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Old 6th February 2012, 13:29   #106
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by vrvarier View Post
Great to know this, Dr Suraj, and thank you for posting the solutions. I have, 1 & 3 if I observe keenly. So should get that solved with your solutions.

There is a new one: I have a faint whistling sound when the engine is running (idling or otherwise). I've struggled to find out the source, but its not clear. Its not from: the engine bay, the AC vents, music system. It appears to be coming from somewhere around the glove compartment or behind it. It sounds like, when you ride in high speeds, and one of glasses is slighly ajar, the wind makes whistling sound.
Yes - the fuel lid is a very simple minor thing.
Just a little setting at the lock is all it takes.
But often - at a pump - the attendant would keep asking me to open the lid & i would be pulling the lever hard.
But now its smooth as silk.

Problem no. 3 - I believe is fairly common - owing to potholes. I am not sure.
Do let me know how it goes for you.

As for the new one you have mentioned :
Did you try switching off the AC when that whistling noise begins?

If not - then I think it must be one of those rubber pipings near the front windows.

Awaiting your diagnosis & solution !

All the Best !
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Old 14th February 2012, 11:27   #107
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

Hi All,

My Manza ELAN is delivered on 10th and it already had 300 KM on ODO. I am also experiencing following issues
  1. RATTLING. Seems thats the basis and most common issue in TATA cars. Hope that would get resolved in first service.
  2. Some whistling noise under rear seat (may be from the exhaust) especially when its idle.
  3. Queaking noise from Left rear shock, especially when the car is going over a speek breaker.
  4. Pickup in 2nd Gear. Oh! horrible . I park my car in the office in -1 floor and the car refuses to climb in second gear. I have to come to first gear. Whereas for my previous car (OHC), its piece of cake.
  5. Turnings on high speeds is definitely scary. May be I need to get used to the car.
  6. Engine noise is horrible in third gear and I hope this would get resolved in first service.
Any views on above, please share.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
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Old 14th February 2012, 12:11   #108
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

Hi Raghu

Welcome to the manza club. Happy motoring. It is a good car, providing excellent comfort. The ride is good on on bad roads but is a bit sensitive and if you maintain it well, it will age well/slowly. From my experience, If you happen to drive on bad roads, check wheel alignment frequently, maintain 32-34 psi in front and 30-32 at rear. Ask TASS to check the supsension during every service. For your other queries, my repsonse inline in italics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmnraghu78 View Post
Hi All,

My Manza ELAN is delivered on 10th and it already had 300 KM on ODO. I am also experiencing following issues
  1. RATTLING. Seems thats the basis and most common issue in TATA cars. Hope that would get resolved in first service. Hmm. This seems to be peculiar to Manza. Haven't heard Vista owners complain much about rattling especially on new cars. Per the mechanic who serviced mine recently mentioned that there are some screws in the steering column that needs adjustment which the dealers leave out while the disconnect the odo during pdi/registration. There are a few other areas that can cause rattle and to completely eliminate, they may need a complete day to check the dashboard. TASS generally will fix things that are straight away visible during regular service. If it surfaces again, make sure that you give a score of 5 or 6 during the feedback call from TML Pune. The service center will call you back and tell them to do a complete check of the dash and give them a day or two. Also promise them 10/10 if you are satisfied.
  2. Some whistling noise under rear seat (may be from the exhaust) especially when its idle. they should address it during first service
  3. Queaking noise from Left rear shock, especially when the car is going over a speek breaker.they should address it during first service
  4. Pickup in 2nd Gear. Oh! horrible . I park my car in the office in -1 floor and the car refuses to climb in second gear. I have to come to first gear. Whereas for my previous car (OHC), its piece of cake. It is due to the turbo lag which takes time to get used to since you are graduating from petrol. Just ensure that you are above 1500 rpm when you start your climb and you should be fine. I park at -2 and no issues. As a general rule upshift between 2000-2200 rpm and downshift at 1500 rpm and you should be fine.
  5. Turnings on high speeds is definitely scary. May be I need to get used to the car.
  6. Engine noise is horrible in third gear and I hope this would get resolved in first service.
This comes down as the engine settles. Is it the clattering when you accelerate in 3rd gear? If yes, try switching to a different diesel. In chennai, have found that with BP/Reliance diesel from a good bunk, the clatter almost becomes non existent whereas it is high with HP and IOC (even their best bunks)

