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Old 5th July 2011, 14:34   #256
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I had a heart in mouth situation.

The CAR JUST DIED ON ME when I pressed the clutch!!
Take care man. It is really scary. This is not like other niggles reported with Figo. I hope Ford acknowledges this problem and better fixes it right away.
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:56   #257
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

anilisanil, I am really glad that no one got hurt.

Always downshift before you commit into anything with the Figo, be it a curve or an overtake. Never do it midway. However, I don't how how practical this suggestion will be.

Let's hope Ford takes your SOS on priority and solve this once and for all.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:14   #258
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I had a heart in mouth situation. Seriously, I just got saved from what seemed to be a 99% probable crash and that 1% acted for me.

I like pushing my car into the corners and when I find empty roads with corners, I push it. Today when I was doing this corner (I take this route daily), I thought my speed was a bit high for the corner, I intended to downshift and brake. The CAR JUST DIED ON ME when I pressed the clutch!!

The car went on spinning for three times while I literally stood on the brakes. There was no control whatsoever on the steering. Luckily for me there was no motorist and the lonely pedestrian saved himself by standing on the kerb, hugging the sheet metal walls of an under-construction building.

I am literally shivering as I type this.

As I understand the dynamics, I would have had the control of car if it were not to shut down. I agree I was partly at fault, but it was my daily route and was confident, but even then I expect my car to be running in such emergency conditions. Please note the road was completely dry and there is no good reason why I should lose traction. My tires too are pretty much OK.




Jayded: How is your car doing?

A few pics of the incident.

Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford-05072011030.jpg

The left and right wheel tracks intersected.

Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford-05072011031.jpg

The point from where I lost control.

Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford-05072011032.jpg

The path just before the curve where I stopped, so I couldn't possibly doing more than 50-60 Kmph. I wasn't indeed.

Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford-05072011033.jpg

A closer look at the skid marks


Edit: The car stalled again when I was returning to work place (This happened bang opposite to my workplace.) after taking these pics.

Last edited by anilisanil : 5th July 2011 at 15:35.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:23   #259
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

The pics give a perfect picture of what might have happened anil.
glad that no man or machine was hurt because of it!

forget all the other minor niggles, this problem really needs a solution soon!
Hope something positive happens soon.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:36   #260
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

In my figo i had noticed that the turning off happens if i downshift at around 1300 rpm. This typically happens when you are in 4th or 5th gear and you slow down but don't really change to a lower gear. I guess this tends to happen on the figo more because of the driveability. By the way the issue is there in the fiesta tdci also. I try to make sure that the rpms never drops to 1200-1300 on a high gear and i have stopped having this problem.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:53   #261
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
In my figo i had noticed that the turning off happens if i downshift at around 1300 rpm. This typically happens when you are in 4th or 5th gear and you slow down but don't really change to a lower gear. I guess this tends to happen on the figo more because of the driveability. By the way the issue is there in the fiesta tdci also. I try to make sure that the rpms never drops to 1200-1300 on a high gear and i have stopped having this problem.
Maybe that is the reason i have not experienced this issue if i am not driving sedately. Ford has not accepted this issue. They are still taking it as a one off case. Can we take it up collectively with Ford India?
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:58   #262
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Maybe that is the reason i have not experienced this issue if i am not driving sedately. Ford has not accepted this issue. They are still taking it as a one off case. Can we take it up collectively with Ford India?

I am pretty much sure that I am driving my car rather spiritedly. And this more often than not happens when steering is slightly turned and when you are about to downshift. This time even the a/c was not on.

I have already written to Ford's RSM with the details of people here. May be more and more should report this. But I couldn't disagree when they said they couldn't do much when they can't replicate the issue.

I just checked my tires, the wear and tear is just fine. If any of you feel that the issue could also be with me, let me know. I am now really concerned with this weird behavior specially when I have to carry my pregnant wife around.
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:08   #263
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Scary indeed! @Anil, I am glad you are safe. Hope Ford is taking this issue more seriously!

Does the Figo TDCi have a knock sensor installed?
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:24   #264
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Scary indeed! @Anil, I am glad you are safe. Hope Ford is taking this issue more seriously!

