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Old 19th March 2011, 22:29   #121
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Guys I am glued to this thread.

I am on the verge of booking a Figo. Already discussed with Mustang regarding this. I thought Ford would have ironed out any issues because it is 1 year since the launch.

Q1 Do i need to wait for a little more?

Q2 If it is an issue with fuel quality will Super/Turbo Diesel help in any way?

Q3 Anybody tried disengaging the EGR valve permanently in Figo?

Last edited by Skyline GT-R : 19th March 2011 at 22:31.
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Old 19th March 2011, 23:06   #122
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

More reading makes me even more confused.

Not sure if i'm helping you or confusion you by this
Blow Off Valves:

Blow-Off Valves eliminate compressor surge when changing gears. Excessive back pressure is created when the throttle is closed during gear changes or deceleration, causing turbo cavitation. This is detrimental to the life of the turbocharger. Fitting a BOV will substantially improve this problem. Installing a BOV will also significantly reduce turbo spool-up time. A substantial improvement in response from the turbo between gearshifts and a quicker boost delivery will result in an increase in torque at lower RPM....

.....If the engine backfires or stalls upon deceleration or gear changes, check all BOV connections

also see
Blowoff valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 19th March 2011, 23:29   #123
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
Fitting a BOV will substantially improve this problem.
, Does that mean BOV substantially decreases the problem?

-Vinay.
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Old 20th March 2011, 01:46   #124
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Whoa! That's some extensive research there Gemi, thanks a lot for the info. I'm surely making a note of these points and will be talking to the A.S.S. guys about the same. Since these are issues that they do not encounter frequently (?), I just wish they do not blatantly dismiss my words saying "No, Figo doesn't come with all those stuffs!". I know they are pretty good at doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Guys I am glued to this thread.

I am on the verge of booking a Figo. Already discussed with Mustang regarding this. I thought Ford would have ironed out any issues because it is 1 year since the launch.

Q1 Do i need to wait for a little more?

Q2 If it is an issue with fuel quality will Super/Turbo Diesel help in any way?

Q3 Anybody tried disengaging the EGR valve permanently in Figo?
Hi Skyline, my opinions

Q1 --> There would be no clear answer to that. There are 70,000 odd Figo's on the road now, and I guess only a very small fraction of those might be facing this issue. I just happen to be one such owner.
Q2 --> Ford does NOT recommend anything other than normal diesel. Moreover the Super/Turbo diesel which you are referring to have additives in them which might cause more harm that good in this case.
Q3 --> No idea about this

Last edited by jayded : 20th March 2011 at 01:48.
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Old 20th March 2011, 13:02   #125
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Just back from the A.S.S.

The S.E. was not in office. S.A. called him up to check what should be done on my car. S.E. told him over phone that the Vehicle Speed Sensor had indeed reported some error code when the ECU was scanned on Wednesday and instructed him to replace it (This same S.E. had told me that there were no error codes after the ECU scan on Wednesday , so not sure if it had really shown some error code or he just made it up today to replace that part)

They have now replaced the V.S.S in the car. I test drove after leaving the A.S.S. for close to 40 Kms pulling all stunts, but the car didn't die on me. S.A. has asked me to bring in the car tomorrow for another inspection, which I will be doing. I was told in case anything pops up again, they will contact Ford for the further troubleshooting steps and still if doesn't work Ford technicians would directly come over for the inspection.

Anyways too early to tell now. Will have a small spin in the city this evening, will report back in case of any issues.

Vehicle Speed Sensor Information - Description, Operation And Location
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Old 20th March 2011, 14:07   #126
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Hi sudhirbhan,
How often does this happen in your car? And have they done any adjustment to the clutch sensor? What all have been done till now?
Jay, the frequency of occurrence is unpredictable and that is the whole issue. Other than the fact that a/c was on and the blower was at 3/4, there is no other common factor.
I pointedly asked them if it has to do something with the air filter; you know, not enough air getting in thru the air filter, thereby making the mixture rich and in turn some sensor activating the engine shutdown. Gurus, please pardon if this theory does not make sense; am a layman u see.

M.A.S.S shot that theory down and maintained it is a sensor issue only. They also claimed to have done some adjustment to the clutch sensor. But the problem kept recurring after a lull period of 500-600 kms. My car has done numerous trips to the dealer just because of this one issue. :(

It appears I am not alone in this saga, a quick search on the net yesterday indicated this as a problem that others have faced too. However in some cases the clutch switch (same as sensor?) was replaced and they are seemingly living happily ever after.