Any views on above, please share.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
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Old 17th February 2012, 17:29   #109
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmnraghu78 View Post
Hi All,

My Manza ELAN is delivered on 10th and it already had 300 KM on ODO. I am also experiencing following issues
  1. RATTLING. Seems thats the basis and most common issue in TATA cars. Hope that would get resolved in first service.
  2. Some whistling noise under rear seat (may be from the exhaust) especially when its idle.
  3. Queaking noise from Left rear shock, especially when the car is going over a speek breaker.
  4. Pickup in 2nd Gear. Oh! horrible . I park my car in the office in -1 floor and the car refuses to climb in second gear. I have to come to first gear. Whereas for my previous car (OHC), its piece of cake.
  5. Turnings on high speeds is definitely scary. May be I need to get used to the car.
  6. Engine noise is horrible in third gear and I hope this would get resolved in first service.
Any views on above, please share.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman

Welcome to the Manza club Mr. Raghu Lakshman.
Excellent choice! Congratulations.

In addition to the well-experienced Mr. Shridhar K's replies.
I shall add a few of my own.

1. The rattling can be from almost anywhere - & yes standard in almost all Tata Cars - mostly coz of some stupidity by the dealers rather than TM themseves.
Possibilities - the cladding below the engine, a cut up bush after a speed bump, turbo pipe touching the body - & a few loose screws here & there.
These are the usual culprits.

2. Rear seat - again Manza - common - the lower bench of the rear seat has a couple of screws that need to be tightened up well during service

3. Again - ? bush. ? just a service required

4. Well totally agree with what Mr. Shridhar's comments.. & frankly - nope there is no such problem. In fact it zooms past @ 2nd gear.
I have taken it at most steep inclines in 2nd without even as a hint for a gear shifter.

5. High speeds - how high? I have been turning around 130-140 kmph with reasonable comfort. Is the braking scary? Or is it the ABS ?

6. Will be resolved in 1st service for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
Hi Raghu

Welcome to the manza club. Happy motoring. It is a good car, providing excellent comfort. The ride is good on on bad roads but is a bit sensitive and if you maintain it well, it will age well/slowly. From my experience, If you happen to drive on bad roads, check wheel alignment frequently, maintain 32-34 psi in front and 30-32 at rear. Ask TASS to check the supsension during every service. For your other queries, my repsonse inline in italics.

Now THAT is an experienced Manza owner talking.

Totally agree to both the points - that it does need alignment every now & then.
&
yes - Tata Motors does show genuine interest & concern.

When required give a bad feedback score & you immediately get a call & issues do get resolved.

Some of your comments - like the quality of diesel - where absolute eye openers!
Even though I have not faced any such problem.
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Old 18th February 2012, 09:14   #110
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

Thanks a ton Dr. Suraj and Sridhar.

The ODO is around 400. Morning I checked the engine oil and it seems turning pretty black already. I hope rest of mentioned issues gets resolved in first service.

Couple of more observations:

1. The gear shift so hard and the gear rod is moving little bit up and down in 3rd and 4th gear when I pressed the accelerator pad.

2. Engine noise becoming more prominent now.

I already given pretty bad rating for things which I didnt like at the showroom while booking and delivery.

Will keep you posted on further.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
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Old 18th February 2012, 12:44   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmnraghu78
Thanks a ton Dr. Suraj and Sridhar.

The ODO is around 400. Morning I checked the engine oil and it seems turning pretty black already. I hope rest of mentioned issues gets resolved in first service.

Couple of more observations:

1. The gear shift so hard and the gear rod is moving little bit up and down in 3rd and 4th gear when I pressed the accelerator pad.

2. Engine noise becoming more prominent now.

I already given pretty bad rating for things which I didnt like at the showroom while booking and delivery.

Will keep you posted on further.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
The gear shift is worrisome.
As in - not normal

A serious mention is a must when you book your appointment for the 1st service.
I am sure it will be sorted by then.

Engine noise?
What exactly is it?
Rattling?
Persistent throughout the RPM range?
Even with the A/C off ?
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Old 21st February 2012, 14:26   #112
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

Hi Dr.Suraj,

One thing for sure is TATA definitely need to improve on quality checks. They manufactured such a great car without having proper quality checks, releasing it to the market.

