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Old 1st August 2011, 20:01   #106
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

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Originally Posted by NoMind View Post
I have talked on the phone to this owner of Manza who has extensively written about issues with left leaning issues. I was a little too shaken up by his ordeal to want to take a risk with this kind of Issue.
Most cars, barring the Japs have issues. It seems to be a bit higher in Tatas. If you go through the Vento threads, you'll find issues there as well. Could you please link the thread with left leaning issues, to be able to understand it better?

To me, one important aspect is how the senior officials of the company react to complaints.

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I talked to kropex in bangalore and sundaram motors has put up some numbers on their site.. Very strange but they quote an exshowroom price of 10 something and absolutely deny any price drops in the Optra.
Well the price drops aren't recent. The Ex-showroom of the LS in Delhi is about 8.46 and the LT is about 1L more. After that there are discounts are in the range of 25-30k or so. It has been on for months. If you want to research on the Optra, you should head to the sister thread of this one which has a lot of info on the Optra. Some people have shared the quotes they got. You could also call other showrooms to check.

PS: I have no idea of the OTR rates elsewhere. In Delhi it usually works out to about 1L over the Ex-Showroom for cars of about 10L.
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Old 1st August 2011, 20:56   #107
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

The author has reported this problem in gearheads forum and in the indica yahoo user group.
Here's the link:
http://goo.gl/LWpV5

He has driven many other new ones from a dealership and they all(according to him) display this behavior. It was so bizarre that I decided to cancel my booking.

Last edited by NoMind : 1st August 2011 at 20:57. Reason: link shortening
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Old 4th August 2011, 20:22   #108
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMind View Post
The author has reported this problem in gearheads forum and in the indica yahoo user group.
Here's the link:
Un-Solved - New Tata Manza pulls to the left over 30 times alignment checked, need solution.

He has driven many other new ones from a dealership and they all(according to him) display this behavior. It was so bizarre that I decided to cancel my booking.
I read that first few pages of that longish thread @NoMind. Doesn't feel good if there are issues with new cars. It does happen to most manufacturers. A bit more to some. Often, it is a matter of getting to the right person in the company to get things sorted out. With some companies, the process and their implementation is good enough that they take care of it.

Given the discomfort with Tata, the others to consider in a similar price segment are the Logan/Verito and Etios (diesel expected to be launched in September). There are many good stories of how the Logan has been going on and on. The Etios being from Toyota should be a reliable car, though built to a cost. Had checked out the cabin of the Etios recently and was impressed with the space in it. (some thoughts on Tata etc in this link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2440755 (Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan upto 12L) ). The aesthetic design left a LOT to be desired. It is a practical from-the-head choice.

You could also consider the Nissan Sunny, which has been unveiled. Thread link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ze-market.html (Nissan Sunny unveiled for the the Indian mid-size market.)
It is expected to be quite spacious, though with concerns about headroom on the rear bench.

Would you like to elaborate your needs and budget a bit more? It would help people make more constructive suggestions, in case you are looking for them.

Last edited by Poitive : 4th August 2011 at 20:24.
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Old 4th August 2011, 20:52   #109
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Would you like to elaborate your needs and budget a bit more? It would help people make more constructive suggestions, in case you are looking for them.
Hey POitive,
Thanks man. Well the thing that struck me was the guy's in touch with other 20 owners of manza and they all have reported this problem though I guess they haven't been as aggressive in following up with the dealer and TML.
In any case the cabin of the TD car felt really cheap ,almost a flea motel kind of feel.
The gear shift was too notchy for my taste and the steering felt a little vague.
Well I'm a nuclear family (2+2) under 5.6 feet(all of us), self driven , would not like to cross 9 lacs for OTR price, good FE(ocassional long drives with family and drives to trekking trail heads in western ghats).
Precise steering and agility are big plusses in a car. Gearshift should not be notchy. It should atleast be a mild drivers car !
so considering all this I've chosen Linea. Would have loved the optra but they as I've said earlier are all quoting over 10 lacs for the LT in bangalore which is beyond what i am comfortable spending on a car right now.

Logan a definite No because it's dated and a cab image out here in bangalore. I'm not a snob but can't ignore what my family thinks either !
No petrols right now (so no sunny and etios) only diesels and I want a car this month so can't wait.

