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Old 21st August 2011, 20:36   #121
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
@OP/MODS: Perhaps with all this talk about T-Fort etc. the title needs to be changed as it is veering away from Y vs C the OP really wanted to share. Now it is Y vs Others???

As per material I have read Yeti is able to deliver up to 90% of power to either axle by its intelligent 4x4 and T-Fort only 50%. Would that mean Yeti is able to get out of situations what TFort cannot because only 50% of power would mean a very low power to weight ratio. Any one who can comment?
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Hope the thread is still what the title says & hasn't become another "Fortuner strength showcase" . Between the Civic & the Yeti, considering the craters that the thread starter has to contend with on a regular basis, I'd recommend the Yeti, provided one can live with its looks.


Akshay, I do agree with you here. The number of threads where I see this happening is increasing by leaps & bounds Sometimes I'm reminded of the earlier Scorpio vs Safari debates, in this case, Fortuner vs Anyone!
Hi Sudev,
Sorry about the OT posts in comparison to the T-Fort! We shall now get back to the topic and stick to only relevant details only on either of these two!
To explain on the Yeti's Haldex 4x4 mechanism, it is a combination of clutches on both the front and rear axles, plus a central clutch for the split between drive to the front and rear axles. Using this mechanism, it can apportion any major part of the torque to even any one wheel or axle. This attached pic shows the torque split in different conditions (Courtesy: India Skoda Yeti brochure). This system is electronically controlled and driven by the response or slip detected on each of the wheels, by comparing the rpms of the wheels.
Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)-yeti4x4.jpg

There is also an EDL, Electronic Differential lock which functions by using the braking effect on the wheels to keep the Rpms same on different wheels.
The benefit of this system is that it is an adaptive system, and very easy for inexperienced users and takes charge automatically. One of the major benefits of this system is very good fuel efficiency in city conditions, as it behaves like a FWD for most of the time.The limitation however is that imagine a condition where there is slippage on all four wheels - here the system will try all possible combinations, yet all four wheels will slip. In Off road mode, it will reduce the torque to all the wheels to simulate a Low ratio with EDL to come out of the situation.

But in case of a mechanical 4x4 system, one can slot in 4L and lock the centre differential and inspite of wheelspin, the car will move forward, subject to the tyres getting some amount of grip, which is why MT tyres are required in extreme muddy conditions!
Also, there are a lot of other factors like weight of vehicle, tyre contact patch etc which are also important in extreme conditions.

(Though I am no expert in the area of offroading, I am sharing my engineering perspective and from my experience of having worked with an automobile major, which also makes 4x4 vehicles, even for the army)

Also, regarding the query on how switching TCS would allow higher speed cornering lies in the fast that the TCS system does not allow for high differences in the RPMs of the wheels, and will brake (through the ABS system) few or all of the wheels, which it feels are going at higher RPM than safe conditions. When you corner fast, the outer wheels are going at a higher RPM than the inside wheels, which is why the TCS/ABS will brake it to improve control and handling. If you switch off the TCS, it will allow a greater difference in the rpms of the outer and the inner wheels (with some wheelspin and tyre squealing) and allow faster cornering.

Hi Suman,
Great to see you on my thread, your travelogues are very interesting and have been following them for a long time!

Regards,
Behemoth

Last edited by Behemoth : 21st August 2011 at 20:43.
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Old 21st August 2011, 23:11   #122
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
The limitation however is that imagine a condition where there is slippage on all four wheels - here the system will try all possible combinations, yet all four wheels will slip. In Off road mode, it will reduce the torque to all the wheels to simulate a Low ratio with EDL to come out of the situation.

But in case of a mechanical 4x4 system, one can slot in 4L and lock the centre differential and inspite of wheelspin, the car will move forward, subject to the tyres getting some amount of grip, which is why MT tyres are required in extreme muddy conditions!
If all 4 wheels have no traction, any car should get stuck irrespective of whether it is a Yeti kind of a set up or mechanical 4X4 with central differential locking. And if the condition can be overcome with MT, even Yeti should be able to do that. In slippery conditions Yeti and other softroaders with LSD should be as capable as full blown 4X4. But what could be limiting is the ground clearance where after some amount sinking in to the slush these softroaders will rest on their belly.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 13:20   #123
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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If all 4 wheels have no traction, any car should get stuck irrespective of whether it is a Yeti kind of a set up or mechanical 4X4 with central differential locking. And if the condition can be overcome with MT, even Yeti should be able to do that. In slippery conditions Yeti and other softroaders with LSD should be as capable as full blown 4X4. But what could be limiting is the ground clearance where after some amount sinking in to the slush these softroaders will rest on their belly.
Thanks Guna! The limiting factor of vehicles such as the Yeti is actually its ground clearance, water wading depth, type and size of tyres which will fit. (Even I am struggling to get good AT tyres in the stock size of 215/60 R16.)
The electronic clutch based systems are generally less rugged for extreme conditions, but good for city driving and for driving in slippery icy conditions, like the ones prevalent in Europe in winters.

