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Old 30th August 2011, 18:10   #766
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Is there a way to check that synthetic oil has truly been put in?
what if they still fill in mineral oil even though you are paying for synthetic?
or do they fill it up in front of you?
, Well there is absolutely no simple way to figure out if Synthetic oil has been used. Generally speaking Synthetic oil would last longer and feels smoother when you drive. I use Synthetic oil in my Baleno and have felt the engine to be smoother (but used it after crossing 50K Kms).

What i usually now do for oil change is go to the nearby mechanic and from the store nearby buy Castrol Synthetic oil and ask the mechanic to replace oil. As it happens in front of me i am assured that the right oil (for which i paid) has gone in. I also get the oil filters changed whenever i change the oil.
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:36   #767
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by charthom View Post
Be back by end March,2012. This time I will figure out some way to be on the forum-at least in ports. Hope you guys will still keep this thread alive.
Hey dude, I am wondering how I missed your post where you had mentioned about your upcoming assignment. We are gonna miss you badly mate. Just do what all you can to stay in touch with all of us.
Wish you all the luck

Cheers, Kiran
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:49   #768
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
, Generally speaking Synthetic oil would last longer and feels smoother when you drive. I use Synthetic oil in my Baleno and have felt the engine to be smoother (but used it after crossing 50K Kms).
But Mayank,how was this smoothness in comparison with the original feel?

After 50K,you found a smoother engine with synth oil-but how was the smoothness in the beginning with the mineral oil?Baleno engine is acclaimed for its smoothness. The smoothness will naturally reduce after considerable period of operation.Hence the synth must have been comparatively effective. Had you decarb-ed the engine etc?

Quote:
What i usually now do for oil change is go to the nearby mechanic and from the store nearby buy Castrol Synthetic oil and ask the mechanic to replace oil. As it happens in front of me i am assured that the right oil (for which i paid) has gone in. I also get the oil filters changed whenever i change the oil.
Yes,after a while when your warranties have expired.Warranties still intact, it is a better idea to have oil changed at A.S.S. under supervision.

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Originally Posted by kirantp View Post
Hey dude, I am wondering how I missed your post where you had mentioned about your upcoming assignment. We are gonna miss you badly mate. Just do what all you can to stay in touch with all of us.
Wish you all the luck

Cheers, Kiran
Thanks Kiran-this time I am going to leave with a much heavier heart.

Will sure miss you all but I will keep in touch.

Thanks for the best wishes.

But hey-there are 2 more weeks left.Let us be happy.

Last edited by charthom : 30th August 2011 at 21:52.
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Old 30th August 2011, 22:28   #769
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

@everyone

Many thanks for all the inputs. The information provided is really helpful.

@aby

Welcome to the elite club of honda city owners! can't wait for your ownership report. I hope you make it as verbose as possible.

@charthom

Sorry to hear you will be gone for a bit but I do hope you will pop in occassionally. What will happen to your city when you are gone? Is it going to stay put with an occassional warm ups? (not sure if your wife will drive) If you are going to leave it parked, have you considered disconnecting the batteries and also jack up the car so that its not on the tyres to prevent deformation?
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Old 30th August 2011, 22:44   #770
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post

Sorry to hear you will be gone for a bit but I do hope you will pop in occassionally. What will happen to your city when you are gone? Is it going to stay put with an occassional warm ups? (not sure if your wife will drive) If you are going to leave it parked, have you considered disconnecting the batteries and also jack up the car so that its not on the tyres to prevent deformation?
I will try my best to pop up.

Thanks for the concern Sudeep.And for the info,especially about jacking up the car.

In fact my wife is as experienced as me as a driver and far more sensible. My choice of an automatic with a great driver's seat was primarily for her bad back. I am happy with the i10 for City rides.She finds the i10's driver's seat good too.Hence both cars are safe with her.

Last edited by charthom : 30th August 2011 at 22:46.
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Old 30th August 2011, 23:22   #771
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by charthom View Post
I will try my best to pop up.

Thanks for the concern Sudeep.And for the info,especially about jacking up the car.

In fact my wife is as experienced as me as a driver and far more sensible. My choice of an automatic with a great driver's seat was primarily for her bad back. I am happy with the i10 for City rides.She finds the i10's driver's seat good too.Hence both cars are safe with her.
I like the fact that you are self critical. So considering your wife's experience with driving and cars, perhaps she also should also join the T-BHP club?

