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Old 10th July 2012, 16:24   #196
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Hi Roy.

Yes put like that you're right. You're a bit like Cardinal Richelieu who purportedly said- give me just 7 words a man has written and I will find enough in them to hang him. Looks like my rants have finally sent me to the hangman!!

Jokes apart, buying a Yeti, one is considered to be either a rich idiot buying an expensive WagonR look alike or one of the chosen/ discerning few who know and appreciate what the Yeti offers. I flatter myself that I belong to the latter classification.

Yes also to the fact that herd mentality is not always right - one only has to consider lemmings leaping in droves off cliffs, to come to that conclusion.

Ref the Mahindras and Tatas - specifically the Scorpio and Safari - they were excellent indeed, in their time. The Force One belongs with them, not really quite modern enough to take on the likes of an XUV or other.

Also a resounding Yes to the fact that I am also happy with the decision to buy the Yeti. Makes greater sense than a lot of other vehicles, in terms of a blend of comfort, utility and ease of use in the city, for someone like me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Disclaimer: I absolutely LOVE the Yeti.

Hi Shankar - Couldn't help but pointing out, that your statement above, also applies to the Yeti.
So, by logical extension, of that statement alone, are you saying the Yeti is trash? If not, then please allow F1 the same opportunity.

Also, by a contrary extension of your statement above, it would imply that, say for example, the dose of Mahindras (notwithstanding your M&M loyalism) that was served up to us, before the XUV, were all great products.

Herd philosophy, or the lack of it, is NOT ALWAYS Right!

By the way, if I had the money right now, I would go for a Yeti, with my eyes closed, and rest the matter for the next decade.

Yes Nilanjan
The Hilux Pickup is what I have seen abroad.
It certainly seems very popular with the workforce management boys abroad - South East Asia is crawling with them as are Australia etc.
A couple of my pals had the use of these while they were stationed in Papua New Guinea.
However, the double cab concept simply doesn't seem to work here in India, except at a very basic level - Mahindra Maxx or Pik Up or whatever.

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Shankar,

Fortuner has no separate crew cab version - the pick-up cousin of the Fortuner is the Hilux. I guess you meant that?

The Hilux has leaf springs throughout AFAIK, and the 4WD system is different (similar to the Endy's - it has no permanent 4WD - but has 2H, 4H, 4L). It is also the highest selling vehicle almost every month in places such as South Africa and Australia.
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Old 10th July 2012, 16:32   #197
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Disclaimer: I absolutely LOVE the Yeti.


Hi Shankar - Couldn't help but pointing out, that your statement above, also applies to the Yeti.
Disclaimer: Since we are discussing personal preferences now, here I go.
I absolutely hate the Yeti. Big reason is I drove its mother the Skoda Roomster in Europe for about 3 months. Pitiable body roll (a double deck bus is more stable), lack of sound deadening. However nice engine and roomy interiors. The biggest reason is the car lacks any kind of character, it feels like a washing machine or a fridge basically an appliance. Oh and yeah I don't like largish hatchbacks
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Old 10th July 2012, 18:12   #198
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Am going to stick my neck out (hoping Shankar doesn't guillotine it off ) and say that I quite liked the Force One the one time I TDed it (somewhere back on this thread). Primarily what attracted me was the price, the size, the handling and the overall butchness. Then there is the Merc engine and the Lotus-tuned suspension. I am not a "4X4 guy" and usage is mostly urban: the lack of ABS and airbags is the only dealbreaker as far as I see.

But Force doesn't seem to be selling too many of these in the city- the showroom guys themselves admitted "gaonwalas" are the ones opening their wallets. Whereas the XUV5OO has no shortage of takers (when their bookings open, that is).

The point is: what works for me may not work for someone else, and while everyone's opinion is respected, "This vehicle sucks" gets tiresome when it is repeated ad nauseum post after post in different ways.
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Old 10th July 2012, 19:13   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster
Am going to stick my neck out (hoping Shankar doesn't guillotine it off ) and say that I quite liked the Force One the one time I TDed it (somewhere back on this thread). Primarily what attracted me was the price, the size, the handling and the overall butchness. Then there is the Merc engine and the Lotus-tuned suspension. I am not a "4X4 guy" and usage is mostly urban: the lack of ABS and airbags is the only dealbreaker as far as I see.

