Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th March 2011, 22:52   #76
BHPian
 
nischaltopno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 44
Thanked: 11 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I have faced this issue occasionally in my Ikon 1.6 & also my Fiesta 1.6. I am sure its got nothing to do with incorrect usage of clutch or anything. While on the move, a normal downshift can make the engine go OFF & I never lug my cars!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
I think i have had this problem couple of times on my figo tdci and once on our Fiesta tdci. basically i was going at 60-70Km/4th gear or maybe 5th gear and had to downshift due to traffic congestion. Downshifted to 3rd but didn't release the clutch since the traffic slowed even more and wanted to shift to 2nd. The engine suddenly stalled. Cranked again.The engine started immediately and was off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
First of all, we do not know about this
Secondly, I checked, the fuel pump is the same as that on the diesel fiesta, the diesel fusion and the diesel ikon. And it has not got any such problem.
It does not look like it's a problem with Figo only (and with diesel cars), though large number of problems are reported in Figo. It might be because of the sheer number of Figos on the road and the number of ownership reports of Figo.
nischaltopno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2011, 23:12   #77
Senior - BHPian
 
Captain Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,212
Thanked: 497 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

asdfvinay, Ford @SS needs to do this. You can not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
First of all, we do not know about this
Secondly, I checked, the fuel pump is the same as that on the diesel fiesta, the diesel fusion and the diesel ikon. And it has not got any such problem.

What i would advice you to do is

1. Get a fuel tank cleaning done up first
2. Get the fuel inlet/outlet pipes checked
3. Measure the density of fuel in your car (after you remove it during tank cleaning)
4. Also look for any visible impurities in the fuel.
5. Get back to me after this
Thanks for the reply Mustang, I think we can rule out the fuel pump being faulty on all these figos.
So if the Injectors and fuel pump are little blocked will reeving the engine to 4,000 or 4,500 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear help a little?

anilisanil and jayded
Did you try doing this?
Captain Slow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2011, 23:15   #78
BHPian
 
Garipagol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 192
Thanked: 7 Times
Red face re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
HPS system is powered by engine. The oil pump derives power from engine and compresses the transmission fluid. This high pressure fluid is injected systematically to assist you when you are turning the wheel. If engine dies, it is but natural to lose power on the steering. I strongly suggest one should know what exactly one is suggesting! I guess you are talking about an EPS which derives power from the battery.
Agreed, I stand corrected. I had based my post on what I had learnt from the folks at workshop of my car. I will re check but I accept that the steering / brake systems are not the same in all cars.

Regards

Last edited by Garipagol : 15th March 2011 at 23:18.
Garipagol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 00:21   #79
BHPian
 
jayded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TVM, HYD
Posts: 512
Thanked: 303 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
What i would advice you to do is

1. Get a fuel tank cleaning done up first
2. Get the fuel inlet/outlet pipes checked
3. Measure the density of fuel in your car (after you remove it during tank cleaning)
4. Also look for any visible impurities in the fuel.
5. Get back to me after this
Will ask the guys to check the points that you have mentioned here. Thanks a lot, hope they agree to it.

If at all it's a problem with the fuel line/pump, any particular explanation/reason why this happens when the clutch is pressed. Just to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfvinay View Post
How do we do that? Is it something that we can do it without any special equipment?

-Vinay
Most probably not, you will need specific equipments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nischaltopno View Post
It does not look like it's a problem with Figo only (and with diesel cars), though large number of problems are reported in Figo. It might be because of the sheer number of Figos on the road and the number of ownership reports of Figo.
But I still think the number of Swift and Punto/Linea owners far exceed the Figo owners here. May be they haven't responded yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
So if the Injectors and fuel pump are little blocked will reeving the engine to 4,000 or 4,500 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear help a little?

anilisanil and jayded
Did you try doing this?
Hi Captain, actually I tried revving it a bit hard, but could cross 4K only for few seconds since the road ran out, but did a fair bit of 3K+ which I seldom do. The car does 100 kmph at 2,500 rpm

The current DTE is 75 (it was 130 - 140 when I faced the issue on Sunday) and on my way I tried to replicate the issue, but in vain.
jayded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 08:44   #80
Senior - BHPian
 
anilisanil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,435
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
asdfvinay, Ford @SS needs to do this. You can not.



Thanks for the reply Mustang, I think we can rule out the fuel pump being faulty on all these figos.
So if the Injectors and fuel pump are little blocked will reeving the engine to 4,000 or 4,500 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear help a little?

anilisanil and jayded
Did you try doing this?
I rev my engine to 3500-4000 every other week. In fact I revved it yesterday morning and this happened yesterday evening.

