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Old 2nd November 2014, 05:31   #466
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At which position should the assisters be fitted to make the suspension most stiff. Towards the lower end or towards the upper end?
Have a Vento and recently installed these on rear suspension to reduce the rear pitching on the car, the rear is a touch too soft and the rear end bounces on undulations. Have installed these towards middle and they have vastly helped but want to make it more stiff.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 09:29   #467
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspensio

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At which position should the assisters be fitted to make the suspension most stiff. Towards the lower end or towards the upper end?
Hardly matters, since you essentially try and progressive disable one loop. Make sure you do both side the same.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 09:48   #468
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At which position should the assisters be fitted to make the suspension most stiff. Towards the lower end or towards the upper end?
The standard installation is to insert the assisters with one free coil below. Stiffness can be adjusted by moving the open ends towards or away from the engine. If you mive the ends away, you can make your ride stiffer. Normally the front end have assisters facing towards the engine and on the rear end it would be facing away.
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Old 6th May 2015, 17:36   #469
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

Just got my set of 4 autorunners fitted today, on my Chevrolet Spark LS LPG (2010).
Total Cost : Rs 4500
Garage: Automech (Lower Parel, Mumbai)
Size: Front B4 (2" thick) Rear B2 (1" thick)

Darryl initially suggested that i do not opt for the autorunners since it will make the ride very harsh due to the low weight of the spark, and the autorunners are intended for heavier cars. But i went ahead with it. My front struts were getting weaker and my service adviser at Chevrolet suggested that the front shock absorbers, front mounting, front bearings, front low arm and front balance rod to be replaced , during my 4.5th year routine service on 16th april 2015. I wasn't convinced since my car had run 20k km in all these years and i started my search for stiffer dampers to improve the ride quality, increase ride height and reduce the 'softness' of the suspension. I stumbled upon this thread by GTO and found the coil spring adjusters worth a try although many would be of the opinion that the autorunners shouldn't be installed on a weak suspension.

The initial experience after installing them is that the car rides higher off the ground (the car has gained an approximate height of 2cm or 20mm overall) while the ground clearance being the same at/around 160mm which i tried to measure at the lowest point. This is my solo drive back home after fitment. Will be later trying out how it feels when the car is loaded and check it on longer trips.
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Old 6th May 2015, 21:35   #470
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Default Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspe...

If you are happy with it good for you. However, Please note that dampers have a completely different function from the springs. You cant really fix a damper problem by fiddling with the springs. If I read the advise from your service advisor he advised to replace just about everything, except the springs!

Your car hasn't done much mileage at all, but Indian roads what they are can be very hard on suspension. Rule of thumb on most suspension is that the damper or shock absorber, bearings etc tend to wear out long before the springs do. i have replaced dozens and dozens of suspension components over the years, but remarkably few springs. Ive come across the odd broken spring, and the odd worn spring on old, classic cars.

Maybe it works out differently for India. Cars. But if you have suspension problems, not related to the springs, you cant fix it by fiddling with the springs I would think. A shock absorber not working can t be fixed other then repairing or replacing the absorber. Making the spring stiffer, might give you the illusion the problem is fixed, but Your wheel will still be bouncing.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 6th May 2015 at 21:38.
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Old 6th May 2015, 23:54   #471
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

A few reasons why i didn't consider the stock replacement-

1. I had read about persistent spark suspension issues and didn't want to do the stock replacement. Chevrolet parts being expensive, even for the spark, i considered looking elsewhere/aftermarket for the suspension parts, after receiving a quote of 10.5k plus tax.
2. I really liked the idea of the coil spring adjusters as it was being used for cars like the civic, honda city, verna etc which had already seen a decent life on the original suspensions and were used just to get rid of major problems - ground clearance and bottoming out under load. So, perhaps it can be assumed that the coil spring adjusters are actually a way to gain more from your existing setup, which is getting weaker.
We have tried to overcome the bottoming out problem in our Esteem Vx (1998) by putting huge 1-2" rubber mounts around 10-12 years back and it solved the problem of bottoming out.
3. The fact that the installation of the adjusters can be reversed, made me take the chance of experiencing them. If they work out well and can extend my current suspension to last me a couple of more years, the purpose is served. If it doesn't work out, i have no other way but to get a stiffer aftermarket suspension setup done.
4. The McPherson Strut being a coil spring encompassing the shock absorber arrangement; through the use of the coil spring adjuster; gave me a way to atleast partially relieve the weight on the weaker shock absorber and in turn transfer it to the spring via the coil spring adjuster. This concept may be totally false/untrue/mechanically incorrect but i wanted to give it a try.
5. The coil spring adjusters are not intended to improve the ride quality and several members have experienced the same. However, majority of the members have used it on sedans or bigger hatchbacks which weigh more than the spark. This again made me try the adjusters with a small 'possibility' of having a change in the ride quality since the spark is lighter and it 'may' make the overall ride harsh/stiffer, which i wanted. Again my perception. May not be correct.

