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Old 9th July 2012, 21:25   #181
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

@carwatcher:

If any manufacturer things they can take an old can of chinese tuna, put a fresh tuna inside and sell it to Indian consumers as luxury, they got to be kidding. Unfortunately, Force doesn't have the same love for the Indian consumer that you expect us to have for Force Motors.

So you see 25 of them in mumbai and assume it is a success compared to the Rio. I think not.
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Old 9th July 2012, 21:44   #182
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I just find it amusing that folks who find this vehicle appalling for refinement reasons and choose to ignore its solid mechanical underpinnings, return to this thread so often to again bash up the vehicle.

I quite liked this after a test drive; loved the sound of the engine, loved it's ride comfort, handling and performance. Okay there are a few inconsistent panel gaps and less gizmos, but it is definitely VFM for a large Indian family.

The only ghost left to deal with would be the A-S-S from Force and spares availability, coz me already being the owner of one Force vehicle find this the main chink in their armour.
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Old 9th July 2012, 21:59   #183
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I guess there will always be takers in some form or other for these vehicles. Rather like the retro seekers one comes across.

I am not denying that the mechanical underpinnings and old Merc engine may be great etc etc. However, these vehicles are simply a re hashed effort made by their manufacturers to try and cash in on the burgeoning SUV loving middle classes of India.

Unfortunately, they appear to have forgotten that what might have worked perfectly well in the protectionist economy era or even ten years ago, may not work now because consumer expectations are rather significantly different.

Hence I submit that these vehicles, Force One, Rio etc are not likely to be the primary or even secondary choice of the modern, well informed consumer who places some value on comfort, refinement, ergonomics and safety etc.

End of the day, to each his own and may those who choose to buy either the Force One or Rio, have fun with their vehicles. I bear them no grudge.

However, I stand by my (harsh and uncompromising maybe), views on these vehicles as do a large mass of consumers who appear to have already voted with their feet and or wallets, given the singular lack of crowds clamouring for these vehicles and thronging their showrooms, wallets drawn and at the ready, a la the gunslingers of old!

The adage of Love cars Live cars has nothing whatsoever to do with it, I may add!

I also wish to add that there is no offence meant because these notes are simply my opinion.

In a jocular manner, I will say here that very few people other than maybe their own mothers could possibly love and forgive either the Force One or Rio for what they are!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 9th July 2012 at 22:19.
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Old 9th July 2012, 22:15   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@carwatcher:
If any manufacturer things they can take an old can of chinese tuna, put a fresh tuna inside and sell it to Indian consumers as luxury, they got to be kidding. Unfortunately, Force doesn't have the same love for the Indian consumer that you expect us to have for Force Motors.
So you see 25 of them in mumbai and assume it is a success compared to the Rio. I think not.
What made you "thing" (pun intended) that I assume it a success where in first place these comments are not mine. If you make an effort to read (and write) carefully you can clearly understand that I am No fan of this vehicle or defending it but only was surprised by the harsh words used by few learned BHPians. I don't think one should try to read between the lines especially when it is already clarified beyond doubt.(Period)
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Old 9th July 2012, 22:44   #185
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@carwatcher:


So you see 25 of them in mumbai and assume it is a success compared to the Rio. I think not.
I believe you are replying to the wrong person. And yes I wrote what I observed. Also Force One's are being lapped up by rural India at least around Mumbai quite unlike the RiO.