Last edited by NoMind : 4th August 2011 at 20:57. Reason: clarification
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Old 4th August 2011, 23:08   #110
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMind View Post
... Well I'm a nuclear family (2+2) under 5.6 feet(all of us), self driven , would not like to cross 9 lacs for OTR price, good FE(ocassional long drives with family and drives to trekking trail heads in western ghats).
Precise steering and agility are big plusses in a car. Gearshift should not be notchy. It should atleast be a mild drivers car !
...
If I may suggest, you should also think of Fiesta Classic Diesel as an option here. Seems to meet your requirement.

Last edited by amit1234singla : 4th August 2011 at 23:30.
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Old 5th August 2011, 02:34   #111
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMind View Post
Hey Poitive,
Thanks man. Well the thing that struck me was the guy's in touch with other 20 owners of manza and they all have reported this problem though I guess they haven't been as aggressive in following up with the dealer and TML.
You are welcome mate! Yes, such things happen. Given the legal situation and cost of building a brand, some companies go in for a recall in such situations (can recollect Toyota and Honda having gone through some of these).

From the bit of research I had done on the Optra on the forum, it seemed there was an issue with the Fuel Pump of the Optra Magnum sometime around 2009. In most cases, the owners managed to get free replacements IIRC. This is not preventing me for wanting to go for the Optra, because it makes a compelling case with the many other positives it has.

Taking this further, you will find many stories of issues (ratting over a certain speed) in the i20. It remains quite a popular car. The car that followed with that concept of design and a steering which is supposed to feel similar, the Fluidic Verna, has succeed like it has - with a waiting of about half a year in a segment with ample competition.

Quote:
In any case the cabin of the TD car felt really cheap ,almost a flea motel kind of feel.
I only checked the Manza after the Elan upgrade. It actually was impressive with that dark maroon and beige coluor interiors. After seeing that cabin and that of the Etios within a few minutes was a major reason behind the post linked above (the one with "The Tata Story"). The finish was inconsistent in some places though.

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The gear shift was too notchy for my taste and the steering felt a little vague.
The gearshift wasn't sporty from what I can remember, but the handling was quite good, though not sharp.

Quote:
Well I'm a nuclear family (2+2) under 5.6 feet(all of us), self driven , would not like to cross 9 lacs for OTR price, good FE(ocassional long drives with family and drives to trekking trail heads in western ghats).
Precise steering and agility are big plusses in a car. Gearshift should not be notchy. It should atleast be a mild drivers car !
so considering all this I've chosen Linea.
With the Linea as a benchmark, am not surprised that you found the Manza quite average as a driver's car.

Given your above requirements, the Linea does feel like a good choice, the A$$ and Fiat's future in India notwithstanding (there is a lot of talk on various threads about how/if Fiat will survive).

Quote:
Would have loved the optra but they as I've said earlier are all quoting over 10 lacs for the LT in bangalore which is beyond what i am comfortable spending on a car right now.
The LS model sells at 1L lesser. In Delhi, after discounts, one can get an LS for a little over 9L. You should head for the Spacious Diesel Sedans thread. IIRC pages 40 onwards has some posts about quotes people got (probably one from Bangalore itself). There are a few before that too, but they may be too old now.

Try another GM dealer?

Quote:
Logan a definite No because it's dated and a cab image out here in bangalore. I'm not a snob but can't ignore what my family thinks either !
The Logan also has a pretty long 100-0 distance (based on figures from Smartcat's thread about the comparison on sedans under 12L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
If I may suggest, you should also think of Fiesta Classic Diesel as an option here. Seems to meet your requirement.
Somehow, given the lack of space for my body structure, this car isn't on my radar, but it could be a very good choice for NoMind. Thanks for bringing it up Amit. IIRC it was your link on the sister thread, which got me to Smartcat's wonderful thread mentioned above. Thanks for that too.
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Old 5th August 2011, 12:12   #112
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
...
Somehow, given the lack of space for my body structure, this car isn't on my radar, but it could be a very good choice for NoMind. Thanks for bringing it up Amit. IIRC it was your link on the sister thread, which got me to Smartcat's wonderful thread mentioned above. Thanks for that too.
Poitive, I was recommending this to NoMind considering his requirement and hence quoted that part of his post as well. Of course, Fiesta Classic will not have the new feeling as it's also a dated car to some extent. But a few (me included) find the the clean lines and simple looks very appealing.

No need to thank buddy, we are all here to share and gain from information and I also have gained a lot from your informative posts.
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Old 5th August 2011, 14:34   #113
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Hi All !