Right now I am unable to get the car out of my compound due to some roadwork that is going on. Once that is done, the car will pay another visit to the dealer. Will keep you updated.
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Old 20th March 2011, 14:09   #127
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

@ Jayded: If your speed sensor was having problems shouldn't it have affected your speedometer first??!!

PS: O.K here is the link. A faulty speed sensor 'could' throw out values for abnormally high speeds that would cause the ecu to cut off the fuel flow.

Seriously. You are going to be one lucky guy if you are able to sort out this issue. The reasons for such behaviour are too complex and varied.!!

Last edited by gemithomas : 20th March 2011 at 14:20.
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Old 20th March 2011, 18:17   #128
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

That is good news Jay, but Gemi is spot on, did you have any speedometer error ? Or issues with the speedometer acting funny?
Jay be careful don't let them make your figo into a guinea pig experimenting, replacing and fiddling around with unnecessary parts.

The service camp is being held at metro ford. I will be taking my figo for the second service. Just crossed 10,000KM today.
I will going to Metro ford on Wednesday or Thursday.

If you are in Bangalore and need some help feel free to give me a buzz.
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Old 20th March 2011, 18:37   #129
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Somehow did not have time to get into internet and I missed this very critical and interesting thread.

Very sorry to hear Jayded. Please get this completely sorted out.

I have not had this experience during normal driving (touch wood), had stalled when doing a speed breaker which I feel in any type of car due to lower rpm and high load. I have even done sedate driving and even tested shifting gears when the engine has started to lug (not many times just one or two)

My observations on reading this whole thread in one shot.
- Not due to poor fuel quality
- Not due to lower quantity of fuel
- Not due to sudden pressing of clutch (then it should happen at idle also)
- Not because of A/c is on (when a/c is on then engine rpm is increased by 100 to serve the load)

As said by many, some electronics malfunctioning has started happening in some cars. I was always scared to have electronics in Indian vehicles as they are supposed to malfunction any time due to higher temperatures in India.
Eventhough these electronic components are thoroughly tested at high temps the chances of failure are always there and that too VFM cars are tend to have more.

One doubt - is the stall happening during days when day temperatures are high.

During my (many) interactions with SA's and SM's they were very particular about the quality of fuel to be used. The SM said, if small dust goes to your injector and that may cause failure of that particular cylinder and will not cover under warranty.
I asked them to suggest/recommend the best fuel pumps in each cities.

It is always better to stick to one good fuel pump (i prefer IOCL) and also never allow the quantity below 5 litres. This may help to rule out the fuel issues.

These critical electronics should have backups to prevent critical failures which would lead to cost increase.
Ford India has to take this seriously and sort out as this poses danger to life.
This forum is read by many top people in Ford and need to get into the problem.
Ford has to support even if there are replacements need to be done like Fuel pumps (may cost around 25k), injectors, sensors etc. Ford should not wait till the issue is reported to SC's which they are doing till now.

Wait for more updates from other Figo owners.

Last edited by RGK : 20th March 2011 at 18:39.
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Old 20th March 2011, 18:57   #130
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Took the car for a 12 Km spin inside the city. There was no stalling on deceleration at any point. Tried the usual scenarios of occurrence but nothing as of now.

@sudhirbhan
It's not clear from your post if the clutch sensor has been replaced or just adjusted. Since you said few others got the issue resolved by replacing the clutch sensor kindly insist the A.S.S to do the same on your car as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
@ Jayded: If your speed sensor was having problems shouldn't it have affected your speedometer first??!!

PS: O.K here is the link. A faulty speed sensor 'could' throw out values for abnormally high speeds that would cause the ecu to cut off the fuel flow.

Seriously. You are going to be one lucky guy if you are able to sort out this issue. The reasons for such behaviour are too complex and varied.!!
There was nothing wrong with my speedo till date, it worked perfectly.
Also the line "abnormally high speed" gets me thinking, hmmm! I don't think I was doing "abnormal speeds" on any of the the 5 instances so far. May be after all the speed sensor is not the root cause and the car is just acting normal now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post
That is good news Jay, but Gemi is spot on, did you have any speedometer error ? Or issues with the speedometer acting funny?
Jay be careful don't let them make your figo into a guinea pig experimenting, replacing and fiddling around with unnecessary parts.

The service camp is being held at metro ford. I will be taking my figo for the second service. Just crossed 10,000KM today.
I will going to Metro ford on Wednesday or Thursday.

