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Old 10th April 2012, 17:18   #46
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
The segment classification mentioned in the link has no real parameters linked to the classification. To me the analogy is more in sales figures. Let's take an example, in the 3rd link - wiki says cruze is in C-segment, whereas in the classification, it is mentioned as D1. To me practically taking the following parameters, Sunny is no way less than the so called C2 segment:

1. Space
2. Features (safety & comfort / convenience)
3. Reliability
4. Look & feel

Yes it is not in the league of 250 NM of Vento or Rapid but quite adequate IMO. One grey area is after sales and thats why the perceived value of Nissan in India.

What actually has happened is Sunny is priced slightly above the Verito, Manza territory and lower the Vento, Verna territory. If price plays crucial in deciding the segment then yes perhaps you are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
Thanks MadMax.
C1/ C2 it does not make a difference to me.
According to me Sunny out performed Vento, Rapid, and Verna in things I was looking for, so I bought the car.
Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroonanand View Post
Well, the Sunny might be classified as C1 here but if you check its features, it offers not what most C2 sedans offer but much more.

To illustrate, even base version of Sunny (XE in Petrol, XL in Diesel) come with Airbags, ABS, EBD none of which are there in the base variants of Vento / Rapid / Linea (dont recall exact specs of Linea but dont recall these features - only Emotion / Emotion pack has these features)

likewise, Sunny XL (mid variant) offers Auto Climate Control (ACC), dual air bags which are not available in the mid variant of the Rapid. Vento did not have a mid variant till now. Even the top variant of the City does not have ACC.

So based on these, I guess it is unfair to classify the Sunny as C1 - none of the other C1 sedans (Etios, Verito, Manza, Dzire) offer all of the below in the same variant

- Dual airbags
- ABS & EBD
- Auto Climate Control
- Rear Vents

So not sure if the classification is based on the price point or features - can someone shed light on this?
+1

I think it will automatically be perceived as C2 as slowly the sale picks up and Nissan increases the price.
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Old 10th April 2012, 17:58   #47
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

The segment classification in US is done based on exterior dimensions(Length*Width), Weight and engine capacity/power output. Features and Price are not part of the equation. I guess it would be the same here as well.

Also, it needs to be noted that the rear a/c vents of the sunny is a blower for re-circulation of the air and not an actual a/c vent.

In my opinion the after TDs of the below vehicles:

A/C of the Vento and Rapid are just average. Same goes for the Verito, Manza, Sunny, DZire, SX4.

Ford Fiesta, City have very decent A/C

Linea, Punto 2012(Note not the old puntos!) and Ford Figos have chiller A/Cs!!!

I personally would have bought the Linea if not for the lethargic performance. It really needs a 1.6 under the hood. Everything else is just perfect. you really dont need a football field inside the car. There should be decent amount of space and rock solid seats with awesome support for those long drives.

Also, my last car was a Tata Vista. no words to express how awesome the car was. Hard to believe it was from the Tata stable until it started spending 3weeks of the 1st month in the service center for numerous complaints quality check at factory should have caught. After that it was all smooth sailing for 3 years and 30,000 Kms. Wouldnt have sold it if I didnt have to relocate. Tata A.S.S has been improving in leaps and bounds during my period of ownership(its about time) but its nowhere close to the Hyundai A.S.S. The Koreans seem to have hit the sweet spot even when it comes to A.S.S even when it comes to their A.S.S for consumer electronics(LG, Samsung).
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Old 11th April 2012, 11:04   #48
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
I think the C1/C2 segment on Team Bhp is due to pricing.
Infinite Loop has a point though. Manza is a fantastic product. If Suzuki/Honda/Nissan made the Manza, I would have considered it too.
I am sure its because of the price point. Nissan is a new player and they could not risk over pricing the car as it needs to develop the brand in India.
If Hyundai had launched verna as a new company I am 100% sure it would have cost lesser than a Sunny.

