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Old 6th July 2011, 09:42   #76
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Excellent write up tsk. Was laughing all the while when I was reading it.

I was silently following your thread to know where it would head. I was trying the various scenarios that was turning the tide against Figo.

Gear shifts: Yes there are one extra of it in the Figo but the shifts are solid and fun. In fact I am in love with the way the gear shifts. I was under the impression that Swift had the best shifter in the segment but I would say Figo is better. Even though shifts are a tad more you will never notice it;

Incline: A shift extra for all. But what I do is instead of flooring the throttle I step on it in stages. I do not know why the engine behaves differently. Engine noise is less and power seems adequate/.

5th gear 70kmph: Tried this many times today morning on my way to work. The car climbed clean. At 70kmph the rpm is around 1800rpm and when you depress the accelerator slightly the car climbs to 90kmph effortlessly.

In kerala we have good stretches of road but most of the roads are potholed and patches set. Figo glides over these things with ease but I found that Ritz is not settled and swings thoroughly (soft suspension ?)

Mine is a 27K kms old car and 10months old. niggles are bare minimum (Lucky me). Features wise there is no comparison. Figo is far ahead.

I like the fact that you are not visiting the Tata showroom for the fear of actually buying it. I will not underrate that cos My dad ended up buying older gen Vista Petrol while he was looking for a Fiesta replacement.
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:15   #77
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@tsk1979 from your writing i feel that you would have got seriously abused figos. I drive from TVM to chennai occasionally and i have found the performance to be more than adequate and prefer the figo at the high speeds to a swift/ritz any day. I have 25k Figo and the only complaint i have is GC. The figo scrapes the humps on the way to mcity if any of the members that hump. 80-120 is no issue at all. the power tapers off after 140 but it will go till 160 on the speedo if you wring the engine. My sincere advice to you is drive a well maintained figo and make the decision.

All said ritz is a very good car and with Maruti *** that is also quite a compelling proposition. I would stay away from i20 because of the AC. Steering rattle is probably ok and one off but i can tell you that AC is a problem in all the i20s that i have travelled in.
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Old 6th July 2011, 10:45   #78
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On second thoughts I fail to understand your logic when it comes to Tata A$$. For Indica Vista & Punto both, the engine in question is the 1.3 Multijet which is also there in Ritz & Swift. Which means all the issues that you have with your current Tata cars will not be there anymore and if you won't have those issues, you wont have to visit A$$ as often as you do with your current cars.
On the upside, the Indica Vista will be cheaper to buy and run, has more space (make that much more space), will be better off on the highway as far as straightline stability is concerned, will in all probability be safer in the event of a crash (Punto even more so) and you have A$$ which in event of part failures (if any) will replace them no question asked. The same holds true for Punto as well except for the price.
Quite frankly I find your A$$ reason to be over the top. You may want to think again?

Test drove Ritz yesterday while shopping for a car for my friend. Overall very nice to drive but so is Vista and has better quality interiors to boot. Yes, i found the interiors in Vista to be of better quality.

Last edited by akhilesh : 6th July 2011 at 10:46.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:05   #79
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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
On second thoughts I fail to understand your logic when it comes to Tata A$$. For Indica Vista & Punto both, the engine in question is the 1.3 Multijet which is also there in Ritz & Swift. Which means all the issues that you have with your current Tata cars will not be there anymore and if you won't have those issues, you wont have to visit A$$ as often as you do with your current cars.
On the upside, the Indica Vista will be cheaper to buy and run, has more space (make that much more space), will be better off on the highway as far as straightline stability is concerned, will in all probability be safer in the event of a crash (Punto even more so) and you have A$$ which in event of part failures (if any) will replace them no question asked. The same holds true for Punto as well except for the price.
Quite frankly I find your A$$ reason to be over the top. You may want to think again?

Test drove Ritz yesterday while shopping for a car for my friend. Overall very nice to drive but so is Vista and has better quality interiors to boot. Yes, i found the interiors in Vista to be of better quality.
What you say is true akhilesh but guys like me who have had previous bad experiances with TATA will never go for it again.I owned an indica dls too and i had issues from the second week itself.Niggling problems which kept cropping up again and again.True,the quadrajet technology may be leagues ahead but iam paranoid about TATA now.who wants sleepless nights buddy?
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:15   #80
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Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
What you say is true akhilesh but guys like me who have had previous bad experiances with TATA will never go for it again.I owned an indica dls too and i had issues from the second week itself.Niggling problems which kept cropping up again and again.True,the quadrajet technology may be leagues ahead but iam paranoid about TATA now.who wants sleepless nights buddy?
Hi,
if you go to watch a movie in a theater and u get one of the seat which is not comfortable and the AC isn't blowing properly, am sure you would keep off from that theater for some time. lets assume that the owner of the theater renovates the hall and advertises it all over the place, wouldn't you be tempted to go and check out that theater once again??