Engine noise is like "Grrrrrrr" resembles the sound generated by light trucks or govt buses (no offense). This noise is continuous in 2 to 4th gears and reduce little bit in 5th gear. Its persistent above 1500 RPM with and without A/C.

I will wait for the first service. If things are not solved, I would lodge the complaint to TATA on these problems.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
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Old 23rd February 2012, 10:35   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmnraghu78
Hi Dr.Suraj,

One thing for sure is TATA definitely need to improve on quality checks. They manufactured such a great car without having proper quality checks, releasing it to the market.

Engine noise is like "Grrrrrrr" resembles the sound generated by light trucks or govt buses (no offense). This noise is continuous in 2 to 4th gears and reduce little bit in 5th gear. Its persistent above 1500 RPM with and without A/C.

I will wait for the first service. If things are not solved, I would lodge the complaint to TATA on these problems.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
Totally agree.

Such a great well though of, well designed VFM product.
well executed too.
But definitely QC is like a cheap chinese company.
If only they improve that - they can give VW a run for their money.

I am sure your 1st service is just around the corner.

Mention it BEFORE you give the car for servicing to your service advisor.
When it returns from servicing & STILL the problem persists report it then & there & lodge a complaint with Tata for sure.

All the best.

Keep us updated.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 23:05   #114
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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This is quite wierd, never thought Mumbai Traffic police would stoop to such a low level. They are supposed to be the best of the lot. While
Police are police ... wherever and whenever .... mumbai or delhi or any city .. any state !
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Old 3rd March 2012, 23:58   #115
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
So finally got the opportunity to take him out for a long drive.

Top speed: 153 kmph (Back seat drivers did not allow me to go any higher) on the Mumbai - Pune Expressway.

On the expressway - both times average speed between 120 - 140 kmph.
& yet:

Average / Fuel Efficieny: 17.2 kmpl while going & 16.6 kmpl while returning.

Total cost: Exact full tank to full tank : 20 lts Turbojet (Diesel) : 1007 Rs.! for the full trip & back.

AMAZINGLY cheap! That is the 1st think that comes to mind!

The car handled well through all patches, city & highway.

Have clicked some pics of the trip meter etc. Shall post them soon.

Seriously enjoying the Manza !
Dear Dr Suraj,

Thanks for such an in-depth and fantastic report on the Manza. I have been following this car right from its launch and have advised most of my friends to buy this car, more for its "Indian" origins .... (includes a technology absorption of the MJD) and super VFM.

One doubt -- cars are referred to in the feminine gender -- she -- her -- I see that you equate the sex ! Good ! I caught on as I have similar references too ! (The same goes for the "Jumbo").

153 Kmph is fantastic -- to reach on any Indian highway ! Believe me -- I could touch only about 120 -- told my wife I wanted to check the over-speed indicator LED on my dash ! (Indigo eCS LX). I am a TATA lover like you - and can see the wonders they have done ot the good 'ol IDI 475 to change it to the CR4 !

FE is great too ! However, I fail to understand why it is lesser that the 1396 or so cc CR4 engine in the eCS ? the MJD is a 1248 cc, 90 bhp one, maybe that explains the lesser FE, the CR4 puts out 69.5. I have achieved about 18.5 kpl from Mount Abu to Delhi (about 875 kms) done in a day - morning to evening, with A/C 100 % of the time, 5 adults and a bootful of luggage, in summer of Rajasthan - Delhi. I use only regular diesel - TATA DOES NOT RECOMMEND USE OF DIESEL ADDITIVES with this engine -- dunno why ?

I remember clicking a photo of the dials of a Corolla .. doing about 140-150 kph on the way back from Eilat .. (wife clicked them , actually ) ..

I was seriously considering upgrade from my old Indica DLE 2002 model .. to a Safari or Aria ... your report has made me think .. is driving daily to work in a hulk worth the effort ? with a 10 kpl FE ? What do bhp-ians advise ? Can I take the manza to say .. Khardungla ? Would it need an SUV or say a high GC, big vehicle ? I personally don't think so .. am ready to take my nano there too !
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Old 4th March 2012, 13:02   #116
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by tmnraghu78 View Post
Hi Dr.Suraj,

One thing for sure is TATA definitely need to improve on quality checks. They manufactured such a great car without having proper quality checks, releasing it to the market.

