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Old 4th July 2011, 15:24   #16
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
LOL, you sure have a way with words, as with cars, outings and photography!

Any particular reason you didn't check out the i10?

I doubt if i20 maintenance would be that much. Did you get a chance to find out what is being done in the regular service? If it uses a fully synthetic oil, then yes, the oil itself would amount to Rs. 3k something. But otherwise the costs should be around 1K for a routine service.
Thanks honeybee. i10 does not have a diesel. If it did, life would be much simpler, or maybe not! We would have more confusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I dont think the hatchback story can end without a TD of the Punto! IMHO it is leagues ahead of the others that you have already seen in terms of drive + handling.

The i20 also has its own set of steering issues reported. Check the i10; though it could disappoint you in terms of space too.

And while you are at it, why not TD the Nano too? I agree its genetically aligned with your truck, but at the most its a mini truck with reduced noises too. Dont buy it if you dont want to, but at least a TD would complete your story with a cheap hatchback flashback
Punto/Nano. You will have to drag me to a Tata dealership kicking and screaming, I already have two. Most probably the safari will be replaced by another behemoth from Tata. So Tata slot is for the SUVs, for hatches, I would choose the hero honda mentality
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
I was rolling on the floor reading your TD experiences. Would be eagerly waiting to hear which BOY you finally decide upon.

Are you not interested in the refined tractor (Vista i mean)?

EDIT: Just now read your other thread with the POLL. So Punto and Vista are out of the equation alltogether.
See my point above
Quote:
Originally Posted by _raVan_ View Post
Boy, you are an excellent writer! Direct to the point and calling a spade, a spade! Come on, update it faster with which one was it finally!
I wish I knew. I guess till we book, I won't have the foggiest idea
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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
tsk1979 superb posts, keenly awaiting the verdict, the selection, and the initial review. What have you finally selected?

Do you write novels by any chance as a profession? Don't mean friction, but then what other kinds are there.
Thanks ACM. I think you meant fiction. Nope no writing novels. But I do spin yarns
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevintomin View Post
Great write up. I enjoyed every bit. I strongly feel you should wait for the new Swift. It is just few months away and if reviews are anything to go by it is a better package.
Could not find anything in the swift which makes it a better package, except that the rear door does not have a dent
Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Hilarious tsk, Loved every bit of it.

4 grand arounds for every 10 thousand km service is what the swift or the Ritz is going to cost you too. 1200 bucks alone for an oil change, then alignment balancing, brake cleaning etc etc + the service cost of 1000 odd rupees equates to an overall of 4 grand.

A flywheel change is mandatory in the Maruti's too ( atleast the diesels) along with a clutch change but the change won't cost u 24 grand. A Maruti clutch set ( as they call it ) costs around 8 to 9 grand for parts + labour of 2 grand or so. So should be on its way for around 12 grand maximum.
Nopee, its 1500 for marutis. Around 20K service you spend 6000, but normally its around 2500-3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Why you left the Punto out?
Boy, I am not going to be dragged into a Tata showroom. Last time we walked into one, we got the white elephant. We are scared we will go into a Tata,and buy a vista
So we won't go. See how i20 has wrecked our budget
Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivasmhn View Post
tsk1979,
From your words, i have already migrated fro mini-truck an Indica DLG to Ritz. It worth an consideration. All it needs a tyre upgrade to 195 profile and Ritz rocks. With the ammount you save with respect to Swift spice up Ritz.
Only advantage with Swift is that may fetch better re-sale value than Ritz.
Aah resale. Thats a point even we are thinking about. But for a car to be kept for 6 years, will it be a big loss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
What happened to your "the lesser the better" thought process ?

I can totally understand how you feel. Cars like i10 and i20 feel so good that they make you forget everything else. In fact, when I took the TD of i10, the sales person almost challenged me by saying that "If you take a TD of i10, you will definitely buy it". It seems that you have also been hypnotised by i20 in a similar manner.

No matter how good i20 feels, do you really think that it meets your requirements stated in the other thread ?

IIRC, you were looking for a budget hatch which would be niggle free and suitable for highway cruising.

IMHO, Ritz fits the bill better. Ritz has a higher seating position which gives you a commanding view of the road. Its tall boy design is more suitable for your built. Its high GC and shorter wheel base would ensure that it doesn't scrap any speed breakers. Being a Maruti, its maintenance costs would be lower and availability of service centres would be better.

i20 has known issues - weak AC and steering rattle issues. Its low GC means that you would be scraping speed breakers. Why do you still want to go down the same route again by listening to your heart and not the head ?

