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Old 14th August 2011, 20:58   #16
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Just my 2 cents. The Freelander is a phenomenal vehicle. I have driven it extensively, over all kinds of terrain. Loose soil, sand, 3' water, open farmlands, undulating surfaces & all else !! It CANNOT beat the Pajero, but having said that I can say that it will do most things a Pajero would in total comfort, with all creature comforts, except it will cost twice as much (the HSE) If you buy the base model without the fancy Panoramic Sunroof, that is about 10-12 more than the Pajero..

But the one thing that I must say is that it is full of electronics, hence if it feels out of breath in Leh - Ladakh. You are pretty much on your own. Though it may not need any assistance per se, but who knows.



Cheers

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 14th August 2011 at 21:00.
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Old 14th August 2011, 21:25   #17
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

i have been in situations where there was no progress backward or forward without low range. like the time my vehicle stalled in a stream at 15,000 feet, stuck in rocks under the water, night coming on, stream level rising rapidly. Or the time when i was fording a deep fast flowing stream that lifted the rear end of the vehicle and started to rotate it around, with the water plunging down the mountain side not more than 20 feet away. in both cases, low range provided mobility forward to drag the vehicle free of the obstructions.

Maybe the freelander has so much torque that it doesn't need low range. But I don't want to find out at the wrong place and the wrong time that I need low range and don't have it.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Freelander and feel embarrassed to refuse it after your enthusiasm for it, but "to have or not to have low range" is a question that I will not open just to be bring the Freelander into consideration.

Last edited by Harbir : 14th August 2011 at 21:46. Reason: grammatical error corrected
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Old 14th August 2011, 21:43   #18
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Well, like I said, if you are in need of a proper serious off roader, the Pajero/Montero it should be. To match the Pajero/Montero, you would probably have to go upto the Discovery. But unlike in the international market, the Discovery is way costlier in India.

But, overall, as a balance between off-roading capabilities and car like comfort, the Freelander is a better bet than the Montero. But it doesnt seem to fit your requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
But the one thing that I must say is that it is full of electronics, hence if it feels out of breath in Leh - Ladakh. You are pretty much on your own. Though it may not need any assistance per se, but who knows.
Ricky, could you elaborate, why having electronics are a disadvantage at high altitudes??

Last edited by julupani : 14th August 2011 at 21:55.
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Old 15th August 2011, 10:45   #19
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Well, like I said, if you are in need of a proper serious off roader, the Pajero/Montero it should be. To match the Pajero/Montero, you would probably have to go upto the Discovery. But unlike in the international market, the Discovery is way costlier in India.

But, overall, as a balance between off-roading capabilities and car like comfort, the Freelander is a better bet than the Montero. But it doesnt seem to fit your requirements.



Ricky, could you elaborate, why having electronics are a disadvantage at high altitudes??


What I am saying is that the Pajero is proven & has no issues at high altitude, for the Freelander one will need to find out (not proven yet)

As for the electronics I am saying that in prespective of the vehicle in totality not specific to high altitude. I am not qualified to comment on high altitude behaviour as I have driven it only here in the northern plains.

The Freelander by any standards is a great vehicle, but I do not know how it is for extreme situations of the kind that Harbir intends to put his vehicle thru.
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Old 15th August 2011, 10:56   #20
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

@harbir - You should now stop comparing and go for the Pajero immediately. What you love is what you should get. You will not be happy in any other vehicle. Life is short, fulfill your dreams...

Last edited by dkaile : 15th August 2011 at 10:58.
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Old 15th August 2011, 11:01   #21
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Ok, but lets not damn electronics, they help a lot, even though I myself love things to be pure mechanical.

Though, I dont see why a vehicle from a pedigreed manufacturer like Land Rover, should be doubted. Also, the Freelander too is a proven vehicle in all kinds of conditions, even though it may not have the pedigree of a Pajero or a Discovery. Its not likeit was launched yesterday, its been around since the mid 90s. Even though we dont specifically know of anybody taking it to the Himalayas, I dont see any reason to doubt that it would be worse, just because of the high altitude. I remember a couple, I think from Greece, doing a world circum-navigation, even passed through India, in a Freelander.

Even the Montero will have its share of electronic 4WD-aids, but we dont doubt that it has lost its abilities. Atleast the electronics wont be affected by the high altitude, they seem to work fine on air-craft, and space-craft as well.