So to sum it up, i wanted to 'kill two birds with one stone' by using the coil spring adjusters as i could see an all-in-one solution of increased ride height, stiffer suspension and better ride, instead of making multiple changes to the suspension by changing different parts.
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Old 7th May 2015, 00:51   #472
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamliner17 View Post
A few reasons why i didn't consider the stock replacement-

1. I had read about persistent spark suspension issues and didn't want to do the stock replacement. Chevrolet parts being expensive, even for the spark, i considered looking elsewhere/aftermarket for the suspension parts, after receiving a quote of 10.5k plus tax.
2. I really liked the idea of the coil spring adjusters as it was being used for cars like the civic, honda city, verna etc which had already seen a decent life on the original suspensions and were used just to get rid of major problems - ground clearance and bottoming out under load. So, perhaps it can be assumed that the coil spring adjusters are actually a way to gain more from your existing setup, which is getting weaker.
We have tried to overcome the bottoming out problem in our Esteem Vx (1998) by putting huge 1-2" rubber mounts around 10-12 years back and it solved the problem of bottoming out.
3. The fact that the installation of the adjusters can be reversed, made me take the chance of experiencing them. If they work out well and can extend my current suspension to last me a couple of more years, the purpose is served. If it doesn't work out, i have no other way but to get a stiffer aftermarket suspension setup done.
4. The McPherson Strut being a coil spring encompassing the shock absorber arrangement; through the use of the coil spring adjuster; gave me a way to atleast partially relieve the weight on the weaker shock absorber and in turn transfer it to the spring via the coil spring adjuster. This concept may be totally false/untrue/mechanically incorrect but i wanted to give it a try.
5. The coil spring adjusters are not intended to improve the ride quality and several members have experienced the same. However, majority of the members have used it on sedans or bigger hatchbacks which weigh more than the spark. This again made me try the adjusters with a small 'possibility' of having a change in the ride quality since the spark is lighter and it 'may' make the overall ride harsh/stiffer, which i wanted. Again my perception. May not be correct.

So to sum it up, i wanted to 'kill two birds with one stone' by using the coil spring adjusters as i could see an all-in-one solution of increased ride height, stiffer suspension and better ride, instead of making multiple changes to the suspension by changing different parts.
"Front Shock Absorbers, front mounting, front bearings, front low arm and front balance rod to be replaced"

These are the things that you mentioned in your last to last post that need a change according to your service adviser.

Do the front shock absorber need changing because they are leaking ? If they are leaking a little, yes it will be a few months before all of the oil leaks out from the strut and your car starts to handle like a boat. The Coil Spring Adjuster won't save you from this at all.

The Front Mounting needs a change when it no longer can hold the strut in its place on the apron. A 'Kat kat' clanky noise starts. This will have to be changed with or without the coil spring adjuster in its place.

Front bearings, you mean strut bearings or wheel bearings ? Either way, these need a changing if they are finished.

Balance rod and lower arm too, can't get away with not changing them.

Basically all I am saying is, ask the service adviser, why these changes ? Is the Strut leaking ? Is the strut mount gone ? are the lower arms bent or the lower arm bushes gone/torn? Does the balance rod have a play or makes a kat kat noise ?