But Force doesn't seem to be selling too many of these in the city- the showroom guys themselves admitted "gaonwalas" are the ones opening their wallets. Whereas the XUV5OO has no shortage of takers (when their bookings open, that is).

The point is: what works for me may not work for someone else, and while everyone's opinion is respected, "This vehicle sucks" gets tiresome when it is repeated ad nauseum post after post in different ways.
Thats right. It is always a matter of personal preference in the end. Tell me, will you be able to deal with the bulk of the Force One daily in the city? I found the Scorpio very tiresome indeed after the third year of ownership. Could not wait to get shot of it I can tell you.
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Old 10th July 2012, 19:50   #200
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

All I can say after reading last few posts that while F1 looks as the cheaper cousin of Endeavour so if one is comfortable with it then he or she can be with F1 in the city.
Secondly, its a vicious circle out there. Hatchback owner aspires for sedan and sedan owner aspires for SUV and after few days SUV owner realises that Hatchback is more practical and then decides for premium hatchback. Fusion and Yeti and now Duster somehow satisfy that urge in a better way.

@shankar.balan
I think while taking into consideration the sales figures of my Fusion and your Yeti this revolution has just started by the Duster.
The market is definitely maturing. Next revolution should be of xenon type trucks.

Last edited by carwatcher : 10th July 2012 at 20:04.
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Old 10th July 2012, 19:57   #201
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

The world over, the crossover revolution seems to be successful and so it seems in India too!

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
Fusion and Yeti and now Duster somehow satisfy that urge in a better way.
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Old 10th July 2012, 21:18   #202
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Somehow the double cab seems to work in Thailand, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and so on!
Hi,
Oz (the ute), and ZA (the bakkie) too.
The pickup is supposed to be the farmers working vehicle, and as such normally gets a tax break.

Think the Xenon and the Getaway were primarily designed/ meant for these markets.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 11th July 2012, 07:48   #203
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

My personal opinion here: A small hatchback is perfect for crowded city roads. To cut across traffic, go through small bylanes and park in congested spaces. It is like a 1 or 2bhk in Mumbai. A full size SUV is like a duplex or a 3-4 bhk. Enough space for you and your loved ones. Very comfortable. Only issue in crowded cities is finding a parking space.

Driving both a small hatchback and a Suv I feel that driving comfort wise nothing beats a Safari even inside Mumbai. Enough torque to crawl in traffic, neednt work on clutch/accelerator. Infact more peaceful in the Safari in traffic because I neednot look out for other 'lesser beings' :P they take care to avoid my path. High visibility allows me to plan my moves, no one cuts me across, infact even bikers donot seem to stick close to the safari as they do to sedans or other cars. Parking I have no issues since I always use pay and park.

Other perks of a Suv are enough space in the back bench to do wat ever you feel like , a big boot to have a great ICE setup and leave enough space for all kinds of luggage

A crossover is like those 2.5 bhk apartments in Mumbai.. nither here nor there.. not enough hatchback, not enough suv
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Old 11th July 2012, 09:17   #204
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Yes put like that you're right. You're a bit like Cardinal Richelieu who purportedly said- give me just 7 words a man has written and I will find enough in them to hang him. Looks like my rants have finally sent me to the hangman!!

Ref the Mahindras and Tatas - specifically the Scorpio and Safari - they were excellent indeed, in their time. The Force One belongs with them, not really quite modern enough to take on the likes of an XUV or other.
Well Shankar, I had a lot more than 7 words, and then I did not have to pick words out of sentences did I? The Cardinal sits on too high a pedestal, to be compared to, in any respect or to any degree.