Also, are you considering a service before leaving? I do not recall if your car was serviced recently and you wrote about it here. It might be a good idea since it will not need to go for a service until you are back.
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Old 31st August 2011, 03:53   #772
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by charthom View Post
But Mayank,how was this smoothness in comparison with the original feel?

After 50K,you found a smoother engine with synth oil-but how was the smoothness in the beginning with the mineral oil?Baleno engine is acclaimed for its smoothness. The smoothness will naturally reduce after considerable period of operation.Hence the synth must have been comparatively effective. Had you decarb-ed the engine etc?
At 40 K De-Carbonizing was done and i think Normal oil was put in, and when i went next time i asked for Synthetic oil to be put in (must be around 45K). Thereafter when i went to my local mechanic just for general checkup he mentioned the oil looks bad (I think it had run only 5K at that time) so i decided to change again to Synthetic in front of me and since then i have noticed engine was smoother and quieter.

Nothing else had changed hence i was attributing all this improvement to change in oil.
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Old 31st August 2011, 04:01   #773
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
But before that happened, I was at the service station with a serious German engineer. He showed me why, my car was in pain. All the cars in Germany he claimed ran on Synthetics as the speeds they do and the mileage they cover, the weather they have did not let them settle for mineral. He also explained that it's the initial moments that cause more damage and the stationary running engine is counter productive for parts. I clearly remember he said, "if you stand at a place with few books in hand then you get tired more as you have muscle stress, if you move the blood will clean and provide muscles with oxygen". Thus I am a proponent of Synthetic as it's clinically designed for the initial layer. Second thing I learnt was that he said, it's better to service regularly rather than waiting long period. However, in India it's not the same, we drive less, average German will do 16k km annually also mostly on highways and unclogged roads so they change twice a year, here I do half of it in a year so does not make sense for me to go Synthetic. It's his second advice I heed to.

It is not wrong to go Synthetic at any stage, I have seen Jazz and Civic in UK come with Synthetic out of box.
Thanks for the info mate.

Yes, regular high speed driving (on autobahns) calling for synthetic is very much understandable. Constant driving at those speeds would be seen as extreme conditions for the car in India.

Yes, initial moments of the car engine starting are what may cause the maximum damage. Hence the warm up time on cold start. However, I couldn't understand the bit about stationary running being counterproductive. Could this be elaborated?

AFAIK, regular oil change is the most critical thing for taking care of an engine (probably barring not running it at high revs when cold).

Our running 10k may be equal to 16k for the Germans. Our cars go though more stress with our stop and go traffic and poorer roads, though face lesser high speed driving. (the 10k is not any calculated figure. Is only a guesstimate).

Not using synthetic initially was about cars in which the company gives an option of running it on mineral. Say if synthetic is recommended for the Cruze, one really should NOT use mineral, even in the running in period. The logic (good or bad) behind using mineral in such cases is to not provide too smooth a layer so as to not avoid the polishing the engine goes through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirantp View Post
Folks, I did notice the difference since going synthetic during my 2nd free service at 2K ODO. Now I am at 5K ODO, done with 3rd free service and did not go for an oil change yet.

The difference that I have noticed is in the smoothness of the engine while you are on the run. You hardly hear the engine cry even when you press the gas when you are doing 80+ kmph. I have tested this with all windows open and absolutely no music. Imagine with windows closed, you will feel as if you are sailing
Hey, Since you changed to synthetic at such an early stage, there is no fair comparison between a mineral oil change and a synthetic oil change. After every oil change, I have noticed ample improvement in smoothness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charthom View Post
Poitive,the key point to remember in successful running-in is to vary the load on the engine.
No wonder they ask us to avoid highway trips (which often mean pretty constant load) in the running in period.

Quote:
Secondly, change the oil in service after the prescribed period of running in whether it is mineral or synthetic.Synthetics are nothing but enhanced minerals. For the running in period,the enhancement is not required as the engine is running under a guarded condition.Each manufacturer(especially highly reputed ones) prescribes the running in procedure which is accurate for that engine.
Hence after the successful running in, it is a common practice to replace the oil with a fresh charge.
This may vary from car to car. For the Optra Magnum, they prescribe a 1k running in period, but the first oil change is at 5k. Guess it has to do with improved technology and claims that cars don't really need the kind of running in they used to.