Last edited by julupani : 15th August 2011 at 11:04.
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Old 15th August 2011, 11:19   #22
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Sir

My humble submission is NOT against cars with electronics (I myself own cars today & will own more in future) which are full of electronics. As for your observation of electronics in aircraft !! Well, I think let us limit our discussion to automobiles..Why compare an apple to an orange ?

My ONLY point was the use Harbir intends to put it to, that is why I thought a less complicated, tried & tested vehicle would be a safer bet.

BTW The Freelander 2 happens to be on my shopping list too, so I know what the vehicle can or cannot do.





Cheers
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Old 15th August 2011, 22:08   #23
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

very honestly, my experience in the US with the various vehicles I have owned has been that electronics have introduced a measure a loss of dependability and reliability into vehicles.

in my view, reliability peaked with the late to mid 1990 japanese vehicles prior to the uberelectronification of the automobile. these vehicles are border on the nearly perfect. Millions of units will runout their lifetimes without ever encountering a serious flaw, without ever leaving the owner's ability to get around vulnerable to faults.

but then reliability did decline as cars started to be fitted with complex electronics that were of types that had not had decades of slow refinement. and these complex electronics developed complex modes of failure, rendering them hard to diagnose till complete failure, leaving owners struggling with frustrating intermittent failures that would trouble the owner considerably but could not be predicted so the dealers wouldn't/couldn't fix them.

the japanese vehicles suffered this failure and the europeans suffered it much worse. BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, VWs, JLRs, all were plagued with troublesome electronics, and I believe they still are.

Land Rover especially scores at the bottom of the reliability and dependability studies that companies like JD Power conduct. Mitsubishi doesn't score very high either however, that rating is for its modern range of products (galants and Eclipses, mostly, but also lancers and outlanders), not the pajero or the montero.

no offense to LR fans, but its not a trivial issue. I would be the first to grab a defender or a real ranger rover (not the phone range rover sport), but there is no hiding from the fact that LR/RR reliability statistics are at odds with their purpose of being vehicle for exploring the far wilderness.

if my life depends on the vehicle taking me there and bringing me back, the vehicles of choice remain the less electronified variants of land cruisers and pajeros.
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Old 25th August 2011, 22:54   #24
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Harbir, I just went thru this whole thread and contrary to many views here, i appreciate the decision you have made for the Pajero. Majority of the people here in India buy SUVs/luxury cars not because they need such vehicles but for the image boost, status value, latest product, imposing presence, etc, etc.

In the process, they are more than willing to compromise on ride quality - very important on our road conditions, handling, and other engineering aspects. This is the reason Fortuners and Endys sale so well here despite based on pick up trucks and even after spending 20-25L you dont even get rear disc brakes. And even with so called engine advantage, so many of them are seen cruising at 60-80kmph on highways blocking the fast lanes

After seeing your 'Garage' i get the feeling that you belong to the rare breed here who focuses on function rather than form and image and you have made a great choice with Pajero over other pick up truck suvs as you get a TRUE SUV with best ride quality, good handling, a thoroughly engineered, tried and tested product perfect for your intended use even though engine is not as powerful as the competition and the car is a little overpriced.
Anyway, we are not supposed to race in SUVs on public streets and anything above 120 kmph is not good for any ladder frame SUV's handling capabilities; we can always have fast sedan/coupe for it!
The reason for such a long post from me is that a year ago i was in a similar situation as you are now and reviewed all the Suvs below 30L mark, liked the Pajero most and finally rejected it only for it's engine as per the popular opinion and settled for Safari 4x4 only to regret my decision whenever i see that Pajero!

On the other hand, people here are screaming for your decision to buy a Paj in 2011, i can't imagine the reactions when i will buy mine in 2012
I appreciate your preferences and thinking. Just go for it!
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Old 10th September 2011, 00:29   #25
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Hi Harbir:

I read your review of the Pajero and the Fortuner with immense interest. Must admit I was quite impressed with your observations given that you only did a short test drive of the vehicles.

I own and have driven a Pajero over 19000 kms and agree with most everything that you had to say about the Pajero. Earlier I had the quite capable and reliable Scorpio 2WD which I drove to Ladakh via Kunzum Pass. Comfort was the primary reason for making a switch to Pajero.

During my regular trips to Corbett I have touched 150 on the speedo (142 on GPS) on quite a few occasions and over undulations I find the Pajero more confidence inspiring than my Optra. I have a K&N filter installed and also the diaphragm setting tweaked and I have not found my Pajero lacking in grunt. I like the shorter ratios of the first and second gear because in the jungle they give more confidence. Once I drove all night starting at 12.30 am, reached Corbett at 5.30, did a morning safari in Bijrani (worst roads in all of Corbett), set up a health camp for forest officials and drove all the way to Kalagarh without feeling tired at all. The same view was echoed by my 3 passengers including a 6' 3" guy heavily into body-building. This guy went to the extent of claiming that he found the rear bench even more comfortable than the Innova. The rear bench is not that bad in my view.

