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Old 31st August 2011, 22:45   #1
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Default A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

I sold my Gem ( Opel Corsa 1.4 GSI) in the last week of June.

Why did I sell the Corsa?
1) 8 years old (2003 model)
2) The car met with an accident in 2007. The engine has not been quite the same thereafter.
3) GM knows how to make money through after sales service. I was paying a bomb each time the vehicle entered Regent Automobiles workshop.
4) Suspension and power steering were nearing their last legs and needed replacement.

How did I sell the Corsa?
After several failed attempts to get a good deal from various dealers, ACM, torquecurve and Poitive (Thanks guys), posted on my thread : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ra-verito.html (Tata Manza versus Mahindra Verito) to look for options outside dealership. Got a better price (circa Rs.10K extra) through an ad placed online in cardekho.com

What after that? (The search begins)
I was in no pressing need to buy a car immediately given that I had another car at home (A pre-worshipped 2005 Maruti Zen), that was being used by my wife very sparingly.

I was researching TBHP for new car options since middle of May with a budget of Rs.8.00 lacs. The following cars were in the shortlist (All cars test driven). TD's were done without the budget constraint in mind.

1) Verito (Petrol) - Rejected due to engine power issues. Felt the drag
2) Verito (Diesel) - Shortlisted
3) Manza (Petrol) - Rejected due to unresponsive engine.
4) Manza (Diesel) - Shortlisted
5) ANHC - Rejected due to high price
6) Etios - Shortlisted
7) Swift Dzire - Rejected due to tacky boot and space issues.
8) Fiesta Classic (Petrol) - Shortlisted.

Given the spiralling petrol prices, despite low running, I decided that my next car should perhaps be a diesel car only. The cars that fitted the bill to the T were Tata Manza and Mahindra Verito. At that stage, I took the views of fellow TBHP members.
See http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ra-verito.html (Tata Manza versus Mahindra Verito) to help resolve my dilemma. After sufficient views had poured in, I had made up my mind to go in for the Manza.

After a lot of haggling with the Tata dealer, I received a good price and went to them over a weekend to seal the deal for the Manza

The dealer goes back on his commitment
And then the heart break. The dealer went back on the value of discount that he offerred to me and priced it beyond my budget.

Simultaneously, a lot of direct feedback I got from a few colleagues and latest TBHP posts indicated that Manza may not be such a great idea. It planted within me, the thought of the Manza niggles becoming a lemon. I also had a change in thought process about insisting on a diesel car. I thought to myself "Why pay a lac more when you will not drive around for more than 8K to 10K kms per year"

The other cars I had test driven as above included the Etios and the Ford Fiesta Classic. Due to the car accident experience in 2007, I had decided that the next car would definitely need to have added safety features like the airbags and ABS.

Ford Fiesta Classic SXI had safety features but the product was not available with the dealership (it was not with the Delhi dealers till the end of August). So that got ruled out. This left me with Etios as the only available option. It was more a choice by ruling out the rest. I went to Galaxy Toyota, paid Rs.50K as advance and did the booking for the Etios VX

The TBHP PRI checklist (A blessing in disguise)
I insisted on doing a pre delivery inspection (which was grudgingly arranged by Galaxy almost 12 days after the booking). The vehicle failed in a variety of ways
1) Two huge scratches on the front mudguard
2) Hand brake had a lot of play
3) The music system was terrible ( all four speakers in front of the vehicle, something that I did not notice during the TD).
4) The vehicle had run 160km before the PDI (fear that it could have been used as a temporary TD vehicle, though for a short period)
5) For some reason, the engine noise filtering into the cabin was much more than what I felt in the Test drive vehicle.

Suddenly, it didn't feel like a great car to purchase. It's something that goes in your head. I asked myself "Boss, if you are going to pay Rs.8 lacs and are still not excited about your new car purchase, you surely should not buy that car. Hey, I then put a request for cancellation of booking and refund of advance on 16th August (I received the refund on 7th Sept).