A mechanical system in extreme conditions will have a predictable response which experienced drivers will be easily able to utilize. Also, Mechanical systems are generally very rugged and are able to take extreme conditions well and continue in these circumstances as long as warranted.

Drive safe!
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Old 22nd August 2011, 16:11   #124
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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@Swananand, Dial staging is a full sweep that the Tacho and Speedo needles do on startup, looks quite neat and is a standard feature on the Audis and high end cars! You can find some videos on youtube if you search for staging.
Aah, so thats what it is. We non technnical people call it the needle sweep . I agree, looks good. You can get that done with the VAG COM. Akki has done it to his Laura.

Glad that you got rid of the ugly appandages. The Yeti is back to its pristine glory! Any new pics/TL of your journey in the Yeti?
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:37   #125
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Aah, so thats what it is. We non technnical people call it the needle sweep . I agree, looks good. You can get that done with the VAG COM. Akki has done it to his Laura.

Glad that you got rid of the ugly appandages. The Yeti is back to its pristine glory! Any new pics/TL of your journey in the Yeti?
Sure Swanand, will definitely will post some pics and travelogues when I get the chance ! But wife simply does not let me take pics of the Yeti on Holiday (she knows its for Team-Bhp that I take pics!) and forces me to concentrate on taking pics of our son and her! The end result is that the cameraman (me) and the Yeti are totally unphotographed on any holiday!
Somehow our wives feel so jealous of our rides and feel insecure if we spend too much time with them!!
Is it just me or all TBHP members??
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:45   #126
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Sure Swanand, will definitely will post some pics and travelogues when I get the chance ! But wife simply does not let me take pics of the Yeti on Holiday (she knows its for Team-Bhp that I take pics!) and forces me to concentrate on taking pics of our son and her! The end result is that the cameraman (me) and the Yeti are totally unphotographed on any holiday!
Somehow our wives feel so jealous of our rides and feel insecure if we spend too much time with them!!
Is it just me or all TBHP members??

. Its the same story in every household. Our member Mdsaab had started a brilliant thread titled "Team-BHP and the wife" (or something like that. Cant remember the exact title). See the amount of input on that thread. Its moved to the best threads section already!

No worries sir, the car in itself is amazing. You just want to see it in amazing locales and keep staring at it. Dont find it odd if I land up in your town and keep admiring the beauties (Cars i.e).
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:28   #127
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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(Even I am struggling to get good AT tyres in the stock size of 215/60 R16.)
Have you checked with Deepak Kataria at Star Wheels (Atul Kataria chowk)?
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:43   #128
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Have you checked with Deepak Kataria at Star Wheels (Atul Kataria chowk)?
Yes, did go to Star Wheels (think I met Deepak only) but he had Yoko AT/S in 215/65 R16, which is almost 3.3% larger in OD than the stock size of 215/60R16. Yoko's AT/S do come internationally in 215/60 R16, but for India market they are not importing this size. Also, Guderian has a friend in Yoko through whom we tried to convince them to get this size in ATS, but guess the demand will be low (Yeti is the only SUV with this specific size), so they are not so keen yet!
Will keep trying.. definitely need a solution soon. The stock Goodyear Excellence tyres are very bad and have suffered sidewall damage (1 tyre on my Yeti) and even on Sushil's Yeti.

Thanks!