Secondly the One at 11.25lac is certainly value for money when compared with the Duster which has what one airbag and ABS extra (which costs what 30k more?) I have seen panel gaps in the Fluence and Koleos so expect the same in the Duster too
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Old 9th July 2012, 23:04   #186
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I believe you are replying to the wrong person. And yes I wrote what I observed. Also Force One's are being lapped up by rural India at least around Mumbai quite unlike the RiO.
Can't Force One can be considered as an "upgrade" for the typical Bolero customers in the Rural areas.
I also say this because the marketing strategy adopted by the Force motors and Rio for that matter proves that.
Especially the tagline "India mein to Bhai Force hi chalta hai." I don't think any urban guy can buy and show-off this car as his status symbol in the society and office.
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Old 9th July 2012, 23:14   #187
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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
Can't Force One can be considered as an "upgrade" for the typical Bolero customers in the Rural areas.
I also say this because the marketing strategy adopted by the Force motors and Rio for that matter proves that.
Precisely!!! Force One is a useful vehicle for the well off rural farmer. Big enough to carry his extended family, higher ground clearance and solid mechanical underpinnings for rough roads, enough bling bling for showing off to the neighbors and when required a big enough boot space to carry fertilizer bags, fodder, grain sacks etc. If you observe the Force One fb page, most of their new showrooms are in the rural/semi urban areas and the chief guest called for inauguration is the local corporator/mla/rich landlord or panchayat chief. They also hold road shows/ rallies with bikers and a group of Force One's moving from village to village. Innovative approach to sell the vehicle I think. I remember Force claiming a target of 4000 vehicles per year, and I think rural India should easily fulfill that.
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Old 10th July 2012, 07:10   #188
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Well said both carwatcher and apache longbow.
Thanks.

Perhaps it doesn't make much sense for an urban dweller but it certainly can be another choice for the rural heartland whose needs are slightly different and who have been making do with the Bolero and Sumo for a very long time indeed.
Only, I wish they would then offer it with 4WD as an option along with the base safety kit such as ABS and maybe 2 front airbags.

One thing though, I wonder how many such farmers will actually throw some fertilizer bags into the Force One's luggage bay.

Also wonder why while they buy those Mahindra Maxx's and Piaggio Ape's and Tata Magic's, the rural public don't seem remotely interested in the double cab Getaway and / or the Xenon. If it is on account of the price, then in comparison,the Force One offers more in terms of covered cabin and greater seating capacity, so it should appeal a bit more than the above named.
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Old 10th July 2012, 09:03   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post

One thing though, I wonder how many such farmers will actually throw some fertilizer bags into the Force One's luggage bay.

Also wonder why while they buy those Mahindra Maxx's and Piaggio Ape's and Tata Magic's, the rural public don't seem remotely interested in the double cab Getaway and / or the Xenon. If it is on account of the price, then in comparison,the Force One offers more in terms of covered cabin and greater seating capacity, so it should appeal a bit more than the above named.
Oh I personally know 2 gentlemen farmers who use their Safari Vx and Endy to carry coconuts and fertilizer bags for their coconut orchards.

Regarding the getaway/Xenon the main issue is of a luxurious pickup. Same problems such as a targa top car. Too hot and rainy in India, too much of a hassle to keep an open loading bay, if you cover it up, then its merely covered luggage space without ventilation or air-conditioning. For a basic pickup the mahindra max/tata 207 are more than enough, and if the farmer wants to carry 7 people, then the 'luxury' pickup is simply too small.
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Old 10th July 2012, 10:00   #190
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Somehow the double cab seems to work in Thailand, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and so on!

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Regarding the getaway/Xenon the main issue is of a luxurious pickup. Same problems such as a targa top car. Too hot and rainy in India, too much of a hassle to keep an open loading bay, if you cover it up, then its merely covered luggage space without ventilation or air-conditioning.
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Old 10th July 2012, 11:39   #191
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Somehow the double cab seems to work in Thailand, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and so on!
Sri Lanka I don't know, but yes Thailand is the world's second largest market for pickup trucks. This is mainly because of the US influence post world war two. Likewise India's obsession with a 'booted' saloon body style is due to the British heritage we have had for so long.

In our cities pickups are useless, you cant carry your shopping backs in a open load bay,not good for off-roading due to its long body length and load bays are a pain to clean. Rural India uses a lot of pickups but not the high end ones like Xenon. We see so many mahindra max and tata 207 utility vehicles being used in the rural areas. As you rightly pointed out the double cab or crew cab rather, is not a popular body style in India.

