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Old 7th December 2012, 09:53   #211
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

First heard about the release of the Team-bhp key chains, then I took a look a the pictures in the announcement thread and ordered them. Today I received the parcel of 3 keys.

Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-key1.jpg

Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-key2.jpg

As you can see I found the length to be a tad too long and hence with a small DIY I reduced the length of the links to just one and now I am happy with the keychain

Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-key3.jpg

+ves
Good material rubber used for the main logo
Since it is rubber the keychain will not harm anything in the pocket

-ve
Slight rusting on the inner part of one of the rings was noticed.
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Old 24th January 2013, 12:44   #212
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Update

I know for a long time this thread has been silent with regards to the car. Thats because it has been a niggle free 25000 kms. This car without doubt is one of the THE best offering from Tata. Yes, the White Whale completed 25000 kms today on my drive to work.

So since 12th Sept 2011 till 24th Jan 2013 the car has been used for 25000 kms. Which equates to roughly 1600 kms a month.


Observations for the past 25000 kms

1. The engine has opened up nicely now as its giving really good mileage of 16kpl in city running. I would take that for this 1.5 ton car. Ofcourse the presence of the Dieseltronic helps the cause further.
2. No major niggling issues except the rattling noise in the dashboard. This I am suspecting is the component crossover or the tweeters.
3. Excellent highway performer. The car has done some 8 highway trips which includes 3 longish ones and it has never failed to impress. Plus 1 very very long one is on horizon during Aug, this is going to be a 9000 kms biggie!
4. Headlight throw is inconsistent and inadequate but have not been able to do anything about it as both bulbs are H7, hence, no relay kits.
5. Despite its size its really easy to park or wiggle through a narrow gap. The rear parking sensor does help.
6. Maintenance cost of this vehicle amounts to some 1200 bucks monthly if I assume 6k spending on service every 10k kms in a year. This amounts to about a total spending of 4500 on the car including diesel. In fact the best thing to have happened after this car is the less visits to the service center (Touch wood ). The last I have seen them was in Aug 2012 and the next one would be somewhere in July 2013.
7. The most easiest yet toughest car to drive around is my observation. I have been scrapped by Kerala transport bus, a jabalpur factory army truck but all that has happened is small scratches without any dents.


Wish list

1. More engine power. I am planning for a piggyback chip from race-chip to give some semblance of power. Done. Got the RaceDynamics Diesel box on 28th Sept 2012. Up next is a remap from Tune-O-Tronics
2. Suspension is on the softer side which is good for comfort but it wallows on bad roads, so wish if Tata comes with some upgrade to a more neutral suspension setup. Going to get coil spring adjusters for the Aug trip so that the car does not bottom out too much.
3. Brakes are good but could have been much better with discs on all 4 wheels at least with the club class, so that we could retro fit them.
4. Projector 4300 K HID setup.
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Old 24th January 2013, 14:36   #213
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Hey motomaverick, may I know how you feel Manza's clutch in city traffic? I too have a Manza and in heavy city traffic, I feel the clutch is too heavy and my left leg pains :-) I just wanted to get another user's feedback before taking it to A$$.
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Old 25th January 2013, 10:27   #214
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerknair View Post
Hey motomaverick, may I know how you feel Manza's clutch in city traffic? I too have a Manza and in heavy city traffic, I feel the clutch is too heavy and my left leg pains :-) I just wanted to get another user's feedback before taking it to A$$.
I am not sure how you will define hardness of the clutch but I do not find any issues with the clutch in bumper to bumper traffic. Yes, it is a tad harder than some of the other diesel counterparts but nothing to cause pain in the legs, so you can go to TASS and ask them to bleed the clutch, it helped in my case which was done some 1 year back.

On a lighter note maybe you need Calcium supplements
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Old 25th January 2013, 12:56   #215
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerknair View Post
Hey motomaverick, may I know how you feel Manza's clutch in city traffic? I too have a Manza and in heavy city traffic, I feel the clutch is too heavy and my left leg pains :-) I just wanted to get another user's feedback before taking it to A$$.
Yes. the clutch on the versions prior to the refresh last year is a bit hard for start stop city traffic and frequent bleeding will help reduce the hardness. TML should offer the clutch from the newer lot for the previous owners for free or atleast discounted price, it would help a great deal for Manza owners.

