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Old 10th November 2011, 23:47   #1
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Default Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

BACKGROUND
My wife and I have typically not believed in spending a fortune on our cars. It probably began with my parent going the "pre-owned" route (it helped that my brother's friend was a used car dealer). We inherited this quest for Value and thus we had a pre-owned 2001 Hyundai Santro that faithfully served our travel needs (and continues to do so). With my office merely 2km from my residence and my wife's office even closer, this worked perfectly fine for us.



THE SECOND CAR
Two years back we were blessed with a daughter. Post delivery when my wife had to resume work, her work place had moved 17km away from home. My work place too moved 7km away from home. A second car was the need of the hour. Considering our parents/in-laws would be around for some time to support us, we need a car with lots of space. Plus I never liked sedans and always wanted a hatch. With other requirements (like VFM, better ground clearance, compact size, large boot space etc) we (or rather I) narrowed down to a pre-owned Ford Fusion. Wifey took some time getting convinced but agreed stating it needs to be in Black. Searched for over 9 months, before found one in Bombay. Flew down to Bombay (my home city - my parents and most of my family is still there), bought it, had it transported to Bangalore and then been using it for last 2 years. Absolutely loved the car, definitely the most under-rated car as per me. Needless to say, I drove the Ford daily to work while my wifey would be driven (by our driver) to her work place in the Hyundai. Why would i buy a Ford for my driver to enjoy it?



CHANGE IS INEVITABLE
Our daughter got admission into the daycare facility setup in my wife's office. WOW !!!! This was a blessing for a working couple like us. How much further could we inconvenience our parents to help us. So my daughter joined my wifey to travel 35km (roundtrip) daily to her daycare, needless to say - always seated in an infant/toddler car-seat. Suddenly the Santro started to feel cramped and uncomfortable. There were toys, books, trinkets everywhere. The bouncy ride at the rear was getting accentuated by pathetic BLR roads (the outer ring road stretch between Sarjapur road and Marathahalli). My driver (unlike most other drivers) drives with the driver's seat pushed furthest back, thus making the rear seat even more cramped (cannot blame him as he is rather tall + we believe the driver must be comfortably seated when driving). Change seemed inevitable, but we were trying to live with it, delay it as much as possible.



GOVERNMENT HELPS MAKE PERSONAL DECISIONS
Well, with petrol prices shooting up from Rs 50 (2 years back) to Rs 78 (per liter currently in BLR), a change was definitely INEVITABLE. We could not afford to keep 2 petrol cars with a combined running of over 50KM per day. Fuel expenses were shooting up and we knew it was sooner rather than later to switch to diesel.



LETTING IT GO
This was always going to be a very tricky decision. I absolutely loved the Fusion, but the Santro was very close to heart (it was our first car). We also had very limited budget and that meant we had to let go of the Fusion (the Santro would fetch us close to nothing). An post on TeamBHP classifieds helped us find a very passionate buyer (a fellow and ardent BHPian). Was a difficult (but essential) decision that we had to make.



THE SEARCH BEGINS
Finding a well-maintained pre-owned Diesel car is NOT easy. Trust me, I have been searching for one for last 3-4 months (while travelling to work on my rickety Kinetic Honda). We had an open mind (or should i admin no clear requirements) when we started. Anything and everything from a used Ford Fusion TDCi to Tata Safari Dicor to Mahindra Scorpio CRDe/mHawk was on our initial list. To be very frank, for some time I was even looking at a pre-owned Chevrolet Tavera as well. But after a couple of weeks, we started to understand what we were looking for (did i mention - this would be used by my wife/kid, not me and would be driver driven)

1. must be a Diesel (heard that before, eh?)
2. Budget of 6L max (ruled out all budget SUVs)
3. Two most important criteria - Backseat comfort/Space and Ride quality.
4. VFM (that's applicable by default to all cars we buy)
5. Preferably something that is still in warranty (a nice-to-have).



THE SHORTLIST
Our 5 requirements practically struck off all options we intially had besides three - Tata Indica Vista, Tata Manza and the Ford Figo. The Ford Fusion TDCi made a wildcard entry into this shortlist (though the Ride Quality was known to be bumpy). It was very close to heart and honestly topped our shortlist. Started actively tracking online portals (filtering out any dealer cars). A lot of petrols were up for sale in the market, some extremely mouthwatering deals (e.g. Mitsubishi Cedia) but the focus could not be lost. 3-4 months of active search resulted in no results.



PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE
There was none left. My daily commute on my really-old Kinetic Honda on absolutely pathetic BLR roads (probably the worst state ever after we moved here 7 years back) meant any traces of patience left, were vanishing rapidly. Ford Fusion Diesels were not easily available and those which were commanded a huge 2-2.5L premium over their Petrol siblings. This topped the list but was the first to get knocked off. The Vista could not shake off it's Indica tag (and the associated Taxi image) and wifey was strictly against it. The boot space was limited and I was not too keen on the central console. Was struck off the list too. Next was the Figo. There were very few specimens for sale in the pre-owned market and we contemplated buying a new Figo. Test drove one and it was off the shortlist instantly. Reasons?, few but significant. Very noisy (at least the TD car) and we could not stop thinking how similar but inferior it was it was to the Fusion (primarily in terms of space/power/refinement/big-car feel). Left us with the Tata Manza.


HYUNDAI, FORD AND NOW A TATA???
Wifey did not like it at all. Her friends/colleagues reconfirmed her doubts. TATA, no WAY !!!! Took me a lot of effort to convince her. She kinda knew that she earlier did not want the Fusion either but it really suited our need, so she agreed but very reluctantly. The Team-BHP official review helped. Further I had posted some time earlier on behalf of my friend who was looking for a car in the 12-15L budget with the best rear-seat comfort (given his back problems) and GTO actually suggested to consider the Tata Manza (while saving a significant amount of money). That was saying a lot, specially from an ex-Tata Indigo owner and a Team BHP stalwart who understands cars very well. So the search began (again). Fortunately a month later found something in budget. This was a 2010 Feb Aura model (unfortunately no ABS). Sparingly run (with under 9K KMS, and some plastic covers still not taken off), Well-maintained. The guy who had bought the car had moved to the US (work assignment) and his father (with a POA) was conducting the sale. Some unfortunate turn of events led to a month's delay but the buyer now was back in India (for a short period). Finally settled the deal and got the car home yesterday. BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT..............
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Old 13th November 2011, 09:10   #2
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THE BIG OVERSIGHT
I took all documents the next day to photocopy and came in for a SHOCKER !!! The RC Card that was neatly placed in a pouch was a LAMINATED PHOTOCOPY. Knowing the seller (since i have been interacting with him for close to a month) i knew this was a genuine oversight, but mind did start playing games. Called up the owner, who wasn't sure if he had any other documents, but promised to search and call back. I was How could i not be careful when picking up the documents. Thankfully a couple hours later got a call from the owner saying he found the original RC card and went and picked it up. Handed over all documents to my broker (a friendly neighborhood mechanic who handles all such stuff for me) and now submitted to RTO. Hopefully should get the ownership transfer completed in a fortnight or so.

Last edited by sachinayak : 13th November 2011 at 09:14.
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Old 13th November 2011, 09:19   #3
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THE INITIAL EXPERIENCE
For the last couple of days have been driving the Manza for my daily commute to work and back. Want to get acquainted with the car (probably a couple of weeks) before I hand it over to our driver. The car (with it low usage) still feels brand new and still retains its new car smell + some untouched plastic covers. Ride quality is not as plush as i expected (probably had set the bar too high with online reviews) but interior space in incredible. Still getting used to switching from Petrol to Diesel, but getting there. Features are good and Wifey, though still not very happy about the TATA badge, is beginning to like it (me thinks).
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Old 13th November 2011, 10:01   #4
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

KABHI KHUSHI KABHIE GHAM (Disclaimer: some not product related)

1. A couple of thread's on TeamBHP were rebuilding my faith about TATA's sincere effort to improve including a Good Service Experience (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2573689 (Tata Manza Aura+ : Well rounded Family Sedan, 6500Kms report)), a very sweet instance of sending a potential customer a scale model (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2395323 (Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!)) and an improved product and good ownership experience of the Aria (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ght-place.html), but a latest ownership thread on two Arias with innumerable issues (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ownership.html (Tata Aria Pride - Zero Pride in Ownership)) has completely shaken my faith. Though i purchased a TATA vehicle will not recommend someone from buying one unless my own experience suggests otherwise. It is definitely a hit or a BIG MISS.

2. The previous owner got better offers (that i know off from a different source) after we struck the deal. Being a thorough gentleman though, he stuck to his commitment.

3. We wanted to purchase extended warranty (IMHO a must for any Tata car). But Concorde Motors informed that this can be done only within the first 14 months of car purchase and not later. I was dejected. Thankfully when we were going through the purchase documents, the previous owner had already purchased extended warranty (and did not remember that). So still have two and a quarter year of warranty pending, which is a first for me. None of my previous cars had any warranty coverage.

