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Old 13th February 2012, 08:35   #211
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR
How does the turbo-lag compare with that of Cruze?
Crazy -

As we have been discussing, on the BS4 Optra, the lag for sure has reduced a LOT ! but but so has the pronounced punch that it used to deliver (Poitive, Keyur, mates don't jump on me ).

Lag in comparison to the Cruze is way way less, which the Optra much more drivable in the city.

Discounts - I'm dead sure you would be able to knock off the Insurance, which they claim is close to 30K and another 10K as corporate discount.

All - I got this from my sales guy that the LS is being discontinued as GM is not making margins on the LS, Optra might be offered in the LT variant alone.
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Old 13th February 2012, 09:46   #212
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

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Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
@Keyur - I remember, when I offered @MAS (from Chennai) a TD on the VVS, if he were to visit Delhi, you were rather surprised that I'd let another drive my new car. Seems you have gotten less possessive about your Torqueen. Good going! But somehow, I almost expected you to offer it, if you were to read this.
Read my words carefully .
I said I will ARRANGE for a TD. Never mentioned anything about the Torqueen

Although, ninja seems decent enough, so if I can't arrange for the TD car, might (might...) let him TD the queen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Any confirmed news?

I was informed from the Chevy showroom itself that the Cruze may be phased out soon, and hence the suggested to check out Cruze instead. They were not offering any discounts on Magnum as well. (Weird, since I guess there were huge discounts earlier?)

How does the turbo-lag compare with that of Cruze?
I seriously doubt that they will phase out the car which brought GM out of the muck. That is pretty much the highest selling car in that segment!
They are coming out with a new Cruze, with better leg space is what I heard.

The lag in the Optra is much less than that of the Cruze and the ride quality is also better!

You should get a 30-35K discount on the Optra.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:31   #213
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

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Originally Posted by keyur View Post
I seriously doubt that they will phase out the car which brought GM out of the muck. That is pretty much the highest selling car in that segment!
They are coming out with a new Cruze, with better leg space is what I heard.

The lag in the Optra is much less than that of the Cruze and the ride quality is also better!

You should get a 30-35K discount on the Optra.
Sorry, my mistake. Was a typo.

I meant - the showroom informed that Optra might be phased out soon. Hence they suggested Cruze.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:33   #214
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Any confirmed news?

I was informed from the Chevy showroom itself that the Cruze may be phased out soon, and hence the suggested to check out Cruze instead. They were not offering any discounts on Magnum as well. (Weird, since I guess there were huge discounts earlier?)

How does the turbo-lag compare with that of Cruze?
I presume there has been a typo above.

There have been talks of an updated Cruze for a while now, after the report in Autocar India. More details can be found here . You can also expect a price increase then. IIRC, the updates expected were a change in engine (Z series 160+bhp) and increase in rear headroom. Currently, I can't even sit straight on a rear bench with my 6'. The increase may come from slightly lower seats (thereby reducing under-thigh support) and probably from changing the back angle and placement a bit (which may lead to lesser ergonomic sitting and/or lesser legroom).

AFAIK, the discounts on the Mangum, which were hovering around about 30k were adjusted in the ex-showroom price some time back. This works out better, as the registration and insurance is then calculated on this reduced figure.

The Cruzes I had driven had considerably more turbo-lag than the current BS4 Magnum. Though I love the looks of the Cruze, overall still prefer the Magnum, as I think it is a lot more practical a car to be with, especially if taller people are going to use it. As mentioned before on the thread, also found the ergonomics of the pedal placement, seat, angle of footwell base etc much better in a Magnum. The rear seat experience especially, in an Optra, is a lot better anyway. All that said, if you like to make a statement, the Cruze may be a lot better amongst the two.

Could make a more detailed comparison between the two, if you need it.

Edit: Just seen CD's post above, after posting this one.

@CD, there have been a lot of talks about the Optra being phased out without concrete information. What we have seen is that the Max model (the base model before) was phased out a few years back. The petrol is probably not stocked with dealers anymore and only gotten on order from the facotry (not surprising). The diesel continues, amidst all this talk. This question, was one of the primary motivators for me to join the forum and start the Choosing thread (link on page 1). My take has been that GM was unlikely to stop the car, till they have something else in this range in a diesel. If the LS is discontinued as per @Torquedo's info, it may be to create 'space' for the Sail diesel.

Last edited by Poitive : 13th February 2012 at 10:40.
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Old 13th February 2012, 10:39   #215
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Any confirmed news?