Engine noise is like "Grrrrrrr" resembles the sound generated by light trucks or govt buses (no offense). This noise is continuous in 2 to 4th gears and reduce little bit in 5th gear. Its persistent above 1500 RPM with and without A/C.

I will wait for the first service. If things are not solved, I would lodge the complaint to TATA on these problems.

Thanks,
Raghu Lakshman
Raghu the noise is quite normal, it will quieten down after 1500kms, I also felt the growl to be more than what you & me experience in a petrol car, in fact now i like the growl or snarl it makes in fact i love the diesel clatter as well.
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Old 11th March 2012, 19:55   #117
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Smile Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by lifebuoy View Post
Police are police ... wherever and whenever .... mumbai or delhi or any city .. any state !


Quote:
Originally Posted by lifebuoy View Post
Dear Dr Suraj,

Thanks for such an in-depth and fantastic report on the Manza. I have been following this car right from its launch and have advised most of my friends to buy this car, more for its "Indian" origins .... (includes a technology absorption of the MJD) and super VFM.

One doubt -- cars are referred to in the feminine gender -- she -- her -- I see that you equate the sex ! Good ! I caught on as I have similar references too ! (The same goes for the "Jumbo").

153 Kmph is fantastic -- to reach on any Indian highway ! Believe me -- I could touch only about 120 -- told my wife I wanted to check the over-speed indicator LED on my dash ! (Indigo eCS LX). I am a TATA lover like you - and can see the wonders they have done ot the good 'ol IDI 475 to change it to the CR4 !

FE is great too ! However, I fail to understand why it is lesser that the 1396 or so cc CR4 engine in the eCS ? the MJD is a 1248 cc, 90 bhp one, maybe that explains the lesser FE, the CR4 puts out 69.5. I have achieved about 18.5 kpl from Mount Abu to Delhi (about 875 kms) done in a day - morning to evening, with A/C 100 % of the time, 5 adults and a bootful of luggage, in summer of Rajasthan - Delhi. I use only regular diesel - TATA DOES NOT RECOMMEND USE OF DIESEL ADDITIVES with this engine -- dunno why ?

I remember clicking a photo of the dials of a Corolla .. doing about 140-150 kph on the way back from Eilat .. (wife clicked them , actually ) ..

I was seriously considering upgrade from my old Indica DLE 2002 model .. to a Safari or Aria ... your report has made me think .. is driving daily to work in a hulk worth the effort ? with a 10 kpl FE ? What do bhp-ians advise ? Can I take the manza to say .. Khardungla ? Would it need an SUV or say a high GC, big vehicle ? I personally don't think so .. am ready to take my nano there too !
Thank you very much for your wonderful comments, astute observations.

Indeed, we share a lot of common beliefs.

Yes - Tata is unbeatable when it comes to VFM (any car across their range - except probably Aria) & ofcourse INDIAN.

They have improved in leaps & bounds. More so in the last 2 years.
The Manza is serious Class Apart.

Well, I do equate the sex - but also some cars are not 'feminine' enough to be called a 'She'.
Some are pure bred work horses.

Like I would never call a nice bulky SUV a she.

A Ferrari is a she, but a Lambo is a he.
(My Dictionary)
&
Its more about the character of the car. How they drive. Both my Jumbo & Manza are HE. No doubt. The Manza's elder cousin - the Linea is a She.
I have always maintained this. Maybe because they are not swift or nimble footed by strong grunting power houses. They have no curves or smooth lines like a woman but strong bold lines, chiseled, if I may say so.

The FE - is probably also owing to the Variable Geometry Turbo in the Manza MJD. Still I have managed recently a top FE of 20.3 kmpl for a trip that spanned 326 kms. Sounds nice right? Its just too good to be true. Its actually far more luxurious & yet cheaper that the State run transport buses!

Top Speed - well. I had touched 160 kmph on my 1.4 Indica V2 petrol on the Ahmedabad - Baroda corridor in December 2010. No such stunts with my Manza so far. Maybe after it has clocked 20k kms. Lets see... But seriously it is quite a powerful beast & with a light clutch. Balances city & Highway driving both. But obviously he loves Highway drives.

As for Ground Clearance - the Manza does ride reasonably high. With individual suspension in the rear comfort is never compromised.
I don't know about Khardungla. I think SUVs are recommended there for the sheer grunt they can produce from their engines for the steep inclines & to go where there are no roads.
In the city (if you do not do a lot of off-roading) the Manza is anyday a much better option than an SUV.
Consider easier parking, better FE & slightly better managing through traffic.

