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Old 31st January 2012, 13:59   #46
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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Originally Posted by Sathya_sc View Post
The ecu adapts itself to the driving style.
I am finding this a little hard to digest. At the same time I hope this is true. Very expensive cars have advanced systems wherein you have control of engine behavior via various settings in their Car Menu's. A Fiat Linea is far from any of those breeds. However; I still have the engine vibration problem. I have no clue how to address it. If the dealer cannot detect it; I don't know who can. Besides; these chaps depend on the scanner to detect any and every problem. If the scanner does not report anything, everything is assumed to be normal.

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Originally Posted by Amartya View Post
I don't think the Linea has an ECU with multiple maps
The Mitsubishi Lancer Invex 1.8 was probably the only car in its segment, back in day to have a gearbox that sensed driving pattern and adjusted accordingly.

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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
How many miles under the hood now?
A shade over 2000km.

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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
Are the current crop of Fiat owners still facing the 5000kms transformation?
What did you mean by this?

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Originally Posted by aqualeo2040 View Post
My GP felt somewhat restrained till 5k (felt really strained doing 140clicks on NH4)
Higher speeds don't feel strained. 170Kmph was easy to achieve but then this is a 114 bhp car. It should feel this way. I find the initial lacking.

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Originally Posted by sanjaymugur View Post
this is due the fuel efficiency optimization techniques programmed in Magneti Marelli ECU
I have noticed this even on a friends first generation Fiat Palio 1.6 Gtx. I don't think this is a good way to program the ecu. Or rather; it is alright, but the ecu should instantly recognize you are driving and switch the map.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 31st January 2012 at 14:04.
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Old 31st January 2012, 14:33   #47
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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Originally Posted by mnemonic View Post
Now coming to vb-san's point. I second him here and you do get rear facing baby seats for 3 month olds...Happy and Safe Motoring!
My son is too small to be in a child seat even if it does exist. Besides; no baby is going to sit quiet. How do you deal with this? No parent wants a crying baby. My wife is not going to leave him alone in a child seat right now. The safest option for a new born is in the mothers arm's, buckled at the back.

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
A bit late into the party, but hearty congrats anyways for the TJet. Fantastic car and nice choice of colour too. My question though is- how are you coping with the restraint to be exercised while running in of the new engine
Thank you very much.

It is a very hard number to maintain but I believe the benefits will be seen in the long run. Its not about power. You do this only for the first 1000km. My car was running at 100kmph at a shade over 2300rpm. It is about bedding the engine well so refinement stays intact in the long run.

The running IN engine speed varies depending on the car, engine capacity and engine behavior. You can probably rev to a comfortable 3000rpm on a new petrol Swift. You have to carefully listen to the engine and observe how it sounds, feels and shift accordingly. This is how I do it. There is no hard rule for running IN a engine. Avoid sudden, short bursts of high engine speeds is all you need to observe.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
2k is pretty silly, I'm sure you will end up lugging the engine and causing even more damage. Where did you get the 2k figure from?
Nowhere. This was just my way of doing it and please don't call it silly. Every car model has its own engine characteristics. If you have driven a T Jet, you will agree with me that 2000rpm is all you need to run around the city. It has excellent torque and the turbo starts spooling up around this range so you get a very good head start. I have never lugged the engine.

Every car manual I have read talks about using the throttle gradually for the first few 100km. There must be a reason for this and all I can think of is bedding the engine. I would not care if I were running an electric car. An internal combustion engine has several moving parts.

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
I think if you want to give it some stick, just wind down the windows (B'lore must be quiet chill, now) and give it some stick. Your car has a small capacity turbo motor so if drop beneath 2k rpm it will be slow to respond and may also stall when you go over the notorious B'lore Speed Breakers.
I finally did. It was absolute joy.
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Old 31st January 2012, 14:59   #48
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
It is a very hard number to maintain but I believe the benefits will be seen in the long run. Its not about power.

You can probably rev to a comfortable 3000rpm on a new petrol Swift. You have to carefully listen to the engine and observe how it sounds, feels and shift accordingly. This is how I do it. There is no hard rule for running IN a engine. Avoid sudden, short bursts of high engine speeds is all you need to observe.
I agree with you. Like I said earlier, even though most modern engines are advocated as not requiring a run in, I still would do it just to be on the safer side of things. After all, this purchase is something that I have saved up for during the last few years, and another month of careful driving is a reasonable sacrifice (if I can even call it that) in order to bed in the moving parts properly, and to ensure the long term well being of the engine.

