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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:29   #106
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Default Re: Fluidic Disappointment

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
You are exchanging a bad-handling car with an average-handling car? You cannot compare the Ford's handling with either of these two cars, really
Every car has got a basic theme in design phase, and for Optra its a cruiser (tourer) and not a sports activity vehicle. The primary focus is on comfort and mile munching ability without effort. Fiesta would be a better handler, but then you cannot expect the same comfort , especially at backseat. So it is a tradeoff to deal with. Having used both of these cars, I would say Optra Magnums justify its purpose very well. Handling of this car is of course not par with its German competitions, but then you are paying only for what you get.

Recently my Optra had hit a pothole at high speeds while overtaking a truck on a two lane road and both the left side tires got burst. The car was occupied with 4 adults and a baby plus their luggage, but there was no panic felt inside the car. The car was in full control, and I could stop it on side lane without swearing or side swiping the truck at my left. And in the process no one in the car got woke up. And the best part is, just changed the tires and I am back on road again.

-HCP

Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 23rd September 2011 at 16:38.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 16:53   #107
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Default Re: Fluidic Disappointment

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Originally Posted by vidyabhushan View Post
Are you serious??
130 kph is not safe in Optra - Merc??
Dude in my family, I have a Chevy Optra, Skoda Superb, Honda City, Toyota Altis, Merc E class and now a Skoda Yeti.
In all of these (except City and Altis) I have comfortably cruised at 150+ without the engine / tyres complaining, not even my wife (who is usually paranoid about speeding). City (Exclusive AT) was never comfortable at 100+ and I can live with that because City is built to be a city car, not a highway jet.
All skodas, Chevy Optra and definitely the likes of Merc / BMW / Audis can easily touch 160 - 180 without breaking a sweat, and stop within a comfortable braking distance from the same speed.
130 kmph isn't the problem here doing it on the Sea link road which has been the scene of many accidents due to such rash driving is.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...nk-mumbai.html (Accidents on the Bandra Worli Sea Link in Mumbai)

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Old 23rd September 2011, 17:21   #108
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Default Re: Fluidic Disappointment

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
You are exchanging a bad-handling car with an average-handling car? You cannot compare the Ford's handling with either of these two cars, really
The Chevy is not an average handling car, its a really good handler. Its weakest point is those silly OEM JK tires. But this baby handles good even with those useless tires.
The best part about chevy's handling is that its very forgiving. If you make a high speed mistake(overcorrect or undercorrect) its easy to recover. Very few powerful machines let you recover. This truly shows a well sorted chasis and road manner. When I road tested the chevy, I was truly alarmed. I did not expect something like this to come from GM, esp since I had driven their boat like barges in the US.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 17:26   #109
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

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Originally Posted by phenomonstar View Post
I WANT THIS BEAST!

I am taking delivery during Navratri days, and will update with my initial ownership experience soon!
And trust me, you will enjoy every bit of it. Magnum is an excellent and VFM car for any enthusiast, but highly underrated. I only have grin on my face after having owned Magnum for 3.5+ years now, and still going strong.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 17:48   #110
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

Given the varied responses this thread has evoked, I went again to the opening post and re-read the whole post again. IMO this is not just about handling per se, but about various dislikes in the Verna. Maybe he got a lemon or a car with some issues (in suspension mainly) ?? See below - my comments in bold :

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomonstar
1) The steering response is very lazy. I felt I had to work extra to make it behave like I wanted it to.
2) The rear seats, are placed so low, that, inspite of the generous leg room, anything more than an hour in them would make the passengers very uncomfortable.
3) I thought the different handling was something I needed to get used to. But as the days passed, I got more and more disappointed with the handling. At speeds above 70 the car fish-tails slightly. I needed to grip the steering wheel tightly. {SB} - the car fish-tails at 70kmph on a straight line ? That is strange.

4) Also I got the feeling that any bump or change in the road level would make my car 'take off'. {SB} Did you happen to check the air-pressure in your wheels ? Sometimes cars from factory come with ridiculously high psi (our A-Star came with 45psi+) which could give this bouncing feeling.

5) Ive driven it in a straight drag on the Sea-Link at speeds upto 130. The engine felt like it could go much faster, but the body roll and handling scared me. {SB} - you said car fish-tails above 70. If so, I am not sure I would dare to drive that car at 130. And could you elaborate on the "body roll & handling" you mention ?

6)We 've owned Fiats, Skodas, Fords and Mercs ever since.
These cars feel firmly planted at any speed and go exactly where you point them.

7)The Fluidic was just too ....err..... different for my liking. Never felt safe taking it beyond 80kmph.