My own reason for going in on a Safari instead of a Xenon (even though I was very attracted to the Xenon) was the need for a enclosed air conditioned space at the boot, which I have used to provide for a great music setup. This would not be possible in a Xenon. My Safari is purely used as a 5 seater.
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Old 10th July 2012, 12:20   #192
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Many developed markets actually have use for these crew cabs so that workmen can get from A to B in peace and comfort and safety. Why, the Fortuner is a crew cab in most places outside India as it is based on a Hilux pickup.

We in India will take ages to get there though, I think. Transport of workmen is generally done by packing them like sardines into an old Jeep and rattling about the countryside trails with little or no regard for their comfort or safety.

Anyway I do believe that by now, we are severely off topic and heading further on a tangent so lets knock it off.

The Force One at 11 odd lacs should have ABS at least if it is to compete with the Scorpio because the Scorpio SLE comes with ABS and is priced similarly.
Actually speaking if FORCE ONE could have this excellent safety feature and still remain at a nice price, there will surely be tons of people in the countryside who will opt for it over the Scorpio on account of its greater seating capacity, size and possibly, comfort, ride etc.



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Sri Lanka I don't know, but yes Thailand is the world's second largest market for pickup trucks. This is mainly because of the US influence post world war two. Likewise India's obsession with a 'booted' saloon body style is due to the British heritage we have had for so long.

In our cities pickups are useless, you cant carry your shopping backs in a open load bay,not good for off-roading due to its long body length and load bays are a pain to clean. Rural India uses a lot of pickups but not the high end ones like Xenon. We see so many mahindra max and tata 207 utility vehicles being used in the rural areas. As you rightly pointed out the double cab or crew cab rather, is not a popular body style in India.

My own reason for going in on a Safari instead of a Xenon (even though I was very attracted to the Xenon) was the need for a enclosed air conditioned space at the boot, which I have used to provide for a great music setup. This would not be possible in a Xenon. My Safari is purely used as a 5 seater.
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Old 10th July 2012, 14:07   #193
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post

The Force One at 11 odd lacs should have ABS at least if it is to compete with the Scorpio because the Scorpio SLE comes with ABS and is priced similarly.
Actually speaking if FORCE ONE could have this excellent safety feature and still remain at a nice price, there will surely be tons of people in the countryside who will opt for it over the Scorpio on account of its greater seating capacity, size and possibly, comfort, ride etc.
Yes I agree. I also understand from Force Motor's previous media comments that they were looking at introducing Force One 4x4 and Abs/airbags in future versions sometime late 2012. So we should see them soon. And due to the great pricing by Duster I do hope Force prices the new car right
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Old 10th July 2012, 15:32   #194
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Disclaimer: I absolutely LOVE the Yeti.

Quote:
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However, I stand by my (harsh and uncompromising maybe), views on these vehicles as do a large mass of consumers who appear to have already voted with their feet and or wallets, given the singular lack of crowds clamouring for these vehicles and thronging their showrooms, wallets drawn and at the ready, a la the gunslingers of old!
Hi Shankar - Couldn't help but pointing out, that your statement above, also applies to the Yeti.
So, by logical extension, of that statement alone, are you saying the Yeti is trash? If not, then please allow F1 the same opportunity.

Also, by a contrary extension of your statement above, it would imply that, say for example, the dose of Mahindras (notwithstanding your M&M loyalism) that was served up to us, before the XUV, were all great products.

Herd philosophy, or the lack of it, is NOT ALWAYS Right!

By the way, if I had the money right now, I would go for a Yeti, with my eyes closed, and rest the matter for the next decade.
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Old 10th July 2012, 15:41   #195
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Many developed markets actually have use for these crew cabs so that workmen can get from A to B in peace and comfort and safety. Why, the Fortuner is a crew cab in most places outside India as it is based on a Hilux pickup.
Shankar,

Fortuner has no separate crew cab version - the pick-up cousin of the Fortuner is the Hilux. I guess you meant that?

The Hilux has leaf springs throughout AFAIK, and the 4WD system is different (similar to the Endy's - it has no permanent 4WD - but has 2H, 4H, 4L). It is also the highest selling vehicle almost every month in places such as South Africa and Australia.
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