Listening to the engine is something I have been doing very closely. The Swift is a seat of the pants kind of car, so it does communicate well with the driver. Gradual usage of mechanical parts- be it throttle, brakes, steering etc- would be the best way to go about it. And yes, now that I have clocked about 700 kms, and with my first service coming up this weekend, I will be gradually dialing in more revs over the next few weeks. The fun then begins!!

Running in is a hotly debated topic, so I guess people have their own way of doing it!

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 31st January 2012 at 15:02.
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Old 31st January 2012, 16:35   #49
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

@sandeepmohan: Vibration is usually noticed at idle if the environment is super-quiet, I for example can feel a slight thrum through the car though it has settled over time into a quiet purr.

The thing is when you get a new car you spend a lot of time adapting to it. I have no doubt that is what you're going through. I felt the thrum was abnormal but the service engineer made me sit in two other T-Jets at idle and they behaved almost the same way, so it is really not indicative of a problem. One was a demo car that had done 30k kms and it felt much smoother but you could still feel the engine through some surfaces.

I must add that it is unusual for anyone to notice this, I thought I would have been the only one worried enough to cart it to the service center.

Also, since you have not free-revved the engine you will feel it more. After a hard run the engine feels much smoother. I have not exceeded 160km/h ever (even though the car was begging me to) but the few times I have pushed her hard she seems to run smoother. Bedding in doesn't mean running at the lowest possible RPM, but the most optimum. And the most optimum range for the T-Jet is from about 1800 to about 2800. I suspect you are (as I often was) close to lugging the engine at some points. High HP puts less strain on the engine than high torque, specially as the engine is brand new.

I would suggest don't be overcautious, that is often more dangerous than just being yourself.
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Old 31st January 2012, 17:22   #50
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Nowhere. This was just my way of doing it and please don't call it silly. Every car model has its own engine characteristics. If you have driven a T Jet, you will agree with me that 2000rpm is all you need to run around the city. It has excellent torque and the turbo starts spooling up around this range so you get a very good head start. I have never lugged the engine.

Every car manual I have read talks about using the throttle gradually for the first few 100km. There must be a reason for this and all I can think of is bedding the engine. I would not care if I were running an electric car. An internal combustion engine has several moving parts.
No offence meant to you, and that was just my opinion. That is what you choose to do and you have every right to.

I haven't driven a T-Jet but I can assure you if I do the tacho will never go below 2k rpm. Such a great free revving engine, that to turbocharged, its not meant to be driven like a diesel, then again I don't even change at 2k rpm in the diesels that I own. The car would be redlined numerous times and driven like it should be, again that is me and I am not advising you to drive like that. Incase you think revving the car is problematic anytime you are in Mumbai you are welcome to drive my Accord which has been redlined everytime I take the car out. And the engine is in perfect shape.

Well I did not say to use the throttle sharply, and yes it should be used gradually, but that does not mean the engine cannot be revved a bit. I stick with my statement that 2k rpm is way too low, for even a diesel forget a turboed free revving petrol.

After you are done bedding it in, which btw will take about 5000kms odd considering its a Fiat engine and they take those many kms to actually open up, take your car on a nice long drive and give it the beans. After a spirited drive you will notice how much smoother the car runs.

Also another thing which I saw - Yes the ECU does adapt to driving style. If you have been driving in the city for weeks and not taken the car on a nice long drive, and then take the car for a long drive. When you come back and drive it in the city you will find that the car is much more responsive owing to the ECU adjusting to the characteristics of a much faster, longer drive. But yes it will adjust itself back slowly to the city.
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Old 31st January 2012, 17:22   #51
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

I think the motoman way is also sometimes proven ..

I know people who tried this on their bikes were happy. I did not and ended up with a leaky engine head on my avenger in long run ..

Quote:
What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !
So there are many ways, and I somehow felt that all have their own reasoning.

I drove my T-Jet naturally, no over-cautiousness and still cannot see any issue. There were instances when I crossed 150 during first 2000 kms run.

If we talk about long term association with the car (1 lakh ++), then I think it is over anticipation.. We never know if petrol will be anyway affordable by then.
Just chill and enjoy the beauty what it is meant for !..
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Old 31st January 2012, 17:51   #52
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

Can i chip in with my 2 cents here? I haven't heard of ECU's adapting to driving style. Could this be your T jets way of reminding you not to give it the stick until it beds in properly.