And then the discounts on Honda City started pouring.
The City was not within my budget till end of July (no discounts after the price cut). I did take a TD of the car initially and the only major grouse I had with it was the dead pedal coming in the way of pressing the clutch fully. The car was otherwise very responsive. In the first week of August, the new car price thread suggested that there were discounts on offer and I made calls to a few dealers. Courtesy Honda offerred a Rs.90K off and I knew this was the Aha moment!!

I went to the dealer immediately (3rd wk August) and booked Honda City-SMT.

The dealership/buying experience
The salesman (R.P.Yadav) frankly did not know more about the car than what I had already gathered in TBHP. However, what mattered to me was a commitment from him that he would not go back on his price commitments on an extremely tempting and meaty offer.

I carried out the Pre delivery inspection using the checklist on 26th August, 2011. Nothing major came up. Paid up the same day through RTGS in the afternoon. Asked for the following accessories.

1) Gear Lock (Blackcat)
2) Reverse parking sensors(Blackcat)
3) 3M underbody coating
4) Seat Covers

On 27th August morning, I left early at 10am so that I could see the under body coating being done in person. Documentation for the car (invoices, gate pass, warranty papers, insurance etc.) took a painful amount of time. My family came in at 1:30pm and we finally took delivery of the car.

Price information
1) OTR Delhi including insurance and registration - Rs.8.18 lacs.
2) The warranty on Honda City post price cut is 2yrs as opposed to 4 years earlier. I bought the extended warranty for approx Rs.6K
3) Honda Road Side Assist is no longer free. I bought it by paying approx Rs.4K

What I like about the car
1) Extremely responsive engine.
2) Decent interiors
3) Good looks
4) Ample cabin and boot space
5) Smooth drive

What I don't like about the car
1) The Michelin XM1 tyres are making a lot of noise (I second libran's view). The 3M underbody coating has apparently not helped. To top it all, the underbody coating was applied only to part of the body.
2) The down gear shift (specially 1st gear) is not easy.
3) The parking sensor mirror that was fitted on top of the original mirror vibrates a lot when the car is in motion.
4) The dead pedal comes in the way of a complete clutch press. (Sadly, this is something I knew well even before I bought the car)
5) The high trunk restricts rear visibility.
6) No auto lock once you enter the car - However, I found out that the car automatically locks itself within a few minutes of activating the door open button in the key from outside(if you do not enter the car by then)

Detailed Review

1) Steering

The steering feels good, neither too big, nor too small. No steering cover was provided, so the steering would be tested for palm perspiration during summers. I tried to wet my hands a bit and try my hand on the steering and I did not find any grip related issues.

The steering rotation is moderately easy with the power steering kicking in after ignition. I would have expected it to be a lot more smoother for this category of car, though.

The steering mounted audio controls are easy to use. I haven't used steering controls before, so I am currently finding it a lot easier to adjust the mode and volume from the main console instead. I quite like changing the tracks from the steering controls. The only disappointment is the lack of a mute button in the steering & main console. I don't know if any other car has the button, but it would have been nice to have that.

Steering adjustment for height is convenient. However, in particular positions (unfortunately, my favourate position), I find visibility of the tacho and speedo an issue. Hopefully, I should be able to adjust the seat height and steering in a manner that does not impede visibility of dashboard controls. Will try doing that in a few days.

2) Engine sound

The engine is absolutely noiseless on idle. In fact there were several times when I tried to start the engine when it was already on. The engine sound is a bother beyond 3000 rpm but that's not a problem with me ( i seldom cross that ).

3) Gear Shift

Upshifting gears from 1st till 5th is very smooth. Downshifting from 5th till 3rd gear is very smooth as well.

Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd and from 2nd to 1st is very stiff. I am not sure whether this is unique to my car or whether this is a general Honda City problem. I have read in a few reviews that clutch bleeding would need to be done early on. I'll perhaps ask this question to the service centre guys during the 1st service.