I was informed from the Chevy showroom itself that the Cruze may be phased out soon, and hence the suggested to check out Cruze instead. They were not offering any discounts on Magnum as well. (Weird, since I guess there were huge discounts earlier?)

How does the turbo-lag compare with that of Cruze?
the Cruze is going to be phased out??Or were they talking about the impending facelift??

Edit:Just read the posts above!!
Mods please delete this post if required

Last edited by KINI : 13th February 2012 at 10:41.
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Old 13th February 2012, 11:02   #216
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Crazy, Kini Et All -

There have been rounds of talks going around about phasing out the Optra for ages now.

When I started hunting for my next drive some 2+ years back there was this conversation going around, about the Optra being shelved.

Guys, no one absolutely no one has any clue on it being phased out, so please let's keep away from such rumors and concentrate what the Optra can offer.

What it can and cannot has been discussed at length on the forum, incase someone needs any details please PM me.

It is SHEER VFM deal - Look at this -

I got my Optra OTR @ 8.65L, now the ZDi is selling @ 7.5L does it make any sense to go for the Swift Zdi ????

PS: No offense to any of the Swift Zdi owners, the above said is my perception.

Happy Motoring !!
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Old 13th February 2012, 12:48   #217
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyur View Post
Read my words carefully .
I said I will ARRANGE for a TD. Never mentioned anything about the Torqueen

Although, ninja seems decent enough, so if I can't arrange for the TD car, might (might...) let him TD the queen!
Lol

Thanks for offering (either way!) Will look forward to it someday when we get the time to meet up and discuss (about) our ladies!
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Old 13th February 2012, 13:38   #218
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Lol

Thanks for offering (either way!) Will look forward to it someday when we get the time to meet up and discuss (about) our ladies!
You are welcome! Currently we are starting up with a mass projector mod (15 cars), so you are welcome to join in if you are interested!
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Old 17th February 2012, 18:16   #219
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Default Experiencing The VVS Magnum

.
EXPERIENCING THE VVS MAGNUM
.

The Good, The Bad & The Ugly - No, we don't see Clint Eastwood hunting down (VVS) Laxman here!
.
All Optra Owners - This is important - Do read.
.

One of the primary concerns I had when one bought this car was about reliability. Was OK with odd niggles, but not with a breakdown. Given how much I liked this car, I was not as much bothered about this car getting discontinued, as long as the parts/service was available.

So, there I was one day, a hundred kms away from Delhi, on this unexpected short day trip, walking out of the car and to my horror, seeing a fluid rapidly flowing from under the car. Was aghast, as it was very important to reach Delhi back the same night, preferably before nightfall. It was well into the afternoon then.

Anyway, after a brief check under the bonnet, called up the service manager of the dealership; also the Service Engineer. They were nonplussed about what to do, as I was quite far - seems they were a bit embarrassed to say that they can't help me and I should call the helpline. Tried the GM helpline number once. Didn't get through on first go. Not wanting to waste time called the fellow one kind of knows in GM. He immediately got the wheels moving. Was fortunate that we had reached the destination for the afternoon, so one didn't really waste much time on that front.

A temporary diagnosis made over the phone was that it was an HPS fluid leak. Was also specifically told not to use the car, as running the HPS pump without fluid would damage it too.

To my surprise and delight, within about 2-2.5 hours, someone from NCR drove down all the way from one of the A.S.S. This, when their regular service car of the dealership had gone to attend to another complaint. Apparently, a car was arranged from the GM office to get the mechanics to the VVS. Was very impressed. They also didn't send people from the nearest ***, which may have been more convenient for them, as they were a lot more confident of the NCR chaps, to handle it well. They were very professional and did the job in about half an hour, as was informed on the phone. The issue was tentatively diagnosed over the phone as a leak from the Hydraulic Power Steering, which it was. They had carried the tools, parts and consumables for it. The fellows knew exactly what to do. Was also impressed with their attitude.

Steps followed
  • Removed the pipes to and from the pump.
  • Cut tiny bits of the ends (as needed).
  • Refixed the pipes with stronger clamps (which they had carried)
  • Ensured there was no air left in the system (described below)
Some pictures of the process
.

Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs16.jpg
HPS Fluid
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs17.jpg
HPS Fluid
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs18.jpg
HPS Fluid!!!!!!!!!!
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs19.jpg
Fluid pipe removed
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs20.jpg
The Culprit - Weak Clamp
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs21.jpg
In process
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs22.jpg
New & Stronger - Note the clamp
.
Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)-vvs23.jpg
Another view
.