@Motomaverick.
The dashboard rattling in Manza is a tough nut to crack. Moment you think you have solved it, it will resurface somewhere else. For me, first it was the music system panel not sitting properly (fixed by DIY), then the cross overs (fixed by DIY), then a/c ducts (DIY again), then a small box in the steering column (fixed by a.s.s.), then again something else after which I gave up. Surprisingly Vista owners don't seem to have a problem.

My new Swift ZDI has started to rattle and after seeing the plastic quality on the Maruti, feel that Manza is a lot better on this aspect.
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Old 28th January 2013, 13:41   #216
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
Yes. the clutch on the versions prior to the refresh last year is a bit hard for start stop city traffic and frequent bleeding will help reduce the hardness. TML should offer the clutch from the newer lot for the previous owners for free or atleast discounted price, it would help a great deal for Manza owners.
Thanks Sridhar, yes mine is a 2010 model, which is prior to the refresh last year. I will have TASS check the clutch this time.
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:07   #217
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Ok folks itís time to update this thread which has been lying dead for a long time.

About the Car
The car is currently at 27000 kms, with no apparent niggles that has come to fore after the initial hiccup early on.

This car will be taking me to Ladakh this year, and as some of you are already aware of the massive plans in Aug Ė Sep 2013 time frame of 23 days. With that in mind and not to be hurried at the last moment, below are plans for the car, some of which has already been completed.

Proposed Replacements/Repair
  • Turbo cleaning along with intercooler. Noticed a few oil patches near the turbo manifold and hence, assumption is some oil is leaking.
  • Clutch replacement. Now this has been planned as the Manzaís earlier to club class are noted for developing hard clutch over time. In fact the master cylinder was replaced in the 1st week of ownership itself.
  • Brake shoe & rotor. Brake shoes will definitely be replaced as there is some vibrations creeping in to the steering under hard braking.
  • Suspension check. Plan to get the entire 4 suspensions checked and greased. Though there is no apparent noise and the suspensions are not sagging, just a precaution.
  • Steel wheels. I will be leaving behind the current aftermarket alloy wheels, and run the trip on steel wheels with hard compound rubber. For this one I am still searching for the steel wheels as Tata has quoted 1300 bucks for 1 wheel.
  • Power: Since the vehicle will be lugging 4 adults plus luggage, it is apparent to me that it might need more torque up there.

    So what do you do in that case?
    Either go for a tuning box or a remap.
    Now tuning box I already had, so did the next best thing, sold the box and went for a remap from Tune-O-Tronics. Yep! You have heard it correctly, my Manza is on a remap now.
    How much is it churning out and other reports, I will be sharing sometime later with a few more kms added in. But the gains quoted are 245NM torque, 115 bhp.


  • Ground Clearance: Now that the power is sorted out, the next thing was to sort out the GC of the vehicle. It is at a low 163mm, add to it a soft suspension and itís a recipe for bottom thuds. So I will be putting AutoRunner Spring adjusters on all 4 suspension to not only stiffen it slightly but maintain 163mm despite the loads.

Things I bought
So to keep the Ladakh preparation going on I have started buying all sorts of things one by one.
  1. Hydraulic Jack
    First up and most important is making your life easier. To that effect, I have decided to use a hydraulic flatbed jack of 2 tons capacity for the trip. I am sure most of you will agree that rotating that OEM jack is a pain and that pain will certainly multiply in Ladakh.

    Price: 1499/- all inclusive shipping
    Place: Ebay.in

    Testing: Not yet done with the vehicle but I tried using the jack without it and the pump is working fine.

    Here are a few pictures

    Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-20130318_195305.jpg

    Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-20130318_195319.jpg

  2. Towing Rope
    2nd thing that I bought from the list shared above is a towing rope. Hopefully it will not be used but then it is always prudent to be prepared.

    Price: 280
    Place: Ebay.in

    Testing: Not yet tested, though the rope looks thinner, I hope it has the 3 ton strength that is advertised. I will be testing it soon but for that I need a guinea pig, I mean car.

    Here are pictures of the rope

    Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-20130314_184319.jpg

    Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-20130314_184407.jpg

  3. Puncture Repair kit
    Yes, I did not have this till now. I have been travelling on highways but it has always been to places often frequented and through expressways so never felt the need of this kit. But with Ladakh I donít want to take any chance and be self-sufficient.

    Price: 138
    Place: Ebay.in / Storeji

    Testing: This one obviously I wonít be testing as of now and hopefully do not have to use it.