On the other point, I totally disagree. Scorpio is reliable, but the ride, handling, ergonomics, space etc. are very bad. Safari excels in all the departments that the Scorpio fails in, but suffers from very bad reliability, and has a massive turning radius.
I personally feel, after two long test drives, that the Force One, is leagues ahead of these two vehicles, except for the lack of ABS and the A.S.S from Force. To me, it makes a lot of sense for a large Indian Family to have a F1, so they can go on long trips together and carry a lot of luggage. But, ABS is a MUST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I absolutely hate the Yeti. Big reason is I drove its mother the Skoda Roomster in Europe for about 3 months.
You might not have the right comparison there. As far as I understand, the Roomster is based on a different platform altogether. The Yeti is completely different. I would encourage you to go and TD it once. It might redefine your opinion, on what you expect a vehicle to be like. But this is Off Topic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Am going to stick my neck out (hoping Shankar doesn't guillotine it off ) and say that I quite liked the Force One the one time I TDed it (somewhere back on this thread).
The point is: what works for me may not work for someone else, and while everyone's opinion is respected, "This vehicle sucks" gets tiresome when it is repeated ad nauseum post after post in different ways.
Exactly, what I felt. C'mon, look at the Space, Comfort, Ride Quality, Handling, Performance attributes of the F1. If one doesn't see the world through M&M coloured Goggles, he/she may be able to truly see what this offers to the customers. The OM611 is one great engine; Utterly Butterly Smooth.
However, as I have said earlier as well - being an owner of a Force vehicle already, the only uncertainty I would have is the A.S.S and Spare Parts availability from Force. Hence, I would like to see their commitment to the vehicle, and to this line of business (Mr. Firodia and others in the management have been repeatedly saying that they are segregating the Commercial and Personal Vehicle Segments as two separate LOBs), over at least 2 years, before buying any other Force Vehicle.

P.S. But on Force Vehicles (Gurkha) reliability:
- In almost a year's ownership of a now 3.5 year old vehicle, I have had to deal with the Bosch FIP losing it's timing once. This is the only time it had to be towed to a Service Center
- I seem to run through the Fan and AC-PS belts in about 8-10K kms. But, these are very cheap to replace
- The CV joint boots wear out in about 5K kms, but again are cheap to replace, and I always seem to replace at the first sign of wear & tear, whereas the mechanics keep advising me to operate it for another 3-5K kms before replacing!
- Nuts and Bolts need periodic (once in 3 months) tightening

.... And that's all!
That said, it goes to OTR's on the weekend and ONLY needs a Wash, and then takes me to office Monday onwards.
It's a breeze to drive in the city. Somebody once while reviewing the Gurkha on this forum once said that it might be a pain to drive in the city. I use a Gurkha as my daily drive in Delhi NCR, and what I love is the splendid gearing, low end Torque, SWB (ease of Parking), the Chiller of an AC, Great Visibility all around and of course, the ultra-small Turning Radius.

So much for Force unreliability!

Last edited by roy_libran : 11th July 2012 at 09:36. Reason: Remembered the Smiley Rule!
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Old 11th July 2012, 10:00   #205
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
What made you "thing" (pun intended) that I assume it a success where in first place these comments are not mine.
sorry mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I believe you are replying to the wrong person. And yes I wrote what I observed. Also Force One's are being lapped up by rural India at least around Mumbai quite unlike the RiO.

Secondly the One at 11.25lac is certainly value for money when compared with the Duster which has what one airbag and ABS extra (which costs what 30k more?) I have seen panel gaps in the Fluence and Koleos so expect the same in the Duster too
I am sure Firodia must be jumping in joy reading your endorsement of the project. He only wishes it would translate to sales...
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Old 11th July 2012, 10:52   #206
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