Not a penny was charged. The small amount of HPS fluid which remained, was also left with me, for a Top-up, if needed.

After pouring the fluid, one also needs to make sure that there is no air left in pump-pipe-hps system. For this, the car was started for a short while, and the steering wheel moved from one extreme to the other repeatedly for a few minutes (I pushed them to do it for a bit longer, just to be safe).

Now, the other info one got was that it was something happening quite regularly to the current lot of Optras. It was something very easy to correct. ust putting better clamps to the pipes to and from the HPS pump.

Suggestion to fellow Optra Owners: Do not wait for this issue to strike you. Simply get new and stronger clamps fixed. It is an easy 20 minute procedure. The A.S.S. fellows should know about what needs to be done (if you live in a metro), since it is a known issue. It may help, if one was to take up the issue gently with them, rather in a confrontational manner. It could save you a lot of trouble.

Note: The mechanic had also enquired if I had given it "raise" (increased the RPM) with the steering fully on one side; suggesting that the issue could get triggered with such an act. I think I read about Vento's too having some guideline around this. Probably an issue with other cars too. Would be prudent to avoid doing so, till one gets stronger clamps.

The Good - GM attended to it so very well. Even when one was far away from town. It gives me a lot of confidence with GM service. (other good developments too, which I'll share later)

The Bad - The problem happening in the first place.

The Ugly - It seems to be a known issue and very easy to take care of. One can't excuse GM for not doing so at the factory/PDI/Service level.

Last edited by Poitive : 17th February 2012 at 18:25. Reason: *** to A.S.S. and minor formatting
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:25   #220
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Default Re: Experiencing The VVS Magnum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
A temporary diagnosis made over the phone was that it was an HPS fluid leak. Was also specifically told not to use the car, as running the HPS pump without fluid would damage it too.
To my surprise and delight, within about 2-2.5 hours, someone from NCR drove down all the way from one of the A.S.S. They had carried the tools, parts and consumables for it. The fellows knew exactly what to do. Was also impressed with their attitude.
Thanks for sharing this with the pictures Poitive. You were fortunate that you were not that far away from the city & the service support reached the spot within a couple of hours. Had you been to a remote place, it would have been a nightmare to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Suggestion to fellow Optra Owners: Do not wait for this issue to strike you. Simply get new and stronger clamps fixed. It is an easy 20 minute procedure. The A.S.S. fellows should know about what needs to be done (if you live in a metro), since it is a known issue. It may help, if one was to take up the issue gently with them, rather in a confrontational manner. It could save you a lot of trouble.
That is a good suggestion to get the hose clamps replaced proactively for all the new Optra owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The Good - GM attended to it so very well. Even when one was far away from town. It gives me a lot of confidence with GM service. (other good developments too, which I'll share later)
Perhaps your acquaintance with the GM came in handy. Others may not be that fortunate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The Bad - The problem happening in the first place.
Using undersized clamps, was it a means for cost cutting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
The Ugly - It seems to be a known issue and very easy to take care of. One can't excuse GM for not doing so at the factory/PDI/Service level.
+1 to that Though this seems to be a minor replacement & does not warrant a recall, but GM must replace all the faulty clamps of new cars positively.
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:30   #221
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Hey Poitive,
Nice to read that the issue was taken care off. Not trying to pick on your post but it did appear to me that you had to finally resort to calling a contact in GM. I hope the same treatment is given to someone who just calls the helpline. Then it will become truly great.
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:40   #222
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Hey Poitive,
Nice to read that the issue was taken care off. Not trying to pick on your post but it did appear to me that you had to finally resort to calling a contact in GM. I hope the same treatment is given to someone who just calls the helpline. Then it will become truly great.
Am writing this from the phone.

Didn't have to RESORT to it , mate. Just tried the helpline ONCE. The call didn't connect. Can't blame GM . Since it was VERY important to get back to Delhi asap, I didn't want to waste any time, so right away tried the contact's no.
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Old 17th February 2012, 19:45   #223
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Am writing this from the phone.

Didn't have to RESORT to it , mate. Just tried the helpline ONCE. The call didn't connect. Can't blame GM . Since it was VERY important to get back to Delhi asap, I didn't want to waste any time, so right away tried the contact's no.
Hey I can understand that totally and the way they responded to your call is applaud-able nevertheless unless your contact was the MD himself.
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Old 18th February 2012, 18:54   #224
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

@Poitive, Firstly, congrats on what easily is one of the best ownership reports on the forum.