    Some Pics
Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-puncturerepair1.jpg

So all in all the trip preparations have started in all earnest, hence, stay tuned for more updates from the list above as well as an update on the T-O-T remap.
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:35   #218
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

1 year 6 months and the white whale is 27000 kms old today. Rough mileage from the 1.5 ton behemoth over these kms will be 16kpl.

All hail the MJD National engine!!

Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms-odomter1.jpg
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Old 20th March 2013, 13:57   #219
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
...This car will be taking me to Ladakh this year...
motomaverick - A few thoughts on the above post of yours:

Turbo Cleaning - can you please share more on this. How's it done? I understand intercooler but not aware if and how turbo is cleaned?

Clutch Replacement - why do you really want to spend on this, unless there are any issues? If you are worried clutch becoming hard, then let it get hard and then replace. Stock clutch on my 83k km old manza is not hard as yet. It's not butter smooth, but comfortable. If it's getting changed in warranty, that's a different matter then

Steel wheels and tires - I think you are looking for replacing the tires and wheels for this trip. If so, I think it's an expensive thing to do for one trip. If at all, let's say one alloy and one tire is damaged during the trip, the cost to replace will be less than 4 steel wheels and tires. May be I am missing your perspective on this

Towing rope - this is what I picked up a few days back. Expensive but very very good quality. http://www.carkhana.com/index.php/towingrope5ton.html

If not already done, you may want to add a set of jump start cables, 5 in one emergency torch, spare bulbs and fuses to the list. Some examples below:

http://shopping.rediff.com/product/c...=search_cables

http://shopping.rediff.com/product/5-in-1-auto-emergency-safety-hammer-escape-tool/10863960?sc_cid=search_cables|search_car hammer

Good luck for your trip plans!
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Old 20th March 2013, 15:43   #220
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
[*]Steel wheels. For this one I am still searching for the steel wheels as Tata has quoted 1300 bucks for 1 wheel.
You can check with relience autozone or any other tyre/alloys shop, they have might have old ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
[*]Power: went for a remap from Tune-O-Tronics. Yep! You have heard it correctly, my Manza is on a remap now.
That's awesome . Will be eagerly waiting for you review .

Cheers
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Old 20th March 2013, 16:15   #221
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit1234singla View Post
motomaverick - A few thoughts on the above post of yours:

Turbo Cleaning - can you please share more on this. How's it done? I understand intercooler but not aware if and how turbo is cleaned?
I guess my wordings were not proper, basically I meant checking of the turbo as well as cleaning of the intercooler.
Quote:
Clutch Replacement - why do you really want to spend on this, unless there are any issues? If you are worried clutch becoming hard, then let it get hard and then replace. Stock clutch on my 83k km old manza is not hard as yet. It's not butter smooth, but comfortable. If it's getting changed in warranty, that's a different matter then
Currently my clutch is hard, though I guess not pretty hard but apart from that there is a slight shuddering observed when releasing the clutch while accelerating. I know the cause is probably my driving style which was not correct up till now Since I am planning to service the vehicle only by June end, I might just pop in to Tata to get the clutch checked and bled if required.
Quote:
Steel wheels and tires - I think you are looking for replacing the tires and wheels for this trip. If so, I think it's an expensive thing to do for one trip. If at all, let's say one alloy and one tire is damaged during the trip, the cost to replace will be less than 4 steel wheels and tires. May be I am missing your perspective on this
Well my alloys are aftermarket and even if one bends or cracks I will not be able to find an exact replacement, in that case I will have to change all 4 alloys which would be an expensive proposition plus selling 3 alloys might be tough as well. So my train of thought goes towards getting used steel rims and cheap tubeless MRFs or Apollo and this is after discussion with fellow member Rohit Tunga (who had taken his Linea up there)

Quote:
Towing rope - this is what I picked up a few days back. Expensive but very very good quality. http://www.carkhana.com/index.php/towingrope5ton.html
I think these look thick because they are 5 ton, what I bought was 3 ton, anyhow there will be tons of tow rope considering the number of cars in the gang.
Quote:
If not already done, you may want to add a set of jump start cables, 5 in one emergency torch, spare bulbs and fuses to the list. Some examples below:

http://shopping.rediff.com/product/c...=search_cables

http://shopping.rediff.com/product/5-in-1-auto-emergency-safety-hammer-escape-tool/10863960?sc_cid=search_cables|search_car hammer

Good luck for your trip plans!
Yes jumper cable is already in the cards, plus various fuses ranging from 5A to 40A is in the items list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoudhury View Post
You can check with relience autozone or any other tyre/alloys shop, they have might have old ones.