Also, do remember to inquire about service intervals. Maruti cars have a service interval of 10k kms/1 year. Hyundai cars also have a similar service interval, but they insist on 5k kms/6 months for cars in severe usage consitions. Severe usage conditions are like long idling, frequent change of gears etc (basically using a car in city amount to using it in severe conditions). I am sick of getting the car serviced every 6 months, even though my usage is very less.

And do keep in mind the service costs also. I recently paid almost 3k for the routine servicing of my i10 1.1. It was just a routine service with engine oil change, nothing else. No WA, no WB, no shampoo cleaning, no wax polish.

If the service charges for 6 month routine service for i10 1.1 is Rs 3K, you can only think about the service charges for a premium hatch like i20.

Is the Figo really that bad ? I find it hard to believe. Figo diesel is selling like hot cakes, at least in Bangalore. I have seen many Figos zipping past me on the expressway, while I am cruising at 80 kmph.

I somehow feel that the TD cars were poorly maintained. Again hard to believe since you took 2 TDs. Still, I suggest you take a TD in a friend's/fellow BHPian's Figo.

Rohan
Interesting maintenance angle. I know what you say is true. But the car is so damn nice so drive. The interiors are so high quality. Its tempting. But I am aware of the issues, and thats the reason we won't go for it. If there was a cheaper i10 diesel, then it may have made sense.
As for Figo, its nice, but on the highway it requires work. It won't effortless touch the ton. You have to work the gears. Moreover, the condition of the abused figo has appalled us. The real test of quality of any car is abuse. I have seen abused swift-Ds and they really hold up well to abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman7 View Post
Awesome write up Tanveer

If I were you, I'd have a toss up between the Ritz and the Swift. Both the Ritz and the Swift are F-A-S-T. And in the right hands, both would be able to keep up with a i20 CRDi.

Add to this, the Suzuki twins will be a lot more lighter on your pocket.

There's not much you can do about the way the Ritz looks. But you sure as hell can pimp it up with some mind numbing alloys.

Happy Shopping!!
Thanks. Its looking like a ritz. But watch this space!
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Old 4th July 2011, 15:24   #17
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping - Redux

Awesome,great write up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Time to take a TD of the Chevy.
1km later we both are back with our busted knees. I am sure there is commission somewhere for knee surgeons with every sale.
Never knew that,o boy,i should start my shop next to a Chevy showroom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
We still don't know. Ritz is the strongest contender, but i20 still tempts. 3 years back we bought the big white elephant listing to our heart, but now its time to listen to the head, and head is saying ritz.
I own a Ritz VXi,its a wonderful car except for the rear design which many people dont like.My senior consultant went on to say that"Looks like they made a long single car with 8 wheels and then decided to chop it in between using a sword thereby making 2 cars from one!!"
The Manager of the Maruti workshop in my city had an i20 but sold it off in about 14 months time as he had scraped his car over a huge speed breaker with 4 adults in the car and had to spend 28k for the underbody repairs.I dont know about exact damages to the car.Now he owns a Ritz and has not scraped the underbody.I know many people will feel that i'm not correct but i'm just stating what he told me.
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Old 4th July 2011, 15:28   #18
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Why you left the Punto out?

I think that he mentioned on the other thread - he didn't want a car with A.S.S. headaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
A short while later, guess what, we are TDing a much smoother figo.
Its nice. Its peppier, its acceptable. We like it. It will be our next car! The AC is an absolute chiller. I am freezing. This car seems like perfect!

And then on a long empty stretch, we realize that life is not simple. Even a new Figo does not have the horses to be a highway sprinter.
Its a struggle if you want to stay above 80.

Big struggle.
...

10pm, and I am on the phone with an i20 owner. And then the miracle happens.
i20 is out

Why? Every service at 10,000kms costs close to 4K atleast, and the clutch costs 24K because you need to change flywheel.
So if clutch lasts 70K, we are looking at a good 1rs/km maintenance cost. Same as the big while elephant.

So whats its going to be?

We still don't know. Ritz is the strongest contender, but i20 still tempts. 3 years back we bought the big white elephant listing to our heart, but now its time to listen to the head, and head is saying ritz.
But we were never good listeners. Were we?

...


Great comparo tsk, as a Figo owner I agree with you - the car is perfect except for the engine (you TDed a diesel - petrol is worse).

I still bought it because NH runs will be rare for me - and recommended to you because your requirements were the same.


By the way, between Ritz and i20 (and given you already have the truck when you need large capacity) you should go for Ritz. Why? because i20 is known to have other major annoying (and possibly dangerous) problems -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...se-issues.html


I had my heart set on i20 too, but this was the biggest reason I went for Figo (Ritz was out because I needed space).

