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Old 26th March 2012, 12:13   #31
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
That is exactly the purpose of this thread. Looking merely at the spec sheet, anyone would tend to get biased and lean towards the XUV. It was only after we got to spend some time with the Force One, did we realize the potential in that car. In my opinion, it is a true underdog.
Thanks Monaro. The above coming from a Fortuner owner surely carries a lot of weight.

This thread has definitely helped in changing the perception to some degree.



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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Deal breakers:
Lack of even basic safety features is its only glaring fault. No discs all around may be forgiven but no ABS, no airbags means it's virtually out of contention as a family carrier. I plan to lug my wife and kid, parents and the occasionally visiting relative in this- the space is just perfect with tons of legroom. Here's the good news: the ABS & airbags version is expected to come in 8 months time. no word on 4X4, though that was also announced at Auto Expo I think.
For me personally ABS, Airbags should be enough. 4 X 4??? Not really sure would venture out on to the roads less travelled to make use of it.

Would be interesting to see the revised price list with these additional safety features.
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Old 26th March 2012, 12:48   #32
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Very nice comparo, I must say.

The Force One does look impressive but isn't it a little pointless comparing it to the XUV? I understand they're both priced similarly but while the XUV is (and claims to be) an urban SUV with a lot of bells and whistles, the Force one is exactly the opp. (No ABS, Airbags, no-frills).

Both the vehicles, to me, have been designed with a different target audience in mind. The XUV makes no claim of being an offroader while the Force one claims to be the best offroader in this segment, even the sales guys confirm that when they deliberately ask the prospective customers to throw the vehicle around.
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Old 26th March 2012, 13:55   #33
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by dot View Post

But it did stop the vehicle in quick time isnt it?
Stopping was not a problem Dot, It was about how much confidence the car inspires to push it to limits which makes all the difference. If you are braking hard and if the braking does not give you enough confidence, then people might end up trying different stunts instead of plain braking for e.g. going in different directions. The problem is that if the vehicle has ABS, then why did it not get activated. We even went over a bump and wheels locked for a bit, still ABS did not get activated and I had to let go off the brakes for a split second just so that the car gets enough traction again to continue braking instead of getting into a slide. Was this system failure? I dont know but it was definitely a situational failure. If by chance any vehicle would have been coming from our sides at the junction, it would have been a difficult situation as with lack of ABS, there was not chance I could have turned in any direction and was forced to go straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
Great write up Dot, Subodh and Monaro.

Looking at the spec sheet comparison i really wonder why would a potential customer go with the Force. Only for the engine under the hood??

Monaro Bhai - While you were at it i am sure you were making mental notes and comparing it with Fortuner So any additional points to be added on that front??
Thanks Amit. Comparo sheet is like reading someones biodata and deciding to marry that person. Each vehicle according to me has a personality just like us. Its not only about what all has been put in the vehicle but also about how well it comes across together. There are lot of cars which are full of features but still do not sell and vice versa why? Because of the same reason.

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Nice review by The Good , Bad and the Ugly

Well 2 of my friends own the Force One ( Stripped down Mercedes ) as they call it. Though the cars are used on North Karnataka and with regular Bangalore trips, both the cars have done almost 85000 kms in a matter of few months, I have always seen them praise the way it runs inspite of the kms clocked. The Mercedes Engine and the Lotus suspension combo sure has done a lot good to the car, and basically reliability issues are only pertaining to the tyres and injector issues due to bad fuel quality. Breakdowns a NO NO as per them. Even a general search on the WWW. gives positive reviews of the Force One from car owners. I think that itself is a huge relief to put your money into the Force One. But how many Force One SUV's are sold Month on Month, do we have the sales figures??

And XUV..! let me not make any comments, its been the talk of the town.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...solutions.html
Thank you Pawan. That kind of odo reading is insane in just a matter of couple of months. Are these vehicles used as Taxis? because they will make very good taxis and give competition to xylo and eat in a little into Innova territory as well. But what you said talks a lot about the built quality of force one and I would love to hear what your friends have to contribute to this thread. Please welcome them here for their views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bala80 View Post
Very well written review and thanks to subodh, dot and monaro CV8 for your efforts. While I take away the general consensus amongst you is that force one has lot of potential, there seems to be a difference of observation as far as the braking is concerned, can you share more around this? I'm still not convinced about lack of ABS on a vehicle which is costing you a million bucks and has relatively high CG compared to cars.

