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Old 3rd July 2013, 13:18   #166
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Gurgaon to Jodhpur - 29th June to 3rd July, 2013

Had to urgently go to Jodhpur on Friday the 28th, June 2013 on family matter. Returned last night.

Total distance to & fro covered: 1417.6 kms.

Mileage with AC on including one hour nap while going near Bandikui - 12.48 kmpl.

Average speed maintained: 95 + kmph. TB II ran like a dream and without a hiccup.

Left Gurgaon at 2:40 am on Saturday morning and reached Jodhpur at my hotel at 1300 hrs (includes a one hour nap at Bandikui). Left from Jodhpur yesterday at 1300 hrs and battling very heavy rains enroute from Ajmer onwards till Jaipur, reached home at 0100 hrs. 12 hours of non-stop driving literally with a few pit-stops and one dinner halt at Dharuhera.

Route taken: Gurgaon - Bhiwadi - Tijara - Alwar by-pass - Sikandra - NH 11 - Jaipur - Dudu - Kishangarh - Ajmer - Beawar - Bar - Jodhpur (NH 112) and back by the same route.

While returning back, near Malakheda (SH 25) a truck knocked off three people on a bike out of which two died on the spot. The villagers blocked the highway. By the time the police came and restored order, I had lost more than 40 minutes.

Road conditions - very good to excellent.

This was the RPM & speed that I managed to maintain most of the time:

The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4-speedo.jpg
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Old 4th July 2013, 12:06   #167
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

In continuation of the above post

Toll charges paid in total - (one way):

1. Kherki Daula on NH8 (Manesar Toll): Rs. 27/-
2. Bhiwadi to Alwar (RIDCOR Megahighway 163 kms): Rs. 55/-
3. Alwar to Sikandra (RIDCOR): Rs. 50/-
4. NH11 (Sikandra-Rajadhok): Rs.55/-
5. NH11 (Rajadhok-Jaipur): Rs.55/-
6. NH8 (GVK Jaipur-Kishangarh-Ajmer-Beawar): Rs.90/-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: Rs. 332/-

** Can somebody tell the one-way toll from Gurgaon to Jodhpur on NH8?
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Old 30th August 2013, 09:51   #168
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

GD saab, curious about one thing. Since the LX doesn't come with PW controls on the doors, do you have any plans on adding them on the rear doors? Considering you have access to a good elec (who got you the power mirrors!). Just wondering what could be the complication, motors and wirings must already be there.

Last edited by Dry Ice : 30th August 2013 at 09:58. Reason: typo
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Old 8th November 2013, 13:20   #169
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Sorry for replying so very late to this. Hadn't visited this thread for long..

No, I've no intention to add separate PW controls on the rear door of my LX.

While I don't anticipate any complications since, as you said, the motors & wiring are in place, the need did not rise for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post

GD saab, curious about one thing. Since the LX doesn't come with PW controls on the doors, do you have any plans on adding them on the rear doors? Considering you have access to a good elec (who got you the power mirrors!). Just wondering what could be the complication, motors and wirings must already be there.
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Old 8th November 2013, 13:29   #170
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

I don't know how missed on updating my service schedule here..

19th July, 2013

TB II clocked 34967 kms on the odo yesterday and was due for its 35k Kms service. I called up SA Ravinder yesterday noon and booked the truck at Sterling Gurgaon for today. I was asked to come in by 08:45 am and made it by 9. Being a week-day, there were hardly any vehicles and immediately Ravinder came with the job card and noted down all my concerns. The 35k kms service was a routine job except that diesel filter was to be replaced. I insisted on Air filter replacement as usual. I also had issues with the gearbox mount.

Wheeled in at 9, job-card at 9:05, TD at 9:07 & finish by 9:20, in the bay at 9:30 & out at 12.

I did not go to the lounge and instead remained with TB II. The truck was raised on the lift and the mechanic immediately started checking the underbelly closely and periodically tightened some nut & bolts. The gear box mount was removed & replaced. I detected a slight leakage on the power-steering pipe and it was replaced. Power-steering oil filled and air removed. The air-filter removed & replaced. Routine service work started. By 11:30 TB II was ready to move out of the bay as I had refused washing. In the meanwhile billing process had started. TB II came out and we again went for a TD. Everything was fine. Settled the bill and moved out by 12:00 pm.

