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Old 20th April 2011, 20:20   #61
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

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Originally Posted by mmxylorider View Post
Gandhar - Can ARAI play any role in recommending what manufacturers should be providing as options (safety or safety associated features) on all trim levels?

Background to this thought is the fact that in most cases a buyer would have to purchase the highest trim to get ABS/Air bags. But he might not want power windows or MID or in-dash ICE.
The straightforward answer is "NO". ARAI cannot recommend how the manufacturer wants to provide options accross the trims.

That is customer oriented.

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
In my student days (which was a long-long time back), the Bajaj service centre where I used to take my motorbike for service had circles marked on a wall which were used to set headlight beams - a very simple solution to avoid the glare problem. There was a separate circle for each model since their heights would vary. I haven't seen that concept in operation in any of the car service stations that I have visted over the last decade and a half, including the so-called ISO-certifed ones, although cars have far more powerful beams. We really need to have compulsory standards for service stations too, with penalties/challans for every reported/observed breach.
Again, as I do not have proper knowledge about the actual service station standards, but AFAIK, they should have a check-list which would detail about headlight setting options. (If there is an adjustable option)

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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
I have a good one. How can you get a custom-made car registered, if there is such a provision?
This is where our legislation differs from European countries. In UK, you can have such a vehicle approved under the SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) scheme, which provides approval after safety checks which are non-destructive inspection tests. Most kit-cars (Custom made cars) are registered in this way.

In India, unfortunately, we do not have single vehicle approval scheme as then it would severely jeopardise safety. The thing to bear in mind is that in other countries, the custom made vehicle is much costlier than normal vehicles (corsas/fiestas/etc.) and only enthusiasts are interested who want to build them properly. However, in India, there might be a possibility, that this scheme if introduced would be mis-used to sell you cheap vehicles compromising safety standards and thus dangerous to other road users.

Needless to mention, the kit-cars you see in India are illegal (some forced to be due to lack of legal option, I must admit) as they are modified after registration on a pre-existing vehicle and the modifications are not entered in the RC book.

If a group of people are serious about kit-cars in India, we could have a consortium of these builders (they must have built them already, though) have a proper formal negotiation with the right contacts at ARAI who could then raise the point further up. But again, I would definitely say that what looks good aesthetically, need not be deemed safe. (eg. protruding parts, sharp edges on vehicle body panels, brake system robustness, steering column, electrical safety, fuel lines, etc.)

Gandhar.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 20:02   #62
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

@Gansbab - Wont it make better sense for ARAI to publish city/highway figures for the mileage instead of a single figure(that obviously has percentage of both).
In US thats how it is done and it makes for much clearer picture.

A Santro being rated at city/highway of 12/18 would cause lot less commotion than combined figure of say 16.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 22:46   #63
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

To begin with, i do sympathize with Gansbab for being bashed in this forum. ARAI has done a decent job of ensuring a minimal level of regulations.

As with any industry and regulatory body, there is a lot of lobbying against regulations that could increase the cost of the vehicles (such as Airbags, Security Systems etc...) although these would apply to the entire industry! A lot of the members on some of these panels are senior stakeholders/executives of various OEMs and for good reason, they have a conflict of interest. This has to change for more effective and 'timely' regulations.

Secondly, introducing regulations is only one side of the story. Enforcing them is quite another. Indians have this problem with every industry. Our weak point really is the enforcement. This, unfortunately, is not completely in ARAI's control. They have to rely on local policemen/ RTO agents for support. And the lesser said about this the better.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 12:03   #64
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

Hi Gansbab

a topic that always puzzles me, and just in one line...

Bullbar / Bumper Guard, are they legal??

Thanks
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Old 23rd April 2011, 12:30   #65
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

Yes they are ^^.

Bullbar- Related to Pedestrian safety (not yet enforced in India)
Bumper guard- Slow speed impact and External Projections (enforced in India)

Spike
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Old 23rd April 2011, 12:56   #66
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Yes they are ^^.