I test drove a Fortuner once (also the Endeavour and the X-Trail but no point talking about them) along with my manager near an under construction site on the traffic signal of Paras Hospital in Gurgaon. I had to ask my manager to go slower on a hill made of debris because the Fortuner was pitching badly. He didn't buy one because he was not happy with the brakes at all. He loved the Pajero but for its dated box-type looks. To each his own I guess. As for me, I like the looks of Pajero more than the Fortuner. Also, for the same reason that I preferred the driving position of an Ikon over a Fiesta, I preferred the driving position of a Pajero more. I am short and to see where my right from tire is I do not have to crane my neck much in a Pajero whilst in an Endeavour and Fortuner its was a major exercise.

So what have you finally decided? Check out the new all white Pajero if you, like many others, find the current paint scheme 'hideous' or 'garish'.

Cheers
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Old 29th May 2012, 21:16   #26
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

folks,

I must thank each and everyone of you for your posts, views, comparisons,opinions, et al. I'm in that familiar place where the mind and heart maintain equilibrium and you cant go one way or the other.

Got back from Australia this Jan, where I had done a river crossing in the hilux pick up, rode passenger in a Pathfinder, Rodeo and Patrol. Was hooked onto 'Fortuner'...TDed a few times and then each one of the things written by all of you here dawned upon me slowly. I couldn't think what it could be if not the fortuner! Went down onto Scorpio versus Safari.....quite liked both of them, but there was still a little void left....

I got back today from a TD for a Pajero...including highway and off-road...and boy what a feeling! I dug out this thread....almost as if looking for a 're-assurance' that would tip me the Pajero way. I'm not going to do anymore thread hunts or any more reviews....I 'want ' to just go ahead and pay hte booking amount!

Thanks again to one and all.....

just 1 sticking point is.....how bad is the A.S.S. for Mitsubishi, spares availability etc. Knowing I stil want to go for it, can I live with their levels of A.S.S. How long would a Paj "live"...are they known to live for 300,000 kms and more like the Land Cruisers (i know bad comparison)....but some indicative figure and what to expect would be nice.

Cheers.
Akshay.
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Old 30th May 2012, 08:01   #27
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

I just bought the Pajero SFX. Hankook Dynapro MT tires installed. I was very glad to get these tires after they won the Four Wheeler magazine 2011 mud terrain tire comparison beating out 9 other tires.

Here are some pictures.
Attached Thumbnails
Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour-pajero-9.jpg  

Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour-pajero-8.jpg  

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Old 30th May 2012, 09:36   #28
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

Quote:
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I just bought the Pajero SFX.
Hi Harbir, read this thread today, glad to know your passion for offroading. Congrats for the Pajero. Curious to know, didn't you consider the new Pajero sport? More contemporary, bigger engine, more luxurious and is still a Pajero (though am not an expert to comment on the offroading capabilities of this, but better that you throw some light on it).
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Old 30th May 2012, 10:30   #29
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

no I wasn't very interested in the sport for a variety of reasons, most of which centered around the fact that i view it as an alternative to the Fortuner and not the Pajero SFX and if I was going to buy that kind of vehicle, I saw no reason to choose the Pajero Sport over the Fortuner. Since between the Fortuner and the Pajero SFX I had decided on the SFX, that was the end of the story.

WIth no test drive units available, with 3 to 5 month delivery times, with less legroom for the driver than the fortuner, an engine that doesn't have as much grunt in the bottom and mid as the fortuner, with high prices dictated by the Pajero sport being a CBU for now, and with my aversion to SUVs that have poor visibility forward because of front bulkheads that loom too high in the driver's line of sight, and with a smaller service network than the Toyota, I could see very little reason to buy a Pajero Sport.

If there is a possibility that the Pajero Sport is better off road than the Pajero SFX, I had no opportunity to verify it and I wasn't willing to wait any longer.
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Old 30th May 2012, 11:19   #30
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Default Re: Comparo Test-Drive Report! Mitsubishi Pajero vs Toyota Fortuner vs Ford Endeavour

How good are the Dynapro MT tyres for highway and regular driving? My usage involved long highway drives and then offroading/trail driving. Once the Fortuner stock tyres wear out, will be looking for replacement options.
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