I never even TD Manza. Thanks to my nightmares with TATA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiestarry View Post
The more I hear about the Sunny ( Nissan not Leone), I wonder what took the Jap Company so long to get their act together. Without any doubt this is a car that this country needs and deserves. I am a conservative man and dont see the point in anyone owning cars that possess excessive power and torque when all that you can do safely on our intercity highways is 120 kph.
Except for the rare blitzes I dont think our disaster ridden highways promote faster driving and for that matter neither do our pothole ridden city roads. Then why this 'Kolaveri ' for more and more BHP and Nm.
The Sunny is a safe and sensible bet. I wish the Honda City would come with a 1.3 MJD and 90 Hp. Should suit the light car to a well done T.
Its an ideal Indian car. Common man car for the typical Indian family.
You right about the 120kph limit, I till date never felt my Santro was under powered on any highway runs and I could always keep up with any car - BMW's and Audi's on a 450km stretch. But power under the hood is something you got to have to know and experience the value of it.
Nissan priced it in a good spot so we feel complete VFM when we drive this machine. Once the figures go higher things will change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroonanand View Post
So not sure if the classification is based on the price point or features - can someone shed light on this?
Sunny sure is filled with all the realistic feature one needs.
Its definitely because of the money it costs, it falls into that segment for discussion sake, but not for its owners/ prospective buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
The segment classification in US is done based on exterior dimensions(Length*Width), Weight and engine capacity/power output. Features and Price are not part of the equation. I guess it would be the same here as well.

I personally would have bought the Linea if not for the lethargic performance. It really needs a 1.6 under the hood. Everything else is just perfect. you really don't need a football field inside the car. There should be decent amount of space and rock solid seats with awesome support for those long drives.

Hard to believe it was from the Tata stable until it started spending 3weeks of the 1st month in the service center for numerous complaints quality check at factory should have caught. After that it was all smooth sailing for 3 years and 30,000 Kms. Tata A.S.S has been improving in leaps and bounds during my period of ownership(its about time) but its nowhere close to the Hyundai A.S.S. The Koreans seem to have hit the sweet spot even when it comes to A.S.S .
I don't know about US but here everything is money, like the typical mileage question Indians are genetically attached to. Everything else is next, engine, size, shape, color. So the grouping to C1.

You are right about the realistic space one should ask for in a basic car and that's what no other car provides according to me.

I was so convinced Indica was an ideal car for India after seeing thousands of Taxi's and went ahead to buy it. Its no match to a Santro on any plane. It runs like a typical TATA truck and can never be tamed for a refined household. And when it started giving problems the damn car mercilessly drained me and still doing its best at it.
Koreans have to step up cause at this point they have sold way more than what they can handle and they are in big soup. Having a tough time to even get a service appoint for my santro. They give you dates 45 days later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDragon View Post
Sunny is no way less than the so called C2 segment:

1. Space
2. Features (safety & comfort / convenience)
3. Reliability
4. Look & feel

Yes it is not in the league of 250 NM of Vento or Rapid but quite adequate IMO. One grey area is after sales and thats why the perceived value of Nissan in India.

What actually has happened is Sunny is priced slightly above the Verito, Manza territory and lower the Vento, Verna territory. If price plays crucial in deciding the segment then yes perhaps you are right.

I think it will automatically be perceived as C2 as slowly the sale picks up and Nissan increases the price.
You are spot on.
The phobia of A.S.S. makes the car less desirable for a typical conservative fellow Indian, so they had to price it lesser.
In my opinion Verna is over priced, thanks to the success we have given them.
I want the sales to gradually increase so they have enough time to adjust and grow in the Indian market and I have more exclusive treatments at the service bay.
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Old 11th April 2012, 11:33   #49
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
The segment classification in US is done based on exterior dimensions(Length*Width), Weight and engine capacity/power output. Features and Price are not part of the equation. I guess it would be the same here as well.
Agreed, but what would be the dividing line between C1/C2?

Either there has to be a clear line for classification (Minimum Engine Size, Minimum Length, whatever) over which C2 starts or the entire matter is pretty much opinion.

Otherwise, one mans overpriced C1 could be another mans discounted D1!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
you really dont need a football field inside the car. There should be decent amount of space and rock solid seats with awesome support for those long drives.
Highly subjective. If space is not important then why would BMW,Audi, Merc had their 5 series, 7 series, A6s, A8s, E Classes and S Classes? A 3 series, C Class, A4 should have been enough for everyone.

Is the space in the Skoda Rapid adequate? Absolutely yes! But more is better.

Cant comment on the "supportiveness" of back seats of the Sunny, but I spent 12 hours+ in the front seat over a 700 km drive over 2 days. No complaints whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
If Hyundai had launched verna as a new company I am 100% sure it would have cost lesser than a Sunny.
Hyundai has been overpricing its cars lately. Ask me ... i bought the i20!