Last edited by mobike008 : 4th July 2011 at 17:32. Reason: as requested
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Old 4th July 2011, 16:00   #19
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping

I test drove all the above mentioned cars when I was shopping for my diesel hatch and the highest points were for lower maintenance cost, good A.S.S, resale value and fuel efficiency. The Punto was the car that kept prodding me to it as far as as driving dynamics and road behavior was concerned and figo was a close second. But 1 drive of the Ritz and I came back crashing to mother earth when realization hit upon me and made me re-look at the reason why I was buying a diesel hatch and so stuck to my original list of requirements. As far as I know A.S.S was you primary concern right in your other thread ? So I repeat it has to be the Ritz if you are buying with your mind and not your heart.

Last edited by SPARKled : 4th July 2011 at 16:04.
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Old 4th July 2011, 16:26   #20
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Wow. Have just read the first post and am enjoying the writing style more than the car 'details'.
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Old 4th July 2011, 16:29   #21
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping

Engrossing write-up Tanveer, I postponed the short but, urgent nature call to read each 7 every word of your 2 posts.

I understand your dilemma & sympathise with you & the choices you have to make. Here are my views for you:

1. Ritz - Since you have the White Elephant (Safari) for your fun rides, guess the Ritz fills the bill perfectly for a diesel city run-about. It is slightly more roomy than the Swift, not as good in sales numbers as compared to Swift & not as good looking, but, is as good built, as good performer, is equally good (better than any competitors) when it comes to A.S.S. & can be acquired earlier as compared to Swift. Moreover, it is much cheaper as compared to the i20.

2. i20 - It is much better built than anything Maruti-Suzuki can offer under 10 lacs, is much more roomier & classier, the ride may not be as good, but, is better performer IMO & equally good at inter-city errands, is equally good at A.S.S. capabilities (may be bit heavy on the pocket though), the diesel engine is far better to the Maruti-Suzuki tuned National Diesel Engine. There is fly in the soup however (the steering rattle). But, both you & your wife have liked the car & in fact appear to be under the spell.

Now, the choice has to between your pocket & heart, not the head & the heart unlike last time when you bought the White Elephant.
However, you please refer to my comparison of the Hyundai built quality with that of Maruti-Suzuki (refer below link where I have remarked for GTO's comments on Hyundai's Jun-11 sales number), & then make the choice:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2414545 (June 2011 : Indian Car Sales Figures)

I am sure you would anyway make the sensible choice (even I am tilted towards Ritz for the sake of saving few grands) in the end.

Best of Luck

Last edited by CARDEEP : 4th July 2011 at 16:33.
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Old 4th July 2011, 17:20   #22
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Default Re: When truck drivers go hatch hopping

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Thanks honeybee. i10 does not have a diesel. If it did, life would be much simpler, or maybe not! We would have more confusion
Unless you insist on a diesel, you could look at the Santro LPG/CNG option. If yuo already own an Indica, how about the new e-V2 variant? If you need more boot space, there's the e-CS variety.
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Old 4th July 2011, 17:29   #23
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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Unless you insist on a diesel, you could look at the Santro LPG/CNG option. If yuo already own an Indica, how about the new e-V2 variant? If you need more boot space, there's the e-CS variety.
In noida you have long CNG queues. Moreover, it will be a pain on highway trips. I think I will stick to diesel. And no Tata. Already have 2 of them!

We do two kinds of holidays. Holidays for regions with bad roads and holidays to regions with no roads.
For no roads, we have the safari, for bad roads, the new car will do, and from what I have seen and read on many forums, Maruti is the best bet. Every remote area I have been to has a Maruti service station.

Speaking of Figo, its a nice car, but its a pain on highways to constantly have to wring the engine. Its not good. I already have a car in which I have to wring the engine and everything else to squeeze performance. Not again

Regarding i20. The steering column issue is scaring me. But then in the safari the steering column always makes weird noises. And its there in every safari. You take a full lock turn over uneven surface, and it goes khat khat khat.

Looking at the hue and cry, it appears that Hyundai owners have high expectations of their cars. Which makes me happy. The company must have done something right to build high expectations, right?

See I am justifying i20 again. I hate to do that. We should quietly go for the ritz and save the moolah.
Somebody please tell me bad things about i20. Real bad things.
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Old 4th July 2011, 18:26   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979

We do two kinds of holidays. Holidays for regions with bad roads and holidays to regions with no roads.
For no roads, we have the safari, for bad roads, the new car will do
.

Figo would scrape a lot on these roads I suppose, what with the low GC & longer wheelbase.
Ritz, it should be!

Last edited by Deep Blue : 4th July 2011 at 18:29.
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Old 4th July 2011, 19:16   #25
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post


....