4. The OEM music setup is AMAZING. The previous owner claimed he never changed the setup since he too found it very good. Bluetooth streaming is super convenient. I do not need any FM Tuner, CD player, Aux Input or USB Stick now. Taking calls when driving is very tempting but need to refrain.

5. The instrument cluster with its white backlight is uber-cool. Makes you wonder why would anyone have a red/orange/blue/green backlight. This, though small, is very elegant and classy. Larger sized dials would really give it a real up-market feel.

6. The MID display is very fuzzy. Almost like it has a layer of plastic cover that is not removed. Have seen this on multiple ownership reviews of the Manza on this forum. Not sure how to get this fixed.

7. The steering mounted controls are very poorly executed. Small buttons, the text seems like it will fade with some usage and NOT backlit. I know they are now backlit (at least in the Elan Celebration version) but they should have been backlit right from start. Plus they are very tiny and unlike some really good steering controls offered by other cars.

8. NO PHOTOS AS OF NOW :( Did not get any photo ops. Hopefully a weekend drive to the Airport will provide the right settings for this.
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Old 13th November 2011, 10:09   #5
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

Thread moved to Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 13th November 2011, 16:28   #6
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

Congratulations on getting the Manza. It is a great car and it will keep you happy as long as you take good care of it. IMO, you made a really good decision by switching to diesel. And, I haven't felt that the MID is fuzzy or something. Have you tried cleaning it properly?
As per the TATA badge is concerned, it does grow over you after some time. Here is a link to my thread, should you have any query or you need to share something, feel free to drop a post.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...anza-elan.html (My Tyrian Wine beauty! The Manza Elan)

Last edited by DeKay : 13th November 2011 at 16:32.
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Old 13th November 2011, 18:06   #7
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Thanks DeKay, have been following your (and other) ownership thread of the Tata Manza and though the decision was already made, all ownership threads kind of reinforced the same.

Regarding the MID display, it is not unclean but almost like a transparent piece of plastic has been accidentally replaced by a piece of frosted/matt finish plastic. This is something reported in multiple ownership threads (mainly from 2010) and may be something that Tata may have now fixed.

Last edited by sachinayak : 13th November 2011 at 18:07.
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Old 14th November 2011, 18:36   #8
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

Congratulation Sachin!! From both Dr. Suraj and DeKay's reports Manza is good buy and I hope you have as much fun and satisfaction as these guys do.

I am going to follow your thread too, as it seems yours was the situation as I am in (in terms of brand belief in the family). So your updates and experience (on how to convince family) may play a big role even though i am after the smaller sibling. So do put in a detailed update from time to time.
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Old 14th November 2011, 20:40   #9
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

Congrats on the pre-owned Manza! Wish you miles of happy & safe motoring! Looking forward for the pics as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
Our 5 requirements practically struck off all options we intially had besides three - Tata Indica Vista, Tata Manza and the Ford Figo. The Ford Fusion TDCi made a wildcard entry into this shortlist (though the Ride Quality was known to be bumpy).
Wondering why didn't you shortlist Verito? Was it due to the "Meru" taxi image ? Otherwise from what I know, Verito is equally good / better than Manza in most of the parameters.

And I never knew Fusion had a bumpy ride quality. Thought it had the same Ford DNA of the best ride & handling package. And from some Fusion TDCi owners, I got to know that you will end up spending in the range of 10K+ for every 10K km service - Now that's quite expensive to maintain.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 14th November 2011 at 20:41.
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Old 15th November 2011, 01:22   #10
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Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
So your updates and experience (on how to convince family) may play a big role even though i am after the smaller sibling. So do put in a detailed update from time to time.
To early to comment, but so far so good. Hope to update this thread regularly. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Wondering why didn't you shortlist Verito? Was it due to the "Meru" taxi image ? Otherwise from what I know, Verito is equally good / better than Manza in most of the parameters.
Three Reasons
1. Taxi Image (very difficult to disassociate).
2. Finding a used Diesel Logan with low mileage is very difficult.
3. I personally found the design too bland and the incorrect wiper orientation put me off completely.



Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
And I never knew Fusion had a bumpy ride quality. Thought it had the same Ford DNA of the best ride & handling package. And from some Fusion TDCi owners, I got to know that you will end up spending in the range of 10K+ for every 10K km service - Now that's quite expensive to maintain.
The Fusion (like other Ford cars, as I understand) has a slightly stiff suspension/tuning that results in improved handling at the cost of ride quality. Maintaining the Fusion was a known devil (given our experience with the Petrol Fusion+).
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Old 19th November 2011, 00:28   #11
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Finally some pics to share from today's airport visit -
Attached Images
  

Last edited by sachinayak : 19th November 2011 at 00:31.
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Old 19th November 2011, 00:54   #12
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Notes from a week's experience with the Manza
Note that my daily drive to work (from Richmond Town to old Airport Road) entails a 7km (one-way) drive that can take anything between 30 mins (on a good day) to an hour and half on a bad evening (which is not very uncommon).


THINGS I MISS
  • Engine Performance - The Fusion's 1.6L Duratec Engine was a gem. Extremely smooth and refined.
  • The smooth shifts of the Fusion. The Manza's gear box is still rough and nowhere close to the car it has replaced.
  • The clutch. The Manza's clutch is really hard.
  • ABS :( If only i could fit Diesel + Space + ABS + Low Mileage in our budget


THINGS I EXPECTED TO BE BETTER
  • Guess this is the "diesel lag", but the engine response is nowhere close to the Fusion's Duratech. Guess I should have never expected that.
  • The ride quality is not very very smooth. Need to drive another Manza to see if this is just an issue with my vehicle.
  • NVH. The diesel clatter (not a clatter really but the constant noise) irritates me.
  • Fuel Efficiency - get around 12kmpl as per MID with AC. Close to what the Fusion Petrol would give.
  • MID Information - The external temperature displayed is incorrect and the display still sucks.
  • The car wobbles slightly (but noticeably) between 70kmph and 85kmph. Need to get the wheels aligned/balanced asap.
  • The power window switches are setup such that I have lost count of the number of times i have operated rear windows instead of front windows.


THINGS I REALLY REALLY LOVE
  • THE FUEL BILL - a full-tank now does not pinch as much.
  • Blue 5 - still cannot get over how useful this is.
  • Space - wifey now complains that it is too much.
  • MID - Very useful to have.
  • Steering mounted controls - How could one ever have cars without these. If only the quality of the buttons was better.
  • Agile - despite it's large dimensions, the Manza is very easy to drive (not to park)


Though i may sound as if i am really dissatisfied with the car, it is completely opposite as of now. The car will be driven by our driver and satisfies our requirements to a T.

Last edited by sachinayak : 19th November 2011 at 01:04.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:48   #13
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

and how much did you pay for it..??
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Old 20th November 2011, 22:40   #14
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Default Re: Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza

Sachinayak, this is with reference to what you said about the ride not being smooth. What is the tyre pressure you're maintaining? Incorrect tyre pressure may lead to bad ride quality.
As per the power window switches are concerned, give them a little time and you will get used to this setup. And I am really surprised to hear you complaining about the NVH. I must say that the Manza is one of the best when it comes to this. Almost all diesels in this price bracket are much more worse. Try travelling in an Innova for example, you will feel that the Manza is much more silent and smooth compared to it.

Lastly, what led you to the conclusion that the MID shows wrong outside temperature? Just a doubt.

Last edited by DeKay : 20th November 2011 at 22:41.
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Old 21st November 2011, 07:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvs View Post
and how much did you pay for it..??
5.75L (but then, BLR resale prices are highest in India)



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeKay View Post
Sachinayak, this is with reference to what you said about the ride not being smooth. What is the tyre pressure you're maintaining?
Am maintaining 32ps in all tyres (as specified in the user manual) and have also switched to Nitrogen. BTW, do not get me wrong that the ride quality is bad, it is only that having read multiple reviews on TeamBHP, my expectations were probably higher.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeKay View Post
And I am really surprised to hear you complaining about the NVH. I must say that the Manza is one of the best when it comes to this.
This again may not be an issue with the Manza, but rather with my expectation. This is my first experience driving a diesel car (excluding the short drive of an incredibly noisy Figo test car). Am considering the sound deadening treatment offered by Tata Motors (3M or Wuerth). Fits in the overall budget set for car purchase



Quote:
Originally Posted by DeKay View Post
Lastly, what led you to the conclusion that the MID shows wrong outside temperature? Just a doubt.
On a cool BLR night, the MID displays 35C. A few km into the drive it drops down to 26C. Again when stationary it displays a higher ambient temperature. I do not really care much of this info, but just an FYI.


Further, the lack of clarity on the MID is really irritating me, will put up pics later today to illustrate the issue.
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