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Old 23rd March 2011, 14:11   #1
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Default Crack in the Gearbox Housing in my Wagon R

While driving on some not so conducive roads in Himachal, I hit the under body onto a rock in the middle of the road. This has ended up in a crack in the gearbox housing. At present it is holding on with just one bolt. There are normally three.
What options do I have?
Do I need to change the housing?
Is aluminum welding a way out?
Do I need to change the complete gearbox?
Need help as I'm majorly confused.
What approximate costs are we looking at?

Would really appreciate all the help I can get?

rgds
Dr Pushpinder Singh
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Old 23rd March 2011, 14:57   #2
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Default Re: Crack in the Gearbox Housing in my Wagon R

Are you sure its the gear box housing and not just the mountings. I understand the mountings can be repaired.
If your vehicle is an old one and you don't want to claim insurance, I'm sure you can get an old gear box housing or the whole gearbox from the insurance second hand market.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 15:02   #3
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Default Re: Crack in the Gearbox Housing in my Wagon R

Thanks milecruncher...

The mechanic did tell me the housing has cracked and two of the nuts have come loose.
The idea of insurance second hand market sounds good...how does one go about finding someone to deal with.

Anyone in Delhi, would love to get some leads.

rgds
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Old 26th March 2011, 11:22   #4
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Default Re: Crack in the Gearbox Housing in my Wagon R

A picture would help us a lot in guiding you. Where exactly is the crack, is it the clutch housing or is it on the main GB body? Since you did not report losing oil i assume that its the clutch bell housing.

The GB can be welded. But is the aluminium welding suggested to you the regular oxyacetylene welding? If yes i'd suggest TIG welding instead of that, especially since the crack goes through couple of bolt holes.

If TIG welding is not an option try to source a used GB casing from the local used parts market. But make sure its not welded.
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Old 29th March 2011, 07:08   #5
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Default Re: Crack in the Gearbox Housing in my Wagon R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
A picture would help us a lot in guiding you. Where exactly is the crack, is it the clutch housing or is it on the main GB body? Since you did not report losing oil i assume that its the clutch bell housing.

The GB can be welded. But is the aluminium welding suggested to you the regular oxyacetylene welding? If yes i'd suggest TIG welding instead of that, especially since the crack goes through couple of bolt holes.

If TIG welding is not an option try to source a used GB casing from the local used parts market. But make sure its not welded.
Thanks Shankar.. Have shown it to a few experts and have been suggested to go for TIG welding. Will be getting that done in a day or two. Will share the results thereafter. rgds
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Old 9th August 2014, 23:48   #6
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Default Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Everyone

I was driving my Ford Figo TDCI late evening yesterday behind a bus on a damaged road (Metor work going on) when I found a vertical brick-shaped stone. I couldn't avoid it and it hit the underside. The speed was not very much, but I might have been in as high as 3rd gear; 4th is also possible but chances of that are less - I don't remember which gear it was not.

In the confusion instead of hiting the breaks I might have also hit the accelerator.


Anyway, later I found the gear shifts a little harder; I drove slowly and other gear shifts are ok but 4th is requiring a little effort to engage and even more to disengage - other gears are as smooth as they always were.

Also in Figo when you engage the gears they feel like "slotting in" - they go in with some effort and then sit there snugly. The 4th gear is now feeling more gradual, it goes in with a continuous effort never giving a feeling of "slotting in. While disengaging also I have to apply some force, it feels like glued in its place.


I drove cautiously back home and today took it to workshop.

There are several scratches on the underbody including on the gearbox consistent with hitting a hard stone. However they opened the front section (removed the plastic cover) to see any damage to shifter cable and there wasn't anything. They tuned it a little but there isn't much change. There seemed to be a little bit of oil leakage in one place on the gearbox but it was more a smudge than too much of leakage. In any case there were no drops or anything where the car was parked overnight.


This is what transpired next: they discussed something amongst themselves and next they told me the whole assembly needs to change and would cost 22000. I asked them to explain to me why - then they changed their tune saying that there is no problem and asked me to observe for a week. They asked me to come back in a week if a leak develops or some other problem happens.