Regarding i20. The steering column issue is scaring me. But then in the safari the steering column always makes weird noises. And its there in every safari. You take a full lock turn over uneven surface, and it goes khat khat khat.

Looking at the hue and cry, it appears that Hyundai owners have high expectations of their cars. Which makes me happy. The company must have done something right to build high expectations, right?

See I am justifying i20 again. I hate to do that. We should quietly go for the ritz and save the moolah.
Somebody please tell me bad things about i20. Real bad things.

First of all, if you need good (and cheap) service all over India - Maruti is your only option.

Second, i20 steering is not a "rattle" issue - it is a design flaw. The rack and pinion assembly on some cars wore out within 3000km twice. And that on city roads. If I remember correctly I read some months ago that one customer's steering became inoperable to some extent. Rattle is one annoying thing - inoperable is a safety problem.

Third, i20 customers do not expect so much from Hyundai because of the brand - they expect more because they pay a lot more and you know the numbers. You see, when you buy an Indica (not Vista) and there are niggles - who cares, for the price of a fully loaded i20 you can buy 2 Indicas - no matter how much kit is on offer, for most people 2 is more than 1.

OTOH somebody who chucked that option, did months of research and finally paid a few lacs more simply to have peace of mind and quality of his ride - not giving him that peace of mind is called bait and switch. Denying that a problem exists is adding insult to injury.



Fourth, go ahead and buy an i20 - you are so used to Tata, Hyundai can't mess your mind.


EDIT: how about the AC on i20 - I hear it is not so great that it'll make NCR summers feel like Shimla

Last edited by vina : 4th July 2011 at 19:21.
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Old 4th July 2011, 19:19   #26
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Lol, couldn't stop laughing at your Maruti showroom description.
Especially the enginneer might have kicked at the rear of the prototype.
Anyway finalised on the hatch to go along with the truck?
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Old 4th July 2011, 19:46   #27
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You write nice tsk. I was also in the same boat last year when upgrading from my indica with exactly the same delima. Ford, Tata & Fiat were ruled out upfront. Hyundai made my case easy by not giving me any delivery date for the i20 diesel in-spite of booking and waiting for 1 month while my wife made it easy by putting her foot down and refusing to sit in RITZ :-).
Landed up buying a Swift diesel and to say that its a joy to drive is an understatement. I drove my indica for 42K in 8 yrs & have already reached 26K in my swift and it still a couple of months for 1 yr.
While I know it is hard to resist the i20 temptation, I would suggest Swift over the RITZ and the extra amount that you pay during buying would be recovered when you sell it after 5-6 years. If possible wait for the new swift. I don't think it would be long now before it is launched.
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Old 4th July 2011, 19:57   #28
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Great write up Looks like you got bowled over by the i20. Something very similar happened to me around 8 months back. That engine, that interior, that solid feel when you close the door and that space made me forget all the niggles reported here. Nothing from Maruthi was even remotely close to the feel the i20 gave. You might think i own it that's why i am saying all good things about it. But trust me, I would have said all this even without buying the car.

I just could not take the i20 out of my mind after the TD. Every other car i took a TD, I ended up comparing it with the i20 even though it almost belonged to the next segment in the price range .I have not seen the rattle in my car after 8 months of use (Touch wood. Hope it doesn't happen anytime soon) and yeah, the ac just about does the job.

Since you want me to talk about the bad things, Yes, It costs 4k per service and the intervals are 6 months unlike many other cars which have one year intervals. Other cars give you better mileage when you compare it with the i20. You might end up getting the steering rattle which might piss you off so much that you might regret putting money on this car.

Oh well, wait a sec. I can't go further. I love it for whatever it is. Its not troubled me for 8 months, I don't want the steering rattle to come up tomorrow morning.

PS : All said, I think you should wait for the new Swift.

Last edited by Kimified : 4th July 2011 at 19:58.
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Old 4th July 2011, 20:17   #29
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tsk1979 I told you the Ritz makes more sence to the head, Swift is just over rated for no reason, and especially you coming from an SUV kind of driving position, will not like low seating cars for too long.
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Old 4th July 2011, 20:28   #30
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Tanveer, that was some awesomely funny stuff. Specially that White Buffalo, gotta show this to my friend who has a D'zire. Now, we've found a new way to pull his leg

Anyway, isn't i20 has some Turbo lag which makes it a bit painful to drive in the mountains(incase you are planning to take it to mountains). I might be wrong but I kind of remember reading about it somewhere. Otherwise, I would choose an i20 over a Ritz anyday. It's more car than a Ritz is, be it the space, feel or the looks. And cars and bikes are always a matter of heart than head. I would say go with your heart and you'll never repent it (we live once as you said).
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