The Autocar issue of August'11 has pointed out the followings in a comparision test about Verna Fludic Diesel.

" The steering calls for repeated inputs to keep it on course "

I have booked a Fludic Verna 1.6 CRDI SX on 01/06/2011 & am waiting for the delivery. While TD, I could not feel the above short comings of Verna, though I could only take the car upto 110 kmph only due to the traffic.

Requesting all of you to narrate your experience on the above finding of Autocar.

I had taken TD of Optra Magnum Diesel as well. Cabin of Magnum diesel felt far more noiser than the Verna Diesel. Few have felt otherwise. Observations plz.

I have been offered a cash discount of 25k on Optra Magnum Diesel. Is it O.K. or is it possible to have a better deal.

Thanks.
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Old 5th August 2011, 14:43   #114
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMind View Post
The author has reported this problem in gearheads forum and in the indica yahoo user group.
Here's the link:
Un-Solved - New Tata Manza pulls to the left over 30 times alignment checked, need solution.

He has driven many other new ones from a dealership and they all(according to him) display this behavior. It was so bizarre that I decided to cancel my booking.
This is very true. Myself being one of the members on Tata Indica User's Group (TIUG) on yahoo groups, I have had lengthy discussions with him regarding his left pulling issue, which now stands resolved due to his perseverance. Poor fellow could not get TBHP membership despite trying for several months, hence I had created a thread over here on his behalf, so that other Manza owners could give some valuable inputs. Below is the thread link.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ling-left.html (New Tata Manza pulling to the left)

Though I am a proud owner of one such TATA product, instances like these don't inspire much confidence. I want to know from expert members on this forum, had such an issue occurred with another car brand, would that company have gone all the way to fix this (at any cost) & make sure that the customer (if not delighted) at least has no grievances? Which car companies would you list in the top three?
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Old 5th August 2011, 19:11   #115
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan View Post
I have been offered a cash discount of 25k on Optra Magnum Diesel. Is it O.K. or is it possible to have a better deal.

Thanks.
Chitta Pradhan,

Dunno about the issue with Verna but regarding the discounts, i think you can do better than 25k. I have booked my Magnum day before yesterday and I got discount of 40k. They normally have a free insurance scheme but do not go for that. Ask them to deduct the same amount from Ex-works, you will save some more in taxes.

They also offered me the standard freebies - mats, mud flaps, teflon coating and body cover.

Good luck.
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Old 7th August 2011, 13:46   #116
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4, Manza. EDIT: Fluidic Verna (pg4), New Fiesta (P

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
Of course, Fiesta Classic will not have the new feeling as it's also a dated car to some extent. But a few (me included) find the the clean lines and simple looks very appealing.
+1
One does like the more conventional look of many older cars. They still have appeal. Another reason I like the Optra

Quote:
No need to thank buddy, we are all here to share and gain from information and I also have gained a lot from your informative posts.
Ah, mate! I simply think it is good to thank people when they have been good/helpful.
So now we both can thank each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan View Post
The Autocar issue of August'11 has pointed out the followings in a comparision test about Verna Fludic Diesel.

" The steering calls for repeated inputs to keep it on course "

I have booked a Fludic Verna 1.6 CRDI SX on 01/06/2011 & am waiting for the delivery. While TD, I could not feel the above short comings of Verna, though I could only take the car upto 110 kmph only due to the traffic.

Requesting all of you to narrate your experience on the above finding of Autocar.
I can't remember having any such feeling in my TD, but it may have a LOT to do with one's driving style. Don't think I was going on a totally straight stretch long enough to really judge that. If one is anyway turning and swerving, one would be giving inputs anyway, so no real way to judge.

As you may have read on the report on page 4, the steering did feel VERY light. Chitta, in case you are planning to use the car extensively on the highway, you should be looking at other cars. There was a thread (IIRC by a member called Soulweaver) to know whether to buy the Magnum or Fluidic Verna for highway use. Predictably it was the Magnum which was recommended by almost everyone. IIRC that is what he bought too. IMO, the Magnum 'feels' like an accomplished car (even though the sales don't say that). Bland, but high quality interiors and an absolute joy to drive (unless you drive a lot in B2B traffic).

The Fluidic is a fine car for city use for many people, especially if it to be used in a lot of Bumper to Bumper traffic. Would probably be the easiest diesel sedan to use in the city. And of course, it has the A$$ network of Hyundai.