Does the Figo TDCi have a knock sensor installed?
I have got not idea if it TDCi has it. You suspect knock sensor going wrong? If it does, does it show up in CAM Diagnostics (scan guage?).

I have taken this up with A.S.S and ford too, but they are unable to replicate the same.

Also another question, would my engine re-ignite by itself if I release the clutch after it stalled (push start)?

Last edited by anilisanil : 5th July 2011 at 17:28.
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:41   #265
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I have got not idea if it TDCi has it. You suspect knock sensor going wrong? If it does, does it show up in CAM Diagnostics (scan guage?).

I have taken this up with A.S.S and ford too, but they are unable to replicate the same.

Also another question, would my engine re-ignite by itself if I release the clutch after it stalled (push start)?
1. I remember reading during the initial stages of the Figo launch discussion that the knock sensor is not there in the Figo TDCi. I am unable to trace that part of discussion anyway! But thats somewhere I would start looking at, a faulty knock sensor could also be a case if its there!

2. In a stall situation, releasing the clutch helps in bringing the car back to life if the car is still on the move.
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:44   #266
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Ford has not accepted this issue. They are still taking it as a one off case. Can we take it up collectively with Ford India?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
I am pretty much sure that I am driving my car rather spiritedly. And this more often than not happens when steering is slightly turned and when you are about to downshift. This time even the a/c was not on.

I have already written to Ford's RSM with the details of people here. May be more and more should report this. But I couldn't disagree when they said they couldn't do much when they can't replicate the issue.
I am at reproducing the event and I found that some amount of hard braking is required along with working the clutch and lowering of gear.
But I cannot consistently reproduce it.

Guys, Please can you try various combos. Many is always better than one.

I remember diesel Fiesta had this problem of engine switching off during the rainy season (monsoons). The problem was attributed to a loose cam sensor.
So when the engine switch off issue happened to me I went to the dealer to check the cam sensor but they confirmed it was not the issue. Now I think we need to find the real cause.

We should collectively approach Ford once the issue becomes reproducible. As for approaching Ford before that, I feel they are just gonna say it is a one off incident and wash their hands clean (so would any other OEM).

Some wishful thinking here .
A mass approach will get Ford to test it out on their own and come up with a solution discreetly and give us the solution.
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:46   #267
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Didnt get time to read more than 2 pages.

Here is something that may be helpful.

What is an idle air control valve (IAC)? - by Anthony Chilbert - Helium

It is known that a malfunctioning IAC valve can cause stalling of the engine at idle speeds. That is what happens when you disengage the clutch to downshift and engine speed falls to idle.

Personally, I dont know much on Figo engine, but hope this information helps!

reg
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:48   #268
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Scary indeed! @Anil, I am glad you are safe. Hope Ford is taking this issue more seriously!

Does the Figo TDCi have a knock sensor installed?

Do diesels knock? I though knocking occurs in petrol engines only and that too if the fuel-air mixture ignites prematurely during the compression stroke.

In diesels there is no fuel in the cylinder till the ignition stroke, so how will knocking occur?



Also how would a knock sensor help/hurt Anil's situation?



EDIT: I may have been wrong about diesels not knocking Engine knocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says diesels always knock but the last question still remains

Last edited by vina : 5th July 2011 at 17:53.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:03   #269
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by vina View Post


Also how would a knock sensor help/hurt Anil's situation?



EDIT: I may have been wrong about diesels not knocking Engine knocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says diesels always knock but the last question still remains
A knock sensor should sense any abnormal vibrations on the engine and would retard the timing to accommodate the detonation and to save the engine from further damage. So if the knock sensor does exist and went wrong, it retards the timing causing the engine to stall in wrong moments.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:09   #270
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Its a very unfortunate incident, and I hope you dont have a recurrence of this episode.
You mentioned that your car stalled again near your workplace: was your steering slightly turned then too? Have you tried to replicate/ simulate the same at different/ lower speeds?
A bit unlikely, but better to confirm you are fueling at your regular pump. At any stage of this episode, did your wheels lock at all?
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