Ok, now my suggestion is... Can you disconnect the ECU and reconnect it after 2 mins (or is the battery terminals??)

That is supposed to reset the ECU to factory spec, and maybe things should get back to normal.
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Old 1st February 2012, 21:34   #53
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post
Vibration is usually noticed at idle if the environment is super-quiet
You got that right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post
I suspect you are (as I often was) close to lugging the engine at some points.
The rpm range I have chosen is far from lugging. Not once have I felt the engine struggle even at such rpm. Acceleration is very brisk. I will try and put up a video of this soon. As you drive a T Jet, you should know this too.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
No offence meant to you
No offence taken at all. I always wait for advice from people who may know better.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Such a great free revving engine, that to turbocharged, its not meant to be driven like a diesel,
I was only trying to protect the engine during its initial days. I no longer drive like this. At the same time, I have not once red lined my new ride. However, for a T Jet to do the city run about, the shift point at 2000rpm is more than sufficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Incase you think revving the car is problematic
I think a brand new car that has not even clocked 100kms on the odo deserves better treatment. I can't for the life think of red lining a brand new car, even if done gradually.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
I stick with my statement that 2k rpm is way too low, for even a diesel forget a turboed free revving petrol.
The fastest diesel I have driven is a Punto 90. On this car, I will agree that 2000 rpm does not get you anywhere. Its just lame to even drive at such low rpms. The T Jet is very different. You must drive one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
take your car on a nice long drive and give it the beans. After a spirited drive you will notice how much smoother the car runs.
I did take her out for a spin last Saturday. Not sure if you read my previous post on this. I got thrashed a little for driving at speed with an infant in the front. Getting back to the drive, it was fantastic.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Also another thing which I saw - Yes the ECU does adapt to driving style.
I still find this a little hard to digest. Are cars at this price range available with such technology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Just chill and enjoy the beauty what it is meant for !..
I did today. Took her to work. I normally ride. Whipped her and she delivered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Can you disconnect the ECU and reconnect it after 2 mins (or is the battery terminals??)
I know how to do this but I just don't want to. Let me drive her a little more with a pedal to metal method and lets see what happens.
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Old 1st February 2012, 21:46   #54
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post

I was only trying to protect the engine during its initial days. I no longer drive like this. At the same time, I have not once red lined my new ride. However, for a T Jet to do the city run about, the shift point at 2000rpm is more than sufficient.
I understand where you are coming from completely. If you chose to stick to 2k rpm during running in it is your choice, especially if you feel the engine is not being lugged. My only point was that it would be completely safe to rev it to around 4k rpm. Everyones driving style differs.

I think a brand new car that has not even clocked 100kms on the odo deserves better treatment. I can't for the life think of red lining a brand new car, even if done gradually.
I wouldn't red line a brand new car either. But again like I said above I was just saying that it is safe to rev till 4000rpm because some people here have the notion that 2000rpm is the limit for running in which is absurd. How they drive is up to them finally, I was only stating a fact.

The fastest diesel I have driven is a Punto 90. On this car, I will agree that 2000 rpm does not get you anywhere. Its just lame to even drive at such low rpms. The T Jet is very different. You must drive one.
If I get a chance I will for sure.

I did take her out for a spin last Saturday. Not sure if you read my previous post on this. I got thrashed a little for driving at speed with an infant in the front. Getting back to the drive, it was fantastic.
Do be careful with your kiddo in the car. The Linea and the Punto are great cars, spoilt by terrible placement of the pedals. The driving position is extremely weird for taller people. Other than that I love my Puntos dynamics too.

I still find this a little hard to digest. Are cars at this price range available with such technology?
Definitely, even a Swift has this. Any modern car with an ECU would adapt a certain amount. You may or may not notice it, but it does adapt.
My replies in bold above -

EDIT -
The real fun would be after 4500rpm till the redline try it once. Also modern engines do not really need to be run in, but we still do take it a little easy just for peace of mind. Besides the engine the other mechanical parts need to bed in too right?

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 1st February 2012 at 21:53.
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Old 1st February 2012, 21:47   #55
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Gentlemen....

