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Old 17th March 2011, 22:42   #106
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Eagerly waiting for some more good news jayded, so far, so good. Btw kerosene and diesel do have distinct smells. Petrol pumps do mix k and d as k is cheaper and gives more FE. Most of the diesel autowallahs do demand such kind of stuff. But does it cause any such problem, I have no idea.
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Old 17th March 2011, 22:56   #107
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Eagerly waiting for some more good news jayded, so far, so good. Btw kerosene and diesel do have distinct smells. Petrol pumps do mix k and d as k is cheaper and gives more FE. Most of the diesel autowallahs do demand such kind of stuff. But does it cause any such problem, I have no idea.
Mustang, any idea about the clutch switch that I was talking about?
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Old 18th March 2011, 07:44   #108
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

^ Too technical for me, I don't usually do this kind of stuff, lol.
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Old 18th March 2011, 13:04   #109
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

@Jayded, I hope the problem gets resolved with this. However, I think its more than the fuel quality that is causing this trouble!

Awaiting your feedback mate!
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Old 18th March 2011, 15:48   #110
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by Mustang.101 View Post
Eagerly waiting for some more good news jayded, so far, so good. Btw kerosene and diesel do have distinct smells. Petrol pumps do mix k and d as k is cheaper and gives more FE. Most of the diesel autowallahs do demand such kind of stuff. But does it cause any such problem, I have no idea.
Thanks for the info Mustang. Hope the Figo does well from now on.

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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
@Jayded, I hope the problem gets resolved with this. However, I think its more than the fuel quality that is causing this trouble!

Awaiting your feedback mate!
No idea man. Didn't expect fuel quality to be the culprit either since many users were reporting the same issue. Anyways car looking good as of now.
Have a trip planned to Bangalore and back (NH-7) next week. Will get a better picture after that 1,500 odd kms travel. Can't wait to hit the highway with the Figo.
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Old 18th March 2011, 18:26   #111
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

The Figo TDCi has a Diesel particulate filter right? I guess the MJD engines doesn't require one.

Maybe, the DPF gets clogged due to the type of Diesel available here. My question is, will clogging of DPF lead to stalling?
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Old 18th March 2011, 19:23   #112
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
The Figo TDCi has a Diesel particulate filter right? I guess the MJD engines doesn't require one.

Maybe, the DPF gets clogged due to the type of Diesel available here. My question is, will clogging of DPF lead to stalling?
no to both.
it may have a closed coupled DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst)
the DPF clogging does happen. hence there is something called regeneration as solution. there is a differential pressure sensor in a DPF which measures the difference of pressure accross the DPF substrate. when this pressure goes above a certain point, regeneration has to be triggered which will burn away the soot. this is also called post injection. fuel is injected very late in the power stroke (something like 60-120 degrees ATDC) which helps raise the exhaust temperatures. the hot exhaust burns away the soot. post injection does not contribute much towards increase in engine torque.

AFAIK, the multijet engines in india do not run a DPF. its not really required for Euro 4 regulations. Euro 5 would almost mandate a DPF.
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Old 18th March 2011, 19:34   #113
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by anilisanil View Post
Hi thanks for the info, could you please let us know how exactly the ECU uses this info?
the clutch switch status will be use in conjunction with the vehicle speed sensor for reference in the drivability map and fuelling. if the clutch is pressed, fuelling will be different.

an example: youre driving normally, 5th gear @ 80 kmph. thats about 1900-2000 rpm (??) i estimate the fuel to be about 25-30 mg per cylinder per stroke at this time.
and now you press the clutch. the vehicle is moving. hence the speed sensor on the output shaft will still tell you the vehicle speed (its kinda more complicated than that, i have over simplified this)
so the engine will return to low idle in about 1 second. you can press the accelerator pedal and the engine can rev out. the fueling is different in this case. somewhere around 7-8 mg per cylinder per stroke.

this is just one case, there are several conditions like this. removing the clutch switch would just show an error. it wont work

in conclusion, i d say the ECU works in conjunction with other ECUs and sensors and the calculations and algorithms are beyond me. if someone works with ECU, would love to hear more about this.
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Old 19th March 2011, 00:35   #114
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

A slightly bad news/update to be conveyed guys!

My car doesn't seem to have fully recovered from the illness.
Today while returning home from work, I was traveling up a straight stretch at around 70kmph in 4th gear and on seeing another car ahead of me I lifted my foot off the throttle and the car gradually decelerated due to the incline. When I reached about 3-4 meters close to the other car, I pressed the clutch fully to downshift and I heard a chime from the dashboard. I immediately looked at the instrument cluster and one of the yellow bulbs were lit (Didn't clearly note which one). I knew the engine was going to die since that's when the chime is heard. I took my foot off the clutch at that point and avoided the stalling. The car moved on fine after that.