I have never claimed that the Scorpio had a comfy ride. Indeed it is quite the contrary and indeed I got so sick of it that I sold it on, four years into ownership!
If you notice I have actually been cribbing a lot on various threads about its handling too. I do not rate even the Safari very high in handling. But its ride is good.
Like I said before, when I bought the Scorpio in 2008 there was nothing else in the market that suited me, in the price bracket that I could then consider, other than the Scorpio and Safari. It was just after I bought mine that they introduced ABS and Airbags etc in the top spec variant for which they wanted about 14 lacs or so.
There was also the Fusion which briefly swam into my consideration set, but my then perceived space requirements knocked that car out of the reckoning. In one way it was a good thing because it also got discontinued later the same year.
Yes I agree the Scorpio is reliable in general and that in general the Safari doesn't appear to be. I like M&M for their reliability and for the familiarity because we have had some species of M&M around for many years.
Possibly you are right about the F1 being a great vehicle for the big fat Indian family. You are most certainly right about the ABS being absolutely necessary in a vehicle of such a size and build. Force One badly needs a greater After Sales Service presence. I wonder though, if they have the cash and sustenance power to be able to create such a network for themselves.
My main contention in this whole grumbly last few pages has been that Force One is antediluvian in design and can in today's scenario only be compared with Scorpio, Safari and perhaps Sumo Grande and Tavera at the max.
It is strictly old gen, not finished very well and quite out dated too. Now, just because it is outdated does not mean it is incompetent. Like even today, an old Mahindra 540 or Maruti Gypsy or Series I Land Rover are still competent enough.
However, they cannot hold a candle to the more modern forms of competition that have come up over the last 7-8 years and which are now available for Indian consumers to choose from.
You see, my simple submission is that when one experiences better things, it is hard to go back to the less good things.

Also, I am calling a halt now to my participation in this thread because we are all at severe risk of becoming boringly and irritatingly repetitive, like stuck gramophone records and/ or the resident club bore. Let me try and recognize my own fault in contributing to this and desist forthwith.

Cheers and to each his own!








Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Well Shankar, I had a lot more than 7 words, and then I did not have to pick words out of sentences did I? The Cardinal sits on too high a pedestal, to be compared to, in any respect or to any degree.

On the other point, I totally disagree. Scorpio is reliable, but the ride, handling, ergonomics, space etc. are very bad. Safari excels in all the departments that the Scorpio fails in, but suffers from very bad reliability, and has a massive turning radius.
I personally feel, after two long test drives, that the Force One, is leagues ahead of these two vehicles, except for the lack of ABS and the A.S.S from Force. To me, it makes a lot of sense for a large Indian Family to have a F1, so they can go on long trips together and carry a lot of luggage. But, ABS is a MUST.
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Old 11th July 2012, 11:14   #207
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Trying to steer this thread from if Force one is a good buy versus the competition or not. What interests me in cars like the One and RiO is they are interesting in their approach to a Suv.
Force One is a half price Ford Endevour. Same ladder frame chassis, same 5 meter length, truck underpinning and low roof, same space for 3 rows and luggage behind. Not comparing safety features and fit and finish, these cars are very similar.
In place of Force had Mahindra, Tata or Maruti produced the Force One, I believe it would have sold well, even today, due to the stronger after sales support of these players. What is killed the Force One is the presence of Force itself.

RiO is India's first compact Suv so to speak. Interesting little car which has the footprint of an alto/astar and the looks of a SUV. Same problems with RiO too. The mere name of Premier seems to have failed this product even before it was launched.

Something similar to what happened to almost all Mitsubishi products due to Hindustan Motor's association with them.

It would be wiser for these companies (Force, Premier, Hindustan, Sonalika to some extent) to first rebrand themselves then try and launch products.
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Old 13th July 2012, 21:54   #208
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

Found a pretty decent and crisp review of Force One on topgear
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Old 2nd August 2012, 19:10   #209
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

I think most consumers think in terms of more bang for their buck and hence the obsession for a boot or an SUV. The thinking is that for 6 lakhs odd, why buy a hatch when one can get a car with a boot (never mind that the original dzire never caught my fancy with it's weird 'fit on' boot) and if one applies the same logic to this, people would get tempted to buy a 'badi gaadi' for the price of a sedan or a scorpio/innova etc.

I'm also intrigued as to why there isn't an official review of the ForceOne. Pardon me and guide me to one if there is because I couldn't spot it.

Last edited by vij4all : 2nd August 2012 at 19:16. Reason: Typo
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Old 9th August 2012, 16:24   #210
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Default Re: Force One: Test Drive & Review

I saw a black one in Allahabad this week. First look from the rear with those taillamps I thought it was a Landcruiser variant a Cygnus or Lexus LX 470 or other names for RHD versions that keep coming. Even the rear doors are hatch doors.

From the front it looked like a monestrous Dodge Durrango. I am impressed and waiting for the 4x4 version with improvements, it will join my stable for sure.
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