Bullbar- Related to Pedestrian safety (not yet enforced in India)
Bumper guard- Slow speed impact and External Projections (enforced in India)

Spike
I think the existing laws are still adequate to cover such things. For e.g. I remember the Motor Vehicle Act mandating that the vehicle's dimensions should not exceed those specified by the manufacturer. Fitting a bullbar on the front / rear will increase the permanent length of the vehicle above the manufacturer specifications, and so should be illegal by default. The same goes for extra-wide (balloon) tyres which some people want to fit their vehicles with. The extra-wide tyres (sometimes along with the suspension tinkering) increase the overall width of the vehicle and should be automatically illegal on public roads.

For e.g. every automobile is supposed to have at least one rear view mirror. How many two wheelers have even one mirror? Many I have seen have no mirrors at all. Many of those which have, have at least one mirror turned in a funny angle so the biker will never be able to use that mirror. None of these bikes are pulled up ever for lack of mirrors.

Regulations already exist to cover the use of bulbs. If you were to buy Phillips 90/100 bulbs in any shop today, you would find "Not for street use" printed on the boxes. Yet we have proud members declaring they changed the stock bulbs to 90/100 as soon as they have bought their vehicles.

So, along with a strong implementation of the existing rules, we must also make a commitment to ourselves and others of never indulging into such illegal practices.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 13:01   #67
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

Hi,

^^ I had mentioned the rules as applicable to the manufacturer, not to the road user.

Spike
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Old 23rd April 2011, 23:19   #68
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
I think the existing laws are still adequate to cover such things. For e.g. I remember the Motor Vehicle Act mandating that the vehicle's dimensions should not exceed those specified by the manufacturer. Fitting a bullbar on the front / rear will increase the permanent length of the vehicle above the manufacturer specifications, and so should be illegal by default. The same goes for extra-wide (balloon) tyres which some people want to fit their vehicles with. The extra-wide tyres (sometimes along with the suspension tinkering) increase the overall width of the vehicle and should be automatically illegal on public roads.

For e.g. every automobile is supposed to have at least one rear view mirror. How many two wheelers have even one mirror? Many I have seen have no mirrors at all. Many of those which have, have at least one mirror turned in a funny angle so the biker will never be able to use that mirror. None of these bikes are pulled up ever for lack of mirrors.

Regulations already exist to cover the use of bulbs. If you were to buy Phillips 90/100 bulbs in any shop today, you would find "Not for street use" printed on the boxes. Yet we have proud members declaring they changed the stock bulbs to 90/100 as soon as they have bought their vehicles.

So, along with a strong implementation of the existing rules, we must also make a commitment to ourselves and others of never indulging into such illegal practices.

Like i said, its the enforcement thats the problem...
But i believe things can change with better road infrastructure and awareness.

My bro once commented, and i agree with him... "why is it that Indians when travelling abroad follow all the rules while in India they choose to ignore?"

I think Team-BHP should change gears, move into the streets and build awareness. A mass movement led by a forum as large as Team-BHP can definitely bring some change for the better
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Old 23rd April 2011, 23:32   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hi,

^^ I had mentioned the rules as applicable to the manufacturer, not to the road user.

Spike
I did guess that you were tuned in onto homologation, but from the manufacturer's side

Nice to see you here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baluundertaker View Post
@Gansbab - Wont it make better sense for ARAI to publish city/highway figures for the mileage instead of a single figure(that obviously has percentage of both).
In US thats how it is done and it makes for much clearer picture.

A Santro being rated at city/highway of 12/18 would cause lot less commotion than combined figure of say 16.
The aim for the FE figure is to give a guideline on overall FE. But you are correct, for simplicity reasons, it could be that way. But again these values are meant to be for comparison between vehicles and not strictly the FE of the vehicle under normal driving conditions (which varies due to several factors).

Again looking at the bigger picture, it may happen that a particular engine / powertrain combination may be a poor performer in city conditions (not due to being a bad vehicle, mind you, but due to the overall configuration) but the highway performance would round it off to a respectable figure. Because these are figures without any mandatory limit requirements, the interests of the manufacturer's also need to be safeguarded.

Gandhar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bzr77k View Post
Like i said, its the enforcement thats the problem...
But i believe things can change with better road infrastructure and awareness.

My bro once commented, and i agree with him... "why is it that Indians when travelling abroad follow all the rules while in India they choose to ignore?"