Quote:
Now the engine is ready for full throttle action. Choose your oil at this stage depending on the requirements.If the maker does not recommend a synthetic,don't use them. If they suggest a choice ,then choose wisely depending on the conditions to which the engine is exposed.Strictly use the grade and brand prescribed-if using a compatible substitute clarify with the maker.
To add to this, most car manufacturers prescribe oil based on ambient temperature. If you are planning a trip to Ladakh, make sure you have the appropriate oil.

From what I understand, companies suggest oil based on perceived usage, service intervals needed by the car, level of cost of servicing they intend for the car, etc. As mentioned above, some cars in UK etc come with synthetic, where as they may come with mineral in India. My guess is that it is to do with perceived usage. If one does a lot of high rev driving, synthetic may be a good idea, after keeping warranty considerations in mind.

Quote:
This is very true and is common practice.Again remember- for a car for which synthetic is not recommended-don't use it without clarifying from the maker.
Taking a proper clarification is surely a very good idea.

Quote:
Again trust the maker-they know that their cars are going to be driven.
Extreme driving conditions by default do not call for synthetics.
Not sure the maker can judge that. One person may buy a City for normal everyday low rev driving. Another may be a freak to take out maximum possible from the engine. The first gen City in India was bought by a lot of car enthusiasts and put to some rather extreme driving.

Quote:
Both engines working under different scavenging conditions-hence different oils( my reasoning)
Charthom mate, I didn't understand what you were saying here.

PS: For those who may be interested -

Some thoughts on running in in a longish post on my ownership thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2482032 (Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra))

How I am running in The VVS Magnum :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2482256 (Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra))

Last edited by Poitive : 31st August 2011 at 04:03.
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Old 31st August 2011, 05:06   #774
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by aby View Post
Finally after weeks of bargaining, I proudly took possession of my Bold Beige ANHC yesterday. First impression was fantastic. But thanks a ton to this ownership review thread, which kind of was the thing which tipped the balance.

Will post a detailed first week review next week.
Congratulations Aby and wishing you miles and miles of driving pleasure. Looking forward to your ownership thread.

Which variant did you get? Was it readily available for immediate delivery? Can you share the details regarding costing/discounts and which dealer was this (either in this thread or the New car price thread)?
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Old 31st August 2011, 08:25   #775
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post
I like the fact that you are self critical. So considering your wife's experience with driving and cars, perhaps she also should also join the T-BHP club?
Women are more sensible in many ways-Sudeep.Given a green signal,you will purchase an entire shopful of car enhancing products,right!! So the green signal is not given. Yes, I will pull her towards T-BHP-Presently she has difficulty in sitting up for prolonged periods.

Quote:
Also, are you considering a service before leaving? I do not recall if your car was serviced recently and you wrote about it here. It might be a good idea since it will not need to go for a service until you are back.
Thanks for your concern again Sudeep-you are really caring.

First service was done in July.I had written here.2nd free one will be due on 4th of Sept. I will finish these jobs before leaving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Thereafter when i went to my local mechanic just for general checkup he mentioned the oil looks bad (I think it had run only 5K at that time)
If proper fl;ushing is not done after the decarb,then oil will look dirty sooner than normal. The point I wanted to confirm was is the smoothness due to the decarb or synth oil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post


Not sure the maker can judge that. One person may buy a City for normal everyday low rev driving. Another may be a freak to take out maximum possible from the engine. The first gen City in India was bought by a lot of car enthusiasts and put to some rather extreme driving.
They sure can,Mate. The healthy condition remains till the red line. So any kind of driving with that engine is covered under the maker's judgement.

Of course as long as enthusiasm and extreme driving are not abusive. They usually mention this.

Quote:
However, I couldn't understand the bit about stationary running being counterproductive. Could this be elaborated?
Buddy, an engine is the healthiest while running under the maximum healthy load. The thermal stresses are evenly distributed,the expansion is uniform throughout,most efficient combustion, since the exhaust temperature is maximum, less chance of acidic corrosion of the components etc.