with service centers its the same. why only TATA, am sure even with maruti, if you have had a bad experience, am sure you wont mind visiting them again (numerous phone calls later).

you folks should at least go and check out the cars, the horror stories about TATA and FIAT *** are exaggerated. but the ground reality isn't that bad these days, at least not here in Bangalore!
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:18   #81
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Originally Posted by figo_mba View Post
Excellent write up tsk. Was laughing all the while when I was reading it.

I was silently following your thread to know where it would head. I was trying the various scenarios that was turning the tide against Figo.

Gear shifts: Yes there are one extra of it in the Figo but the shifts are solid and fun. In fact I am in love with the way the gear shifts. I was under the impression that Swift had the best shifter in the segment but I would say Figo is better. Even though shifts are a tad more you will never notice it;

Incline: A shift extra for all. But what I do is instead of flooring the throttle I step on it in stages. I do not know why the engine behaves differently. Engine noise is less and power seems adequate/.

5th gear 70kmph: Tried this many times today morning on my way to work. The car climbed clean. At 70kmph the rpm is around 1800rpm and when you depress the accelerator slightly the car climbs to 90kmph effortlessly.

In kerala we have good stretches of road but most of the roads are potholed and patches set. Figo glides over these things with ease but I found that Ritz is not settled and swings thoroughly (soft suspension ?)

Mine is a 27K kms old car and 10months old. niggles are bare minimum (Lucky me). Features wise there is no comparison. Figo is far ahead.

I like the fact that you are not visiting the Tata showroom for the fear of actually buying it. I will not underrate that cos My dad ended up buying older gen Vista Petrol while he was looking for a Fiesta replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
@tsk1979 from your writing i feel that you would have got seriously abused figos. I drive from TVM to chennai occasionally and i have found the performance to be more than adequate and prefer the figo at the high speeds to a swift/ritz any day. I have 25k Figo and the only complaint i have is GC. The figo scrapes the humps on the way to mcity if any of the members that hump. 80-120 is no issue at all. the power tapers off after 140 but it will go till 160 on the speedo if you wring the engine. My sincere advice to you is drive a well maintained figo and make the decision.

All said ritz is a very good car and with Maruti *** that is also quite a compelling proposition. I would stay away from i20 because of the AC. Steering rattle is probably ok and one off but i can tell you that AC is a problem in all the i20s that i have travelled in.
Thanks for the i20 details. Even sudev reported the weak AC. I guess that puts i20 out of the equation(I think!). Regarding Figo power delivery, it may be very nice stand alone, but I took TD of two figos, including one brand new one. I took TD of ritz twice and swift once, and the TDs were done back to back. both me and my wife felt that in the city it was excellent, but as soon as you hit 80s, it tapers off more than in the Ritz/Swift.
As for the gearshift, its nicer than the swift. However, Ritz has an added benefit of high placed gearshift. Since both me and my wife are fairly tall, we have a habit of driving with seats pushed back. In such a scenario, in most cars, for gear shifting left arm has to stretch. However in ritz, its not so. Most people find such gear shifts not very nice, but we just loved the shifter. In absolute smoothness, the gearshift of the figo is indeed better, and for 4.94L we get similar features to 5.20L ritz.
But the following things put figo out of the question
1. Highway drivability
2. Ford A.S.S are far few in number than Maruti
3. Their 60K maintenance plan costs 45000rs. This means company anticipates a high running cost over 60,000kms. Now company may be intending to make a nice profit out of maintenance plans, but this shakes your confidence.

Regarding speed etc., the Figo salesman says that the Figo AC uses a much larger compressor than most other hatches. Now thats very nice, but it also saps more power. That could be part of the reason for low high end grunt, along with the 160nm torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
On second thoughts I fail to understand your logic when it comes to Tata A$$. For Indica Vista & Punto both, the engine in question is the 1.3 Multijet which is also there in Ritz & Swift. Which means all the issues that you have with your current Tata cars will not be there anymore and if you won't have those issues, you wont have to visit A$$ as often as you do with your current cars.
On the upside, the Indica Vista will be cheaper to buy and run, has more space (make that much more space), will be better off on the highway as far as straightline stability is concerned, will in all probability be safer in the event of a crash (Punto even more so) and you have A$$ which in event of part failures (if any) will replace them no question asked. The same holds true for Punto as well except for the price.
Quite frankly I find your A$$ reason to be over the top. You may want to think again?

