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Old 29th March 2012, 15:04   #46
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
Hey JD, welcome !
Was the TD Xenon a Left Hand Drive?


@kevin
I am not too sure if the Xenon would be a comparable vehicle with the Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid, simply because the Xenon is more of a Utility Vehicle & less of a Family car.

Attachment 908744
Satyen , Thats a nice picture you pulled up !!
The TD Xenon was a RED colored Right Hand Drive vehicle , test drove it Pratham Automobiles ( Baner highway - now closed ) , a couple of years back .

I so very agree , the XENON is all together a different class of vehicle which just cant be compared to the average SUV's/ MUV's being discussed .

The idle competitor for Xenon XT would be Getaway Scorpio , for its design and the application .
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Old 30th March 2012, 11:16   #47
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Thumbs down Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

I too was waiting for the launch of Force1. But my initial impression left lot to be desired.

1. Am from Bangalore. I tried calling the Force Motors showroom near double road {below flyover} but they said there is no vehicle and they have no clue. On calling after few days / weeks they gave me a cell no for further enquiry. Tried calling but no response. Finally after months I got to know that Force1 "exclusive" showroom is in Hosur road. So next time I was passing by Hosur road I located it and went to check out.

My impression was Force Motors gave all the money to Big B and least bothered about sales in the real world.

2. Am tall. So my first priority when I check out any car is space. Leg, arm, shoulder, head... I hate when i have to "crawl" in and bend/fold and of my body parts to an uncomfortable angle during ingress/egress. I was shocked I couldn't pass my left leg past the steering wheel. No amount of pushing the seat back helped. Add the that the seat height - its very low. Neither can you adjust the steering height. I would like to have feedback from any tall guys (above 5'10"). Am sure Big B never drove it. Its a basic design fault.

2nd row of seat is ok but XUV is way more spacious and comfy. 3rd row is useless as usual.

The lazy salesman offered me test drive but I asked him how do I get in? Only then will I be able to drive.

No use putting a Merc engine, Lotus suspension, Porche brakes etc etc when basic ergonomics is all wrong for such a huge SUV
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Old 30th March 2012, 11:49   #48
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Changes are being made in assembly line for increasing production in 1st week of April. from May planned production would go up & will touch 1000 vehicles by June, which will coincide with launch of 4x4 & 4x2 with ABS is planned. Development related activities for both models is in full swing.
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Old 30th March 2012, 11:53   #49
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by rockyb View Post
I too was waiting for the launch of Force1. But my initial impression left lot to be desired.

2. Am tall. So my first priority when I check out any car is space. Leg, arm, shoulder, head... I hate when i have to "crawl" in and bend/fold and of my body parts to an uncomfortable angle during ingress/egress. I was shocked I couldn't pass my left leg past the steering wheel. No amount of pushing the seat back helped. Add the that the seat height - its very low. Neither can you adjust the steering height. I would like to have feedback from any tall guys (above 5'10"). Am sure Big B never drove it. Its a basic design fault.

2nd row of seat is ok but XUV is way more spacious and comfy. 3rd row is useless as usual.

The lazy salesman offered me test drive but I asked him how do I get in? Only then will I be able to drive.

No use putting a Merc engine, Lotus suspension, Porche brakes etc etc when basic ergonomics is all wrong for such a huge SUV
It's not that bad. Especially the seating comfort. For similar amount of cash only the Innova bests it IMO. I am 6' 2" and I did face issues in adjusting the steering to suit my style but not with the available space.
Not that I am defending the Force One as I feel it leaves a lot to be desired but it does have it's strengths similar to their other offerings like the Gurkha.

What Force needs to understand is that there is a difference between being mechanically simple [eg: Pajero] and being mechanically backward. Exposed nuts, poor rubber, poor plastics, lack of safety features et al. It takes a lot away from the good bits.

P.S.- Thanks for the lovely thread guys! But I would not buy either for totally opposite reasons. For me the XUV is overkill and the Force is.. well it's too utilitarian for today's market to justify it's price tag
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Old 30th March 2012, 11:59   #50
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

So have they made the steering height adjustable now?

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Originally Posted by ra'ul M View Post
It's not that bad. Especially the seating comfort. For similar amount of cash only the Innova bests it IMO. I am 6' 2" and I did face issues in adjusting the steering to suit my style but not with the available space.
Not that I am defending the Force One as I feel it leaves a lot to be desired but it does have it's strengths similar to their other offerings like the Gurkha.