Last edited by AbhiJ : 11th April 2012 at 11:47.
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Old 11th April 2012, 13:52   #50
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Quote:
Hyundai has been overpricing its cars lately. Ask me ... i bought the i20!
Good point. the fluidic i20 is almost in the showrooms and I believe its costlier than the previous gen. I'm sure there will be takers for it still. Did you face the steering rattle problem? I believe its a problem they have not been able to sort out completely till date. A drive on small rough stretch brings the rattle back. Also the A/C does not cool as well as it should for a diesel hatch; they could have plonked a bigger compressor without affecting mileage to some extent in the diesel.

Im sure, hyundai is trying to make back the huge R&D spends by overpricing the product in a market where it would actually sell(india). In the US - its the cheapest new car one can buy.

Maruti generally do not have this over head as most their cars released in India are outgoing models in other parts of the country or if they are "current" models, then it would seriously trimmed down versions.

One shocking discovery I made was that behind the rear bumper of the new swift(When fitting the rear park sensors for a friend) there is nothing but a block of Styrofoam between the bumper and the car. Heck even in my old Santro, there is a horizontal metal beam running from one end of the car to another. Maruti seems to be cutting corners when it comes to safety. Pity the millions of Indians who have only mileage in mind when purchasing it.

Quote:
Highly subjective. If space is not important then why would BMW,Audi, Merc had their 5 series, 7 series, A6s, A8s, E Classes and S Classes? A 3 series, C Class, A4 should have been enough for everyone.
Agree. but the point i was trying to make was space is not everything a car should be judged with. case and point Indigo XL.


Quote:
Cant comment on the "supportiveness" of back seats of the Sunny, but I spent 12 hours+ in the front seat over a 700 km drive over 2 days. No complaints whatsoever.
I agree. the front seats have been well done. Including the seating position and supports.
If you ask me, give the driver lesser options and he will get used to it.
The rapid has height adjust seats plus tilt and telescopic steering, I'm still trying to find my signature position even after a month of purchase. I'ts hard migrating from the high upright seating of the Vista to the Low floor of the Rapid.

Quote:
I never even TD Manza. Thanks to my nightmares with TATA.
This is a good thing. you would have been sold and never thought of anything else and then ended up living with the TATA A.S.S. With the amount of refinement, space, comfort and equipment on offer for the price, I was sooo close to taking the plunge again for a TATA. Im not too much for the looks of the Manza. Its subjective i guess but it looks like a boat from the front to me. and sadly now they have given the same front for the new Vista.
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Old 11th April 2012, 14:35   #51
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
Did you face the steering rattle problem?
Also the A/C does not cool as well as it should for a diesel hatch.
Faced the problem twice. They changed the steering rack one and a couple of bushes later. Its reduced to such a low level you can call it fixed.

The A/c in all i20s is weak. Certain owners feel it. Certain dont. I have learnt to live with it. The compressor is not at fault alone. The blower, and dashboard design are also faulty. I hope the new fluidic version has some upgrades.

Anyway, dont go off topic any further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinteLoop View Post
Agree. but the point i was trying to make was space is not everything a car should be judged with. case and point Indigo XL.
Agreed. But please note that Indigo would have sold 10x if it was made by any japanese company.

I have owned an Indica v2 and have 2 Indica Vistas in close family. I refuse to buy Tata vehicles myself and be treated by Tata as a constant R&D subject.
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Old 12th April 2012, 11:57   #52
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

THE DEALER THE STEALER - JEEVAN NISSAN, MADURAI, TN.

So here I write the booking and delivery experience I had with the dealer.
It was the time when all was set, an advance of Rs1,00,000/- paid, 3 weeks over, the car had arrived on 8/01/2012.
I was so happy the car has landed so in a hurry I start processing my loan to get the car delivered before the holidays falling on 13th, 14th, 15th Jan.


The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL-quote-1a.jpg


I had the quote amount given when the car was booked so it did not take more than 24hrs to get my loan approved by SBI bank.
Mean while I took a PDI at their stock yard.

The sales executive kept calling me on 9th and 10th asking whether I can transfer the money or the cost might increase, but I did not have the money by then.

12th comes and I have the money to transfer, but I get a strange call from the dealer saying the price has gone up as I am getting the car in the first lot and he sends me a different quote.



