Diff between Speed diesel, Xtra premium diesel and regular diesel - Page 6 - Team-BHP

mmmjgm · 13th June 2008, 21:19

Hi All,

In a high pressure common rail diesel engine there are multiple injections at 1600 bar.

Now the question of anti clogging agents in the diesel does not arise, as at this pressure levels there is nothing left to clog. Off topic but relevant - never ever attempt to dissassemble your FIP or common rail (pipe like thing connecting your injectors) as this contains diesel under very high pressure.

The pressure levels in the injectors is enough to keep the injectors clean and with multiple injection cycles - pre pilot, pilot, and main injection cycles in a CRDI diesel engine its automatically kept clean.

Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in.

Small example - regular diesel (chemical composition 99.99% diesel).
Additive mixed diesel (97.99% diesel 2 % additives etc).

Also premium diesel users - how do you know without a knock sensor the engine runs smoother ? Is there a different frequency to the combustion cycle. As far as I know diesel is burnt due to high compression and the fuel explodes due to the compression created within the cylinder at nearby TDC.

Last but not the least, had an indica which suffered premature FIP failure (BSII - non dicor) indirect injection type due to usage of only premium fuels and diesel additives. FIP failed at 80k kilometers. Cost for new FIP - 22k + labour and caliberation of injectors.

Premature failure means that the seals within the FIP fail to adequately prevent extra diesel from flowing past, this generally happens due to a sustained chemical imbalance in the fuel. The BS II (indirect injection ) pumps were made without the idea of extra elements present in the fuel.

Innova within the family - 1.6 lakh kilometers covered, no problems so far, use regular diesel also poor quality diesel due to travel in rural areas. However this is a CRDi model engine.

What's the advantage ? To the fuel companies and the dealer, dealer gets a rupee per litre of premium diesel sold. Fuel companies get extra revenue from premium diesel sales. Cover their advertisement costs etc etc.

IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason.

Hope the gyan helps.

Cheers

MMM

kikuma25 · 14th June 2008, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

Interesting to know and did it reduce the clatter ??

No, the clatter has progressive become worse. Conclusion: The clatter has nothing to do with diesel quality or type.

dadu · 17th June 2008, 13:18

No car manufacturer in India Officially states "Not to use premium".

They state the "IS standards" which both the fuel's meet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason.

I also realized that a lot of info you posted is a misconception based on just generic logic, inlcuding below. The Cetane number is also defined as per the IS standards in the fuel policy and these Oil companies meet them.

The engine also has knock and Oxygen sensors to regulate the timings and I am talking about the CRDI engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in.

The "gyan" you have posted is definitely not correct and is an "Agyan"

mmmjgm · 17th June 2008, 16:54

Dadu,

I do not agree to the above being called agyaan, if you have a litre of diesel both regular and premium, you will have an additional quantity of additives over and above regular diesel present in the premium. This is a proven fact, as well as being dealers for a petroleum PSU major we have the literature from the manufacturer.

Secondly, no one is stating there is an official statement against the use of premium diesels.

Third and the most important, 3 auto dealers, one of which are family state that there has been a gradual deterioration of seals present in fuel injection pumps (BS II and older). These seals regulate the flow of diesel within the pump and into the injectors.

My question was, how does one rationalise by numbers whether the engine runs smoother or rough ?

My earlier post was in terms of the following

1) usage of premium fuels in my personal cars. How did the indica suffer premature failure.
2) Dealer's information shared on the use of premium fuels - service histories.
3) Historic sales data and our regular customers switching over to regular diesel after using premium fuels for a long time.

The last point is pertinent as we stand to loose business and customers as the complain of bad fuel quality sold to them.

PM me if you wish, I can share the facts. There is always the debate that non CRDi would sustain premium diesel usage.

cheers

MMM

mac_guy555 · 6th August 2008, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodeo

I find myself odd person out.My experience is completely different. I have been using HiSpeed but find no difference in smoothness. Infact i feel my FE has gone down. My car gives best FE with BP regular diesel...

Hi everyone, being a car lover like you all I notice even the minutest changes in my car's running and performance.
I have been using HP TurboJet for 9K kms. from a company pump and one fine day I went to fill 'er up and there was no stock of TurboJet. So I just had my Verna Diesel tank up with regular and voila

I see a performance change in the running and the mileage increased in city running to 14.45 from a measly 13.25 - 13.5 in city.

