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Old 22nd November 2011, 21:03   #46
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Oh just take a drive in the 530d will you . Its got the adjustable suspension, a much bigger iDrive. A much cooler instrument cluster, HUD, and rear tv's incase that makes any difference. The interior does manage to look more upmarket. Check out the red/brown leather. And the 40bhp and 90nm make a bigger difference than you think. Either way if you are spending 50+ why not just reassure your decision if you are so set on the Audi

EDIT - Oops the 525d too has the tv's at the back.
hey, I have been such a BMW fan that people got sick of me on the forums in the US have frequented for 10 years to where they stopped listening to anything I had to say about BMWs.

I know BMWs and I know cars. People who've known me for a decade have their jaws hanging open that I am not kissing the F10's tyre valve caps on this.

I've spent 20 years watching Audi struggle against BMW, smiled smugly at the total awesome of BMW and I have gnashed my teeth and felt bitter and unhappy as I have watched BMW stumble (in my view) repeatedly in the last 5 years as Audi has gone from strength to strength and left me finally feeling that BMW no longer has the substance to fend off the four ringed brand and must now rely on loyalty and faith to be regarded the best.

The M3 remains the greatest car on the face of the earth (MX-5 and Lotus Elise excluded) and I can never forget the awesome experience that the sport versions of the E36 and E46 platforms provided.

but frankly, I have accepted that BMW has lost its way and it is no longer the company the produced the greats. As its board has decided that it must be beat mercedes and Audi at their game, BMW has lost its own roots (except in the 3er). the 6 series is a disgrace. The last truly magnificent 7 was the E38. Both Z4s have been a joke. the X6M has proved beyond doubt that BMW has sold is soul and its character.

Only the 3er retains the family honor and the 1 series (not the hatch) is an able partner.

I just came to my farm so there will be no test drives of the 530d this week, but next week before closing the deal on the A6, I'll see if I can find a demo 530 in delhi.

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Old 22nd November 2011, 21:11   #47
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Only the 3er retains the family honor and the 1 series (not the hatch) is an able partner.

I just came to my farm so there will be no test drives of the 530d this week, but next week before closing the deal on the A6, I'll see if I can find a demo 530 in delhi.
Well then I'm one of the lucky few who got one the last batch of the E90s.

I agree that Audi is really the best at the moment, and the best all rounder. And I would have had an Audi in my garage had it not been for them messing up the base A4s. No DSG firstly, you have to pay 50l for a 3 litre A4 to get DSG. Even the diesel is 140bhp whereas the cheaper cousin, the Passat has the 170bhp engine. Those were 2 big NOs for me and that sealed the deal for the 3. The C class was crap to drive so it was out.

But for the A6 Audi has upped the game. The interiors are beautiful, and the F10s interiors are no match. Yet when it comes to driving pleasure even the newer Bimmers have a slight advantage compared to the other 2. They still manage to make you feel more connected to the car and more in control. Thats why I have a feeling that the 530d may just bring back a slight bit of respect for BMW from you, even though you will probably choose the A6. I believe that a TD of another variant will just not cut it, no matter whether the chassis is the same or not.
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Old 28th November 2011, 01:38   #48
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Did you TD the A6 with the optional, couple of lakh (every option seems to cost a few lakhs) multimedia package? If not i'm surprised you found the screen to be better than on the 5. The new idrive screens are really excellent in terms of resolution. The 2011 320d (e90 lci) that i owned had a screen that simply blows the A6's standard offering away. I found the display on the A6 to be pixellated and the interface kind of Chinese-y, if you know what i mean.
If you felt let down by the interiors on the 525 you really NEED TO CHECK OUT THE 530D because it is simply a class apart in that department.
I found the A6 3.0 TDI to be very comfortable without being plush. For all its negatives vs the E90, no one can say that the F10 5 is NOT plush. While the A6 is immensely quick what I liked best was I felt comfortable with its size in exactly 5 seconds of driving it. It felt like a much smaller car and I was flicking it through traffic with ease. The F10 takes some getting used to on narrow roads.
Is the A6 fun to drive? It is, but in a very refined, civilized way. While the F10 is much softer than the much loved and maligned E60, it is still a brute, thanks to all that power going to the REAR wheels as against all four on the Audi, and just for that it is still king as far as i am concerned.
If i had the money and had to choose between the two i would plonk it on the 530D any day. It has everything out of the box, no ridiculously priced "options", and soft or not, is still a joy to drive.

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Only the 3er retains the family honor and the 1 series (not the hatch) is an able partner.

I just came to my farm so there will be no test drives of the 530d this week, but next week before closing the deal on the A6, I'll see if I can find a demo 530 in delhi.
I totally agree with you here...even with the servotronic steering the 3 retains that connected through the seat of the pants feeling. Somehow when you are in a 3 nothing else matters. You dont seem to care about features and screens and ride quality ... you just want to drive!
I would however still URGE you to take a TD of the 530D. I have tested both the A6 3.0 TDI and the 530D extensively and while the former is very very good car the latter is just mind blowing.