Test drove Ritz yesterday while shopping for a car for my friend. Overall very nice to drive but so is Vista and has better quality interiors to boot. Yes, i found the interiors in Vista to be of better quality.
I have a 2002 indica, with a Tata 1.4 IDI engine. The car has done 115000kms. Till date I have never had engine problems. Alternator has failed, starter motor has failed, AC has failed, power steering has failed and ditto for small stuff like glow plug timer etc., and indicator switches. Now if Tata is putting the swift alternator, AC, switches, power steering etc., I will buy it, but tata is only putting the engine. I doubt any modern diesel engine, whether tata 1.4 or fiat 1.3 or hyundai 1.4 will be the trouble spot. Trouble comes from auxillary component. It does not matter if a 1.3 liter 90bhp engine is sitting inside the vista. If the starter motor fails, it will not start.

And I already have 2 vehicles from Tata, I want to spread my *** liabilities. Not put all my eggs in one basket.
So after the new car comes, the safari will be TASS dependent, and the new car will be on some other A.S.S.'s mercy
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Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
What you say is true akhilesh but guys like me who have had previous bad experiances with TATA will never go for it again.I owned an indica dls too and i had issues from the second week itself.Niggling problems which kept cropping up again and again.True,the quadrajet technology may be leagues ahead but iam paranoid about TATA now.who wants sleepless nights buddy?
You got it spot on. When you have a bad experience why would you not want to go to some other mfr.
Whats the guarantee.
Sure, there is no guarantee with maruti, but maruti has not caused sleepless nights yet. So unless Tata makes me an offer like, "If your car breaks down we will give you a new car", its no Tata for the small car.
And thats why we are not going to Tata showroom, because we may end up buying the vista. Our middle class values push us towards value, and the value which a vista gives is unparalleled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant_vas View Post
Hi,
if you go to watch a movie in a theater and u get one of the seat which is not comfortable and the AC isn't blowing properly, am sure you would keep off from that theater for some time. lets assume that the owner of the theater renovates the hall and advertises it all over the place, wouldn't you be tempted to go and check out that theater once again??

with service centers its the same. why only TATA, am sure even with maruti, if you have had a bad experience, am sure you wont mind visiting them again (numerous phone calls later).

you folks should at least go and check out the cars, the horror stories about TATA and FIAT *** are exaggerated. but the ground reality isn't that bad these days, at least not here in Bangalore!
You are speaking as if we are non Tata owners, and we are staying away from Tata based on other stories.
You are wrong. I go to Tata service centers every now and then. Its good, but after having two troublesome vehicles from Tata why should I trust somebody's word that the quality out of the factory has improved?
Two months ago I met a safari owner, His car is giving electrical problems. The car had done 2000kms in one month, and on a highway trip they were stranded on the highway. TASS sent a recovery vehicle free of cost, which is very nice. Very few other mfrs do that. I was sent a recovery technician by an overnight bus in a remote village in HP. No charge. All parts changed under warranty with no charge.
Most Tata bashers and Tata lovers miss the point. The problem with TATA used to be the customer care and After sales service. This is no longer the case. Their TASS centers now are among the most customer friendly. I have experienced this personally. The problem is with the stuff which comes out of the factory. No amount of good customer care can compensate for incompetent quality departments.
A car is more than a quadrajet engine. There are lots of things like power windows, AC, starter motors, Alternators, sensors which are important in a car.
Till you show me a news report that tata has changed the suppliers of axillary components in the last two months after frequent failures, I find it hard to believe that they have changed.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 6th July 2011 at 11:25.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:24   #82
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... Now thats very nice, but it also saps more power. That could be part of the reason for low high end grunt, along with the 160nm torque

...
Don't they mention torque at the engine shaft only (rather than at the wheels) with the AC off?

I guess AC wil reduce the torque below the 160 you have mentioned.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:26   #83
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Don't they mention torque at the engine shaft only (rather than at the wheels) with the AC off?