4) Clutch

Not a particularly enjoyable thing - the dead pedal coming in the way of a full clutch press. I've tried to adjust my left foot with the sole turned slightly inward and this helps a bit. This is irritating especially when you downshift. The risk of changing gears with a half-hearted clutch press remains. Hopefully, I'll get used to driving with the left foot position changed.

5) Braking

I have not tested it fully yet since the car is still in the run-in phase ( 1st 1000 kms). The manual specifically advices against sudden braking, so I am taking it a bit slow. However, if the little experience I've had during the V.Kunj to Gurgaon drive in Delhi is anything to go by, the brakes are encouraging. I've tried braking from 70kms to a full halt twice and the distance to halt was never an issue. With ABS and EBD, I hope the brakes never cause a problem.

6) Acceleration & Pick up

The City is not in the league of the Ford Fiesta Classic 1.6 petrol when it comes to pick up and acceleration. If speed, acceleration and pick up thrill you, Honda City is definitely not the car for you. However, overtaking a truck at 60kmph is not a problem as long as you are in the right gear.

Unlike diesel engines where the torque give you a boost after 2K rpm (e.g. Tata manza), I found that the City is far more uniform in it's acceleration delivery. It can't beat the big SUV daddies on the road, but will eat all the other mid level sedan's (barring Ford Fiesta ) for breakfast at sub 60kmph.

7) Boot space

The boot is large. It could easily fit three large size suitcases in without difficulty. I dropped my father to the railway station a few days back and did not have any difficulty fitting three pieces in.

The only sore point, if at all, is that it has no dedicated leather holder in to fit a standard fuel additive (aka System G). The Corsa had a leather holder attached to the left side of the boot which could fit 2 fuel additive bottles.

8) Front & rear windshields

This one is a disappointment.

Visibility through the front windshield is particularly difficult when the sun is directly on it. The dashboard reflection on the front glass definitely obstructs clear vision. From recollection, I did not have this problem in my Corsa. I don't have a particularly difficult time in Zen as well. Is this because the dashboard is larger (to fit the airbags?). A question - Is there any way of fixing this. will a sunfilm help or worsen the situation?

Visibility of the rear traffic as seen through the rear view mirror is again not particularly good as well. Again, the reflection of the insides of the car on the rear windshield impairs clear vision. Also, perhaps due to the defogger, the visibility is not that good. The last few weeks have been particularly humid in Delhi and the windshield does become misty. I've tried using the rear defogger to see if it helps, but the results are not fully encouraging. Again, this is something I will ask the service station when I go and see them for my 1st service.

9) Suspension

The suspension is top class. It handles normal city bumps without a problem. Despite the much spoken about low ground clearance, I've not had a case where the bottom of the car had to scrape the road. There were a few occassion when I forgot to slow down before a speed breaker and the car handled the jerk without scaring the passengers

10) Drivers Seat & Seat Covers

S-MT has a height adjustable drivers seat and that helps. I did not have any problem aligning the seat height, tilt and rake to a comfortable position. The seat covers that I got fixed with the car are comfortable.

The good part about the poly-leather(leatherite) seat covers is that it generates very little dust inside the car unlike traditional cloth covers that absorb dust. Cleaning the car is easy.

11) Foot mats

This is again a disappointment. It soaks in the water when the cleaner cleans it in the morning. I have now instructed him to clean it dry instead. The normal rubber mats? do not have this issue.

12) Cubby holes

There are quite a few cubby holes in the car but very few would fit in a 1ltr water bottle comfortably. However, one impressive area to store a medium size bag is surprisingly underneath the rear seat. Very thoughtful !

13) Mileage

I've done 750kms till now and the mileage is 10.7 kmpl (two tankfuls). I hope it improves.

Enjoying every moment!

Will upload pics in the next few days.

Update - The reverse parking mirror is irritating me. It keeps coming off the main mirror in addition to vibrating badly when the car is in motion. Any ideas on how to overcome this problem?

Last edited by raj_srini : 25th September 2011 at 16:07.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:43   #2
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Initial Ownership Forum. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:56   #3
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Smile Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

@raj

Congratulations on the City. Truly now the City is the VFM buy when compared to the peers in the segment. Enjoy the ride and drive safely. Happy mile crunching.