Being a prospective Magnum buyer, gained invaluation knowledge about the car in your thread.

And, thanks to you, Keyur for the PM's. You guys rock.

I recently decided to take the plunge and booked Magnum LT variant. I wanted a 2012 manufactured car and the dealer promised one. I insisted that should he give it in writing that the car will be a 2011 manufactured one. He obliged and gave it in writing. Please refer to the attachment.

However, to my dismay, I found that the 10th digit is B(instead of C). I posted my query in the Find your car's date of manufacture (VIN) thread.

Wildon was quick to respond and he pointed out that for 2012 cars, it's the 9th and not the 10th character that represents the manufactured year of the car. He also pointed me to ghostrider who, from the looks of it has done a lot of research on this.

If ghostrider is right, my car is Feb 2012 manufactured. Now, we are only half way done with Feb. Is it possible for GM to manufacture a car in the first week of Feb and get it shipped in the next 10 days?

All this is rather confusing me. Will appreciate inputs from those who know these VIN numbers well.
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Old 18th February 2012, 19:06   #225
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Default Re: Finally! “Driven!” & “Chosen a Diesel Sedan” – The VVS Magnum (Chevrolet Optra)

Correction - Had missed a vital step here! In bold below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

Steps followed
  • Removed the pipes to and from the pump.
  • Cut tiny bits of the ends (as needed).
  • Refixed the pipes with stronger clamps (which they had carried)
  • Filled in the HPS fluid.
  • Ensured there was no air left in the system (described below)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Thanks for sharing this with the pictures Poitive. You were fortunate that you were not that far away from the city & the service support reached the spot within a couple of hours. Had you been to a remote place, it would have been a nightmare to say the least.
Yes, it could have been much worse, had it been far away, and also see that it could have happened (as it has in the past) with any car. But even this sounded positive as they were focused on solving the problem, than showing action. What I liked was that they didn't send someone from the A.S.S. nearby, which they thought may not be as competent and send someone all the way. It may have had something to do with the contact.

Quote:
That is a good suggestion to get the hose clamps replaced proactively for all the new Optra owners.
Strongly recommend that. Especially as we have other reports of this on the forum as well.

Quote:
Perhaps your acquaintance with the GM came in handy. Others may not be that fortunate
I too thought of that. It may have saved me some time, as otherwise they may have waited for the normal repair's car to return, than using a car from GM's office. But then, there is NoRules' experience. Have quoted a part from his post on his thread below. Seems GM is doing a good job with attending to such calls. My major complaint was this not being done as a preventive measure by the company.

Quote:
Using undersized clamps, was it a means for cost cutting?
Really don't think so. The cost saving would be too small, and such under warranty repairs (with about Rs 300-400 odd worth of consumables) is likely to cost the company more.

I suspect it could just be some batch of poor quality clamps the quality-control department missed out on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Hey I can understand that totally and the way they responded to your call is applaud-able nevertheless unless your contact was the MD himself.
MD? Well maybe not too far from him . You never know


More seriously, you should read NoRules' experience on a holiday. Some extracts below.

@NoRules: Expect you would not mind me taking the liberty of quoting your post here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRules View Post
A.S.S experience so far:

~~~~~~~~~~
I was shocked to see oil spilt all over the engine bay and the power steering fluid container was totally empty. This, after getting everything checked only 30 mins earlier.

I remembered all those perceptions / advise of people about the GM unreliability.

I remembered it was a holiday and panicked. On advise of Maruti A.S.S friend I called up the 24*7 help line of General Motors. The lady at the other end of the phone was courteous and helpful and gave me the mobile number of General Manager - Service of the local dealership whom I called right away. He asked me about the problem / symptoms and in turn gave me another number to call - of the 24*7 on-road service engineer. Before I called the service engineer, the GM - service already informed his service engineer to expect my call. When I called the service engineer he told me he was at the other end of the city and would come as soon as possible.By then it started raining heavily and I was imagining all sorts of worst possible scenarios.

~~~~~~~~~

The service engineer reached my office within an hour and immediately diagnosed the problem as the pipe coming off at the joint on hitting the rod, refitted the pipe and refilled the power steering fluid / oil. It took him less than 10 minutes.

~~~~~~~~~

This incident and the response of General Motors at all levels on a public holiday (Call centre, General manager - Service, Service Engineer) gave me lot of confidence about my choice of car.
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