The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL-quote-2a.jpg

I immediately ask the bank to stop payment and start making some calls.
Contacted Nissan who said no raise in price.
Contacted all showrooms in Chennai who confirmed it.
Then called another sales executive of Jeevan Nissan itself and he was totally unaware of any increase

On confrontation the sales executive says, its the transportation charge which has gone up. I got furious on hearing this but then I could not let the car lie in the stock yard longer.
Before transferring the money I asked him whether he can elaborate on the insurances policy for which he had increased to 32k. He was clueless of what is insurance all about.

Meanwhile I start making direct calls to different insurance companies for quotes for 0% depreciation motor insurance. And no one quoted more than 28k.

It was clear that the dealer wanted to make away good 20k as extra profit from me.

In all this negotiation my option of getting the car out before 13th died.

I escalate the matter and finally got hold of the manager how was equally clueless and had to give me the number of his preferred insurance agent (Bharati axa). When I called the agent without me asking anything the guy says he can give it to me at a premium of 26k. Right there I saved 6k.


The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL-insurance.jpg

Then I ask for a new quote with the insurance cost changed. So now I had 3 quotes for different amounts. I asked the sales execute to give me details on other charges and meanwhile I forwarded all the 3 quotes with different amount to the NISSAN customer care.
I got a call the very next day from Nissan confirming that they have asked the dealership for explanation.

Within 1 hour of that I get another quote from the dealer stating that they can add in extended warranty costing Rs 6999 with no increase in cost.

So I save another 7k. Total saving Rs 13000/-

By then I was so frustrated with the dealer I was to cancel the booking and book in Chennai. I even spoke to couple of dealers, but waiting for another 3 months was not possible for I had come so close.
So I was ok to the fact that the dealer was making away some extra money out of me. Sometimes I feel it is less stressful when we are ignorant.

Finally I agree on the amount of Rs.9,24,518

The detailed quote mentioned

Ex showroom price - Rs. 7,98,000
Road tax - Rs. 79,800
Insurance - - Rs. 26,392
Extended warranty- Rs. 6,999
Registration -
Green tax -
Handling charges - Rs 10,000
Accessories - Rs 3,327

Total = Rs.9,24,518/-


For reference - Initially when I was booking the car I was quoted Rs.9,18,867/- with a possibility of 10k as corporate discount.


Total money cheated = Rs. 10000 appx
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Old 12th April 2012, 12:06   #53
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

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Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
THE DEALER THE STEALER - JEEVAN NISSAN, MADURAI, TN.


So here I write the booking and delivery experience I had with the dealer.
Total money cheated = Rs. 10000 appx
Wow, that is one experience you had with the dealer. High time Nissan does a revisit of their dealers if they want to make an impact as a powerful and customer-centric brand (no doubt their cars are). I had a terrible experience with Sherif Nissan in Chennai and had to cancel and rebook with Jain Jubilant Nissan who were extremely pleasing. Have heard good stories about Shahwar Nissan in Bangalore too... So there appears to be a big difference in customer experience amongst dealers !

Good to know that Nissan did act promptly after you mailed / wrote to them about what the dealer is upto.
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Old 12th April 2012, 12:29   #54
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Scary experience Visaster.

There is only one Nissan dealer here in Kolkata but fortunately all their dealings with me were fair and clear.

I was given a quote which they stuck to and had no objection in me getting insurance elsewhere.

Documentation and extended warranty documents were provided timely.
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Old 12th April 2012, 13:41   #55
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Hey I think there is some problem in the Insurance quote you have attached above. How can the IDV be Rs. 8,74,000? You bought the XL model right? The IDV is at best 95% of the Ex-showroom price as far as I know.

Your experience with the dealer is pathetic. Things can never improve in this country. I think you should have blasted them in there showroom so that some potential customers know of whats going on and made sure that they honoured the first commitment that they made and infact add the extended warranty for free for all the mental torture they caused you.
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Old 12th April 2012, 13:53   #56
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

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Hey I think there is some problem in the Insurance quote you have attached above. How can the IDV be Rs. 8,74,000? You bought the XL model right? The IDV is at best 95% of the Ex-showroom price as far as I know.
You have a keen eye...

I think he paid the IDV for XV instead of XL
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Old 12th April 2012, 14:17   #57
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

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I think he paid the IDV for XV instead of XL
But isn't that outright Fraud? The funny thing is if that mentioned on his policy and incase he puts a claim for total loss ( just hypothetically speaking) then he might get more money than he paid for the car.