Please do upload some pics of your ride.

What confused me is that how did you do the TBHP checklist on just the booking amount of the Etios. Didn't the Toyota dealer promised to take care of the flaws or did they not attempt to allot you a different car with less on the odo.

Also regarding your reverse parking mirror, was it not clipped to the OEM IRVM? What brand is the reverse parking sensors you opted for?
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:07   #4
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

congrats for New City Purchase.
Well it was very well thought decision to go for Petrol if you dont have much running.
City is pleasure to sit inside and drive. you get peace of mind as well with Honda aftersales.
enjoy the drive.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:30   #5
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congrats on your City, very good and wise choice you have made and will not regret (except when the petrol prices increase).
What color did you choose?
Regarding dead pedal problem, try using a smaller width footwear (shoes/sandals) while driving and try to keep the foot little away from the dead pedal.
You will get the knack of this trick quickly and it is a matter of time.
Michelin tires is the best among the choices offered by Honda, please wait for sometime for the tire wear and then make a conclusion.
What are the upgrades and accessories planned?

HC
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:34   #6
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

I don't agree with your point "The City is not in the league of the Ford Fiesta Classic 1.6 petrol when it comes to pick up and acceleration." .

Speed and acceleration ANHC beats Ford fiesta or any other car in this segment. It can reach 100 kmph in 10 seconds, no other car in this segment has matched till now. Even new verna with more bhp dont reach 100 kmph as fast as ANHC. But yes, fiesta handling is better.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:54   #7
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Hi Raj,

Congratulations on your City. Wish you many happy miles with the beauty. For floor mats try getting the 3D Kagu mats. They are supposed to be extremely good.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:58   #8
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congratulations and welcome to the ANHC club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post
What I don't like about the car
1) The Michelin XM1 tyres are making a lot of noise (I second libran's view). The 3M underbody coating has apparently not helped. To top it all, the underbody coating was applied only to part of the body.
2) The down gear shift (specially 1st gear) is not easy.
3) The parking sensor mirror that was fitted on top of the original mirror vibrates a lot when the car is in motion.
4) The dead pedal comes in the way of a complete clutch press. (Sadly, this is something I knew well even before I bought the car)
5) The high trunk restricts rear visibility.
6) No auto lock once you enter the car - However, I found out that the car automatically locks itself within a few minutes of activating the door open button in the key from outside(if you do not enter the car by then)
1) My MRFs are noisy too.

2) Completely agree on the downshift to 1st and 2nd. I still feel hesitant gear slotting for the lower gears especially on cold starts. And this is after a clutch bleeding (SA claims it was done) during the 1st service.

6) Auto lock is sorely a missing feature. Much more than the ACC I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post
The engine is absolutely noiseless on idle. In fact there were several times when I tried to start the engine when it was already on. The engine sound is a bother beyond 3000 rpm but that's not a problem with me ( i seldom cross that ).
Of late I have started to notice a little bit of engine sound. Wonder if it is because no oil change was done during the 1st service?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post
11) Foot mats

This is again a disappointment. It soaks in the water when the cleaner cleans it in the morning. I have now instructed him to clean it dry instead. The normal rubber mats? do not have this issue.
For a temporary measure I went with the transparent rubber mats (over the OEM fabric mats) from Reliance Autozone. Not in the league of Kagu 3D mats I suppose, but they are doing their job.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:32   #9
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congrats Raj on your new purchase. The City is indeed a gem of a car which was a bit overpriced but with the recent prices cuts,it's worth each buck it charges. Some features are surely missed. I hope those are incorporated in the refresh version around the corner.

I wonder why you didn't wait for the refreshed version to get launched(you mentioned you were not in a hurry for a new car-but you won't have got the discounts on it though)?
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Old 27th September 2011, 18:44   #10
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congratulation. Quite a journey you have had on your search for sedan. I think you have covered almost all the sedans and picked the best of the lot I can say. Looking forward to the detailed photos.
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Old 27th September 2011, 18:53   #11
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congrats on your new acquisition! A City is really a good and sensible choice. A decision you wouldn't regret. Happy motoring.

