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Old 22nd April 2011, 17:13   #31
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

OT: Saw your the Red THAR whiz past on RB Road a little while back. He does look lovely!
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Old 22nd April 2011, 21:36   #32
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I cannot understand 2 fans when one cannot do the job as is done in most vehicles, is this some sort of an experiment that M&M is trying on a vehicle that has been sold already ?
Hope you have seen a factory instal of AC Vs the pictures, for egs the safari has double fan, check it out and then see the difference.

I fail to understand why M&M is still leaving fate of AC install to dealers. Cost should be the last things since the product is already priced hideously high.

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Originally Posted by karthik123 View Post
The AC as far as I know has no such complicated way to switch the fan on, it switches on as soon as the AC starts and switches off with the AC. No ECU, engine temperature etc is involved
Then its not the right way to do it, atleast for a modern ECU run diesel engine. Remember we all blame our road side AC technicians install jugaad, due to the same reason.

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And should the engine receive any compensation parameters ? if so how should we know that they have kept such parameters in place and is it harmful for the engine it they are not in place? at idle as soon as the AC is turned on there is a slight dip in the rpm but almost immediately comes back up
When AC is switched ON, lot of things are taken care by a typical ECU. Coolant temperature which determines Aux electric fan switching ON and off. Idle speed compensation for additional load that a AC compressor puts being the very basic of stuff. I understand there are much more complicated in real life, like fuel rail pressure?? Maybe experts can add more.

ECU controls all these, in a typical AC ready ECU it will already have all the required setting burned. Matter of plugging the connectors and components in to activate the circuit. For egs open a fuse box of Accent and you will see provision made for ABS etc. So parts are already designed keeping all these upgrade/options in mind. Now if the ECU codes are not programmed in, it needs to be flashed with a new code can be done using proper tools. ie If its a pukka ECU which has scope of an upgrade for AC. A scanner is used to check if all is well.

I strongly doubt all this for Thar.

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Originally Posted by karthik123 View Post
let me share with you the number of time the vehicle's radiator and liquids have been removed to get the job done
=======
5. it was working fine with one fan then slowly as climate temperature kept increasing it soon showed its signs of not being sufficient for the job so they had to remove everything again and put 2 fans on the same compressor and put everything back in again
Classic case of dealer trying experiments. And yes you are on dot, all these heating issues turn up during our summers.

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the sad part of this is all this has been done in a authorized automotive mahindra who should have had the knowledge and even sad is that it was done to a brand new vehicle the first 3 points given above were done even before the owner had driven it once
Welcome to the world of Indian dealerships!
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Old 22nd April 2011, 21:53   #33
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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I fail to understand why M&M is still leaving fate of AC install to dealers. Cost should be the last things since the product is already priced hideously high.
Then they would not be held responsible for the problems that A/C install in Thar which are bound to crop up, because of the nature of the Jugaad work involved.

Remarkable how cost is used as an excuse for everything. Very naive algebra used to explain poor design and execution.

From what I (mis?)understood from the "S.O.P.", the idler pulley is replaced by the compressor mount, right? Was the idler pulley originally the tensioning pulley? If so, is the compressor now on a sliding mount and used for tensioning?
@Karthik123
, please look in engine bay and correct me if I am wrong. Some pictures of the engine bay and A/C ducting would also help us all a lot, if you could.

Cheers.
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Old 24th April 2011, 01:08   #34
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Hope you have seen a factory instal of AC Vs the pictures, for egs the safari has double fan, check it out and then see the difference.
2 fans only for the AC condensor ? Could you name any other vehicle than the safari please ? Just to enlighten myself.
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Old 24th April 2011, 01:46   #35
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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2 fans only for the AC condensor ? Could you name any other vehicle than the safari please ? Just to enlighten myself.
IIRC Rahul Roy also had 2 fans fitted for the condenser on his Gurkha as the vehicle was overheating. You can check out his ownership thread.
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Old 24th April 2011, 01:57   #36
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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IIRC Rahul Roy also had 2 fans fitted for the condenser on his Gurkha as the vehicle was overheating. You can check out his ownership thread.
No, I was asking about stock vehicles with factory fitted ACs.
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:32   #37
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

guys, the issue is in the engine itself. the ECM has been adapted to this engine which is originally designed for another engine, by altering the torque curves and maps. Seems the perfection is lost in tuning. the cooling system has been copied from scorpio which doesn't come with any additional electric fan. just think why scorpio doesn't overheat inspite of having no additional fan.
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:43   #38
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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guys, the issue is in the engine itself. the ECM has been adapted to this engine which is originally designed for another engine, by altering the torque curves and maps.
NO! There is a similar model Bolero which runs AC with a similar setup.

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Seems the perfection is lost in tuning.
Spike

PS- Have you seen a Bolero Storm closely?
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:46   #39
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post

PS- Have you seen a Bolero Storm closely?
The storm engine and THAR engine are same??
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:50   #40
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

Haha, not the same, but similar . There are differences. Why?

Spike
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:55   #41
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Haha, not the same, but similar . There are differences. Why?

Spike
LOL, spike you have learnt the management lessons.
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Old 24th April 2011, 09:04   #42
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

OT- Yeah, at office I learn management lessons, remaining time I learn about Automobiles.

Spike
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:16   #43
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
guys, the issue is in the engine itself. the ECM has been adapted to this engine which is originally designed for another engine, by altering the torque curves and maps. Seems the perfection is lost in tuning. the cooling system has been copied from scorpio which doesn't come with any additional electric fan. just think why scorpio doesn't overheat inspite of having no additional fan.
If by additional fan you mean 2 fans for condenser, then yes the Scorpio (2.6CRDe as well as the mHaha variants) use only 1 fan for the condenser. For that matter of fact the Storm also uses 1 fan. But have you considered the gril area of THAR vis-a-vis the Scorp or the Bolero? Exposed surface to direct air flow is more than THAR in the both the above stated vehicle. And off hand looking at the picture, I would think that the FAN used in the THAR is smaller than the single fan used in Bolero /Scorp.

OT: Saar I understand that you are a Automobile Design professional. Don't let a Marketing guy like me teach you Automobile engineering . Believe me if that happens all the basic principles of Physics will get rewritten

Cheers
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:40   #44
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
If by additional fan you mean 2 fans for condenser, then yes the Scorpio (2.6CRDe as well as the mHaha variants) use only 1 fan for the condenser. For that matter of fact the Storm also uses 1 fan. But have you considered the gril area of THAR vis-a-vis the Scorp or the Bolero? Exposed surface to direct air flow is more than THAR in the both the above stated vehicle. And off hand looking at the picture, I would think that the FAN used in the THAR is smaller than the single fan used in Bolero /Scorp.

OT: Saar I understand that you are a Automobile Design professional. Don't let a Marketing guy like me teach you Automobile engineering . Believe me if that happens all the basic principles of Physics will get rewritten

Cheers
Saaar, since you said scorpio comes with condensor fan, can you please explain me how it is controlled? you explained me something which spike couldn't tell me the same. so its THAR grill which is the culprit.
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Old 24th April 2011, 11:50   #45
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Default Re: Thar A/C - Dealer Fitment, but issues persist.

@Ani There is one model which uses 2 fans for the condenser assembly.

@Star are you asking about 2 Fans ( 1 radiator , 1 condenser) or 2 fans for condenser only?

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 24th April 2011 at 11:51.
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