But jokes apart if that true then you should contact your insurance company and make them correct the amount and also in the process decrease your premium amount. They should ideally credit the extra amount towards your next premium.
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Old 12th April 2012, 15:03   #58
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

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Originally Posted by aroonanand View Post
Wow, that is one experience you had with the dealer. High time Nissan does a revisit of their dealers if they want to make an impact as a powerful and customer-centric brand (no doubt their cars are). I had a terrible experience with Sherif Nissan in Chennai and had to cancel and rebook with Jain Jubilant Nissan who were extremely pleasing.
Good to know that Nissan did act promptly after you mailed / wrote to them about what the dealer is upto.
The very day I was in the showroom for PDI, there was an inspection going on by officials from Nissan company.
I have still not received my extended warranty which the dealer acted as though they were giving it free. I re-sent a mail this morning requesting for the same.
To my suprise as soon as I sent a mail to Nissan I got an SMS on my phone. Don't know how that happened.
The SMS read:
"Thanks for contacting Nissan customer care. Your reference no. for the interaction today is xxxxxxxx. You would be contacted shortly. Happy motoring. "

Nissan is doing its best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
Scary experience Visaster.

There is only one Nissan dealer here in Kolkata but fortunately all their dealings with me were fair and clear.

I was given a quote which they stuck to and had no objection in me getting insurance elsewhere.

Documentation and extended warranty documents were provided timely.
I was not let to get my own insurance. And no document was provided at the right time.
As i had complained before the buy, it was mandatory for the dealer to get a satisfaction note out of me. As all was done and I was in a happy mood to get the car delivered I signed saying satisfied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Hey I think there is some problem in the Insurance quote you have attached above. How can the IDV be Rs. 8,74,000? You bought the XL model right? The IDV is at best 95% of the Ex-showroom price as far as I know.

Your experience with the dealer is pathetic. Things can never improve in this country. I think you should have blasted them in there showroom so that some potential customers know of whats going on and made sure that they honoured the first commitment that they made and infact add the extended warranty for free for all the mental torture they caused you.
Yeah I know IDV was quoted high but then this agent said he can include even the road tax paid.
I am really amazed at how they arrive at different figures for the same vehicle. And to what level people have taken negotiation to, in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
But isn't that outright Fraud? The funny thing is if that mentioned on his policy and incase he puts a claim for total loss ( just hypothetically speaking) then he might get more money than he paid for the car.

But jokes apart if that true then you should contact your insurance company and make them correct the amount and also in the process decrease your premium amount. They should ideally credit the extra amount towards your next premium.
I will look at the insurance certificate and post what the final IDV they insured the car for. But the premium remained the same. Don't really know what these insurance agents are up to.
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Old 12th April 2012, 15:44   #59
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

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Originally Posted by Visaster View Post
Yeah I know IDV was quoted high but then this agent said he can include even the road tax paid.

I will look at the insurance certificate and post what the final IDV they insured the car for. But the premium remained the same. Don't really know what these insurance agents are up to.
You can actually be insured for the OTR price. But that does not mean your IDV would be more than the ex-showroom price of the car. For instance Tata Aig has got many packs going on which you can add to your basic insurance. I got this done while buying the Insurance for my Altis last year and a very good working example of the same was shared by Senior BHPian Sam Kapasi in one of his threads when he claimed insurance for his Skoda Superb. Now in Tata Aig you can add different options to your basic premium which entitle you to following benefits:
1. Key replacment
2. NCB protection in case of claim
3. Full OTR price returned to you in case of a total loss claim due to an accident or theft. This is what the agent must have been telling you.
4. Hotel accomodation in case you are stuck on a highway
5. Replacement car allowance.

There are many more things in this list and overall it will collectively add around 4-5k approx to your premium. You can choose selective options too if you wish to.
I am sure something similar must be offered by other insurance companies too.

Do check your Cover note properly and probably post the same in the insurance section of the forum. The Gurus there may be able to help you better. As far as I know you can't have an IDV thats more than the Car's showroom price.
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Old 14th April 2012, 09:54   #60
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Default Re: The diesel Caaaaar - My Nissan Sunny XL

Just got off the phone from Jeevan Nissan.
If you all remember I had sent a mail to customer care couple of days back and today the dealer called up to inform my extended warranty will be finally couriered to me.
Cheers to Nissan customer care.
Its been 3 months and takes a mail to customer care to make this dealer give me the extended warranty.
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