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Old 20th July 2011, 12:31   #61
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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Originally Posted by rm_arjuna View Post
where can we source these warn lights in hyd. looking for some good options for my scorpio.
Doubt if they are available in Hyderabad. Even the Warn dealer in India in Bangalore doesn't have them. We'd have to order them through ebay or through the local India dealer.

Another nice upgrade to the Thar would be these KC headlamp replacements. They look fabulous and have an almost white light beam

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Old 20th July 2011, 13:01   #62
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

The Thar looks awesome! Congratulations...
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Old 20th July 2011, 16:23   #63
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

@DKG, the more I look at ur Thar, the more admiration grows. The color of ur Thar and the overall image is spell-bounding. The appeal of the vehicle is something like "Disciplined, Elegant and Authoritative" and somewhat "you don't wanna mess with".

Congrats!!!
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Old 20th July 2011, 19:27   #64
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

Congratulations DKG !! The Thar looks brilliant in the Rocky Beige Color, so much so that one tends to get taken in with just that & forget about many other not so perfect things.

Do keep us updated with the Thar's behaviour !




Cheers
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Old 20th July 2011, 19:31   #65
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

[quote]Fantastic. It really is such a gorgeous colour !! We must meet and go for a drive once he gets his Thar !![quote]
Absolutely, would love to! I had the same in my mind. Being new to 4x4 (we know zilch about 4x4 in reality, just went by the boyish urge to own a 4x4), we might probably pick a trick or 2 from you.
Quote:
My garage has been in a mess on account of some major construction activity very close to our house. Now that its all over I need to get my garage organised and finish the camper. Basically I need to finish the interiors and lighting etc. I think post monsoon will get down to it and complete that too.
Have been following that thread closely for sometime now as I have similar plans
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Old 25th July 2011, 17:59   #66
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

Its nearing three weeks since I took delivery of the Thar and have been using the car daily. I guess I can go a bit deeper into my experience with the car. In successive posts will attempt to cover issues related to different aspects of the car and its behavior/function.

The body and paintwork

In my opinion the design brief for Jeep bodies has always been minimalist, low weight and utilitarian. I don't think safety was ever part of the equation. The 540/550 body shell which the Thar uses owes its design to the Jeep CJ5 and seems to echo the same design brief. In that sense the Thar body is light, and utilitarian.

Its when you factor in passenger safety and aerodynamics that you become aware of the shortcomings of the Thar body.

In today's environment and the way the car will be used chances are the factors of safety and aerodynamics will become major causes for concern, especially the former.

On that score the Thar body will fail to meet world standards and maynot be able to pass any of the recognised crash tests like NCAP etc. I am not qualified to comment and don't know if the chassis meets those standards as well.

In all fairness to the car we'd have to view it at best as a four wheeled motorcycle and expect minimal crash test safety from the body structure. One upgrade which would enhance passenger safety would be a strong roll cage. In the event of a roll over it would then add some form of structural protection to its occupants.

The seat belts provided are a postive feature but there are none for the rear seats. Perhaps when the roll cage upgrade is done you can factor in three point after market seat belts for a forward facing seat.

The body stampings of the 540 shell have seen better days and its evident that the bare shell going into the paint shop is far from perfection in painting surfaces. There are waves and dents and dimples galore and since on a production line you cannot fuss with correcting these imperfections the Thar comes off the assembly line with all its body panel imperfections in gloss.

Now is that a huge turn off? If you look at the overall perspective of a Jeep body painted in modern paints with striking colours the car looks very attractive. The paint materials are top notch so the 540 body really never looked so good. If you like the shape of old Jeeps then the Thar is its best iteration. Unless ofcourse you correct all blemishes in the paintshop and recoat it. Then you could aspire for a perfect finish. But that's too early to contemplate on a new Thar.

Further the IFS and radials make the ride so much more superior to what you could have experienced on a Jeep that you tend to drive the car like any modern sedan or hatchback. Basically you tend not to slow down for common potholes, ridges/ruts you encounter on most Indian urban roads. On the Thar the shocks get absorbed perfectly by the mechanicals and the chassis but you can tell the body struggles. If you try to go through a rough patch without slowing down a harsh knocking sound emanates from the body which could be the doors within their frame or some other part that cannot absorb and flexes violently. So when you start using the Thar and don't enjoy the harsh knocking sounds from an old Jeep body with doors you simply learn to either slow down or avoid ruts in the road.