Frustrati
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Old 30th March 2012, 12:04   #51
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by rockyb View Post
So have they made the steering height adjustable now?
It is adjustable. I'll leave that to the guys who have reviewed it recently to comment on how good they found the driving position.
What I wrote was that I did face issues with the steering height, but the seats themselves are really good and plush and so is the leg room, shoulder room etc.

Last edited by ra'ul M : 30th March 2012 at 12:11.
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Old 30th March 2012, 13:08   #52
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
Changes are being made in assembly line for increasing production in 1st week of April. from May planned production would go up & will touch 1000 vehicles by June, which will coincide with launch of 4x4 & 4x2 with ABS is planned. Development related activities for both models is in full swing.
Is that the official news . Seems u are associated with Force 1 , someway or the other . Anyways the news and the updates provided definately sound good from an end customer's perspective


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Originally Posted by ra'ul M View Post
What Force needs to understand is that there is a difference between being mechanically simple [eg: Pajero] and being mechanically backward. Exposed nuts, poor rubber, poor plastics, lack of safety features et al. It takes a lot away from the good bits.
Precisely the thought , Well said !!

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
Are we saying that Merc engine is actually better than the mHawk 2.2 that is serving the XUV500?
Realiability wise indeed the Merc is way better than Mhawk . The Mhawk however happens to be more advanced , still the merc engine plonked in the Force vehicles remain a beauty .

Force just needs to understand the fact that every customer is not a petrol- diesel head (Team Bhpian ) and fit and finish does matter a lot !! The mechanicals have to be good , but the vehicle should look good asthetically as well !!

Last edited by jealousdiamond : 30th March 2012 at 13:09.
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Old 30th March 2012, 13:48   #53
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Post Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by rockyb View Post

2. Am tall. So my first priority when I check out any car is space. Leg, arm, shoulder, head... I hate when i have to "crawl" in and bend/fold and of my body parts to an uncomfortable angle during ingress/egress. I was shocked I couldn't pass my left leg past the steering wheel. No amount of pushing the seat back helped. Add the that the seat height - its very low. Neither can you adjust the steering height. I would like to have feedback from any tall guys (above 5'10"). Am sure Big B never drove it. Its a basic design fault.

2nd row of seat is ok but XUV is way more spacious and comfy. 3rd row is useless as usual.

The lazy salesman offered me test drive but I asked him how do I get in? Only then will I be able to drive.

No use putting a Merc engine, Lotus suspension, Porche brakes etc etc when basic ergonomics is all wrong for such a huge SUV

I'm guessing your anguish is much noticeable because of the bad Sales Experience you have faced at the Bangalore Showroom.

The steering is adjustable & none of us Good, Bad & Ugly (of varying heights) had any issues with the seat positioning.

We also found row no. 2 to be spacious and roomy..as good as the XUV

Would recommend you go through post#29 of this thread which talks about 3rd row seating.

Last edited by Monaro CV8 : 30th March 2012 at 14:12.
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Old 30th March 2012, 13:50   #54
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
While we agree that Force One's Mercedes engine is great and bullet proof, Mahindra engines are not puny by any standards. The various engines (2.6L, 2.2L) that has served the Scorpio are generally known to be pretty robust.
Are we saying that Merc engine is actually better than the mHawk 2.2 that is serving the XUV500?
The difference is between the age of engine. Since Mahindra engine is a newer engine, it is a bit more refined but in terms of the durability and reliability, I would definitely put my money on Force one engine. The difference is also in terms of how advanced engine development is between mahindra and Mercedes. INfact I remember having a converasation with one of my friends who also happens to be a mechanic that the sensors doing duty on Mercedes engines can be directly installed on Mahindra engines. He had done one of these swaps and he said the Mahindra engine behaved beautifully post that. So that is the main difference in terms of expenditure on R&D by Mahindra and Mercedes, The number of vehicles which get sold with same engines; as the same Merc engine works world wide. These are just the few factors which make a hell of a difference.
Now as far as I can remember, The first generation Scorpio engines were developed in collaboration with Renault but dont know the story after that. Can someone knowledgeable shed some llight?

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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
Having seen both in flesh, I would opt for XUV as it has more style and finish better than Force One. Force One looks like a very shoddy copy for you know what! Also, the rear portion is not in sync with the rest of the car.