Went straight to my FNG Rakesh. Wanted to get the oil & oil filter changed, vehicle washing & greasing. Had carried my stock of Caltex oil. Oil & oil-filter changed, propellor shaft greased and washing done.

After that went to Deepak Kataria (Star Wheels) a few meters away and got the Wheel Balancing, Alignment & Rotation done. Reached office by 4:10 pm. A very satisfying experience.

The damages:

1. Foam Air Cleaner*** Rs. 496.70
2. Fuel Filter******** Rs. 1309.89
3. Power Steering oil** Rs. 337.58 (1 ltrs)
4. Paid Service****** Rs. 2000.00
5. Various taxes***** Rs. 528.58
------------------------------------------------
Total************* Rs. 4672.75

Wheel Alignment etc.****** Rs. 500.00
Oil Filter**************** Rs. 150.00
Washing, Greasing & Labour**Rs. 750.00
------------------------------------------------
Grand Total**************Rs. 6073.00
------------------------------------------------

Happy Bull, Happy Owner.
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Old 8th November 2013, 13:50   #171
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

5th November, 2013 - 40557 Kms

TB II had clocked 40000 kms on the odo on 25th October and was due for its 40k Kms service.

The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4-40k.jpg

Due to the various festivals and other commitments was not able to find time and miles kept on adding.

I called up SA Ravinder on 4th and he informed me that due to Vishwakarma the workshop was closed but asked me to get the truck at Sterling Gurgaon on 5th between 8:30 & 9 am. I made it by 9. Being a week-day and the spirit of the festivities yet to subside, there were hardly any vehicles and the staff too was depleted.

Shockingly, Ravinder had reported sick and a jittery me was not comfortable in dealing with a new SA.

I had some issues with the truck and a few days back had asked my friend Roshun to take a TD to confirm my fears.

Fortunately Anil the senior-most TDriver was present at Sterling and I asked him to inspect. After an exhaustive test drive the following faults were diagnosed and a test report made:

1. Vibration in the steering wheel
2. Rear suspension bushes to be checked thoroughly
3. Front suspension to be inspected thoroughly.
4. Cross to be inspected in the propellor shaft.
5. Low pick-up - Mass Air filter sensor to be chemically cleaned

A new SA Malkeet Singh came with the job card and noted down all my concerns. The 40k kms service was a routine job except that all fluids were to be changed. I insisted on Air filter replacement as usual.

Wheeled in at 9.10, TD at 9:07, job-card at 9:20, in the bay at 9:40 & out at 3:10 pm.

I did not go to the lounge and instead remained with TB II. The truck was raised on the lift and the mechanic immediately started checking the underbelly closely and periodically tightened some nut & bolts. The left ball-joint was damaged and so were the mounting bushes of the front shockers.

Damaged Lower Ball-joint

The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4-photo1.jpg

Damaged lower arm bush of Shock-absorber

The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4-photo2.jpg

These were to be replaced under warranty but I also insisted on the right ball-joint to be replaced. First the mechanic said that it was allright and no need to replace, but I said if one ball-joint is replaced then as a rule the other should also be replaced.

The Service manager appeared and a serious discussion ensued between us. While he agreed that the pair is to be replaced as a rule, but only one ball joint would be covered under warranty.

I said I know that and am willing to pay for the other. Phew...settlement reached.

The air-filter removed, replaced & the MAF sensor chemically cleaned. Coolant drained from the engine block, high pressure air pumped in to remove any residue (there was none) and fresh coolant poured in. GB oil, Engine oil, Oil Filter, Diff oil (front & back), Brake oil & Clutch oil replaced.

Since the diesel filter was replaced at 35k, it was not changed. Brakes inspected and both the pads & shoes were in good condition, cleaned. Then the work on the suspension started. By 1:30 they had almost completed and only the new RHS shocker was to be installed. LUNCH TIME.