They told me it may they have lubricated the gear cable, but when I asked them why would it effect only the 4th gear they didn't have much of an answer (except a SA I know there said that usually the 3rd and 4th gear give trouble, not the others)

I looked at some more websites and blogs (very few are there) and it seems that two possibilities are:

1. the gear shifting fork in bent/damaged
2. perhaps engine mounts are damaged causing some fork angles to change and causing hard-shifting


My questions are:

1. Is it going to merely an annoyance or is it the beginning of something seriously wrong (e.g. dog-collar not fully engaging)?
2. Is it possible to inspect the forks without opening the gearbox completely?
3. If the gearbox must be opened - how risky is that?
4. How advisable is it to get this checked at a third paty garage - also any recommendations for garage in Hyderabad?
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Old 10th August 2014, 00:44   #7
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Get your clutch re adjusted for free-pedal play and check whether it makes any difference.

I do not see any co-relation between you hitting the stone and only fourth gear shift feel change.

The symptom of a continuous effort required to engage a gear and the gear movement happening slowly is a sign of Syncrhonizer wear. At least in my vehicle it was showing the same sign.

You need to re-check the Gear lever shifter assembly, the cable, the gearbox mounting points. Re -adjust the Gearbox shift lever settings and please check again.

A synchronizer replacement should not cost you much( approx 5-7k everything included) and no need to spend 22k.
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Old 10th August 2014, 00:49   #8
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 View Post
Get your clutch re adjusted for free-pedal play and check whether it makes any difference.

I do not see any co-relation between you hitting the stone and only fourth gear shift feel change.

The symptom of a continuous effort required to engage a gear and the gear movement happening slowly is a sign of Syncrhonizer wear. At least in my vehicle it was showing the same sign.

You need to re-check the Gear lever shifter assembly, the cable, the gearbox mounting points. Re -adjust the Gearbox shift lever settings and please check again.

A synchronizer replacement should not cost you much( approx 5-7k everything included) and no need to spend 22k.

To replace the synchronizer wouldn't they have to open up the gearbox?

Also this happened suddenly; just minutes before the said stone-hitting everything was normal. Of course it is possible that in the ensuing chaos I might have tried to engage/disengage without proper clutching and that may have caused some damage.

Also wouldn't clutch damage then show up in all gears? all other gears are working fine, the trouble is only is neutral -> 4th and back (Even in standing car with engine not running, even with repeated shifts)
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Old 10th August 2014, 15:21   #9
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Quote:
To replace the synchronizer wouldn't they have to open up the gearbox?
Yes they will have to.

Quote:
Also wouldn't clutch damage then show up in all gears?
Yes you are right, it should show in all gears but just get the clutch pedal set again as per the factory recommendations. Its always better to rule the clutch pedal free play out as in my case it damaged the synchronizer. I am yet to replace it and will continue till it really becomes troublesome. As of now I can live with it and is not much a pain.

Clutch problems are first seen in 1st, 2nd and Reverse gears and its effects are later on felt on other gears.

Quote:
the trouble is only is neutral -> 4th and back (Even in standing car with engine not running, even with repeated shifts)
I think I stand corrected, this is a clear sign of not the syncrhonizer problem but a problem related to shift linkages, cable adjustment or something is bent in the linkages which are outside the gearbox.
The fork in the Gearbox which shifts the synchronizer cannot get bent by a stone hitting the gearbox.
If the above things are checked and all is found well then only I would say the fork or synchronizer has a problem.
A synchronizer problem wouldnot crop up suddenly. It gets worse and worse over the time and there are tell-tale signs of it before the actual damage occurs.
The last thought could be that you didnot press the clutch and forced the shift lever in 4th causing instantaneous syncrhonizer damage. But this is the last thing to happen and suggest you to checkout other things prior to opening the gearbox.

Syncrhonizer wear should occur only after minimum 80-100k kms. Syncrhonizers can get damaged early if we do not press the clutch while shifting and there is a clashing sound.