Last edited by ajmat : 28th November 2011 at 08:28.
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Old 28th November 2011, 17:45   #49
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

None of the A6 option packs are impressive (meager and appallingly overprices), but then none of the things that the base A6 is missing but which the 530D provides as standard impress me either. If I (or my dad) were decided to buy an A6, the 530D's reversing camera or rear LCD screens or headsup display would not cause us to switch to the BMW.

I am also curious what is it about the 530D's interior that makes it so much better than the 525d's. A bigger better screen isn't going to do it.

As to "mindblowing", exactly how is it mindblowing? Its performance is in the same league as the A6. My mind is far from blown by the chassis performance of the F10. A bigger screen a bigger interior feature set isn't going to change anything.

Right now we're on track for the petrol A6 so I don't know whether I should bother with the 530D at all, but I guess with the car not yet bought, it can't hurt to consider the options. I asked the dealer about 535i twice and each time he promised to get back to me but I didn't hear back. Its worth noting though that the F10 535i lost comparison tests to the PREVIOUS generation A6 3.0T, such as here http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests never mind with the present one.

Last edited by Harbir : 28th November 2011 at 18:07.
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Old 28th November 2011, 21:45   #50
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

Hi Harbir

By the speed you are reviewing Different Cars for you & your Dad across different platforms you can soon come with an Auto Car Magazine and you write much better than many other Journalists !

Ok , my take on your recent choices -

1 If you want these cars for Self Driving any of these will be fine, specially 530D . Small but few things does differentiate this from 525D like the Sport & Comfort mode which changes the Chassis setup , a much sportier Gear box with Paddle shift besides other frills like Navigation & HUD .
2 BMW has advantage over Audi on Maintenance costs , you can simply pick the package & forgot about the expenses , with Audi you may need high five figure INRs for regular Maintenance .
3 If you or your Dad wants to sit in Rear - none of these cars will serve the purpose , rear Leg room of these cars is very bad even less than some Mid Size cars like Honda City & Corolla besides these are quite hard compared with Japanese .
4 If you must buy something for Rear seat Comfort - stick with 7 series or S Class . If this goes out of budget than look for a maintained BMW pre-owned , they have officially launched these - have a look at

BMW used cars

Or else buy an Innova with captain Seats + 320 D ( If You can wait till Feb / March for the new one or else pick the new one with high discounts )

Try to stick with Diesel , not because of savings on fuel but for resale - Diesel ones will resell at much higher rate.

I will be eagerly waiting for your ownership review

Last edited by Turbanator : 28th November 2011 at 21:47.
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:29   #51
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Hi Harbir

By the speed you are reviewing Different Cars for you & your Dad across different platforms you can soon come with an Auto Car Magazine and you write much better than many other Journalists !

Ok , my take on your recent choices -

1 If you want these cars for Self Driving any of these will be fine, specially 530D . Small but few things does differentiate this from 525D like the Sport & Comfort mode which changes the Chassis setup , a much sportier Gear box with Paddle shift besides other frills like Navigation & HUD . - Probably. Each ones own choice.

2 BMW has advantage over Audi on Maintenance costs , you can simply pick the package & forgot about the expenses , with Audi you may need high five figure INRs for regular Maintenance .- Yes BMW does have meticulous packages but heaven knows from where you found out an Audi will need regular 5-figure maintenance ? Audi has nothing like BSI but Secure covers most if not all headaches. TAKE IT FROM AN AUDI A4 3.0 TDI OWNER. Audi has had its fair share of horror stories in the past as far as A.S.S and the shreyans fiasco is concerned but otherwise IMHO, Audi A.S.S is largely criticized on this forum and i dont know for what.

3 If you or your Dad wants to sit in Rear - none of these cars will serve the purpose , rear Leg room of these cars is very bad even less than some Mid Size cars like Honda City & Corolla besides these are quite hard compared with Japanese .- 100% agree. My civic has more space at the rear than the externally larger A4. No questions asked, the civic is downright spacious, where as the A4, thanks to the transmission tunnel isnt exactly generous with space.



Try to stick with Diesel , not because of savings on fuel but for resale - Diesel ones will resell at much higher rate. - Already adviced that but he prefers the refinement and creaminess of the petrol which to be fair is right. I own a V6 diesel and while diesels r taking huge strides forward in refinement and probably more fun to drive compared to the equivalent petrol, there is just no matching a petrol's refinement so far.

I will be eagerly waiting for your ownership review
Replied in bold above.

Last edited by PlatzdaTurbo : 29th November 2011 at 10:32.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:18   #52
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Audi has nothing like BSI but Secure covers most if not all headaches.
What is this "Secure" you are referring to? Is this Audi's offering similar to BMW's BSI? Can you share any further info on this?

Thanks
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Old 1st December 2011, 18:00   #53
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

Just curious, why is the A6 not provided with HuD in India while people in Europe get to enjoy it?

If BMW can incorporate the same in their 530d in India, why not Audi?
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Old 1st December 2011, 20:13   #54
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

Audi claims that the Indian sunlight is too harsh for it to be properly visible 100% of the time.