Last edited by Behemoth : 26th August 2011 at 15:51.
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Old 26th August 2011, 16:05   #129
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Also, Guderian has a friend in Yoko through whom we tried to convince them to get this size in ATS, but guess the demand will be low (Yeti is the only SUV with this specific size), so they are not so keen yet!
Well, if Deepak can't get them for you, you can rest assured that no one else can. Deepak is a "premium" dealer for Yoko if I can use the term
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Old 26th August 2011, 17:53   #130
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Yes, did go to Star Wheels (think I met Deepak only) but he had Yoko AT/S in 215/65 R16, which is almost 3.3% larger in OD than the stock size of 215/60R16. Yoko's AT/S do come internationally in 215/60 R16, but for India market they are not importing this size. Also, Guderian has a friend in Yoko through whom we tried to convince them to get this size in ATS, but guess the demand will be low (Yeti is the only SUV with this specific size), so they are not so keen yet!
Will keep trying.. definitely need a solution soon. The stock Goodyear Excellence tyres are very bad and have suffered sidewall damage (1 tyre on my Yeti) and even on Sushil's Yeti.

Thanks!
Have you looked at getting a quote from tirerack.com, they carry both Geolander At/S & H/T.
May be you'l can club the order and get a quote. I asked for a quote on 225/55/R17 tyres for yeti from them. Still awaiting response.

Last edited by Invinsible : 26th August 2011 at 17:55.
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:08   #131
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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To explain on the Yeti's Haldex 4x4 mechanism,
Kudos for a great article Behemoth. I was also researching the 4WD / AWD / Fulltime 4WD, and came across this great article which provides extra insight - What is the difference between full time four wheel drive, all wheel drive versus automaticall wheel drive (on-demand system) ; Worth a read. Also found a nice article already going on about 4WD's, on TBhp here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...-lsd-suvs.html (Center Differential and LSD in SUVs)

Last edited by dkaile : 26th August 2011 at 18:15.
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:14   #132
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Have you looked at getting a quote from tirerack.com, they carry both Geolander At/S & H/T.
May be you'l can club the order and get a quote. I asked for a quote on 225/55/R17 tyres for yeti from them. Still awaiting response.
Hi Invinsible,
Not tried from Tirerack yet. Do they ship to India? Tried with another online portal Pitlane, but the cost of shipping was coming 1.5x the cost of the tyres, and the landed cost of each tyre was coming to around 12k, including customs duty 27%. This was way too high, so did not consider again. For comparison, the Yoko ATS in 215/65 R 16 were available in India for 8200 per tyre when I last enquired. Lets hope Yoko does get the stock size eventually for us. Larger than stock tyres will also not fit in the spare wheel well, so that is another issue to consider!

Thanks Dkaile! Great article and is very insightful. Even I have The same view on mechanical 4x4 systems. Incidentally, if you see all the army vehicles, they all use mechanical systems and also have multiple driven axles (3 and sometimes even 4). They are simply amazing to watch and they can practically climb over obstacles even 1.5 metres in height! They just keep on going anywhere. Anyway I would not want to deviate off topic too much and we can start another thread on that!

Drive safe,
Behemoth

Last edited by Behemoth : 26th August 2011 at 18:26.
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Old 26th August 2011, 19:44   #133
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Originally Posted by Behemoth

Sure Swanand, will definitely will post some pics and travelogues when I get the chance ! But wife simply does not let me take pics of the Yeti on Holiday (she knows its for Team-Bhp that I take pics!) and forces me to concentrate on taking pics of our son and her! The end result is that the cameraman (me) and the Yeti are totally unphotographed on any holiday!
Somehow our wives feel so jealous of our rides and feel insecure if we spend too much time with them!!
Is it just me or all TBHP members??
LOL! You too eh.
Yes we all pretty much go through the same thing.
But somehow me manage to click a few snaps of the ride atleast.
If proving too hard, carry a spare memory card. Only shoot your car pics on that card and keep the family.ones on a separate one. This sort of helps.
More on the wife on the other thread.
Team BHP and our Wives.
Hope to see you there.
Thanks Swanand for the kind words.
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Old 26th August 2011, 21:25   #134
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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I was also researching the 4WD / AWD / Fulltime 4WD...
One more thread for you to go through - this one (Driving all four wheels: how is it done?).
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Old 26th August 2011, 22:45   #135
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Default Re: Battle of the Unequals : Skoda Yeti vs. Honda Civic (10,000 km driven)

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Fully agree on the boot space and I wish it were more! Most of the time I remove the parcel shelf and use it like that. There is even a space to keep the parcel shelf in the car behind the rear seats.
You mean there is a provision provided for this purpose? Or are you just referring to the fact that there is enough space to stash in the parcel shelf after removing it?
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