I think Team-BHP should change gears, move into the streets and build awareness. A mass movement led by a forum as large as Team-BHP can definitely bring some change for the better
Very well said. You see it happen ever so often that the moment one returns to India, he routinely picks up the nasty habits which he has refrained whilst being abroad.

I think it would be a good idea for the stock T-BHP stickers to declare "I follow the rules!!!" or something equivalent which would

1) Mandate the conscience of the car driver to follow the rules, &
2) Atleast motivate 10-15% of the readers to follow suit.

What say, Mods? (Unless its already, there)

Gandhar

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 24th April 2011 at 00:00. Reason: posts merged. See note in post.
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Old 24th April 2011, 02:00   #70
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

I know many people who have worked with and are affiliated with ARAI. There are a few bright chaps in your organisation, but most are indifferent and lackadaisical.

ARAI does rigorously test all vehicles that need to be homologated -- but is limited to the road tests and recently, a few crash tests if I'm not mistaken.

However, ARAI is not very transparent about what it does. For any regulatory entity, they seldom publish, distribute and share knowledge with the end-consumers.

Rightly so, most people believe that ARAI is indifferent and I agree with many. A consumer-centric approach would have saved ARAI's reputation.
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Old 24th April 2011, 15:57   #71
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

Gansbab, thank you for taking out your valuable time and posting here. We need more people like you from government agencies to participate in discussion to improve and implement regulations.

Gansbab, can you do something about 3 wheeler diesel auto rickshaws?. They make too much loud noise while running and I actually have to change my house because of traffic noise and now I have promised myself, I will never ever buy house on road side in my life.

I used to live in house who's windows was on road side and where road is on slope (slope is small not that big). Many vehicles use to produce lots of sound while traveling on road due to steep road. However, diesel auto rickshaws was the one making most sound, engine sound use to be almost like gun machine firing when they used to cross near my house. My room window was nearly 30 ft. away from road then also sound used to be too much to wake me up in my closed room running split air conditioner. Its engine sound was more then passing by truck. For demonstration, give me few days and I will take some time and take its video and post it here in few days.

My immediate solution was to install window air conditioner which use to produce its own sound hence traffic sound used to get absorbed in its sound, however, it was not complete solution and after few days i got so fed up due to traffic noise, I decided to buy another house which cost me huge some of money.

Now, I am very happy after changing house, here there is no traffic sound. But why I have to change my house and go through so much trauma and pain just because manufacturers produce so much noisy vehicles. And, i am really lucky I am able to change house, how many people can actually buy house in this overpriced market?
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Old 25th April 2011, 12:47   #72
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

I agree with Max.

Not many people can afford the cost of buying a new house just to curb their ear drums being flabbergasted by some noisiest vehicles plying on roads.
Its the fall-out from norms and the illegal customisation of the engines, chasis, etc, etc.
ARAI has been and will be in the bad books for most of the time due to inconsistency for framing out the right output to consumers.

Hope ARAI has some solutions to all this. Thats just 'Hope'.
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Old 25th April 2011, 14:30   #73
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

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Originally Posted by bzr77k View Post
My bro once commented, and i agree with him... "why is it that Indians when travelling abroad follow all the rules while in India they choose to ignore?"
Having driven extensively in the US and UK, I believe this is a problem caused by lax enforcement and low fines. A strong enforcement team & prohibitive fines will compel citizens to follow rules.

There was a time when Indians never wore seatbelts even if they were fitted in the car. But once the cops started enforcing and fining drivers we began to wear seatbelts nearly without fail. I am aware there are some people who duck the rules and get by but by and large we have started wearing seat belts. I am waiting for the same vigour to be applied to helmets.
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Old 25th April 2011, 14:45   #74
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

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.....
I am waiting for the same vigour to be applied to helmets.
+1 something for High Beams too
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Old 27th April 2011, 11:12   #75
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Default Re: ARAI Bashers - Some clarifications from an ex-ARAI engineer

What about use of Xenon / bi Xenons (with bluish tint) on vehicles in India ?
Is it approved by ARAI ?

Asking this even though I know the answer, for benefit of others.
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