Do read up other Manza owner's take.
I am quite happy with my Manza so far. In fact - LOVING it.

Thank you once again for your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
Raghu the noise is quite normal, it will quieten down after 1500kms, I also felt the growl to be more than what you & me experience in a petrol car, in fact now i like the growl or snarl it makes in fact i love the diesel clatter as well.
I second that - about loving the noise that is...
(If this is the same noise we are all talking about).

Its a masculine growl of a diesel engine & it is not rude or unruly. It is quite a nice music to the ears.
Sounds like a muscle car.
Definitely addicting !
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:03   #118
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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The FE - is probably also owing to the Variable Geometry Turbo in the Manza MJD. Still I have managed recently a top FE of 20.3 kmpl for a trip that spanned 326 kms. Sounds nice right? Its just too good to be true. Its actually far more luxurious & yet cheaper that the State run transport buses!
The Manza is a fantastic car for the highways. Munches miles with no fuss, delivering great fuel economy. In my BLR - GOA - KUMTA - BLR trip, my trip average was around 21.4xx kmpl (on a 1400km round trip). This included ghat sections, driving in goa (fantastic but very narrow roads and hence low speeds), and highway driving around 110-120kmph in most sections. This with AC on during most parts, i thought was brilliant.

For the first 4 hours of my trip when i stuck to speeds around 90-100kmph the average fuel consumption was greater than 25kmpl. Unfortunately the MID is configured not to show any higher.
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:48   #119
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
The Manza is a fantastic car for the highways. Munches miles with no fuss, delivering great fuel economy. In my BLR - GOA - KUMTA - BLR trip, my trip average was around 21.4xx kmpl (on a 1400km round trip). This included ghat sections, driving in goa (fantastic but very narrow roads and hence low speeds), and highway driving around 110-120kmph in most sections. This with AC on during most parts, i thought was brilliant.

For the first 4 hours of my trip when i stuck to speeds around 90-100kmph the average fuel consumption was greater than 25kmpl. Unfortunately the MID is configured not to show any higher.
Lucky guy, to see 25kpl on the avg MID, i have never been fortunate to see that, the highest i saw was 23kpl. Though no complaints about milage as my previous vehicles taught me not to look at milage, namely Karizma

Last edited by motomaverick : 12th March 2012 at 08:50.
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Old 13th March 2012, 12:48   #120
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Default Re: Celebrate Eleganza - Tata Manza Elan Quadrajet Celebration Edition !

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Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
The Manza is a fantastic car for the highways. Munches miles with no fuss, delivering great fuel economy. In my BLR - GOA - KUMTA - BLR trip, my trip average was around 21.4xx kmpl (on a 1400km round trip). This included ghat sections, driving in goa (fantastic but very narrow roads and hence low speeds), and highway driving around 110-120kmph in most sections. This with AC on during most parts, i thought was brilliant.

For the first 4 hours of my trip when i stuck to speeds around 90-100kmph the average fuel consumption was greater than 25kmpl. Unfortunately the MID is configured not to show any higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
Lucky guy, to see 25kpl on the avg MID, i have never been fortunate to see that, the highest i saw was 23kpl. Though no complaints about milage as my previous vehicles taught me not to look at milage, namely Karizma
It seriously is a fantastic highway car.

I drove 558 kms yesterday.
Bombay to Ahmadnagar & back in the evening.

On the Expressway - it is DIFFICULT to keep the car going steady @ 120 kmph.
Why?
Because it so effortlessly keeps gliding @ 140 !
No Seriously, before I could realize it would be all the way to 140.
Again yesterday, for a stretch of around 2 kms I was at 155 kmph.
But it was dropping the mileage so slowed down.

This 1 time - that I was cruising at 110. My friend overtook me in a Wagon R @ 120.
While he was neck to neck with me & straining to push harder:

I just tapped my right foot & my Manza just rocketed to 142 kmph is literally 3 seconds!

My friends Wagon R was a spot in the rear view mirror after 5 seconds.

All those tricky curves on the Expressway - the ABS is amazing !
A slight tap on the brake & a steady hand - and it just turns amazingly steady.
The road grip is brilliant too!

My total trip average did touch 20.00 kmpl more than once.
But overall it was 18.3 at the end of the day !
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