Given the utilitarian nature of the SUV and the lack of features, force could have priced it a little lower. Though it is a product with potential, does it deserve the asking price? What do you think.

Once again, appreciate your collective effort in penning this down. I see all the three of your reviews as very neutral and honest, very well done.
Thanks Bala. You know I am a little split whether the pricing is right or on higher side. On one hand, it feels right priced but on the other, lack of features does make it feel a little more expensive. We will have to wait and see what all features are included in the revised/ 4x4 versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
Force Motors is slowly ramping its production from a mere 50 nos per month it has now come close to 500 vehicles per month with a nearly no marketing strategy. Work for 4x4 is already started & a possible launch can be expect in July-August period. Well ABS would be included with 4x4 launch & airbags would get integrated by December 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
In December it was 180 January it was 250 February it was 300, March it was planned 500 but achievable would be somewhere close to 400.

Well airbags was first planned but the supplier to whom it was delegated in 11 hour could not succeed, also technical know how of force team could have been a suspect as they don't have a single vehicle in their arsenal with ABS & Airbags. a new supplier has been identified & things are in progress.
Wow thats a lot of information and I really appreciate it. By any chance do you work for Force one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
Very nice comparo, I must say.

The Force One does look impressive but isn't it a little pointless comparing it to the XUV? I understand they're both priced similarly but while the XUV is (and claims to be) an urban SUV with a lot of bells and whistles, the Force one is exactly the opp. (No ABS, Airbags, no-frills).

Both the vehicles, to me, have been designed with a different target audience in mind. The XUV makes no claim of being an offroader while the Force one claims to be the best offroader in this segment, even the sales guys confirm that when they deliberately ask the prospective customers to throw the vehicle around.
Thanks Sharninder. You have a very valid point but let me give you slightly different perspective. Traditionally, if you look at SUV's, Their intent is to be used on rough/ off roads. Also on long rides as you are unsure as to what kind of roads you might encounter. But in India, size does matter and it is very well proven by the Fortuner. It is one of the most capable off roader available. Infact on our sites in Africa, we dont even look beyond this vehicle for daily use. But in india, it is being bought as luxury vehicle. Feature list? probably you can count them on your finger, yet its image is different and I can assure you that 90% of Fortuner owners in India have never seen "kaccha Rasta" It is this perspective that drives us to compare cars of similar price which come under same category and which will be compared by people before making a purchase. There are lot of poeple who already have perception about force motors because of its heritage of manufacturing Trax, Traveller and Trump but this is a breakaway product from the company and company needs to project its brand imagery accordingly to drive people to their showrooms

Last edited by subodh : 26th March 2012 at 14:07.
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Old 26th March 2012, 19:26   #34
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by dot View Post

The show hosts recommended Force One over XUV only because of the engine? Wow!
No they did not. But said that the Force 1 should not be ignored by buyers.

They were blown over by the Mercedes Engine as compared to XUV 500 engine.

But the comparisons were in line with your review here.

Last edited by noopster : 29th March 2012 at 12:44. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 26th March 2012, 20:27   #35
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Topping up the thread with the comparo by ACI.

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Old 27th March 2012, 12:49   #36
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Kindly have a look at this also... Force One Testdrive | TestDrive of Force One in India

Another proof of the F1 being an underdog, and waiting in the wings for it's day of sunshine
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Old 27th March 2012, 14:42   #37
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by nanduchitnis View Post
No they did not. But said that the Force 1 should not be ignored by buyers.

They were blown over by the Mercedes Engine as compared to XUV 500 engine.

But the comparisons were in line with your review here.
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Originally Posted by 220kmph View Post
Kindly have a look at this also... Force One Testdrive | TestDrive of Force One in India

Another proof of the F1 being an underdog, and waiting in the wings for it's day of sunshine
It is very true that these engines are unbeatable. Trax was also launched using one of mercedes engines. The engine which is doing duty on Force one is OM611 Mercedes Engine if I am not mistaken and it has been seen in C class and E class models from around 1998 era. Infact the previous generation C 200 had very similar technical specs as Force One engine and we all are aware of the Bullet proof characteristics of these Engines.
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Old 28th March 2012, 22:36   #38
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by subodh View Post
It is very true that these engines are unbeatable. Trax was also launched using one of mercedes engines. The engine which is doing duty on Force one is OM611 Mercedes Engine if I am not mistaken and it has been seen in C class and E class models from around 1998 era. Infact the previous generation C 200 had very similar technical specs as Force One engine and we all are aware of the Bullet proof characteristics of these Engines.