Think its just simply wiser to fill regular diesel from a company pump !!!

barcode · 7th August 2008, 19:49

With a 900km Old Verna these are the following things I noticed trying BP Premium Diesel (HiSpeed)...

No Difference in Mileage for me... But what I liked was that the fact that I could slot the Car into 4th gear at around 50-55kms which I couldn't do with normal petrol. I think the pic-up improves and there is a little extra power generated at lower RPM... I could be wrong, but thats what I felt.

One issue with premium diesel - I couldn't feel the turbo kicking in at 1700rpm as the car gathers lots of power by then and the "turbo feel" gets nullified.

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13th June 2008, 21:19	#76 (permalink)
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 60	Hi All, In a high pressure common rail diesel engine there are multiple injections at 1600 bar. Now the question of anti clogging agents in the diesel does not arise, as at this pressure levels there is nothing left to clog. Off topic but relevant - never ever attempt to dissassemble your FIP or common rail (pipe like thing connecting your injectors) as this contains diesel under very high pressure. The pressure levels in the injectors is enough to keep the injectors clean and with multiple injection cycles - pre pilot, pilot, and main injection cycles in a CRDI diesel engine its automatically kept clean. Secondly the anti clogging agents also take up volume, in essence you are getting lesser cetane bearing fuel as there are also these pre mixed chemicals coming in. Small example - regular diesel (chemical composition 99.99% diesel). Additive mixed diesel (97.99% diesel 2 % additives etc). Also premium diesel users - how do you know without a knock sensor the engine runs smoother ? Is there a different frequency to the combustion cycle. As far as I know diesel is burnt due to high compression and the fuel explodes due to the compression created within the cylinder at nearby TDC. Last but not the least, had an indica which suffered premature FIP failure (BSII - non dicor) indirect injection type due to usage of only premium fuels and diesel additives. FIP failed at 80k kilometers. Cost for new FIP - 22k + labour and caliberation of injectors. Premature failure means that the seals within the FIP fail to adequately prevent extra diesel from flowing past, this generally happens due to a sustained chemical imbalance in the fuel. The BS II (indirect injection ) pumps were made without the idea of extra elements present in the fuel. Innova within the family - 1.6 lakh kilometers covered, no problems so far, use regular diesel also poor quality diesel due to travel in rural areas. However this is a CRDi model engine. What's the advantage ? To the fuel companies and the dealer, dealer gets a rupee per litre of premium diesel sold. Fuel companies get extra revenue from premium diesel sales. Cover their advertisement costs etc etc. IF your car user's manual states do not use premium diesels, its for a reason. Hope the gyan helps. Cheers MMM

17th June 2008, 16:54	#79 (permalink)
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 60	Dadu, I do not agree to the above being called agyaan, if you have a litre of diesel both regular and premium, you will have an additional quantity of additives over and above regular diesel present in the premium. This is a proven fact, as well as being dealers for a petroleum PSU major we have the literature from the manufacturer. Secondly, no one is stating there is an official statement against the use of premium diesels. Third and the most important, 3 auto dealers, one of which are family state that there has been a gradual deterioration of seals present in fuel injection pumps (BS II and older). These seals regulate the flow of diesel within the pump and into the injectors. My question was, how does one rationalise by numbers whether the engine runs smoother or rough ? My earlier post was in terms of the following 1) usage of premium fuels in my personal cars. How did the indica suffer premature failure. 2) Dealer's information shared on the use of premium fuels - service histories. 3) Historic sales data and our regular customers switching over to regular diesel after using premium fuels for a long time. The last point is pertinent as we stand to loose business and customers as the complain of bad fuel quality sold to them. PM me if you wish, I can share the facts. There is always the debate that non CRDi would sustain premium diesel usage. cheers MMM

7th August 2008, 19:49	#81 (permalink)
barcode BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 68	With a 900km Old Verna these are the following things I noticed trying BP Premium Diesel (HiSpeed)... No Difference in Mileage for me... But what I liked was that the fact that I could slot the Car into 4th gear at around 50-55kms which I couldn't do with normal petrol. I think the pic-up improves and there is a little extra power generated at lower RPM... I could be wrong, but thats what I felt. One issue with premium diesel - I couldn't feel the turbo kicking in at 1700rpm as the car gathers lots of power by then and the "turbo feel" gets nullified.