I took the car to work today and whipped her a little. I mashed the throttle in gears 2nd and upwards and boy did she fly. It got me signing too. A hymn I recall from my boarding school days, "Fly high in the sky let the whole world know, let the whole world know, let the whole world know. Not sure if any of you know this. Acceleration was ridiculous and it felt exactly like how the test drive cars were. I never pushed beyond 4500rpm. I was running into traffic and those stupid speed breakers all over the place. Outside temperature was 16 degrees.

I just discovered the capabilities of the engine on my car. A big Thank you for all the advice. From what I have understood, you don't need to RUN IN a modern motor car. It is good to be driven, the way you want, straight out of the showroom. Running In a car is from the 50's. It is time to move on.

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
If I get a chance I will for sure.
If you are ever around these parts, that is Bangalore, do let me know. You can have a go in my car.


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Last edited by noopster : 2nd February 2012 at 10:43.
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Old 1st February 2012, 22:23   #56
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I still find this a little hard to digest. Are cars at this price range available with such technology?
It is 'adaptive learning' that is available in most of the ECUs. This is a technique to compensate for the errors from the sensors under various operating conditions. The ECU 'guesses' the error over time and use this along with the maps to run efficiently in closed loop operation. It is true that the learning process gets affected by the driving to some extent, but it is not that ECU is learning one's driving style.
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Old 2nd February 2012, 09:22   #57
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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Old 12th February 2012, 17:28   #58
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

I read the following exchange between the OP and fellow members and was going to go away to another thread but then a post and an unrelated incident forced me to stop and comment

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Now I have to say this. The car maybe good to handle high speeds, the roads maybe prefect, but doing 130 or 170 kmph with a 3 months old baby onboard and that too without safely securing him in a child seat (couldn’t see one from the pictures and hence the assumption) is pure madness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Your point is valid and yes; it is madness. A 3 month old baby is too small to be in a baby seat. At this age, the baby is actually safer with the mother. The best I could do for my family is switch off the passenger air bag and I did that. Better than this would be to have my wife and son sitting at the back. I will do this next time around. I had them sit at the back on our first road trip during Christmas.
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Originally Posted by mnemonic View Post
Now coming to vb-san's point. I second him here and you do get rear facing baby seats for 3 month olds. In fact you can get a convertible which can double up as a front facing one after the kid is 8 kgs or so. I have picked one up for my 6 month old after going reading up and looking at a lot of seats.

Happy and Safe Motoring!

And this was that post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
My son is too small to be in a child seat even if it does exist. Besides; no baby is going to sit quiet. How do you deal with this? No parent wants a crying baby. My wife is not going to leave him alone in a child seat right now. The safest option for a new born is in the mothers arm's, buckled at the back.

While all parents want the best for their children, sometimes we are too carried away by our own beliefs and/or our overwhelming concern for our little ones that we choose to not stop and consider for a moment as to what the others are saying and ignore advice that is given without any prejudice.

Quite a few have been in a similar situation at one time or the other and yet there are those who will be there in the future. Hence for the benefit of the larger audience I would urge that we try and place the infant in appropriate child+infant seats and have the non driving parent sit alongside them in the rear seat. This way the baby will be secured and yet with one of the parents holding their hand or placing their own hand on the little one will be able to provide succor and peace to the child. If the child cries even after this, then at the risk of sounding cruel and insensitive, I suggest that one ignore the cries and carry on. Easier said than done but then it is for the greater good of all concerned.
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Old 13th February 2012, 20:51   #59
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

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If the child cries even after this, then at the risk of sounding cruel and insensitive, I suggest that one ignore the cries and carry on.
It is easy to say this and next to impossible to ignore. I was in this situation when I did the drive to Cochin. Closing in on Walayar, my son had an air lock which was discomforting for him and all hell broke loose in the car. I was losing my temper and the result of this ended up in me driving a little rash. It was impossible to ignore my son crying as I knew the discomfort he was going through and there was nothing we could do. He was okay after about 20 minutes. I could not even pull over as the roads did not permit a safe enough place.

I completely value your inputs on child safety and will slowly adopt the methods suggested. Not that I did not know the existence of a child seat.
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Old 13th February 2012, 21:11   #60
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Default Re: Fiat Linea T-Jet : The Poor Man's Ultimate Driving Machine

I can identify with your statement below as have been in similar instances more than once. All the best for the future.

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
It is easy to say this and next to impossible to ignore.
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