So I guess after all the fuel was not the real culprit
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Old 19th March 2011, 18:16   #115
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

It happened yet again today evening.
Approached a red signal, braked and attempted a shift from 4th to 3rd, engine died on depressing the clutch.
A.S.S. is working tomorrow, hence have fixed an appointment in the morning. Hoping for the best.

As per my observation, in my car, it usually happens during a shift from 4th to 3rd, but the shift is never completed. The car dies in the process.
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Old 19th March 2011, 18:58   #116
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

There must be something else at fault here which the A.S.S is missing.
Take the SA with you for a long drive and try and replicate this problem. Only then will they take you seriously.

I got a call from my local ford A.S.S saying that they are having a service camp next week and some people from Chennai plant will be coming. See if you can meet someone who can actually fix your car.
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Old 19th March 2011, 19:10   #117
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

I am facing exactly the same issue, but with my Swift VDi. Maruti dealer is absolutely clueless. In my case it happens when the A/c is turned on and the fan speed is 3 or 4 and I downshift from 4th to 3rd. Moment I apply brakes and press the clutch to downshift, engine dies down.

The M.A.S.S. have tried to replicate the problem, but haven't been able to. They maintain it is "clutch sensor adjustment issue", but don't have a permanent fix. I think the only recourse is to write to Maruti officials about the problem.
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Old 19th March 2011, 19:46   #118
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

I wouldn't buy any of the fuel additives suggestions or any fuel adulteration probables!
my gut feel says, it could be a electronic relay issue with the primary fuel pump. The fuel relay IC could heat up producing transient jerks in circuit cutting off the primary pump, setting the engine to off mode. Can you get that checked?
And its almost impossible to replicate the problem while on a test drive:(
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Old 19th March 2011, 21:17   #119
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
There must be something else at fault here which the A.S.S is missing.
Take the SA with you for a long drive and try and replicate this problem. Only then will they take you seriously.

I got a call from my local ford A.S.S saying that they are having a service camp next week and some people from Chennai plant will be coming. See if you can meet someone who can actually fix your car.
Due to sheer bad luck the issue will not pop up during a test drive, but will take one tomorrow with the SA. Hope it shows up

On what dates is the service camp happening? And will it be across all dealers in Bangalore? I'm asking since I will be in Bangalore for the 2nd half of next week and my sister's apartment, where I will be staying, is very close to Lathangi Ford at Banergatta road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudhirbhan View Post
I am facing exactly the same issue, but with my Swift VDi. Maruti dealer is absolutely clueless. In my case it happens when the A/c is turned on and the fan speed is 3 or 4 and I downshift from 4th to 3rd. Moment I apply brakes and press the clutch to downshift, engine dies down.

The M.A.S.S. have tried to replicate the problem, but haven't been able to. They maintain it is "clutch sensor adjustment issue", but don't have a permanent fix. I think the only recourse is to write to Maruti officials about the problem.
Hi sudhirbhan,
How often does this happen in your car? And have they done any adjustment to the clutch sensor? What all have been done till now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopa99 View Post
I wouldn't buy any of the fuel additives suggestions or any fuel adulteration probables!
my gut feel says, it could be a electronic relay issue with the primary fuel pump. The fuel relay IC could heat up producing transient jerks in circuit cutting off the primary pump, setting the engine to off mode. Can you get that checked?
And its almost impossible to replicate the problem while on a test drive:(
Thanks gopa99, I'll surely keep this in mind when I visit A.S.S. tomorrow but it has to be seen how competent they are in carrying out/diagnosing such issues. Can't blame them too. The ECU scan showed no error codes last time.
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Old 19th March 2011, 22:16   #120
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Just read this about the EGR Valve: If the valve is getting stuck once in a while it could cause the engine to die off when there is a sudden change in load conditions. Cleaning the EGR could solve the issue. Maybe the sudden change in engine load when we press the clutch could cause this. This is a possibility since its only the Figo that has a BSIV TDCI running on BSII fuel for some time.

Other things that could lead to such behaviour are
- A Dirty throttle valve controller
- A vacuum hose fisher especially in connection with the brake booster
- A malfunctioning Idle position sensor

I really dont know what these things really mean or where you can find these things on the TDCi engine.

All the best hunting for a solution. Please do keep us updated.

Last edited by gemithomas : 19th March 2011 at 22:18.
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