I personally am not too bothered about this as I understand a modern high quality body for the Thar would have meant the price to shoot up to minimum 10 lacs and out of my budget.

So at 7.5 lacs for the Thar I am fine with a body that needs a little sympathetic driving

The greatest plus point of the body however is its looks. I am a big fan of retro and love the way the CJ5 looked and the Thar looks awesome to me. I can live with the slight changes I have to make with my driving style to ensure the body does not cry out loud.
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Old 25th July 2011, 20:02   #67
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

DKG, you sure seem to be on a roll! Harley first and then Thar! Just finished reading your Kashmir travelogue. Great to know you are planning a trip back soon, with the Thar.

Hearty congratulations for both and now eagerly waiting to see your planned mods executed on this boy.
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Old 25th July 2011, 21:03   #68
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

@DKG,

Congrats on the purchase of your new vehicle. Hope it serves you the way you intend it to.

I am skeptical though, as there are contradictions in your statements from the beginning itself.

You say you are ready for the M&M prescribed method of A/C installation, which means removal of heater function, and at the same time you say you are looking forward to using the heater on your North trips. Since the A/C fitting work has been going at M&M, I would imagine, for 2-3 years, at least one of your requirements is going to be on hold for a while.
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post

I personally am not too bothered about this as I understand a modern high quality body for the Thar would have meant the price to shoot up to minimum 10 lacs and out of my budget.
I realize your relationship with some of the creators of the Thar might influence your review, but I would hope you refrain from propagating a myth created by M&M and its cronies that the Thar costs so much to create. There is no fathomable reason for the Thar to cost as much as it does if you see the components involved except the ugly truth that M&M wants to maximize profit on every unit sold. This will be justified by the low volume argument, whether the Thar sells 100 or 10,000. Surely M&M is looking for volumes from the govt., and the highly robust rural market, so I just do not buy that argument.

I sincerely hope that you enjoy your vehicle to the fullest, but do wish you would be honest in what you have got for 7.5 lakhs, in the current automotive environment. Just the fact that there are no competitors does not make the product good.

Cheers.
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Old 25th July 2011, 22:58   #69
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

DKG - took delivery of the Thar for my colleague, last Thursday. It was every bit the experience you had and plan to post an ownership review shortly.

Now a question to DKG and other jeep gurus. With the absence of HT, we are a little worried about theft of the vehicle and a few other components, especially the spare wheel (with alloy). How do you suggest we secure this? I had suggested a gear lever lock to secure the vehicle and a suitcase chain kind of thingy for the spare wheel, with which we can lock it to the rear door. Thoughts?

Last edited by ExtremeTorque : 25th July 2011 at 23:00.
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Old 26th July 2011, 06:48   #70
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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Originally Posted by ExtremeTorque View Post
With the absence of HT, we are a little worried about theft of the vehicle and a few other components, especially the spare wheel (with alloy). How do you suggest we secure this? I had suggested a gear lever lock to secure the vehicle and a suitcase chain kind of thingy for the spare wheel, with which we can lock it to the rear door. Thoughts?
My thoughts are simple - DO NOT TAKE IT TO PLACES WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT ALONE - UNATTENDED to.
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Old 26th July 2011, 10:16   #71
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
there are contradictions in your statements from the beginning itself.
I would prefer the heater is allowed to remain while installing the a/c. Between the two obviously the a/c has more value given I live in Hyderabad. I have been asked to wait till the kit and install are fully sorted out

Quote:
I realize your relationship with some of the creators of the Thar might influence your review
Really ?? that's interesting !!

My review of the car is based on my ownership and usage of the car over the past three weeks. I do respect BD and Spike and the rest of the team and have great regard for their talent. Especially so as I happen to now use their creation daily and experience their convictions/design decisions in practice

I have never purchased a product because of what others think of it. My decisions have always hinged on my personal assessment of a product and whether it fits into my spectrum of preferences.

To ascribe my opinions to association with others is totally inaccurate.