Prefer to go to a FNH Garage and sort the other things first before you open the gearbox. I have the same problem for my first gear in a 21k run Vista. It would take some time before it engages and the shifts take some time to happen. A wrongly adjusted clutch pedal freeplay and I think the Design/Parts not conforming to tolerances are to blame. I am yet to open the Gearbox but was quoted 5-7k charges for replacing just the synchronizer.

22k is just too much money to spend for a gearbox fault of this level. First check the linkages,cables mounting of the gearbox and any alignment issues then only think of opening the gearbox. Do not trust just the ASS blindly sometimes they are in money minting mode

Regards,
Amit
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Old 10th August 2014, 18:01   #10
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 View Post
.... Do not trust just the ASS blindly sometimes they are in money minting mode

Regards,
Amit

It is not merely a money-minting problem; I find the bigger problem is incompetence more often than not.

Anyway, I kept a look out of dripping leaks - nothing on the floor in the parking after 12 hours so the damage didn't cause much of a leak.

The external damage is of the scratch variety - there is no obvious dent (though a few thin fin like structures on the outer side are damaged).

A few websites have written about checking the engine/gearbox mounts, I shall do that today (working day for me due to a release). If that is the problem (perhaps root cause of this one, perhaps a problem on its own), then I shall get that one fixed too.

Other than that I'm thinking of taking the car to some third party garage folks (just for diagnosis and second opinion); Hyderabadi BHPians may kindly suggest somebody, I'm near Kukatpally and on the next weekend can go anywhere in Hyderabad.

Also I took it to Vibrant Ford Balanagar, if some other service center has better staff (Sanath Nagar doesn't - they share their staff) then kindly recommend that too; though I am guessing it may not be very useful.
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Old 10th August 2014, 19:25   #11
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

In Figo, to engage 3rd and 4th gear, only the shifter cable operates and the Selector cable doesn't move.

To check if the problem is externally or internally related :-
1.Remove the plastic cover and the shifter cable from the transmission side.
Let the selector cable be in place.
2.Move the shifter on the transmission "by hand".



If the shifter moves and the gear slots easily then the problem is either with the shifter cable or the gear lever, both of which can be replaced/repaired easily.

If the shifter doesn't move easily to 4th gear then gearbox has to be removed and selector mechanism be inspected.

Take the help of a FNG mechanic and let me know what you find.

Last edited by interc00led : 10th August 2014 at 19:27.
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Old 10th August 2014, 19:46   #12
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
In Figo, to engage 3rd and 4th gear, only the shifter cable operates and the Selector cable doesn't move.

To check if the problem is externally or internally related :-
1.Remove the plastic cover and the shifter cable from the transmission side.
Let the selector cable be in place.
2.Move the shifter on the transmission "by hand".



If the shifter moves and the gear slots easily then the problem is either with the shifter cable or the gear lever, both of which can be replaced/repaired easily.

If the shifter doesn't move easily to 4th gear then gearbox has to be removed and selector mechanism be inspected.

Take the help of a FNG mechanic and let me know what you find.

3rd gear is engaging/disengaging like it used to, if there is a difference it is not perceptible.

I don't know any mechanics here, if you can recommend somebody that will be great. I shall also try to find.

By the way, at the Balanagar shop one of these guys had done something similar (I guess); he removed the cover and pushed and pulled one cable by hand - there was only one visible with some sort of adjustment nut present. Of course he didn't tell me what he was doing except saying that "he was tuning the cable".

Last edited by vina : 10th August 2014 at 19:54.
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Old 10th August 2014, 20:37   #13
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Default Re: Ford Gearbox 4th gear problematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
3rd gear is engaging/disengaging like it used to, if there is a difference it is not perceptible.
I don't know any mechanics here, if you can recommend somebody that will be great. I shall also try to find.
By the way, at the Balanagar shop one of these guys had done something similar (I guess); he removed the cover and pushed and pulled one cable by hand - there was only one visible with some sort of adjustment nut present. Of course he didn't tell me what he was doing except saying that "he was tuning the cable".
Ask that mechanic to remove the other cable(which doesn't have adjustment nut) and turn the shaft by hand to check if the problem is externally related or not.

For some reason the picture I uploaded in my last post is not visible so I am uploading it again.
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