I am planning to get these too for the rear end of my Swift as with a full load the rear end does go down quite a bit (natural tendency) and I don't like the taking off look the car has then. Fronts I won't get because my car has a very hard front suspension anyway, anymore and I will not have a spinal cord anymore.
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Old 7th May 2015, 09:15   #473
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamliner17 View Post
4. The McPherson Strut being a coil spring encompassing the shock absorber arrangement; through the use of the coil spring adjuster; gave me a way to atleast partially relieve the weight on the weaker shock absorber and in turn transfer it to the spring via the coil spring adjuster. This concept may be totally false/untrue/mechanically incorrect but i wanted to give it a try.
5. The coil spring adjusters are not intended to improve the ride quality and several members have experienced the same. However, majority of the members have used it on sedans or bigger hatchbacks which weigh more than the spark. This again made me try the adjusters with a small 'possibility' of having a change in the ride quality since the spark is lighter and it 'may' make the overall ride harsh/stiffer, which i wanted. Again my perception. May not be correct.

So to sum it up, i wanted to 'kill two birds with one stone' by using the coil spring adjusters as i could see an all-in-one solution of increased ride height, stiffer suspension and better ride, instead of making multiple changes to the suspension by changing different parts.
A few comments in line to my earlier comments; the shock absorbers dont carry the weight of the car as such, the springs do! When you work on the suspension the most important thing you need to bear in mind, what does it do to the road holding capabilities, that's not the same as a better ride at all. Just because its stiffer, doesn't mean the tyres have better road contact. That is all down to the shock absorbers and how they dampen the spring action.

Jeroen
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Old 7th May 2015, 12:25   #474
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

Thank you for the reply humyum!
Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Basically all I am saying is, ask the service adviser, why these changes ?
I have not observed any of the symptoms that you have mentioned for any of the shock absorbers (No leaks), mounting (no kat-kat noise or clanky noise or sudden thuds), strut/wheel bearing (no grinding noise or clanky noise), balance rod/lower arm (no visual signs of bending, no steering alignment issues either). The car used to run perfectly without any kind of niggles before installing the adjusters. The only thing i noticed was that the car was 'sitting' lower than usual at the front and i pointed this out to the service advisor during the service in april. He didn't even notice this and he checked this only when i told it to him. He then put his fingers inside the wheel arch (to check the vertical distance between the tyre and the wheel arch) in my spark and then into another parked spark at the service center and told me that the gap in my car (between the tyre and wheel arch) seems to be reduced and he will check the front suspension during the service. He calls me the next day to ask for permission to go ahead with the above mentioned parts replacement and i decline it. He says that the struts are getting weaker. I asked if its an emergency and it needs replacement immediately, to which he answers, that its nothing urgent and the struts wont break or anything (These were his words).


Thank you for the replies Jeroen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
When you work on the suspension the most important thing you need to bear in mind, what does it do to the road holding capabilities, that's not the same as a better ride at all. Just because its stiffer, doesn't mean the tyres have better road contact. That is all down to the shock absorbers and how they dampen the spring action.
Very true. I'll keep this is in mind

Last edited by dreamliner17 : 7th May 2015 at 12:30. Reason: typo errors
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Old 9th May 2015, 16:21   #475
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Default Re: Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?

So I increased the height of my 2009 ANHC which has run 55k. Did not use Auto runners.
Instead, got this done from the friendly neighborhood garage but only for the rear suspension.

Height of wheel arch before change: 25.5 inches.
After change: 26.75 inches.
Net increase in height is 1.25 inches.

Driven only 5 km after the mod and not much to test. Crossed two small speed breakers and noticed some difference but it may be psychological.
Will so at full load soon and report back.

Last edited by @Chaand : 9th May 2015 at 16:23.
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Old 12th May 2015, 15:57   #476
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Default Urethane suspension inserts

Dear All,
I came across an advert in this month's Autocar. The advertisers name was 'Indisuspension' and the product on offer was a urethane suspension insert for the coil springs.
To give a bit of background, I have a Scorpio mhawk, 2011 Vlx. As the forum is aware the suspension the Scorpio is not exactly sorted and has a 'jiggly' feel to it unless the car has atleast 5 people and luggage inside it. So naturally my curiosity was piqued. I went on their website and read claims about better handling, increased ground clearance, better suspension wear etc.
You tube also has a fair amount of videos on offer for testing these urethane suspension inserts.
I am tempted to order these, however, need advice from the forum on the following:
1. The suspension of any car no matter the 'jiggly' outcome undergoes thorough testing and fine tuning by the manufacturer. Is it advisable to make changes to the setup although temporary or reversible in the pursuit of better ride?
2. Has anybody from team bhp has had these inserts installed and what has been their experience?
Thanks in advance for all your answers.
Regards,
Harsh.
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Old 5th August 2015, 16:04   #477
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Default Increasing Ground Clearance of Honda Amaze by 55mm ~ 70mm using this.. Possible?