Work resumed at 2:40. Everything finished, checked & re-checked. Anil & I went again for an exhaustive TD. All the issues were solved. The funny "dhadak, dhatak" sound that used to come everytime I went over a crater or a speed-breaker had vanished. A tap on the accelerator made TB II go like a jack-rabbit with a fox in hot pursuit. In the meanwhile billing process had started. Settled the bill and moved out by 3:10 pm.

Went straight to my FNG Rakesh. Propellor shaft greased and washing done.

After that went to Deepak Kataria (Star Wheels) a few meters away and got the Wheel Balancing, Alignment & Rotation done. Reached home by 6:00 pm.

A very satisfying, hungry & thirsty experience. I had not had a morsel since morning, was standing throughout on the garage floor and occasionally sat on the wheel for sometime.

The damages:
1. Foam Air Cleaner********* Rs. 496.70
2. Hose EGR cooler** Rs. 129.23
3. Foam Air Cleaner** Rs. 496.70
4. Lower Ball-joint***** Rs. 610.99
5. Oil Filter************ Rs. 162.64
6. Coolant (6 ltrs)**** Rs. 1044.42
7. Engine oil (6 ltrs)* Rs. 1524.52
8. Castrol DOT4***** Rs. 219.78
9. Maxxi Elite******* Rs. 589.89
10. Maxxi Syntec** Rs. 645.28
11. Consummables* Rs. 628.10
12. Clutch & brake oil change** Rs.750.00
13. Labour********** Rs. 450.00
14. Paid Service*** Rs. 2000.00
------------------------------------------------
Total**************** Rs. 10441.00 (also includes various taxes)

Wheel Alignment etc.** Rs. 500.00
Washing, Greasing******Rs. 300.00
------------------------------------------------
Grand Total*********** Rs. 11241.00
------------------------------------------------

Very Happy Bull, Not too Happy Owner.

p.s. At half the cost of Rs.10441/- I would have got the above jobs done at my FNG. Biding my time. Another 10K Kms to go. Not taking the extended warranty. And then it will be back to Rakesh. Sterling charged 750 for clutch & brake oil change. At FNG they would've bled the clutch system from the slave cylinder. Here they siphoned off the old oil...blaah.
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:48   #172
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

A minor update:

After the recent service, including the cleaning of MAF, I topped up TB II's tank to check the mileage. The run also included a trip to Sariska & back on 10th. AC wasn't used at all.

I got an excellent mileage of 14.43 kmpl.

663.4 Kms in 45.95 ltrs.
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Old 15th November 2013, 23:39   #173
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
I got an excellent mileage of 14.43 kmpl.
Now that is yummy fuel efficiency for a 2.2 ltr 2 tonne 4WD SUV.

What speeds did you maintain on the highway?
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Old 16th November 2013, 18:43   #174
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

GD1418, I've gone through this thread page by page and it makes a very interesting and informative reading. I am seriously considering a scorpio to replace my almost 4 yr old Manza QJD. I can't go beyond the SLE but the LX 4x4 has got me drooling already. I'll be glad if you could clarify:

1. Is the turning radius of the LX 4x4 any less than that of the regular LX? If yes, by how much?

2. I read elsewhere the the all new Scorpio W105 is round the corner. Can you possibly find out through your (enviable) list of contacts in sterling/M&M/MSIL when the W105 is expected to roll out? It'll help me decide whether to wait or dive in right now. I also hear that the new scorpio will get the 140 bhp version of the m hawk and be lighter as well, wow!

Just the day before I had an opportunity to briefly drive a Scorpio VLX (2yrold 30xxxkm) and a Safari Storm (1yr plus20xxxkm) both heavily abused with torn footmats dusty interiors etc. One chukker in each told me why the Scorpio outsells the Safari five times over. The scorpio was much easier to drive, the clutch was still pretty light and the vehicle felt so much more responsive. The storm on the other hand, felt stiff and cumbersome with a clutch as well as power steering that had become excessively hard. The scorpio, in short, had aged so gracefully.

I also do the Delhi Jodhpur circuit often in my manza and the mileage of 14+ which you reported is much lower than the 17+ i normally get with AC. Good going indeed.