Quote:
I had taken TD of Optra Magnum Diesel as well. Cabin of Magnum diesel felt far more noiser than the Verna Diesel. Few have felt otherwise. Observations plz.
I found the cabins of both of them quite noise quite similar in both of them. The Fluidic may have been a shade better, but we also need to keep in mind that the Fluidic was brand new. So in real life situations, they should be quite the same, from what I have been able to gather.

From the reports we have been getting on the Spacious Diesel Sedans thread (link on the first post of this thread), many of the TD vehicles are NOT in good shape, so they tend to leave a bad impression on potential customers. Do bear that in mind. Even within Delhi, members have had varied experiences from their TDs. Do factor that in while making a judgement.

Quote:
I have been offered a cash discount of 25k on Optra Magnum Diesel. Is it O.K. or is it possible to have a better deal.
Better! As @NoRules too said. Keeping a cheque-book handy helps. If you post on the New Car prices thread, I expect @mdsaab to give you a good way to handle those. He has helped many save a few grand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Poor fellow could not get TBHP membership despite trying for several months, hence I had created a thread over here on his behalf, so that other Manza owners could give some valuable inputs. Below is the thread link.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ling-left.html (New Tata Manza pulling to the left)

Though I am a proud owner of one such TATA product, instances like these don't inspire much confidence. I want to know from expert members on this forum, had such an issue occurred with another car brand, would that company have gone all the way to fix this (at any cost) & make sure that the customer (if not delighted) at least has no grievances? Which car companies would you list in the top three?
You seem to be a very helpful person @autoindian. A pleasure to interact with you on the forum.

Yes, instances like this tend to get one worried. It seems double standards are applied to Indian manufacturers (mainly Tata). The i20 has had trouble with it's steering, but people seem to accept that without branding Hyundai. Both cars sell. The Vento has high noise levels, from what I hear (and even experienced it a bit), but being a famed German manufacturer, they get away with it. I expect if those things were happening in Tata products, Tata would have got bashed a lot more than the others.

About which companies would have gone to as much effort - I think it would depend a LOT on the persistence of the customer and how he approached the issue. Also if he got in touch with the right people. My experience in such matters has been, that it has a LOT to do with getting the right person involved.
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Old 24th February 2012, 02:33   #117
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4 & Manza. EDIT : Fluidic Verna added on pg 4

but one thing i would like to comment is that if you buy the optra please change the headlight bulb to 90/100 and the horn also. they are very weak and dont gel with the car you will get to know once you buy the car.

You are bang on about the lights and horn. I have changed mine to Philips 90/100 and seems to be pretty good. Could you suggest me about the horn and which one you have changed to?
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Old 25th February 2012, 02:04   #118
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Default Re: Driven! Vento, Optra, Linea, SX4 & Manza. EDIT : Fluidic Verna added on pg 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepeshh View Post
You are bang on about the lights and horn. I have changed mine to Philips 90/100 and seems to be pretty good. Could you suggest me about the horn and which one you have changed to?
@deepeshh, you may find the discussion in the link useful, especially if you have put the bulbs without a relay. There is a thread on the forum about a Vento which caught fire. We don't know if it had anything to do with electrical accessories. That makes me a bit more wary of fooling around with the electricals.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2658291 (My huge Sedan - Maroon Chevrolet Optra Magnum LT 2.0)

I have yet to upgrade the lamps. Have not had an issue within Delhi, as it has good street lights. On the highway, it would be rather useful.

I suspect that the horn has been changed, as it doesn't seem as meek as the general opinion was. I may not even change it. In case you do, please update your experience.

-----------------------

Bought the Optra Magnum!
Even though this wasn't the "what-car" thread, I should have updated this thread too. Sorry guys I didn't update. It was bought a few months back and an ownership report started almost right away.

Within a couple of weeks of starting the ownership report, I went on a "break" from the forum. Only returned a few weeks back after 4.5 months. Have also been under the impression that anyone following this thread, would also have been following the sister Choosing thread. Had updated the Choosing thread with the link of the ownership report.

I am thankful to everyone who helped me reach the decision with confidence - especially about GM service. Will soon be adding a post to formally thank everyone in the ownership report. Thanks once again.

Link to the Ownership report : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...let-optra.html (Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra))

@Mods, please don't close the thread yet. Expect to add more Test Drive reports - hopefully sometime soon.
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