I guess AC wil reduce the torque below the 160 you have mentioned.
No AC will not reduce any torque or engine power. Engine will produce the same output at crankshaft. It will just use some of the power for itself, so less power will reach the wheels.
The 160 number is for the crankshaft, not the power/torque at the wheels.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:34   #84
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ok tsk1979 i understand what you are saying and it makes sense too. In the swift the turbo comes on at 80/5th gear (that would be 2000 rpm). Since the turbo comes on at this point the feel of the power(rather surge) is going to be more than it would be in the Figo. In the Figo you will have linear acceleration and not the surge that you get in swift at 80. The downside is that you will not have this surge if you press the accelerator at say 60-70 if you are in 5th gear. You will have to downshift. In the figo the turbo range is from around 1600 rpm atleast and hence the percieved difference.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:41   #85
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Most Tata bashers and Tata lovers miss the point. The problem with TATA used to be the customer care and After sales service. This is no longer the case. Their TASS centers now are among the most customer friendly. I have experienced this personally. The problem is with the stuff which comes out of the factory. No amount of good customer care can compensate for incompetent quality departments.
A car is more than a quadrajet engine. There are lots of things like power windows, AC, starter motors, Alternators, sensors which are important in a car.
Till you show me a news report that tata has changed the suppliers of axillary components in the last two months after frequent failures, I find it hard to believe that they have changed.
@tsk i cannot show any news item about TATA cars coming out with improved quality from the factory but all i can say is that i have not had any trouble with my Vista over the last 2 years (ODO - 46K Kms). Touch wood. Only routine service done.

As you rightly said it is a total VFM and much more.
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Old 6th July 2011, 11:47   #86
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No AC will not reduce any torque or engine power. Engine will produce the same output at crankshaft. It will just use some of the power for itself, so less power will reach the wheels.
The 160 number is for the crankshaft, not the power/torque at the wheels.

I think I didn't write what I meant to - I meant turning AC on will reduce the torque delivery to the wheel further (not that AC will reduce engine's own torque). - basically if you measure the torque at the clutch (engine side) it will be less than 160 with the AC on (and close to 160 with the AC off)

Last edited by vina : 6th July 2011 at 11:49.
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Old 6th July 2011, 12:55   #87
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Regarding Figo power delivery, it may be very nice stand alone, but I took TD of two figos, including one brand new one. I took TD of ritz twice and swift once, and the TDs were done back to back. both me and my wife felt that in the city it was excellent, but as soon as you hit 80s, it tapers off more than in the Ritz/Swift.
I had been doing many highway runs out of the state in TamilNadu where the roads are splendid and I feel that highway performance till 120kmph is acceptable. Agreed that the turbo push like in swift is not available but overtaking @ 80kmph does not require a gear shift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
As for the gearshift, its nicer than the swift. However, Ritz has an added benefit of high placed gearshift. Since both me and my wife are fairly tall, we have a habit of driving with seats pushed back. In such a scenario, in most cars, for gear shifting left arm has to stretch. However in ritz, its not so. Most people find such gear shifts not very nice, but we just loved the shifter. In absolute smoothness, the gearshift of the figo is indeed better,
Personal Choices. Absolutely Agree. Long Drives in the Ritz might tire you. As for a figo long drives are something you will look forward to. i am sure many will vouch for this. Ritz is good city car but not really a long distance tourer. You will just come out tired.

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and for 4.94L we get similar features to 5.20L ritz.
Exactly what I tried to say. There is truly no competition feature by feature. For instance the bluetooth stereo on figo, calls on the fly, stream songs from mobile. In a Ritz you can dream about it or buy an expensive after market option.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But the following things put figo out of the question
1. Highway drivability
2. Ford A.S.S are far few in number than Maruti
3. Their 60K maintenance plan costs 45000rs. This means company anticipates a high running cost over 60,000kms. Now company may be intending to make a nice profit out of maintenance plans, but this shakes your confidence.
POint 1 discussed above
Point 2 agreed
Point 3 I dd not know there was such a plan for figo. Will check.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Regarding speed etc., the Figo salesman says that the Figo AC uses a much larger compressor than most other hatches. Now thats very nice, but it also saps more power. That could be part of the reason for low high end grunt, along with the 160nm torque
I have got comments from many friends(some of them hardcore fiat fans) telling me that the compressor does not really seem to affect the engine performance at all compared to the chill it delivers. this is true especially in the city drive. 1.3 MJD engine bogged down with the Ac and the turbo lag when the Figo just zips ahead.