M&M Engines are very robust and having driven two of them for 8 years, I have lot of trust and respect especially for the engine plant of M&M!

My 2 cents....
No doubt about that getsurya. Mahindra engines are one of the best avaialble in India and quite well refined as well in terms of competition and XUV is a stunner to look at

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinephraim View Post
Could The GOOD, The BAD and The Ugly also review / TD the Tata Xenon XT when they do TD the Safari Storme?

I would love to know how the Xenon fares against these 3 contenders. I kinda like the look of the Xenon XT especially when you can buy an aftermarket cab and add it to create some space for kids / luggage / "trips to the edge and beyond"
As has been pointed out Kevin, the Xenon is not the vehicle which might fit the comparo, but if time permits, we would love to TD the Xenon and Mahindra getaway vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar View Post
I had sent a TD request to Tata (Pandit Auto) for the Xenon, around 3 months ago. Those guys are yet to get back to me .

*****

Subodh, Monaro and Dotty: During the TD of both the vehicles, did any of you ever feel - maybe the vehicles need better tyres. Looking at them in flesh, I get a feeling that both of them are in need of better tyres.
I think you have to visit in flesh to TATA dealership to get TD vehicles Swanand. Have done that personally quite a few times. In terms of tyre size, I felt XUV could have had broader tyres with the way it performs. One can truly push the car to its limits then with better tyres but no complains with the existing ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jealousdiamond View Post
Nice Comparo there by our Trio ...

Xenon , IIRC , is not being manufactured as a standarad vehicle any more . Its more like on Order basis . The major chunk of the lot being manufactured is being exported to European markets .

Have driven the Xenon when it was launched , it was such a nice feeling , No disrespect but the feeling was BUTCHY in real sense , way ahead of a Safaris / Scorpios / T- Forts .

Dont know if this would be the right comparision but Xenon feels more like driving a Nissan Navara . The feeling is just splendid !!

The only drawback I personally felt was the space ( unlike all other TATA vehicles , this vehicle felt somewhat cramped )


Quote:
Originally Posted by jealousdiamond View Post
Satyen , Thats a nice picture you pulled up !!
The TD Xenon was a RED colored Right Hand Drive vehicle , test drove it Pratham Automobiles ( Baner highway - now closed ) , a couple of years back .

I so very agree , the XENON is all together a different class of vehicle which just cant be compared to the average SUV's/ MUV's being discussed .

The idle competitor for Xenon XT would be Getaway Scorpio , for its design and the application .
Thanks JD. Your visit to this thread was long overdue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyb View Post
I too was waiting for the launch of Force1. But my initial impression left lot to be desired.

1. Am from Bangalore. I tried calling the Force Motors showroom near double road {below flyover} but they said there is no vehicle and they have no clue. On calling after few days / weeks they gave me a cell no for further enquiry. Tried calling but no response. Finally after months I got to know that Force1 "exclusive" showroom is in Hosur road. So next time I was passing by Hosur road I located it and went to check out.

My impression was Force Motors gave all the money to Big B and least bothered about sales in the real world.

2. Am tall. So my first priority when I check out any car is space. Leg, arm, shoulder, head... I hate when i have to "crawl" in and bend/fold and of my body parts to an uncomfortable angle during ingress/egress. I was shocked I couldn't pass my left leg past the steering wheel. No amount of pushing the seat back helped. Add the that the seat height - its very low. Neither can you adjust the steering height. I would like to have feedback from any tall guys (above 5'10"). Am sure Big B never drove it. Its a basic design fault.

2nd row of seat is ok but XUV is way more spacious and comfy. 3rd row is useless as usual.

The lazy salesman offered me test drive but I asked him how do I get in? Only then will I be able to drive.

No use putting a Merc engine, Lotus suspension, Porche brakes etc etc when basic ergonomics is all wrong for such a huge SUV
I guess after the exclusive showrooms opened, their dealership experience was fairly good. Infact I would say it is quite better than lot of companies operating in India. But thats what we experienced and it might vary case to case basis. The experience you mentioned regarding the Seating is quite surprising to me as I am around 5'10" and very heavy and I did not face problems getting inside the front seat. In regards to XUV seating, I agree that the space is ample but it lacks badly in under thigh support. Infact I felt the seat is best suited for 10-12 year olds thigh support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ra'ul M View Post
It's not that bad. Especially the seating comfort. For similar amount of cash only the Innova bests it IMO. I am 6' 2" and I did face issues in adjusting the steering to suit my style but not with the available space.
Not that I am defending the Force One as I feel it leaves a lot to be desired but it does have it's strengths similar to their other offerings like the Gurkha.