Quote:
There is no fathomable reason for the Thar to cost as much as it does if you see the components involved
Ok for a moment lets agree with you that they are over charging for the Thar. Going by your conviction I have a plan. Get me a brand new 2.5 litre CRDi engine with gearbox and the ecu, a brand new chassis, all the suspension parts, differentials with complete hub components, a 4x4 auxillary gearbox, both the prop shafts, a power steering assembly at a "fathomably reasonable" price and I will buy it. What are we talking? 2.5 lacs? or 3 lacs? What's your idea of reasonable costing for all these components?

Because if you are going to come back to me and say it will cost me 5 lacs plus for these items then factoring in the cost of a new body, paintwork, tyres, wiring, lights, dash, seats, steering, horns, wiper motor and wipers, glass, carpeting, rims, soft top, top frame, and misc to finish the car off, not to mention the impossibility of registering a home grown offroader legally, I reckon we would end up spending close to 8 lacs or even 9.

Prove your point that the Thar is over priced by getting me all these components at under 4.5 and I will accept your contention.

Quote:
wish you would be honest in what you have got for 7.5 lakhs, in the current automotive environment.
I thought I was being honest. The Thar in my humble opinion is a brilliant offering from Mahindra and priced at under 7.5 lacs onroad its a VFM proposition to me. I honestly and sincerely believe this to be so. Oh, and as they say, I've put my hard earned money where my mouth is

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Originally Posted by ExtremeTorque View Post
It was every bit the experience you had and plan to post an ownership review shortly.
Delighted to hear this. Lets plan on meeting up sometime !

Quote:
With the absence of HT, we are a little worried about theft of the vehicle and a few other components, especially the spare wheel (with alloy). How do you suggest we secure this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
DO NOT TAKE IT TO PLACES WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT ALONE - UNATTENDED to.
I think Headers is right in suggesting we just be careful about where we park the car. In the same way we need to be careful about a motorcycle or a convertible sports car the Thar too like all other Jeeps since 1942 has to be accorded the same care.

Ofcourse your long term solution is a hardtop if you cannot retain the car safely as a soft top and as for the nuts you get special wheel nuts that cannot be undone without a special tool. All expensive alloy wheels come with these nuts. Perhaps you could explore that option

Last edited by DKG : 26th July 2011 at 10:20.
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Old 26th July 2011, 13:23   #72
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Its nearing three weeks since I took delivery of the Thar and have been using the car daily. I guess I can go a bit deeper into my experience with the car.
Dear DKG

Excellent post - Well one question. Now that you have experience with the Thar. If you were to upgrade the tyres to AT profile - what size and which ones would you go for ?

And by the way will the AT tyres add any value ?

Cheers
Carrot

Last edited by carrot_eater : 26th July 2011 at 13:35. Reason: -Typo
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Old 26th July 2011, 15:13   #73
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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If you were to upgrade the tyres to AT profile - what size and which ones would you go for ?
I have seen someone upgrade to 33 inchers and I feel its over the top on a Thar and will foil with the fenders and basically end up being too big a set of boots for the Thar's shoes. Someone else who has been modding Thars mentioned 31's are the max size a Thar could handle comfortably without the need to alter the fenders.

I basically feel that the safe upper limit of upgrade on any car usually is 20 oversize. So the Thar comes with a 235/70 so 255/65 would be the most one can comfortably go upto with no significant variation in the car's behavior except for added lateral grip and a slight heaviness to the steering

BD recommended 245's. So a 245/70 (height increase 7 mm) or 255/65 max (negligible height increase) would be the ideal upgrade. A 255/70 if available would actually increase the ride height by 14mm and that's something you may not want to do as it compromises the handling of the car onroad. Unless ofcourse you are willing to tradeoff a little of the high speed stability for improved ground clearance offroad.

If you go offroad regularly as in beaches or trails a AT tyre would definitely add value as it has enhanced traction. But as you veer more offroad the tradeoff increases as onroad traction goes down. They are inversely proportional.

The Mud terrain tyres or Rock crawling tyres are extreme tyres with severly compromised onroad performance and I would not recommend a MT tyre for long distance highway driving. Besides being a softer rubber compound it will wear out much faster onroad and prove to be too loud for comfort too.

As the events in India progress in the level of difficulty they factor in, we might need to cart specialised offroad tyres to the venue and change if you want to do the circuits with enhanced traction for your car.

Last edited by DKG : 26th July 2011 at 15:14.
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Old 26th July 2011, 16:15   #74
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

first of all congrats for the Thar - and yes it does look really aswesome in rocky beige.