8) The second major beef I 've had with the car is the suspension.
I knew beforehand that the suspension would be on the softer side, but this was just ridiculous. Any unexpected pothole, even at speeds as low as 30kmph would be met with a loud 'THWACK' coming in from the undercarriage. {SB} That sounds odd too at those low speeds. Maybe the car had some suspension issues, which explain this and some of the earlier issues ???
The OP mentions his Fusion as a good handler, giving an example of it swallowing potholes with ease, which is more to do with the suspension than with handling - so are we confusing things here ? Also given people's responses about how they have driven at so-and-so speed and not seen any handling issues, is handling about speed ? Driven in a straight line, most cars would do good. What matters is when the car has to step off that line and at high speeds - at curves or a sudden swerve to avoid something, a sudden change of lane at hi-speed etc. I am not sure what the OP tried on these lines before calling the Verna a poor handler. I might be wrong, but I think it is more the plantedness that he values and which inspires confidence in him and a much heavier Optra will give that compared to a lighter Verna.

Quoting from Wikipedia :
"Automobile handling and vehicle handling are descriptions of the way wheeled vehicles perform transverse to their direction of motion, particularly during cornering and swerving."

BTW, also found this in the wiki-page, which suggests, that over time things could have changed for the OP.
"Handling is a property of the car, but different characteristics will work well with different drivers.
Familiarity : A person learns to control a car much as he learns to control his body, so the more he has driven a car or type of car the better it will handle for them. One needs to take extra care for the first few months after buying a car, especially if it differs in design from those they are used to. Other things that a driver must adjust to include changes in tires, tire pressures and load. That is, handling is not just good or bad; it is also the same or different."

P.S.: BTW, I see that OP has been thanked 23 times and all of it has been for his initial post in this thread.

Note : I am not a Hyundai fan & never been in a Verna, let alone drive it. I am just analysing the situation and trying to see what went wrong.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 23rd September 2011 at 17:54.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 18:58   #111
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

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Originally Posted by phenomonstar View Post
Now maybe, it is because Ive not driven a Japanese / Korean car in this segment for a very long time. The last Far eastern car my family had was the Suzuki Esteem, in 1994.

One of them had the audacity to lecture me on the 'correct ' way to drive.
HA! I told them with all modesty that Id been driving for nearly two decades, a variety of cars, in a variety of countries.

The Maruti Suzuki Esteem 1994 is a very different beast from modern day cars. I have a Maruti Suzuki Esteem 2004 Di and it too has a hydraulic power steering as opposed to the electronic power steering that most cars today have.

BTW, about the lecture on the correct way to drive, I took up lessons on driving a manual transmission when I moved to India and my driving instructor would tell me, "You need to practice steering," and that comes to me after 3 years of driving!
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Old 23rd September 2011, 20:45   #112
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

The handling is the main problem with almost all Hyundai cars.They make cars that look like barbie dolls.Thats it. The cars appeal to the heart more than they do to the mind. And the deal sealer is the interiors .They just make any one go ga-ga once they sit inside and tilt their heart heavily in favour of the car .The bottomline is ,80% of aam-junta "don't know" about handling.They are too happy with light steering and soft ride .They dont bother about steering feedback nor high speed stability.

I own an i20.Its the closest i have come to travelling in a boat without actually doing so! . I once was doing 110 kmph on NH7 and there was some undulation on the road.And boy! the car kept rocking back and forth like a cradle cooning a baby for the next 200-300 meters.And i keep the pressure at 32 PSI all tires.I tell you what,it can put the passengers to sleep if you go on the few undulations continuously . I was so disappointed then.Lots of power is there in the 1.4 CRDI mill,but not harnessed properly.

The current Hyundai does not know to make good handling cars.Period
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Old 24th September 2011, 07:27   #113
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomonstar View Post
I had only one thing to say ; I WANT THIS BEAST!

Features and all the bells and whistles be damned , this car is a sure footed monster, the independent suspension laughing at the rough roads. The high speed drives are a sheer pleasure.

I have booked myself the higher end LT version with leather seats, airbags, ABS...etc. and got a mighty good deal too.
Exactly my words - I WANT THE BEAST! (and I got it too!) The feeling is great and you can't get over it.
Congrats on your decision! I had similar reactions with the Fluidic, and when compared with the Optra... - well you already know it, and you booked it!
Wish you many pleasurable drives ahead! I have owned the beast for 4 months (8000 km) now and 'I am lovin' it'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4.Cars View Post
2) Good that you like the chevy optra, but bear in mind this car is due a replacement soon.
The Cruze is the Optra's replacement, so what other replacement are you talking about here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomonstar View Post
Even if it would have been named PREMIER PADMINI, Id have still have gone for it.
Well said. Many asked me as to why I chose GM and not some other brand - it was because I chose the car, not the brand!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Boss, you're one old enough member to comment like this!!

Bad-handling/good-handling is absolutely subjective and totally depending on owner's requirements.
And this is what I mean. To each his own.
And this is what I mean too. To each his own.
+1 to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Optra is good enough but not as good as a swift
I own a Swift and now I have an Optra. I love both my cars and have good memories of many miles of pleasurable drives. The Swift definitely has peppier handling than the Optra, but that does not mean that the Optra's handling is not as good as the Swift. The kind of feedback that the Optra's hydraulic setup gives is just excellent - the EPS in the Swift lacks that feel.
The Optra's handling gives a very solid feel, but I have never found it sluggish in the 8000 kms that I have driven in traffic, on highways and in alleys and lanes as well.
As Rudra sir has said, this is subjective - the Swift's steering that I love in the city is something that scares me on the highways, whereas the Optra's steering gives such a level of confidence that there was no panic even when my front tyre burst on the e-way at 120! (Imagine that in the Swift)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Fact that some one is willing to give a 2 hour TD itself means that the car has lost much appeal and the sales figures do reflect the same. It is definite past its prime.
Woah! Instead of appreciating the fact that the dealer allowed a 2 hour TD (which is really commendable), you are berating the car! Normally, when the car loses appeal, the sales people stop promoting the cars, so your logic is going the wrong way.
And by the way you think, it seems that for you, the appeal of a product is inversely proportional to the time spent by the sales person with you

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Actually GTO, You've said what is literally the bleeding obvious statement. Instead of taking such a hit on a new car - aftermarket shocks could've made his ride much more stiff and lowered as well. A sleeper of a verna I say.

At some level, I am hitting my head - its so darned obvious now that you've said it. Wonder why it never struck our OP!
You could probably hit it some more . Has it not struck anyone else that by changing the shocks, he would be voiding the warranty of his car, and that it was a much wiser decision to sell the car at 800 km and get the maximum benefit. Has it also occured to anyone that the suspension might not be the only issue - the Fluidic is light in the front like most Hyundais and does not give a secure feel, and the power also seems to lack - how will suspensions solve this?

Also, the rear suspension is a torsion beam, not independent suspension, so how can the 'fluidic' feel be attributed purely to suspensions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sorry to say, and with due respect, your buying experience & eventual decision are full of errors.

Mistake No. 4 : And this one is the BIGGEST. You sold the car in a 1,000 clicks! Sure sounds like an impulsive decision to me, and a very poor one at that. Remember, the suspension of most globally sold cars is the easiest to sort out. Reason? Super after-market support. For 50,000 rupees (or less), you could have gotten yourself after-market dampers & springs that would have transformed the handling of your Verna. In fact, with a tyre upgrade + performance suspension, the handling & dynamics would have beaten / been on par with any C & C+ segment sedan. Again, I insist that the soft suspension is easy to fix...far easier than what some of the competitors suffer from (reliability, cramped interiors etc.).
GTO, with all due respect, for once I think that your suggestion is misleading. What phenom has done here seems to be the logical thing to do!
He did not like the way the car felt, the handling, the power etc.. He had two options :

1. Fiddle around with a brand new car, fit aftermarket components, and void the warranty. After that, if he still did not feel satisfied, he would have been left with a new car that has lost it's warranty + a bill of all the extras! If he would have tried to sell it then, he would have lost a lot of money - much much more than what he did now.

2. Cut the losses, sell the car and go for something he likes. The car was at only 800 kms on the ODO, many people were in waiting for this car, so the odds of getting a good price were high (and I suppose he did get a good deal). This seems to be the more sensible option, which he rightly chose, so calling it the BIGGEST mistake is a tad unfair!

Amongst all those who are in for changing the suspension, how many of you all would be happy voiding the warranty of your brand new car??

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
And you've gone out and bought a depreciation disaster like the Optra that will lose about 4 - 5 lakhs in resale in the first year.
4 - 5 lakhs depreciation in the first year will only happen if the car has had a major accident or if you are trying to sell the car with some serious fault!

After reading a lot about the poor resale value of the Optra (and after having bought a new one), I started looking for another Optra ( a used one), so that I could start tinkering with the car and turn it into a monster! Unfortunately, I could not find a single Optra Magnum (lots of petrols, but no diesels). I did find one from 2009, but the asking price was 8L! The used car dealers also said that magnums hardly come in for sale, and when they do, they get lapped up fast - and most of them at the asking price! (I also carried out the same exercise when NoRules was trying to get hold of a user Magnum - same results)

In case you do come across a 1 year old Magnum in good condition and reasonable running at 4-5 lakhs off, please be kind enough to PM me as soon as possible - I will definitely be interested!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenomonstar View Post


I have taken an extensive TD of the Optra, subjecting it to all sorts of driving styles, from sedate in heavy traffic roads to pot hole ridden by lanes to the sea link stretch. I am very pleased with the handling and driving dynamics.
Also, I plan to keep this car for 3 - 3.5 years at the most.. No more.
The Optra is costing me 10,30,000 OTR Mumbai registration.

but if I have to make do with a manual transmission, Id rather look for value AND performance.
The Optra is excellent VFM for me.
Kudos!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post

The move from the Verna to a Optra is like moving from a small speed boat to a slightly larger and faster speed boat. The end result, your still piloting a boat. A more dangerous one at that.
I think that you should seriously TD the Verna, the Optra and a couple of boats!
My Optra's front tyre burst when I was driving at a speed of 120. The car handled so well that there was absolutely no panic and I could take my car to the side lane with ease, so calling it dangerous is incorrect! On the contrary, it feels extremely solid and you do not feel any kind of fear/instability/apprehension at speeds over 180 kmph!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
4,000 buyers a month will surely not fall for it consistently. For regular city use, it seems to be a popular car these days.
Noop, mob mentality exists everywhere. People follow the crowds - thats a fact! And except for a few who would really get into the specs of a vehicle, most of the customers get carried away by the looks and the gizmos.

Like phenom, there were thousands of people who had booked the Fluidic without the test drive (most did not even see the car!) - all this just by the ads and the posters, just like the Vento which caught everyones eye (or rather ear) by the Talking Ad (hats off to VW for that), even when it was not available for TD.
One of my friends TDed a Vento petrol and booked a diesel. So judging by numbers can be deceptive (hence my tagline)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
GTO -

2) The monthly sales graph does suggest that the Optra is not setting the charts on fire, but does it goes to show that the product is BAD?

5) Perceptions, there would be people who love the pre owned cars and who do not (I for one don't), this has been repeated over and over again: it depends how long you would want to keep the car should be the deciding factor that should make you think of the perceived losses.

Happy Motoring !!
+1. Agree on both points here! Just because the market did not accept a product does not make the product bad - it's just a matter of wrong place, wrong time, bad luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by throttleking View Post
And trust me, you will enjoy every bit of it. Magnum is an excellent and VFM car for any enthusiast, but highly underrated. I only have grin on my face after having owned Magnum for 3.5+ years now, and still going strong.
Not just any grin! It's that stupid happy grin that a li'l boy gets on his face when he has just been given a visit by Santa (Claus not Singh). I know it, I wear that grin everyday when I drive my Optra as well!




@Phenom.
Do check out this and this post. I have had some issues with the Apollos on my Optra - they are too soft! As also posted by someone else here, his tyres had burst when he hit a pothole. I would suggest going in for slightly harder tyres (Bridgestones, JK or MRF) instead of the stock Apollos.

Last edited by GTO : 25th September 2011 at 23:24. Reason: No more than 2 smileys per post please
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Old 24th September 2011, 08:07   #114
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

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Woah! Instead of appreciating the fact that the dealer allowed a 2 hour TD (which is really commendable), you are berating the car! Normally, when the car loses appeal, the sales people stop promoting the cars, so your logic is going the wrong way.
And by the way you think, it seems that for you, the appeal of a product is inversely proportional to the time spent by the sales person with you
Fair point from a customer perspective. From the dealer point this is a disaster in terms of cost control and productivity. One of the major pain areas for dealers is TD associated costs. You must not look at that fact of this case in isolation as sales was made after a TD of 2 hours. In Two hours one would have driven for 25-30 kms. If every one does such long TD's it is a disaster in making for the dealership viability. Secondly how does one control the fact that the sales person is not going on a joy rides? Imagine 20 sales people taking cars on 2 hours TD with their customers each

Optra has power, handles well, warranty etc but you cannot take away the fact that it is dated and because of this does not hold resale value.

In the past I used to have a Opel Astra diesel and have driven it extensively. Great car with comfort, handling etc but it did not cut much ice as it was dated (I had towards the fag end) and had poor resale value. The maintenance cost was unbelievably high

As you rightly agreed and what other have posted, each one his own. You must buy a car which suits your driving style and your comfort. If you did not do a TD, not done enough research before buy the car, it is your fault not the cars!

Cheers

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Old 24th September 2011, 10:18   #115
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

@keyur,

Optra is there in the market for about 4 to 5 years now, it is definetely due a replacement, GM is not MSIL to sell one product for more than 10 years.

Wait and watch, within a year or 2 optra, aveo and aveo UVA will be extinct.

Secondly your telling you never found a 2nd hand optra for less than 8lakhs, yes your right, but go and try selling your car, get a quote you will know the truth.

Its simple business my friend, what GTO says is true, i'll explain below,

Optra,Aveo etc such cars have huge depericiation, about 30-40% in the first year.
when you go to sell such cars they will buy the cars at 30-40% less and try to sell it a very higher rate because first of all not many cars will be there in the market, 2nd because the person who will buy such a car like optra will buy the car easily if he is offered the car at 80% of the showroom price.(if its well maintained and less driven)

If you have some friends who are 2nd hand car dealers, have a chat with them, they will tell you they make least margin in MSIL cars but with brands like GM, Ford, Honda these guys make good margins, in order words it is easy to con a customer here by offering low resale value and try selling the car to another customer at higher prices and make good profits.

Cheers

Last edited by Crazy4.Cars : 24th September 2011 at 10:20.
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Old 24th September 2011, 16:23   #116
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

phenomonstar, I feel you are more disappointed over money lost over the 800 odd kms that your drove, rather than the driving dynamics part. I feel pity of you, & the snap second decisions that you have made.

I understand a person who has driven a Ford model in the past (which are not exactly American cars, but UK models of the Escort & Fiesta with boot) that are are much better handlers as compared to Hyundais (which are better off for driving conditions that are in America or South Korea, which has much better roads as compared to India), will never be satisfied with a Verna.

But, please do not tell me that your drove on Mumbai roads at high speeds, else I would recommend that you understand the essence of TBHP, rather than boasting about your high speed driving (s)kills.

I would second many who have pointed out that you made a mistake by not going for a test ride & understand that you have learnt a costly lesson. I fear to tell you that I agree with many others that Optra Magnum may not be the best choice, but, as an overall package the Optra Magnum scores high, & please accept my well wishes for a wonderful ownership experience.
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Old 24th September 2011, 19:07   #117
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

My wife is looking at upgrading to the Fluidic Verna in a few months time.

Now this thread has set me thinking.

She likes the soft suspension of the i-10 compared to my Esteem. So I assume she will like the Fluidic Verna as well, on the suspension aspect ?

Maybe folks who have driven both the i-10 and the Verna extensively can throw some light on this ?

Of course, we promise to do a TD before the moolah is plonked in
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Old 24th September 2011, 23:51   #118
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Default Re: Fluidic Disappointment

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I did not expect something like this to come from GM, esp since I had driven their boat like barges in the US.
That's because Optra is a Korean car (Daewoo) whose suspension has been fine tuned by the guys at Lotus. Hyundai needs to take the assistance of the Lotus engineering team for all their future cars. Mahindra & Force Motors already do that for their SUVs.

Also, Optra is one of the rare cars with independent rear suspension (Honda Civic is another car that comes with the same setup) and that aids both ride and handling. Most Indian cars have semi-independent torsion beam setup at the rear. When you push the Optra to the limit, it will understeer eventually - but oh so slowly. The best part is you can feel it through the steering wheel, and just lifting off the accelerator pedal will ensure that you won't end up in a ditch.

Last edited by smartcat : 24th September 2011 at 23:57.
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Old 25th September 2011, 00:37   #119
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

8 pages of concentrated reading later i am still confused. My TD unfortunately happened in South Delhi , where i would be lucky to hit 60 - i did not have a problem with the car , neither did my wife - maybe the speeds were too low - but i have to add that more than my opinion i considered my wife's , till recently she was driving a fiat 1957 ,and she is an aggressive driver - so.

incidentally , whats the waiting period for the Verna petrol now?
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Old 25th September 2011, 11:55   #120
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Default Re: Hyundai Verna Fluidic Disappointment. And SOLD!

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Originally Posted by puchoo View Post
8 pages of concentrated reading later i am still confused. My TD unfortunately happened in South Delhi , where i would be lucky to hit 60 - i did not have a problem with the car , neither did my wife - maybe the speeds were too low - but i have to add that more than my opinion i considered my wife's , till recently she was driving a fiat 1957 ,and she is an aggressive driver - so.

incidentally , whats the waiting period for the Verna petrol now?
If you loved the car during TD , go ahead and buy it . This is a very extreme example, is not a representative case. I seriously don't believe that the 4 thousand odd people who are buying this car month on month are plain morons who are only enticed by the blings. No car out there is perfect , the car that you choose to buy should depend on what compromise you can live with and what factors are absolute non negotiable for you.
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