Hi guys,

Was searching the internet on increasing my Honda Amaze's GC. Came across this product at one of the websites. This is on offer of Rs. 2500/-. Is it worth? Attaching pics for your kind reference.

Personally, I dont think that kind of amount is justified for (mere) 2 Rubber (?) joints.

Any pointers please?

Mods: I searched for a similar thread, but to no avail. Please merge in case something similar exists. Many thanks!
Attached Images
      

Last edited by panky12345 : 5th August 2015 at 16:07.
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Old 5th August 2015, 16:26   #478
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Default Re: Increasing Ground Clearance of Honda Amaze by 55mm ~ 70mm using this.. Possible?

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Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post

Personally, I dont think that kind of amount is justified for (mere) 2 Rubber (?) joints.

Any pointers please?
Please refer this thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-set-rims.html (Maruti Ritz: My wheel & tyre upgrades - settled down after 4th set of rims)

The OP mentions loss of control and handling after installing such spacers.

Quote:
UPDATE #2:

Tyres only: Ceat Milaze, Size: 185/70R14 (made in India)

At ~55000kms, all four tyres were replaced by the same Ceat Milaze tyres but this time ones were made in India.
Reason for opting for same tyres: I was on my Thailand trip and back in India my father went to same tyre dealer for wheel alignment and balancing. Tyres were due for replacement. Both dealer and my father felt necessity to replace tyres as just ~25% of tread was left. This time again he suggested same tyres describing same damage warranty thing to my father. When I came back after my trip, I was sad to see same Ceat tyres as this time I wanted to go for better tyres. But nothing could be done at this point of time, so I was OKish with it and anyways, any new tyre is good in its own.

Big Problem & its solution:

Problem: The day I got these Plati alloy wheels fitted, few problems arose.
Problem #1. On high speed highway drives, rear tyre started scraping with wheel arches when car fully loaded with five passengers. This made very weird and annoying khhachh-khhachh noises, disturbing & ruining whole driving experience. The fear of tyre burst was even more disturbing, forcing to drive at slow speeds.
Problem #2. Tyres were bulging out too much of my liking, gave the car SUVish kind of look which I never wanted.
Again the whole problematic credit goes to that unplanned alloy wheels and tyres installation detailed in UPDATE #1.

Solutions: Since the alloy wheels installation in 2009, I was finding a solution for above problem.
Solution #1: In 2013, our every time mechanic suggested my father a solution by increasing ground clearance. He replaced OEM rubber pads/spacers above rear coil springs of suspensions system with thicker ones. That change increased car's height from rear by ~0.8", front remaining the same since there was no tyre scraping from front. This change in rear suspension system changed the whole geometry of suspension system. Car started behaving differently, more inclined towards front. Already average handling became bad. Interesting thing was that even after increasing car height from rear, tyres kept on scraping on highway drives when fully loaded. So solution #1 didn't worked.
If things were so easy, why would car makers allocate R&D budgets?
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Old 5th August 2015, 16:27   #479
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Default Re: Increasing Ground Clearance of Honda Amaze by 55mm ~ 70mm using this.. Possible?

Personally I would avoid increasing the Car height by 55 to 70 mm (Amaze has 165mm & with this it would make it min 220mm ) which would completely change the driving dynamics of the car and would make it highly unstable. If your car is bottoming out, IMO there is something called as coil Spring adjusters which can be inserted in the current coils in 15 mins and cost about 2-3K for the rear and 4-5K for all 4 springs. Read more on this thread by GTO (Coil Spring Adjusters : VFM Fix for the Honda Civic's (lousy) soft rear suspension?)
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Old 5th August 2015, 17:11   #480
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Default Re: Increasing Ground Clearance of Honda Amaze by 55mm ~ 70mm using this.. Possible?

If I use this.. will the car still bottom out?

IMO, this resembles yesteryear's jugaad on M800 wherein it was a mod to get the height increased from rear.
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