@tsk I feel you should try the TDing a figo once again.
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Old 6th July 2011, 12:59   #88
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Tanveer, any feedback on the Nissan Micra diesel? And what news of the mini-Xylo that was supposed to be launched around this time?
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Old 6th July 2011, 13:44   #89
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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
ok tsk1979 i understand what you are saying and it makes sense too. In the swift the turbo comes on at 80/5th gear (that would be 2000 rpm). Since the turbo comes on at this point the feel of the power(rather surge) is going to be more than it would be in the Figo. In the Figo you will have linear acceleration and not the surge that you get in swift at 80. The downside is that you will not have this surge if you press the accelerator at say 60-70 if you are in 5th gear. You will have to downshift. In the figo the turbo range is from around 1600 rpm atleast and hence the percieved difference.
Whatever the reason, in the end a car should be nice to drive from an individual's perspective. Figo is not "there"
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Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
@tsk i cannot show any news item about TATA cars coming out with improved quality from the factory but all i can say is that i have not had any trouble with my Vista over the last 2 years (ODO - 46K Kms). Touch wood. Only routine service done.

As you rightly said it is a total VFM and much more.
You are very lucky! Congrats. I also have a 3 year old Tata vehicle. So vehicle to vehicle Tata is different, right?
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I had been doing many highway runs out of the state in TamilNadu where the roads are splendid and I feel that highway performance till 120kmph is acceptable. Agreed that the turbo push like in swift is not available but overtaking @ 80kmph does not require a gear shift.
I think you adapt to all driving styles once you own the vehicle. Many people I know cannot stand the safari's driving manners.

Quote:
Personal Choices. Absolutely Agree. Long Drives in the Ritz might tire you. As for a figo long drives are something you will look forward to. i am sure many will vouch for this. Ritz is good city car but not really a long distance tourer. You will just come out tired.
Don't think so. the lumbar support and shoulder support was good. Thats all matters. It was much better than what we have in the indica.

Quote:
Exactly what I tried to say. There is truly no competition feature by feature. For instance the bluetooth stereo on figo, calls on the fly, stream songs from mobile. In a Ritz you can dream about it or buy an expensive after market option.
What bluetooth?
I am talking about EXI. That gets a 2000rs mp3 player

Quote:
POint 1 discussed above
Point 2 agreed
Point 3 I dd not know there was such a plan for figo. Will check.
many such plans exist

Quote:
I have got comments from many friends(some of them hardcore fiat fans) telling me that the compressor does not really seem to affect the engine performance at all compared to the chill it delivers. this is true especially in the city drive. 1.3 MJD engine bogged down with the Ac and the turbo lag when the Figo just zips ahead.

@tsk I feel you should try the TDing a figo once again.
Not again, 3 figo TDs? I guess I will buy a "rattle snake" as some people call marutis!
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Tanveer, any feedback on the Nissan Micra diesel? And what news of the mini-Xylo that was supposed to be launched around this time?
Micra is close to 6L and hardly any dealerships are there in non major towns.
No idea about the Xylo. I did not even inquire. It makes the scorpio look pretty, just imagine!
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Old 6th July 2011, 13:49   #90
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I have a 2002 indica, with a Tata 1.4 IDI engine. The car has done 115000kms. Till date I have never had engine problems. Alternator has failed, starter motor has failed, AC has failed, power steering has failed and ditto for small stuff like glow plug timer etc., and indicator switches. Now if Tata is putting the swift alternator, AC, switches, power steering etc., I will buy it, but tata is only putting the engine. I doubt any modern diesel engine, whether tata 1.4 or fiat 1.3 or hyundai 1.4 will be the trouble spot. Trouble comes from auxillary component. It does not matter if a 1.3 liter 90bhp engine is sitting inside the vista. If the starter motor fails, it will not start.
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Every time the indica starts in the morning, half the local wildlife goes dead, and window panes shatter.
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You will have to drag me to a Tata dealership kicking and screaming, I already have two.
I dont want to argue but both the above aren't issue with the new Indica Vista. The difference between Vista and Indica is more than day and night. Why I am saying this? Because my cousin has one, from the initial batch and apart from ECU upgrade to solve the A/C problem he hadn't had to visit Tata A$$ for any other reason.
The car has done more than 55k kilometers and is quite badly abused. Even on the forum we haven't had too many issues being reported for the Vista.

All said the Maruti's aren't without issues too. There have been reports of weak clutch, busted turbo's with Swift and the rattles are taken for granted. All said its your wish. I haven't burned my hands with a Tata yet and might have the same thought process if I were you.

All the best for your next purchase.
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