If you are in Bangalore and need some help feel free to give me a buzz.
Aye aye captain,

As mentioned earlier, there was no issue with my speedo, it was working fine all along. I too don't wish to make my car a project work for them, but unfortunately what can be done here? I've decided I'll give them 2-3 chances since it's an issue which they are not familiar with and I don't want to pressurize them too much which will do more harm than good for me since in our city, there is just this single dealer unlike in Bangalore where you luckily have other options.
Anyways they have told me in case this issue reappears, then they would get in touch with Ford directly and carry out the next troubleshooting steps. I don't believe them completely but it's a good thing to hear, that's all.

In case I would need any help, I'll get in touch with you when I'm there. I was planning to get my steering wheel wrapped in leather when I get there, but seems my Figo has some other ideas

@RGK
Welcome to the thread man, and glad to hear you have not faced any such issues.
As you have rightly said, the fuel might not be the culprit since I always use one of the most reputed pumps in the city. The issue has happened both at night and day time, so it's not a matter of temperature I believe

Last edited by jayded : 20th March 2011 at 19:04.
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Old 20th March 2011, 19:10   #131
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Guys I am glued to this thread.

I am on the verge of booking a Figo. Already discussed with Mustang regarding this. I thought Ford would have ironed out any issues because it is 1 year since the launch.

Q1 Do i need to wait for a little more?

Q2 If it is an issue with fuel quality will Super/Turbo Diesel help in any way?

Q3 Anybody tried disengaging the EGR valve permanently in Figo?
Ford has sold over 75000 Figos In India. One car developing a problem does not make it a bad car. It should not bother you. Go ahead and buy it by all means.
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Old 20th March 2011, 19:31   #132
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
Ford has sold over 75000 Figos In India. One car developing a problem does not make it a bad car. It should not bother you. Go ahead and buy it by all means.
The problem is not the no of cars developing this kind of critical problem and it is how soon this is rectified and builds up confidence. Will not be far off if approximately 7000 per month becomes three digits if Ford does not assure fast and accurate diagnosis and eradicate.

Everyone agrees Figo is a good VFM car, but very unfortunate to hear these kind of dangerous problems posing threat to life.
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Old 20th March 2011, 23:15   #133
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Thanks all,

I agree Figo is VFM, that is the main reason i shortlisted it over Punto/Vista & Co. I want VFM + some more VFM.

I honestly don't really care if Ford sold 75K or 7.5L Figos.

I just cannot mentally cope up with such incidents in my new car after shelling out around 6 lakhs in cash. (Since banks are not ready to finance my car)

I feel that this will not be an isolated issue. There maybe many Figo drivers having the same problem but are either automotively challenged to notice it or just thought they have not adjusted to the new car.
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Old 20th March 2011, 23:49   #134
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Car has done 80 kms so far after the Speed Sensor replacement earlier today and has not shown any misbehavior yet.

Will call up the S.A. in the morning and check if there is anything additional to be done/checked with the car since the car hasn't broken down after the replacement. Only if he insists will I be taking it to the A.S.S. since it's around 10 kms from my place and don't want to go there unnecessarily.

Will be driving it for around 35 kms to work and back anyways. Will see how it goes and report in case of any issues. Cheers!
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Old 21st March 2011, 08:10   #135
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Default re: Figo TDCi: Dies occasionally while downshifting! Solved: Updated firmware by Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Thanks all,

I agree Figo is VFM, that is the main reason i shortlisted it over Punto/Vista & Co. I want VFM + some more VFM.

I feel that this will not be an isolated issue. There maybe many Figo drivers having the same problem but are either automotively challenged to notice it or just thought they have not adjusted to the new car.
Well if its VFM+ some more VFM i think you should be looking at the Vista. TATA is better known for the VFM thingy!

ABout others having the issue. Well..it seems like it might not just be confined to Figo Drivers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Car has done 80 kms so far after the Speed Sensor replacement earlier today and has not shown any misbehavior yet.
Hope it continues to not misbehave. Do you use the highway often. There is this COCO BP pump after thonakkal. I try to fill from there when ever i get an opportunity. Infact I had my last two fills from there (just before and after 20K service) and the engine was as smooth as butter. I;m not sure if its because of the 20K service. But it was so smooth that i called up the SE and asked if they had changed anything in my car!!!

This time i went back to the Reliance pump and its things are almost back to normal.
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