@Jayded: You need not go to 3500-4000 rpm in higher gears only. Doing 60-70 in second gear would also serve your purpose.
anilisanil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 08:53   #81
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chandigarh
Posts: 198
Thanked: 32 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

I have had similar experience with my 1600 km old Figo D. I thought its just the engine characteristics that on down shifting, the engine is not able to response and takes about 2-3 sec to get back to the right note. I also had a few stalls and though it might be that I am not used to the clutch of the new vehicle yet. The double crank prevention system makes it difficult to start the engine on the roll. Now that I see it as a common problem, I will try to replicate this and report back. Seems like the Fuel System is not able to supply the correct fuel amount when the engine is on high rev due to down shift but the throttle is at zero position. Just My Thoughts.
gharika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 09:15   #82
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,316
Thanked: 233 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
Thanks for the reply Mustang, I think we can rule out the fuel pump being faulty on all these figos.
So if the Injectors and fuel pump are little blocked will reeving the engine to 4,000 or 4,500 RPM in 3rd or 4th gear help a little?
It may help, so you can try this. Do this for a minute continuously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Will ask the guys to check the points that you have mentioned here. Thanks a lot, hope they agree to it.

If at all it's a problem with the fuel line/pump, any particular explanation/reason why this happens when the clutch is pressed. Just to know..
Reason may be that when the clutch pedal is pressed then the engine reaches the idle rpm stage for a few millisecs or a second. This causes the supply of fuel in the engine to be lessened and if the fuel has contamination issues or the pump is faulty then maybe the engine can die down.
Mustang.101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 10:21   #83
BHPian
 
nischaltopno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 44
Thanked: 11 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
But I still think the number of Swift and Punto/Linea owners far exceed the Figo owners here. May be they haven't responded yet
I was referring to Ford family only.

No doubt that the number of cars with fiat engine (especially swift & dzire) outscores the ford TDCI. But since we haven't heard anything on those it can be that this problem is not there in those cars or as you said they haven't reported. Hope they are read this thread and give their valuable inputs.
nischaltopno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 12:08   #84
Senior - BHPian
 
anilisanil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,435
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
It may help, so you can try this. Do this for a minute continuously.




Reason may be that when the clutch pedal is pressed then the engine reaches the idle rpm stage for a few millisecs or a second. This causes the supply of fuel in the engine to be lessened and if the fuel has contamination issues or the pump is faulty then maybe the engine can die down.

@Mustang: Spoke to the service advisor, he suspects the clutch switch is faulty and as with any other advisor refuses to accept the reason as fuel/pump. Could clutch switch be an issue? What do you think?
anilisanil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 13:46   #85
BHPian
 
jayded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TVM, HYD
Posts: 512
Thanked: 303 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Ok guys, I just got back home from the A.S.S., unfortunately my car has not!

As always they could not find out the exact cause of the issue, and I don't blame them since it's pretty hard to single out an issue without in-depth look into the possible causes. To add to the difficulty, the ECU scan showed no issues.

A guy drove my car (pretty sedately), no issues noted. Then he asked me to get behind the wheels. I tried my usual stunts to replicate the issue, still no signs. I also told him about the gear shifting inducing jerk most of the time and the same happened when he was driving too, he claimed it's there for all Figos and Fiestas, I agreed and didn't question more.

Then on getting back to the A.S.S the car was taken for ECU scanning. I was near the computer when the readings were shown. Of the 4 injectors, on idle, the pressure of one was more compared to other, while on applying the throttle, all the 4 showed a similar reading (reading of 1 i guess). The S.E. told me that is how it should be, so that too not an issue. No other problems or error codes were generated in the scan report

He asked the guy who drove my car to check the fuel line and he came back with some sample on his palm and on smelling it he said it smelled a lot of kerosene. I too took a whiff and it did smell somewhere like kerosene, I'm not sure if that is actually how diesel should smell. I know petrol does not.

The S.E. asked the guy to check some "coupler" which I don't know what. That was said to be just fine, after checking. The S.E. then came to me and said it could be a problem with the fuel contamination. So he suggested emptying the tank, cleaning it and the the fuel lines, and may be changing the fuel filter, fuel-up from a different pump and try. He mentioned that I would need to be paying for the fuel filter (1,300/-?). I was standing a little doubtful and I checked with him if that would be covered under warranty, to which he explained that since it's not a manufacturing issue, the customer will have to pay for it. I also checked if there is any cleaning procedure available for the fuel filter, but he said such a thing does not exist, only replacement is usually done. He told they could just shake off the fuel caught in the filter and that's the only cleaning that they could do.

