling does not happen to me yet on a turn often (don't remember whether it did happen more than once - I have been driving for only two weeks) - though given my inexperience slopes are an entirely different matter .
Vina, I seriously believe your car does not have any issues as of now, at least the problem that is being discussed here, touchwood. The engine braking and the jerking should be felt on all Figos. Even after 9K on the odo I've still not perfected a jerk-free shift. The downshift from 3-2 delivers a heavy engine braking too. I think currently there is nothing for you to worry and that's how the car is supposed to behave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gharika View Post
If turning is involved always during a stall, could it be the fuel system failing for some reason due to change in diesel level ( fuel tank or filter or any other place with a air pocket)? Just a wild guess.
The last time the issue showed up, the car would have hardly travelled 100 Kms after a tank-full. So fuel level should not be the cause.
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