That's awesome . Will be eagerly waiting for you review .

Cheers
Yeah I have to pen down the review I am just waiting to get the air filter changed and check as my current one is pretty clogged even after dusting.

Last edited by motomaverick : 20th March 2013 at 16:18.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:31   #222
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility
Thatís the famous Spider-man quote I used to tell myself when I went ahead with the tuning box.

Quote:
Power is given only to those who dare to lower themselves and pick it up. Only one thing matters, one thing; to be able to dare!
Thatís the quote I remember telling myself when I made the decision to get the ECU remapped.

Prologue
The lazy white whale from Tata stables got a shot of adrenaline first off in Oct 2012 after I got the RaceDynamics Dieseltronic tuning box. But as they say humans especially motor heads are always looking to enhance their vehicle and so did I by getting the brain of the car i.e. the ECU remapped.

Got the remap done from Bangalore based tuners, Tune-O-Tronics. I would thank Kryptonite for his detailed review on their remaps on his Skoda and that is what gave me the confidence to go ahead and get this brain surgery done on the car.

I will pen down my views on the remap and a comparison with the box. Please do not hate me as these opinions are mine and may not necessarily appeal to everyone.

So Why remap when I was using the tuning box?
Yes, thatís the obvious and most common question that comes to the mind. My sole reason for going with remap was to have the flexibility of adjusting the power delivery of the car as I wanted so as to improve the drivability in city conditions with the added advantage of highway mile munching. I know itís too much to ask but this is very much possible with custom maps. This very point is missing with a tuning box where you have to stick to the pre-made maps.

Pros of remap (my views)
  • Easy to customize according to your driving style and how you want the power delivery
  • No hassles of connecting and disconnecting anything when giving for service.
  • Your local service technicians cannot detect any anomaly with the ECU as all diagnostics are untouched and will return all clear
  • Your car will become a sleeper car if no external body mods are done
  • The car gets a new lease of life as it suddenly seems very nibble through the entire rev range.

Cons of remap (my views)
  • Only con I can think of is someone abusing the car by consistent high revving or trashing it as you would like to feel the increased power. Secondly asking the tuner to tune it way over the threshold without knowing the consequences.

Cool, so how is it actually done?
First of all after seeing how itís done 1 word of caution, if you are getting a remap done, please get it done from a reliable source, someone who knows what he is doing. I must add this, the guys at Tune-O-Tronics are total pros, especially Siddarth and Vivek. They know each and every ECU board, what to look for and how to work on the ECU.
  1. First the ECU was taken out of its mount and placed on the bench
  2. The Rom is read through a master device
  3. The maps are copied with some 5-8 backups of the stock map and the files are edited.
  4. Interestingly, the ECU IC chip in the Manza comes from Magneto Marelli and contains some 200 odd files for various conditions.
  5. The maps per say are pretty crude from Tata and the curves are step like is what Siddarth said when asked.
  6. Once the maps are edited, the same is written back to the ECU on the bench. Post that the ECU is fixed back to the car.
  7. Now the use of bench depends on the type of ECU so not necessarily all cars might need the ECU to be taken out. Sorry donít have any graphs as it seems itís a tad difficult to generate the gains graph for a Magneto Marreli ECU. Also, I did not click any photographs as I thought its not nice to showcase their business process to the outside world. If you want to see pictures of the bench you can do so at http://tune-o-tronics.com/gallery.asp

So how was the Manza in stock condition?
If I were to describe how the Manza was in stock condition, I would do that in two words, Lazy Cruiser. Yes, the 1.3 MJD is refined to the ďTĒ and the 90 bhp VGT has ample power to pull the car in stock but there was no fun, there was quite a bit of turbo lag especially in roll-ons.

Ok dude then how is the Manza after the remap?
Good question. But before I pen that down I would like to point out how it was with the Dieseltronic.

Manza performance with Tuning Box
  1. The Dieseltronic tuning box has two maps, namely P1 (mild power increase and mileage) and P2 (almost 30% power increase)
  2. The drivability of the Manza definitely improves with the tuning box, in fact I was getting almost 1kpl more in city conditions in the P1 mode.
  3. I have not done any speed timings with the box but definitely you reach faster to the ton.