Now stationary running is basically no load running. It is essential initially for a healthy distribution of thermal load of the engine(warming up) for preventing material failure and bringing up the exhaust temperature so that acidic corrosion is minimised. If this running is too long then there is a fair chance of fouling of the valves and the exhaust. Or general accumulation of carbon in the engine is more. It may lead to drop in performance,less efficient engine cooling,premature damage to the components(remember the damage to the exhaust manifold if your car hardly runs 5 km daily). So when the warm up indication vanishes start driving the car.In gear running,once the engine has warmed up,is generally healthy,though running of extremely short duration is again bad.

Quote:
Charthom mate, I didn't understand what you were saying here.
Sorry for the term scavenging-if that has caused confusion. It means the breathing of the engine.

As you know T/C is employed to induce an artificial aspiration to the engine-ie. air is forced into the cylinder in order to develop more power. Generally more the scavenge pressure better the chance that the ignition is complete and all combustion products are evacuated before the next combustion cycle.

Since a better T/c is used the aspiration of the Cruze may be better-hence less fouling. So infrequent change of oil is sufficient. So a synthetic oil with longer duration of service must have been chosen.

Same engine developing more power-hence thermal load on the engine is more in Cruze. So it needs an oil that retains its properties at higher temperature range. Hence a synthetic enhanced oil. This is another probable reason.

Since the Cruze is a later product-they must have prescribed a synth. The Optra being rather old-the data base may not be upto date. This could be a third and probably actual reason.

Last edited by charthom : 31st August 2011 at 08:38.
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Old 31st August 2011, 11:02   #776
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Thanks buddy-for your loving concern. I don't have internet access out at sea. I might try to access at ports. Will be on and off-it seems. But I will miss you all day and night, for sure.
March 2012 is a long, long time, at least by Team-BHP's clocks!

Seriously though, hope you have a good time out there, charthom buddy. I will miss you and your superb updates till then, and I will be keeping a close eye on this thread (have it bookmarked already).

Like Sudeep said, it will be wise to service your City before you leave. I am sure you have it noted down under your "Must-Do Jobs Before I Sail" list.

Take good care of yourself and keep us updated whenever you port.
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Old 31st August 2011, 11:22   #777
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

Charthom,

Will miss you and your sense of humor. Sad there is no port in Bangalore Jokes apart, you should visit Bangalore next summer.
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Old 31st August 2011, 13:36   #778
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by JD1 View Post
Congratulations Aby and wishing you miles and miles of driving pleasure. Looking forward to your ownership thread.

Which variant did you get? Was it readily available for immediate delivery? Can you share the details regarding costing/discounts and which dealer was this (either in this thread or the New car price thread)?
Still in the process of honeymoon with the car. Took an S-MT from Magnum.

First impressions (since I am upgrading from Swift) - Wow.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:07   #779
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@Charthom have a great time at sea. I am sure you will be our wiki for ANHC during this off-land excursion. Thanks for the explanation for load and scavenging issues. I agree 100%.
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Old 31st August 2011, 15:17   #780
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Default Re: Does anyone buy a Honda City anymore?! Oops! I did-and fell in love with it!!

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Originally Posted by charthom View Post
Buddy, an engine is the healthiest while running under the maximum healthy load.
---------
Since the Cruze is a later product-they must have prescribed a synth. The Optra being rather old-the data base may not be upto date. This could be a third and probably actual reason.
Wow! Thanks for this wonderful post Charthom mate! Is really helpful and gives a more complete perspective things. Yes, the confusion was due to the term scavenging. Am not technical enough :(

If you don't mind, may I quotesome of your posts in my ownership thread at an appropriate time.

Now in the above, I didn't understand what the data base not being upto date meant. What data base?

OT:
And yes, all the very best for your journey. Be sure you will be missed on the forum. In a short time, you have built a strong community and friendly feeling amongst many people. It really is wonderful. Do hope to hear from you from your port visits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aby View Post
Finally after weeks of bargaining, I proudly took possession of my Bold Beige ANHC yesterday. First impression was fantastic. But thanks a ton to this ownership review thread, which kind of was the thing which tipped the balance.
Congrats mate! This is one of the special threads on the forum. I visit it, even when I have never really thought of the ANHC as even a prospective purchase (though admittedly, there are gaps in between).

@Charthom and everyone else on this thread - Thanks for this wonderful thread.
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