Last edited by Eddy : 16th November 2013 at 18:44. Reason: Improved readability
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Old 17th November 2013, 00:19   #175
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

In the city, I generally drive at a sedate speed of 60-70 and occassionally crossing 80+ if I get an empty stretch. On the highway the speed averages to 100, as at times I touch 130kmph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post

Now that is yummy fuel efficiency for a 2.2 ltr 2 tonne 4WD SUV.

What speeds did you maintain on the highway?
@windiesel: let me try to answer your queries point-by-point



Quote:
GD1418, I've gone through this thread page by page and it makes a very interesting and informative reading. I am seriously considering a scorpio to replace my almost 4 yr old Manza QJD. I can't go beyond the SLE but the LX 4x4 has got me drooling already. I'll be glad if you could clarify:

1. Is the turning radius of the LX 4x4 any less than that of the regular LX? If yes, by how much?
I also have a 2004 GLx and it is not a 4x4. I did not find any difference in the turning radius of both.
Quote:
2. I read elsewhere the the all new Scorpio W105 is round the corner. Can you possibly find out through your (enviable) list of contacts in sterling/M&M/MSIL when the W105 is expected to roll out? It'll help me decide whether to wait or dive in right now. I also hear that the new scorpio will get the 140 bhp version of the m hawk and be lighter as well, wow!
Rumours are flying fast & furious. According to M&M ASC personnel, this is to roll-out sometime in 2014. Some reliable sources say not before 2015. What I hear is that they have still been unable to get the gear-box issues sorted out for 140 bhp. The XUV GB is way too long to be installed in the Scorpio. If I were you, then would wait at least for a year from the date of introduction of a new model.

Quote:
Just the day before I had an opportunity to briefly drive a Scorpio VLX (2yrold 30xxxkm) and a Safari Storm (1yr plus20xxxkm) both heavily abused with torn footmats dusty interiors etc. One chukker in each told me why the Scorpio outsells the Safari five times over. The scorpio was much easier to drive, the clutch was still pretty light and the vehicle felt so much more responsive. The storm on the other hand, felt stiff and cumbersome with a clutch as well as power steering that had become excessively hard. The scorpio, in short, had aged so gracefully.
Ahh.. the riding comfort of a Safari/Storme on long distances beats that of a Scorpio by a mile

Quote:
I also do the Delhi Jodhpur circuit often in my manza and the mileage of 14+ which you reported is much lower than the 17+ i normally get with AC. Good going indeed.
You can't be comparing Apples & Oranges...

Last edited by Eddy : 17th November 2013 at 10:57. Reason: Please use the multiquote option. Thanks
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Old 17th November 2013, 10:31   #176
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

I also do the Delhi Jodhpur circuit often in my manza and the mileage of 14+ which you reported is NOT much lower than the 17+ i normally get with AC. Good going indeed.

You can't be comparing Apples & Oranges...


GD1418 thanks for your pertinent inputs. Due to oversight the 'NOT' was missing in my original post...... this is what I actually meant!

Re the W105, perhaps things will become clearer after the Auto Expo. Cheerio!
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Old 12th December 2013, 19:13   #177
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
A minor update:

After the recent service, including the cleaning of MAF, I topped up TB II's tank to check the mileage. The run also included a trip to Sariska & back on 10th. AC wasn't used at all.

I got an excellent mileage of 14.43 kmpl.

663.4 Kms in 45.95 ltrs.
GD Saab, may I ask you what has been your experience after upsizing your tyres to 255 Yoko GLs +alloys? Elsewhere I have read people advising deadly against upsizing, it fouls with the coils springs etc. so lets hear from the horses mouth. Also, can you tell us the cost difefrential involved in the bargain. Your alloys look absolutely smashing, tell me, can the steel wheels take the rough and tumble of offroading or alloys are a must?
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Old 14th December 2013, 12:49   #178
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by windiesel View Post
GD Saab, may I ask you what has been your experience after upsizing your tyres to 255 Yoko GLs +alloys? Also, can you tell us the cost difefrential involved in the bargain.can the steel wheels take the rough and tumble of offroading or alloys are a must?
Let me pitch in till GD comes here.