While we agree that Force One's Mercedes engine is great and bullet proof, Mahindra engines are not puny by any standards. The various engines (2.6L, 2.2L) that has served the Scorpio are generally known to be pretty robust.
Are we saying that Merc engine is actually better than the mHawk 2.2 that is serving the XUV500?
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Old 28th March 2012, 22:59   #39
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Having seen both in flesh, I would opt for XUV as it has more style and finish better than Force One. Force One looks like a very shoddy copy for you know what! Also, the rear portion is not in sync with the rest of the car.

M&M Engines are very robust and having driven two of them for 8 years, I have lot of trust and respect especially for the engine plant of M&M!

My 2 cents....

Last edited by getsurya : 28th March 2012 at 23:00.
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Old 28th March 2012, 23:17   #40
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Could The GOOD, The BAD and The Ugly also review / TD the Tata Xenon XT when they do TD the Safari Storme?

I would love to know how the Xenon fares against these 3 contenders. I kinda like the look of the Xenon XT especially when you can buy an aftermarket cab and add it to create some space for kids / luggage / "trips to the edge and beyond"
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Old 29th March 2012, 11:02   #41
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by kevinephraim View Post
Could The GOOD, The BAD and The Ugly also review / TD the Tata Xenon XT when they do TD the Safari Storme?
I had sent a TD request to Tata (Pandit Auto) for the Xenon, around 3 months ago. Those guys are yet to get back to me .

*****

Subodh, Monaro and Dotty: During the TD of both the vehicles, did any of you ever feel - maybe the vehicles need better tyres. Looking at them in flesh, I get a feeling that both of them are in need of better tyres.
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Old 29th March 2012, 11:16   #42
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
During the TD of both the vehicles, did any of you ever feel - maybe the vehicles need better tyres. Looking at them in flesh, I get a feeling that both of them are in need of better tyres.
If you see the comparo chart, the width and overall diameter of tyres in both the vehicles are same.

In a proper road, for normal uses, none of the vehicles shows a need for upgrades. During the little "off-roading" that we did on the Force One, the grip levels of Force One's tyres were very good. Not so sure of XUV500's grip levels under those conditions as tests were not done.

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Originally Posted by kevinephraim View Post
Could The GOOD, The BAD and The Ugly also review / TD the Tata Xenon XT when they do TD the Safari Storme?
ok!

Last edited by dot : 29th March 2012 at 11:20.
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Old 29th March 2012, 12:05   #43
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Post Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post

Subodh, Monaro and Dotty: During the TD of both the vehicles, did any of you ever feel - maybe the vehicles need better tyres. Looking at them in flesh, I get a feeling that both of them are in need of better tyres.
Hey swanand
I found the tyres on the Force One pretty adequate during the TD on city roads and off roads too.

The XUV, as rightly pointed by dot wasn't tested offroad, but we did not notice any lack of grip during the TD on city roads; and especially during Subodh's turn, where the vehicle performance was on top demand!

But I would love to hear from fellow XUV & Force One owners about their opinions on the Tyres.
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Old 29th March 2012, 12:25   #44
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Nice Comparo there by our Trio ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
I had sent a TD request to Tata (Pandit Auto) for the Xenon, around 3 months ago. Those guys are yet to get back to me .

*****

Subodh, Monaro and Dotty: During the TD of both the vehicles, did any of you ever feel - maybe the vehicles need better tyres. Looking at them in flesh, I get a feeling that both of them are in need of better tyres.
Xenon , IIRC , is not being manufactured as a standarad vehicle any more . Its more like on Order basis . The major chunk of the lot being manufactured is being exported to European markets .

Have driven the Xenon when it was launched , it was such a nice feeling , No disrespect but the feeling was BUTCHY in real sense , way ahead of a Safaris / Scorpios / T- Forts .

Dont know if this would be the right comparision but Xenon feels more like driving a Nissan Navara . The feeling is just splendid !!

The only drawback I personally felt was the space ( unlike all other TATA vehicles , this vehicle felt somewhat cramped )
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Old 29th March 2012, 13:39   #45
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Post Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Nice Comparo there by our Trio ...

Xenon , IIRC , is not being manufactured as a standarad vehicle any more . Its more like on Order basis . The major chunk of the lot being manufactured is being exported to European markets .
Hey JD, welcome !
Was the TD Xenon a Left Hand Drive?


@kevin
I am not too sure if the Xenon would be a comparable vehicle with the Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid, simply because the Xenon is more of a Utility Vehicle & less of a Family car.

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