After that he left for some urgent work. I stood there for close to half an hour more and then I called up the guy who test drove my car and asked him what steps they are planning. He said they have reported this to Ford India and is waiting for the reply. I don't know if that was true or just a misunderstanding. I was also told in between that they would check the fuel sample for possible contamination. At present I don't know if they will work as the S.E. told or if they'll wait for Ford to respond.

According to the S.E., the issue is clearly not with the fuel pump or the injectors clogging since he says the car will show far more issues if that was the case. No idea now as to what the cause would be. Anyways waiting for their call, which most probably would not come, I will try calling them up later and check about the status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gharika View Post
I have had similar experience with my 1600 km old Figo D. I thought its just the engine characteristics that on down shifting, the engine is not able to response and takes about 2-3 sec to get back to the right note. I also had a few stalls and though it might be that I am not used to the clutch of the new vehicle yet. The double crank prevention system makes it difficult to start the engine on the roll. Now that I see it as a common problem, I will try to replicate this and report back. Seems like the Fuel System is not able to supply the correct fuel amount when the engine is on high rev due to down shift but the throttle is at zero position. Just My Thoughts.
Yes man, seems to be a similar issue I am facing here. How many times have you faced the issue and did it all happen while downshifting attempt and pressing the clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post

Reason may be that when the clutch pedal is pressed then the engine reaches the idle rpm stage for a few millisecs or a second. This causes the supply of fuel in the engine to be lessened and if the fuel has contamination issues or the pump is faulty then maybe the engine can die down.
Hi Mustang, thanks for the explanation, seems to make proper sense.
As written above, took the car to the F.A.S.S. and the S.E. is sure that it's not the problem with the pump since that would show much more issues like mising, jerky ride etc.


@asdfvinay

Sorry man, seems like I missed your post. What you said makes perfect sense but I don't think that could be an issue with my car here. I haven't actually noticed the rpm going down that rapidly. If that was the case, then there should be higher frequency to this issue, but it happens very very rarely. Thanks for the inputs, will double check to make sure

Last edited by jayded : 16th March 2011 at 13:54.
jayded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 14:13   #86
BHPian
 
streetlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New Delhi, India
Posts: 216
Thanked: 11 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Hi jayded,

Do check the master and slave cylinders and bleed if required. Might be one of the possible reasons.
streetlife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 14:16   #87
Senior - BHPian
 
gemithomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,364
Thanked: 135 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

@jayded: Thanks for the prompt update.

I just did a google for - car engine dies while downshifting - and i was :shocked to see the number of results with almost the same issues. Tried reading through quite a few of them but unfortunately none of them had a proper solution to this.
gemithomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 16:16   #88
BHPian
 
jayded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TVM, HYD
Posts: 512
Thanked: 303 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Called up the S.A. who was assigned my car after I left the A.S.S.
He said that the following is being done on the car
1) Fuel tank cleaning
2) Fuel line, inlet,outlet cleaned
3) Fuel filter cleaning (Not sure if he said cleaning or replacement)
jayded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 16:34   #89
Senior - BHPian
 
anilisanil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,435
Thanked: 287 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Called up the S.A. who was assigned my car after I left the A.S.S.
He said that the following is being done on the car
1) Fuel tank cleaning
2) Fuel line, inlet,outlet cleaned
3) Fuel filter cleaning (Not sure if he said cleaning or replacement)
Which of these are charged and which are not?
anilisanil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2011, 16:42   #90
BHPian
 
CRDIsamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Miraj MH 10
Posts: 122
Thanked: 85 Times
Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Ok guys, I just got back home from the A.S.S., unfortunately my car has not!
=======================
If that was the case, then there should be higher frequency to this issue, but it happens very very rarely. Thanks for the inputs, will double check to make sure

Hi

You seem to be on the right track. First clean the fuel lines. Change the Diesel Filter before touching the FIP or the Injectors. If ou have reported the problem as soon as you have observed and have not run the car on the contaminated/adulterated fuel FIP and Injectors wont get damaged.
CRDIsamir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford SYNC: Firmware upgrade made easy for cars too! bejoy The International Automotive Scene 5 12th December 2014 17:20
My Linea jerks while downshifting the car DownTheLine Technical Stuff 38 24th November 2009 22:31
Judder while downshifting (Safari 2.2) rb2399 Technical Stuff 8 15th May 2008 00:44
My Accent ECU "hangs" occasionally Rehaan Technical Stuff 37 1st September 2004 09:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:39.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks