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Old 2nd October 2011, 01:04   #1
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Default Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Finally, woes pertaining to my 3 year old TATA Indigo comes to an end
(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ighlight=delta (Delta Motors, Gurgaon (Tata Dealer) :Taking customers for a ride))
Purchased a 'pre-worshipped' 2006 Black Honda Civic 1.8 S @ 37 kms.
Took me about 3-4 months in finding the right car at a VFM price.
In the process I would have seen about 7-8 civics, before finalizing the one I own now. Common issues in other cars were a hard clutch, and uninspiring acceleration. Evaluated only 2006-2008 models due to budget constraints.

- Alternatives that were considered - None. Was clear from Day 1, that the upgrade would be a Civic.
- Very cordial and co-operative seller. Genuine people. The car's well maintained condition speaks volumes about the mindset of previous owners.
- Its a 1.8 S. Plan to add fog lights and leather seats later.
- The good and / or bad about its equipment levels: Airbags, ABS, Dead Pedal, Auto Side View Mirrors, Climate Control, Tilt Steering, Audio Controls on the backseat, Driver Seat Height Adjuster, Ample and well sorted storage space to store nick-knacks.
- Equipments missed: Steering mounted audio controls, Driver Info system, Cruise Control (I know am asking more).
- kms completed at the time of writing review: 38 k
- Usage pattern Avg 10 kms daily in gurgaon traffic with a weekend trip to Meerut every week.
- Exterior styling & design: Best designed car, looks fresh even today.
- Overall build quality and fit & finish: The car is not as strong as a Indigo, but still is far more better than tin plates these days. Most importantly, I feel safe and secured inside the car. If I would rate Indigo as 100 on sturdiness, Civic is somewhere around 80.
- Interior design & quality: The most awesome, goose-bump inducing, envy causing interior ever. Period.
- Interior space and comfort: I got a new life after migrating from Indigo.
- Air conditioner, seat support, ergonomics and other noteworthy interior points: Very effective AC. Auto mode works best.
- Engine performance & driveability in the city: Initial acceleration was a bit of a challenge in stop and go traffic, lack of torque initially was being felt (Keep on reading for what I did to address this).
- Engine performance & driveability on the highway: One word, Great. This is where you unleash the beast.
- Overall opinion on the engine: Its a gem of a motor. Free revving, easy to drive. Felt like am driving a big toy car. Of course I was driving a truck before.
- Gearshift / transmission quality, smoothness, response time etc: Gearshift is smooth, responsive accelerator. Clutch pedal has fair amount of reflex action, though not as hard as Indigo.
- Fuel efficiency : City (10-11) and Highway (12-14)
- Suspension & ride quality: Aargghh, this is where the problem lies. Rear suspension keeps bottoming out. Otherwise if am driving alone, suspension is good. Will upgrade in future.
- Handling, on-road behaviour and grip levels: Super sharp handling, inspires great confidence, can throw her in a corner at speeds around 100.
- Comments on the steering, braking, high speed stability etc.: Stock braking was inadequate as break pads worn out.
- Any particular likes (damped ashtrays, powerful headlights, music system etc.): OEM headlights seem to be weak, OEM system not according to my taste (My Indigo has Clarion 785, Genesis Profile 5, Rainbow 3 way), so you get the drift.
- luggage room: Just about OK.
- ease of ingress/egress: Father facing a bit of challenge as he was used to Indigo's stance. Civics profile is lower.
- Any niggles, problems or part replacements faced: Nothing as of now.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________
Now, the juice:

- Wasn't happy about the acceleration in bumper to bumper traffic conditions in Delhi-NCR.
- Clutch behavior was showing signs of ageing.
- Brakes were almost non-existent.

Off goes the car to Phil@ Speedsport Delhi

- Damages:
- BMC Cold Air Intake.
- Custom FFE.
- Mintex Brake Pads (Front and Rear)
- Suspension repairs (All bushes, and arms only)
- Mobil 1
- Clutch replacement.

Result:
- The car goes like a rocket.
- Hoot to drive.
- Chameleon like behavior. I can drive it normally under disguise keeping the revs below 2k. Press the pedal and Boom! All hell breaks loose. The noise is addictive.
- Stops like anything. Never experienced such a powerful and effortless braking.
- Special thanks to Phil. A wonderful and honest person. The world needs more people like him. Great support and advice. This is what passion can do to your work.

Next steps:
- Upsizing tyres (205/60/R15). Please suggest which one. Performance and low sound levels a priority.
- Lenso alloys (What would be the buyback price).
- Rubber inserts for suspension (In process of sourcing)
- Hella projectors and angel eyes.
- Minor dent and paint work.
- Leather seat covers (Which one?)

ICE:
- Watch this space.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
Help:

- "Yahan bhi panga ho gaya" - Went to a very renowned performance oriented CNG installer. He cheated and tried to fleece money. Lost hard earned Rs.3.5k today. Where shall I post my experience?
- Anyways, threw the CNG kit away as he couldn't match his tall claims. Need to start a separate thread on this as it will help other potential buyers will be beware.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________

So now, grinning from ear to ear . To hell with recessionary trends and cheat CNG installers. Enjoying my life as of now.

Pics will follow of work in progress.

Suggestions are welcome.

- A very special thanks to GTO and his threads on Civic to build my know how and make a well informed decision. Thanks a ton GTO!

Last edited by kumargandharva : 2nd October 2011 at 14:22.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 02:26   #2
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

congrats on the purchase, its a very smart upgrade I must say.
awaiting the pics! Guess GTO has inspired a lot of people to go the lateral upgrade way
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Old 2nd October 2011, 03:34   #3
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumargandharva View Post

Help:

- "Yahan bhi panga ho gaya" - Went to a very renowned performance oriented CNG installer. He cheated and tried to fleece money. Lost hard earned Rs.3.5k today. Where shall I post my experience?
- Anyways, threw the CNG kit away as he couldn't match his tall claims. Need to start a separate thread on this as it will help other potential buyers will be beware.


So now, grinning from ear to ear . To hell with recessionary trends and cheat CNG installers. Enjoying my life as of now.

Pics will follow of work in progress.
Hey! Great to learn that you have gone the lateral upgrade way. Civic is one of the most sensible lateral upgrade cars. However, your post come as surprise to me... One one hand you had done some performance enhancements and have done your bit to do some 'mild' performance upgrades. On the other hand, you went to a CNG installer, knowing fully that the CNG install will definitely blunt the performance. Both the actions are at war with each other! Can you explain what were your intentions What is a 'performance oriented' CNG installer anyway

I toyed with the idea of buying a Civic and putting it to CNG. However, I dropped the idea since I felt that the whole idea of owning Civic is to have fun with the free revving Honda engine. Also, I've barely seen any Civic on CNG, wonder why?

Congrats for buying the 'only' Jap sedan I like in the county today.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 09:03   #4
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Congrats Kumargandhava (nice username BTW)! Another preworshipped civic on the forum. How much did you pay for the beauty. Do share some pics.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 11:31   #5
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Congratulations and welcome to the Civic club.Can you share the the cost of the clutch and the suspension repair work with us.

thanks
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Old 2nd October 2011, 11:50   #6
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

congrats on the new beast, Post some pictures. Happy miles.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 15:05   #7
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Hey! Great to learn that you have gone the lateral upgrade way. Civic is one of the most sensible lateral upgrade cars. However, your post come as surprise to me... One one hand you had done some performance enhancements and have done your bit to do some 'mild' performance upgrades. On the other hand, you went to a CNG installer, knowing fully that the CNG install will definitely blunt the performance. Both the actions are at war with each other! Can you explain what were your intentions What is a 'performance oriented' CNG installer anyway

I toyed with the idea of buying a Civic and putting it to CNG. However, I dropped the idea since I felt that the whole idea of owning Civic is to have fun with the free revving Honda engine. Also, I've barely seen any Civic on CNG, wonder why?

Congrats for buying the 'only' Jap sedan I like in the county today.
Thanks for the complements. Here's what happened on the CNG front:

Name of (Failed) Installer: Autogas India, Near MDI Gurgaon.

Was in search of a CNG installer who can provide a kit for a BMC+FFEed Civic.
Couple of known people told me about autogas and stated that the owner directly imports kits from Italy and has genuine solution available that might match my needs.
Met the owner a month back while I was in process of finalising the deal for the car. He claimed that he is in industry for 15 years and has done CNG fitments on performance oriented cars running on Cold Air Intakes and FFEs, stating air filters are 'good' for CNGs.
He suggested I should go in for a 'Full-Italian' kit with Italian valves, wirings etc. Needless to say it was a 'Sequential Gas Injection System' based kit.
The owner sounded very confident and competent about the job he can do. The showroom was neat and clean as well.
Upon getting the car back from Phil, I approached Autogas and asked him to start the work. He was not there at shop and telephonically requested me to drop the car. He said that he needs complete two days to get the work done to my satisfaction levels.
So here's the timeline, what happened when:
27 Sep: Dropped the car. promised time to pick up the car: 28 Sep 6:00 p.m.
28 Sep: Kit installed. The owner came and tuned the car. Left midway. A worker called and explained bit of problem during tuning. Requested me to collect the car next day 12 noon.
29 Sep: Owner's phon switched off. Called up office, worker said: Saab quarterly closing mein CA ke saath busy hain (Boss is busy with CA for quarterly closing). I said,what the heck, what about my car. Worker asked me to wait till evening.
29 Sep: Eve: Phone switched off. Spoken with worker. Got to know owner is not reachable. Worker called up owner's home, his family unaware about his whereabouts. No clue. My frustraton started mounting. Dropped a message requesting owner to let me know his whereabouts. No response.
30 Sep: Morning: Owner's phone still switched off. Workers having no clue. Family having no clue. Fully frustrated, I dropped a stern message on his phone questioning his credibility and professionalism. During these days I survived on Private taxis to address my office works. Lot of expenses incurred to travel in Delhi-NCR.
30 Sep: Evening: No clue about owner. I asked the worker to return my car next morning without the kit installed. I said I can't rely on people like them.
1 Oct: Morning: Owner called up. Profusely apologised stating he was busy somewhere. I expressed a strong discontent. Owner said the car would be ready in 1 hour.
1 Oct: Noon: Reached the shop along with few of my collegues. Owner was tuning the kit with a laptop installed in my car. Observed low gas pressure. Owner said they didn't had time to take car to a gas station so they transferred the gas from another car!!!Thats why calibration was not happening successfully.
1 Oct: 2pm: Took the car myself to gas station. Got the gas filled. returned to the shop. Tuning resumes. The car is not starting on low revs. Owner confused. He said that air intake in the car very high. Questioned why I have installed air filter. I gave him a questionable look, then he said that he is going to install a bigger injector meant for 3.0lts+ cars.
1 Oct: 3pm: Bigger injector installed. Problem remains the same. Now he said, he will install timing advancer. Installed and set to maximum. Took the car for test drive. Car jerking like anything between 1.5k - 2.5k rpm irrespective of the gear car is in.
1 Oct: 4pm: Owner says, previous plugs weak, not enough spark on CNG, changed original NGK iridium plug to BRISK silver electrode so called performance plugs.
1 OctL 4:30 p.m.: Took the car again for a test drive. Exactly the same problem. Reveresed the injector to previous one as he said bigger injector not working. Changed spark plugs to original one. Timing advancer on. Problem remains the same.
1 Oct 5:00 p.m.: Owner conocts a story, said he promised performance on a K&N not on a BMC asked me to return with a K&N. I was furious. Later on he said some coils might be weak but he was not sure.
1 Oct: 5:30 p.m.: I asked him to remove the kit and give my car back as he failed to deliver on promise. The owner started shouting and said to pay Rs 3000 as lot of wires will be damaged and he has to pay labour to his workers as well. I asked what about keeping my car for 5 days and limiting my mobility, remaining absconding for 2 days, resulting in huge expenses and mental agony for me. The owner said it's your problem and he won't be able to help it. Says pay 3k and take the car.
1 Oct 6:00 p.m.: Spoken with a known person, he advised to avoid any confrontation as the car is still with him and he might cause any damage. He advised to pay the money and take an invoice for later action. I agreed to pay the money by card and asked him to generate the invoice. The owner demanded Rs 500 additional on a/c of tax and payment by card charges. I agreed.
1 Oct 6:15 p.m.: The owner asked me to come back after 2 hours as it is the standard time to remove the kit. Suspecting his intentions me and my colleagues refused to budge from there and asked them to remove the kit infront of us. In the interim, the owner misbehaved with my collegues who kept their cool. He alleges us wasting his time. Two more new customers witnessing this chaos, chose not to take Autogas's services and went away.
1 Oct: 7:00 p.m.: Surprisingly entire kit dismantled and removed in 45 minutes which took 2 days in getting installed. I asked the workers to hand me over the damaged parts/wires. The owner refused to do so stating he will not give the wires back.
1 Oct: 7:15 p.m: He gave me a bill dated 29th Sep. I refused to accept the bill stating payment date is 1 oct. He started shouting and said the bill was prepared on 29th worth Rs 60000 and he has reduced the amount. After we persisted, angrily he went in his cabin and arrived with a new bill dated 1st Oct. In the interim he shouted again on my collegue who was insisting that his behavior is completely unprofessional.
1 Oct: 7:30: Took a test drive. The workers left newly drycleaned interiors very dirty. The car was running fine though. The owner tried to force me to sign a satisfaction note. I didn't and left his shop after taking the car and the invoice.
1 Oct: 8:00 p.m.: I observed a panel stuffed with some foam pad lying unattended on the rear parcel trays. Those buggers must have forgot to put it back.
Terribly bad experience. Planning to lodge a case in consumer forum. Also this review would deter all potential CNG buyers to stay away from his shop. A highly unethical, unprofessional, inefficient person.
Please advice what shall I do. I still believe that with a competent tuner and a sequential kit, the installation is definitely possible.

Last edited by kumargandharva : 2nd October 2011 at 15:10.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 15:39   #8
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Congratulations and welcome to the Civic club.Can you share the the cost of the clutch and the suspension repair work with us.

thanks
Thanks a ton, the clutch work costed about 10k and suspension work costed about 22 k including labor. I've retained the old dampers and coil, rest almost everthing related with suspension has been changed.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 12:17   #9
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Waiting for the suggestions about tackling the CNG issue.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 14:54   #10
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Default Re: Lateral Upgrade: The Dark Knight: Honda Civic

Sorry to hear about your CNG ordeal. I would suggest you lodge a complaint immediately with the consumer forum and also avoid installing CNG kit in the Civic. It's a great car with a gem of an engine. So enjoy it rather than spoiling its performance using a CNG kit.
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Old 10th October 2011, 14:15   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumargandharva View Post
Finally, woes pertaining to my 3 year old TATA Indigo comes to an end
(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ighlight=delta (Delta Motors, Gurgaon (Tata Dealer) :Taking customers for a ride))
Purchased a 'pre-worshipped' 2006 Black Honda Civic 1.8 S @ 37 kms.
Took me about 3-4 months in finding the right car at a VFM price.
In the process I would have seen about 7-8 civics, before finalizing the one I own now. Common issues in other cars were a hard clutch, and uninspiring acceleration. Evaluated only 2006-2008 models due to budget constraints.
How much did the BMC intake and the mintex pads cost you? I am considering using them on my civic.

Last edited by mobike008 : 8th October 2012 at 10:27. Reason: DO NOT quote large post for a one line reply. It inconveniences our mobile readers
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Old 7th October 2012, 21:54   #12
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Did you got any cng kit or not.
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