To me that sounds a bit sketchy (doesn't it get damned bright in texas too?) but its not a make or break thing for me.
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Old 1st December 2011, 23:11   #55
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

ps. my guess is, they just didn't include HUD in the india specification when they were doing an assessment of the optimal package vs cost. They chose some things and left out others, and ended up with a car that has some things the rivals don't and is missing some things the rivals have.

then when asked about the absence of the HUD by the press, they just made up some bogus story about the bright indian sun.

so really, you have to judge for yourself whether the feature set that audi chose works better for you than what, say, BMW chose. its certainly not under equipped just because it doesn't have HUD and rear LCD screens
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Old 21st December 2011, 09:44   #56
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

Picking up the car today, if all goes well. Last minute negotiating going on. I am pushing them to include the extended warranty in the discounted price already agreed.
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Old 21st December 2011, 10:58   #57
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Picking up the car today, if all goes well. Last minute negotiating going on. I am pushing them to include the extended warranty in the discounted price already agreed.

Heartiest Congrats man !! A6 3.0T right ? You have picked an absolutely scintillating monster of a car. Wish you many happy miles with it.
Yea pushing them would help IMO. They will eventually include extended warranty. After all you have gone for the flagship A6 petrol variant. It isnt exactly quick to go off the floors, the supercharged petrol.
Anyway congrats again and some pictures awaited when she comes home
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Old 21st December 2011, 12:31   #58
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

Thank you! They agreed to include the extended warranty and put the insurance at 50% off which brought the total discount to 450,000. But the car needs it's PDI done so can't have it till tomorrow. Will post pictures.

And yes it's the 3.0T. As you said, it's not flying out the showrooms and my dad will have to deal with that at resale time so I feel no embarrassment pushing them. In fact I think that unless the dealer makes Zero profit on a thirsty petrol that no one wants, the deal is not as good as it could have been. And my guess is, there is still room for profit in the price my dad is paying, but it's ok

As for why petrol, as I already mentioned, the level of refinement, smoothness, silkiness is in another league from the 3.0TDI. If you think of fuel costs, yeah, it's worrying, but if you think of the additional cost of fuel over the years plus the lower resale in terms of NPV and add that to the purchase price, the 3.0T absolutely feels worth that much more than the TDI for the big step up you get in refinement. You pay more but you get more. The question is whether a buyer considers what you get worth what it costs. Most don't. I do.

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Old 21st December 2011, 12:55   #59
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

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Thank you! They agreed to include the extended warranty and put the insurance at 50% off which brought the total discount to 450,000. But the car needs it's PDI done so can't have it till tomorrow. Will post pictures.

And yes it's the 3.0T. As you said, it's not flying out the showrooms and my dad will have to deal with that at resale time so I feel no embarrassment pushing them. In fact I think that unless the dealer makes Zero profit on a thirsty petrol that no one wants, the deal is not as good as it could have been. And my guess is, there is still room for profit in the price my dad is paying, but it's ok

As for why petrol, as I already mentioned, the level of refinement, smoothness, silkiness is in another league from the 3.0TDI. If you think of fuel costs, yeah, it's worrying, but if you think of the additional cost of fuel over the years plus the lower resale in terms of NPV and add that to the purchase price, the 3.0T absolutely feels worth that much more than the TDI for the big step up you get in refinement. You pay more but you get more. The question is whether a buyer considers what you get worth what it costs. Most don't. I do.

450,000 off is an amazing deal in its own right even if you think there was more scope, considering the car concerned is the all new A6 & why not 3.0 TDi is a question i had asked a lot earlier. I already have my questions answered and also see the advantages the petrol has over the diesel
3.0 TDi makes sense for people with high running like me and who also want their fair share of fun. Any lower diesel just wont do it for them.
I am still having the time of my life in the A4 3.0 TDi after 1.5 years so i can imagine how much you/your dad will enjoy high revving that mad supercharged petrol.
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Old 21st December 2011, 13:14   #60
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Default Re: Diesels: Test drove an A6 3.0TDI and a BMW 525d

The 3.0tdi is a massively thrusty engine, with bottom and midrange torque reminiscent of a big block American V8. I wouldn't be surprised if the TDI makes twice or thrice as much torque at 1500rpm as the 3.0 supercharged petrol. It's certainly a lot of big dirty grin inducing fun. And in the absence of a manual transmission, this makes the TDI faster in normal Indian driving than the petrol. Autos and DSGs are just not conducive to the sort of deliberate and finely metered rev management that Peaky engines require. DSGs work well as autos, and they work very well when you are going balls to the wall, but they are not so good at power band management as manuals anywhere between the sedate and the balls out zones. Given this handicap, the 3.0TDI is much more effortlessly speedy than the 3.0T.

In the smaller lighter a4, I can only salivate at how spectacular it must be.

But for us, the breathtaking stillness and silkiness of the petrol in terms of NVH won the day because in the end, my dad is buying the car to get the most refined, sophisticated experience for his money.

To be sure, the massive performance of the TDI, it's still impressive refinement, and huge cost savings make it both a very fun and very sensible buy. But petrolheads haven't gone entirely extinct just yet.

Last edited by Harbir : 21st December 2011 at 13:19.
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