This is a thread after my own heart - i have been admiring Thar for sometime now, but with all the threads on Thar and the nitpicking - i was always in 2 minds about it.
This thread has given me some comfort (i am not the only one )

Also, your post about interiors being nicer is something that i also felt when i went to see Thar again last weekend - and i was thinking that it was due to the silver color..

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2440639 (Considering the Thar CRDe)

Thanks again for the wonderful review - pls keep this thread alive as you modd your Thar and keep on pasting pics.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 26th July 2011 at 16:24. Reason: only 2 smileys per post please. Thanks for understanding.!
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Old 26th July 2011, 16:39   #75
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar: How I made sure I didn't lose the forest for the trees !!

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
I would prefer the heater is allowed to remain while installing the a/c. Between the two obviously the a/c has more value given I live in Hyderabad. I have been asked to wait till the kit and install are fully sorted out
My faith in people's talent would start to run very thin if they are not able to figure out something as simple as HVAC system in more than three years. Good luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Ok for a moment lets agree with you that they are over charging for the Thar. Going by your conviction I have a plan. Get me a brand new 2.5 litre CRDi engine with gearbox and the ecu, a brand new chassis, all the suspension parts, differentials with complete hub components, a 4x4 auxillary gearbox, both the prop shafts, a power steering assembly at a "fathomably reasonable" price and I will buy it. What are we talking? 2.5 lacs? or 3 lacs? What's your idea of reasonable costing for all these components?

Because if you are going to come back to me and say it will cost me 5 lacs plus for these items then factoring in the cost of a new body, paintwork, tyres, wiring, lights, dash, seats, steering, horns, wiper motor and wipers, glass, carpeting, rims, soft top, top frame, and misc to finish the car off, not to mention the impossibility of registering a home grown offroader legally, I reckon we would end up spending close to 8 lacs or even 9.

Prove your point that the Thar is over priced by getting me all these components at under 4.5 and I will accept your contention.
Strangely your reply sounds very similar to Mr. Dharbhar's in another thread. I'll tell you how.
I ask you this: Does the manufacturer pay the same price that you would as a third party? Any estimation of costs you do will be erroneous because if it cost the manufacturer the same as what they sell it you for, no manufacturer would every survive. So, I say all your figures are wrong. I dont know what the right figures are, but they do not in any "fathomable" way add up to 7.5 lakhs unless you figure in major profit margins for every component.

Why do I have worry about cost of components anyways? Or are you saying only those who were considering building their own jeep should consider the Thar as a vehicle?

When I said similiar reply to Mr. Dharbhar, this is what I mean. Why are comparisons made with neighborhood mechanic and mayapuri when you talk about Thar? Is it because there is no other 4X4 available in the market? Does that give M&M the right to fleece customers as they fit?

Why not consider the vehicle for just what it is, a vehicle. Do the doors of this vehicle rattle? yes. Do the fittings fall off? yes. Is there a working HVAC? no. Is having a cobbled together 4x4 system enough to ignore all these facts?

Why is it that when you evaluate/review a Jazz, Fabia, Punto, etc, etc, nobody tries to add up the components and say this is VFM or not? Because doing so is nonsense. It only makes sense if you are trying to make a Jazz/Punto, etc, etc by yourself at a roadside mechanic.

So, just purely based on the argument that one's alternatives are Mayapuri/roadside mech., the Thar is great VFM? Sure.

But as a vehicle manufactured by a supposedly world class company? NO. Not as long as greed dominates.

Most world renowned companies like MB, Honda, Toyota, made their name by letting their product speak for themselves. I dont think any one of those companies were led by people who cared about making it to any Richest list, rather the pursuit of engineering. Anyways, I digress.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

I thought I was being honest. The Thar in my humble opinion is a brilliant offering from Mahindra and priced at under 7.5 lacs onroad its a VFM proposition to me. I honestly and sincerely believe this to be so. Oh, and as they say, I've put my hard earned money where my mouth is
You are entitled to your opinion, and I dont question it's honesty. But, as a distinguished member of an automotive forum, for the benefit of all readers, I feel that it should only be fair to entertain some other realities that truly reflect the vehicle for what it is: A factory made Mayapuri Jeep!

Happy Lifestyling.

Cheers.
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