What Force needs to understand is that there is a difference between being mechanically simple [eg: Pajero] and being mechanically backward. Exposed nuts, poor rubber, poor plastics, lack of safety features et al. It takes a lot away from the good bits.

P.S.- Thanks for the lovely thread guys! But I would not buy either for totally opposite reasons. For me the XUV is overkill and the Force is.. well it's too utilitarian for today's market to justify it's price tag
Thanks Ra'ul. Let us hope that Force one makes all the changes we have discussed in this thread as its a lovely vehicle

Last edited by subodh : 30th March 2012 at 14:00.
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Old 30th March 2012, 13:59   #55
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

One only hopes that Force do take all, or at least some of the comments on their vehicle, a bit seriously and works on those.
Better yet, one should send them a link of this thread! They might just get elated.

What they have is a good product, some tweeks and upgrades may do it much better.

I agree Subodh, the XUV can do with broader tyres. Not that its an absolute requirement, but shall be better if upgraded.
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Old 30th March 2012, 14:31   #56
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by subodh View Post



I think you have to visit in flesh to TATA dealership to get TD vehicles Swanand. Have done that personally quite a few times. In terms of tyre size, I felt XUV could have had broader tyres with the way it performs. One can truly push the car to its limits then with better tyres but no complains with the existing ones.
Ahh .. tell me about it . Tata TD's well , I still remember I booked a Safari TD about year and a half ago . Never heard from TATA's in near future . Went ahead to the dealership Test drove and bought a Safari . Post buying around 3 months later , got a call from TATA dealership saying my TD vehicle has been sent . Asked the lady what TD vehicle , she said Sir your requested for TD of Nano and that has been arranged . I literally burst into laughter .

Bottom line : "Expect less from Indian manufactures and you would end up being happy !! "

I so very agree with Subodh on the tyre upsize for XUV . Not that its needed badly , just that it would add more to its attitude .
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Old 30th March 2012, 16:56   #57
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Thanks to Good, Bad & Ugly for the long overdue review of Force One vs XUV5OO.
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Old 30th March 2012, 18:55   #58
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

Wow - quite a fitting comparison.

And an excellent Metaphor if I may add.

Frankly, in my mind, it is a no-contest.
Owing in no small part to 3 things:

1. Brand reliability and service for this product
2. The generous serving of 'toys' making the product more appealing
3. The initial time taken for ownership as well overall cost (which is yet unknown)

Mahindra has hit the jackpot with XUV500.

But Force One - despite using the BigB as a brand ambassador has failed to even generate a buzz, far from being an impact.

Also personally I think it is just a tad too big. Making it seem a little disproportional - almost truck like.
Yet, no denying its off-road capabilities for the price bracket.
A genuinely good effort - like the 1st gen Tata Indica.
But needs more ... much more.

Excellent comparison though. Seriously. Hats off to that effort.
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Old 30th March 2012, 20:42   #59
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Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R
Thanks to Good, Bad & Ugly for the long overdue review of Force One vs XUV5OO.
Thanks Skyline. I see from your profile that you work for Force Motors and hope that all the feedback received on this thread will be helpful to the company.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 13:29   #60
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Default Re: Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid: A Comparison between Force One and Mahindra XUV

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Originally Posted by subodh View Post
Force Motors and hope that all the feedback received on this thread will be helpful to the company.
Definately hope so !!

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Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
Good, Bad & Ugly (of varying heights) had any issues with the seat positioning.
Just managed to drive a friends XUV 500 today back again and boy again I have to say , its a OK vehicle with too much gadgets/gizmos inside . The ride quality still needs to be improved . The first thing to notice while going over the bumps / potholes was the ride quality which needs to be improved with better shoes .

IMHO , The tires definately need to be upsized or the suspension needs to be softend . Its way too stiff for a 14 L vehicle .
The vehicle definately had a lot of juice in the engine , but wasn't comfortable enough for the great feeling !!

Didn't you guys on the TD felt the stiffness in the suspension . Especially Satyen(MonaroCV8) who comes from the Tfort segment ??
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