PS: Your PM made my day.Feels good to know that I have contributed in a small way to your decision process
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Old 27th September 2011, 19:13   #12
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Many congrats, Raj_srini. Honda City, post the discounts, has become an extremely VFM petrol vehicle and I am sure you took the right decision. And it is one of the best looking cars in town.

Hey, where are the pics? Please post some pics ASAP.
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Old 27th September 2011, 19:28   #13
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post

Srini - Congrats for buying the city

1) Gear Lock (Blackcat)
How much did this cost

Quote:
What I don't like about the car
3) The parking sensor mirror that was fitted on top of the original mirror vibrates a lot when the car is in motion.
I am surprised. Please check if this is fitted correctly. I never encounter this problem

Quote:
4) The dead pedal comes in the way of a complete clutch press. (Sadly, this is something I knew well even before I bought the car)
I also encountered this earlier but one gets used to it



Quote:
13) Mileage
I've done 750kms till now and the mileage is 10.7 kmpl (two tankfuls). I hope it improves.


Please follow the tips given by @mdsaab. I was able to improve my mileage from 11.5 with AC in heavy traffic to 13.5

Last edited by Jaggu : 27th September 2011 at 21:13. Reason: Fixing quotes, please use Preview before posting. Thanks
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Old 27th September 2011, 19:40   #14
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Actually thats not correct. If memory serves correct one of the auto reviews - its available on YoutTube - maybe autocar did a straight sprint to 100 and the new Verna clocked in faster than the city by 0.50 seconds or something - barely a difference but for petrol heads thats enough i guess

will post the link if i can find it again - or rather live through buffering!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamanth View Post
I don't agree with your point "The City is not in the league of the Ford Fiesta Classic 1.6 petrol when it comes to pick up and acceleration." .

Speed and acceleration ANHC beats Ford fiesta or any other car in this segment. It can reach 100 kmph in 10 seconds, no other car in this segment has matched till now. Even new verna with more bhp dont reach 100 kmph as fast as ANHC. But yes, fiesta handling is better.
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Old 27th September 2011, 19:43   #15
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Default Re: A confused soul finally decides to go the Honda City way!

Congratulations on the ANHC!

8.18 lakhs is a really good deal for SMT. Is it inclusive of the accessories?
We need pictures though.

Good thing you got the RSA and Extended Warranty; you never how well it comes handy.

Don't worry about the mileage; I consistently get ~14 with 100% a/c in Gurgaon heat and traffic.

PS : Sold the Corsa? Sacrilege! (I still have my Sail )

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post
What I don't like about the car
1) The Michelin XM1 tyres are making a lot of noise (I second libran's view). The 3M underbody coating has apparently not helped. To top it all, the underbody coating was applied only to part of the body.
The Michelins are noisy, no doubt. 3M underbody coating is hog-wash, waste of money. Vehicles in NCR don't need it.

Quote:
3) The parking sensor mirror that was fitted on top of the original mirror vibrates a lot when the car is in motion.
Really? Have it checked, the mirror in mine doesn't shake that much.

I have Blackcat reverse sensors too. Btw, the display on the mirror went off exactly a few days after warranty expired (1 yr). Be careful and get it replaced the moment you notice the fading of the readings. Else, it costs 1400.

Quote:
5) The high trunk restricts rear visibility.
It is indeed a pain; you have to rely completely on the mirrors and sensors; or make someone guide you.

Quote:
Update - The reverse parking mirror is irritating me. It keeps coming off the main mirror in addition to vibrating badly when the car is in motion. Any ideas on how to overcome this problem?
You should have it checked during 1st free service; the fitting seems inappropriate.

Now leave aside all this and begin a great ownership period!

Last edited by libranof1987 : 27th September 2011 at 19:46.
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