I have been using the same tires (Geolandars 255) for the past 12k kms on Hariya (Scorpio CRDe) with OEM steel wheels and 11k kms out of the 12k have been on highways (Read Bangalore-Delhi-Bangalore). They have gone to the worst possible roads in the country (Ask anyone about the Nagpur-Lakhnadon) multiple times and have traveled to Himachal Pradesh once.

The tires are simply wonderful. I have had no sidewall, suspension, or steering issues with them, AND, get this, their alignment wore out after 10k kms of usage over all kinds of roads and no roads.

The standard 235 size tires cost around 7.5k INR as on date and the 255 size cost around 10k INR.

Further, steel rims can easily take the pressures of offroad as can alloys.

One last point. As long as your alloys are the OEM size and not offset, these tires will not pose any issues.
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Old 14th December 2013, 13:41   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Let me pitch in till GD comes here.

I have been using the same tires (Geolandars 255) for the past 12k kms on Hariya (Scorpio CRDe) with OEM steel wheels and 11k kms out of the 12k have been on highways (Read Bangalore-Delhi-Bangalore). They have gone to the worst possible roads in the country (Ask anyone about the Nagpur-Lakhnadon) multiple times and have traveled to Himachal Pradesh once.

The tires are simply wonderful. I have had no sidewall, suspension, or steering issues with them, AND, get this, their alignment wore out after 10k kms of usage over all kinds of roads and no roads.

The standard 235 size tires cost around 7.5k INR as on date and the 255 size cost around 10k INR.

Further, steel rims can easily take the pressures of offroad as can alloys.

One last point. As long as your alloys are the OEM size and not offset, these tires will not pose any issues.
Thanks Devdath, now that the Scorpio bug has bitten me, I've been through your 'Hariya with a tail ' thread (1100Ds Marengo thread, as well). I think all LX 4x4s come with desi AT tyres and (silver) steel rims. Nice to know that steel wheels are also tough enough, GDs alloys look wonderful, though. I'll take yours and 1100Ds advise how to go about installing the MLD when the actual buying time comes. Hopefully the W105 wll be launched soon after the Auto Expo in Feb.
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Old 16th December 2013, 14:28   #180
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Default Re: The Bull II (TB II) - M&M MHawk Scorpio LX 4x4

Though Devdath has answered most on my behalf, let me also try. My older Scorpio GLx came with OEM alloys and were shod with BS Dueller H/T standard size. After I wore them out at 75K, I shod it again with BS Dueller A/T one size oversize - 10.5 x 31. It gave the look of a 16" wheel, raised the height of a the car a bit and had excellent road-grip. These tyres lasted me almost 80K kms.

When the time came to change, I opted for the Yoko Geo AT-S on the advice of my fried Deepak Kataria who owns Star Wheels in Gurgaon. This was one size oversize too. Now I don't like tyres protruding out of the vehicle body. It looks grotesque. One size oversize doesn't protrude outside and looks OEM.

The Yokos have soft rubber thus reducing the NVH considerably and provide good braking and road-grip. Based on this experience and that of my friends who had put similar tyres on their Scorpio, I went for these tyres for my TB II as soon as I took the delivery. I don't remember the cost difference that I paid then for giving Deepak back the Apollo tyres that came with the car.

Going one-size oversize doesn't impact your suspension system, provided either you have OEM alloys or have corrected the offset of the aftermarket alloys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windiesel View Post

GD Saab, may I ask you what has been your experience after upsizing your tyres to 255 Yoko GLs +alloys? Elsewhere I have read people advising deadly against upsizing, it fouls with the coils springs etc. so lets hear from the horses mouth.

Also, can you tell us the cost difefrential involved in the bargain.
Thank you for liking the alloys. I'm a bit surprised or rather amused at your query.

In the good old days, when the alloys were unheard, OTRs were being done with steel rims only. Even today the army vehicles located in the front areas, that almost everyday do an OTR, have only steel rims on their vehicles.

True the alloys are tough & light and can take everything, but so can the steel rims. Alloys are not a must for OTRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windiesel View Post

Your alloys look absolutely smashing, tell me, can the steel wheels take the rough and tumble of offroading or alloys are a must?
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