Alright, so now that I have told you what happened to the car with the tuning box, you will say, your remap gives the same kind of things. Yes, thatís true that the remap will give the same kind of improvement as the box but the best part is that the remap will touch quite a few settings in the car thus increasing the efficiency rather than the box which was concentrated purely on increasing the fuel pressure and fooling the stock ECU.

Comparison Remap vs Tuning Box
  • A number of engine processes are optimized in order to make sure my car benefits as much as possible from the remap. This gives more efficiency rather than the box which was concentrated only in fooling the ECU by increasing the rail pressure.
  • Less amount of smoke when accelerating. Yes, you read that correctly. Even I was surprised initially. Earlier with the box as well as interestingly in stock when the turbo used to fully open there was a plume of black smoke, none of this with the remap, or at least what I can see from the RVMs.
  • The power is more linear with the remap as the torque is delivered more linearly than the tuning box. There even though the turbo lag was reduced you can still feel the sudden push. This does not mean that the fun of getting pushed back into the seat is gone with the remap, in fact the force is still there but through a wider rpm range.
  • Tuning box is just plug-n-play, whereas remap is a more permanent feature. However, no hassles of extra wires and placement of the box etc.
  • The current map on the Manza is essentially if I have to put it by taking into account the tuning box, I would say itís currently in P2 mode with mileage

My gains as was told by Tune-o-Tronics

114-115 bhp with 246 NM torque

I do not have any graphs or dyno runs but I am planning to do some runs with the TorquePro OBD 2 app and put down some results.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 12:35   #223
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@motomaverick First of all thank you for a very clear and precise writeup of your experience on the remap.

I have 2 questions..
1. Have you changed the air filter to a non OEM one or still running on the original filter?

2. You mentioned that the remap is not detectable by the service center's diagnostics. Are you sure on this?

The reason I ask this, am also contemplating getting the remap done. Although my original warranty of 2 years is over I have the extended warranty for an additional 2 years and would not want this to be compromised.

Your inputs will be an immense help.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 22:02   #224
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
@motomaverick First of all thank you for a very clear and precise writeup of your experience on the remap.

I have 2 questions..
1. Have you changed the air filter to a non OEM one or still running on the original filter?

2. You mentioned that the remap is not detectable by the service center's diagnostics. Are you sure on this?

The reason I ask this, am also contemplating getting the remap done. Although my original warranty of 2 years is over I have the extended warranty for an additional 2 years and would not want this to be compromised.

Your inputs will be an immense help.
Glad that you found this helpful.

1. I am still using the OEM filter though a new one now. Clean air filter certainly ensures that the car breathes easy and not sound and feel labored. I have read somewhere that with free flow air filters like K&N the torque tends to come on earlier than with the OEM filter.
2. Yes I am sure because the diagnostic files in the map are untouched, plus no fault readings. To top it off I was given assurance that unless the ECU is sent to the Tata factory its not detectable. But when giving to service this time I plan to be there to ensure no one takes the car for a joy ride cause the improved power is instantly noticed

Just to ensure that the engine and its components don't fail prematurely, my advice is to drive in a neutral manner and not trash the car every time just because it has more power.
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Old 28th March 2013, 09:08   #225
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Default re: Tata Manza: The story ends @ 45,000 kms

Alright another small update on the car. I had mentioned few posts back about the plan to get the turbo checked and intercooler cleaned as I had observed some oil patches.

Well yesterday went to TASS and got the above mentioned check done. It turns out that the clamp was slightly loose and was spewing some oil on and off, they checked the turbo, replaced the clamp and also checked the inter cooler. All is well with the intercooler, there was no muck or oil desposits there so it was quickly cleaned up.

Also had a great experience at TASS, despite having a lot of vehicles, they still took my car in and it was out in 30 mins flat. I was really impressed. And the best part? I did not have to pay anything, not even labor costs.

So whats the effect of this clean on the car?

Well the car has certainly become more aggressive than before and though it feels a little restrained (I suspect its mainly due to the clutch) it does feel more nimble footed now. Hoping to test out the vehicle with full load this Friday. The car will be loaded with 5 adults and luggage for a short spin to Mysore.

Last edited by motomaverick : 28th March 2013 at 09:10.
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