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Old 19th October 2012, 21:31   #991
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Isn't Tata repeating the mistake made with the Indica Vista again on the Storme?

- The problem with Indica Vista is that although its actually a new platform, its been designed to look like the older Indica for 'family resemblance' or whatever misguided marketing mantra. And that's a major negative against it.

The Storme although having new underpinnings and a partially revised front face with a new rear-end has the same all-important silhouette. Not so sure whether this will not go against customer perception - to the uninitiated, it looks just like the old Safari with few cosmetic changes.

Who are the marketing and design blokes at Tata? How come they appear to make it a habit not to learn from their mistakes?
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Old 19th October 2012, 21:33   #992
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
So while we rave about the improvements vis a vis the price, i think, tata should kill the existing Safari and launch the new Storme 25k cheaper than the Scorpio across all variants. That, in my opinion will be their USP. (Improved technology at a cheaper price point)
-
-
they ought to stop thinking that they are selling a premium product, simply because, the Storme is no longer a premium product in the suv space.
I serious disagree with this comment. I cannot label Storme's pricing as premium. In my view it is quite decent. While what you are proposing in terms of price cuts is most welcome, at the same time it is unrealistic.

If we start looking at things with such a cynical attitude 90% of all products in the market are premium priced. Take the example of the best seller : Innova. At 13 lacs on road what do you get: one airbag, abs, rear demister + wiper and a puny engine?..thats all...and in the name of reliability - a known issue with the fuel pump. Which when warranty expires costs 80k to repair!

The problem with Storme is just that it's improvements are skin deep and not instantly visible to a society increasingly fed on 'all that glitters is only gold' attitude.

Last edited by rrsteer : 19th October 2012 at 21:36.
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Old 19th October 2012, 21:33   #993
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravdgr8 View Post
No offences meant to anyone, however we cannot compare Safari to the Duster. Duster'e engine is puny when compared to the Safari and the top end 110 BHP duster
Safari engine has 700 cc more than the Duster engine, but Duster makes up for it by being almost 700 kgs lighter. End of the day, even with a smaller engine it will give similar or better peformance to the Storme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravdgr8 View Post
Moreover, Duster is an SUV, but not a full fledged SUV. Where's the 4*4?
True, Duster is not a true body on frame 4x4 like the Storme, but majority of buyers don't care about 4x4. Besides the 4x4, you are getting a much more internationally proven product in the Duster.
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Old 19th October 2012, 23:04   #994
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Take the example of the best seller : Innova. At 13 lacs on road what do you get: one airbag, abs, rear demister + wiper and a puny engine?..thats all...and in the name of reliability - a known issue with the fuel pump. Which when warranty expires costs 80k to repair!

The problem with Storme is just that it's improvements are skin deep and not instantly visible to a society increasingly fed on 'all that glitters is only gold' attitude.
Firstly, Innova is a MUV and not a suv. Yet it goes most places where u can take a 2wd suv.
I wont compare an Innova with a Safari, but since u want to know what Toyota gives you for 13 lakhs in the Innova, then here is my take:

1. Absolute reliability and peace of mind that any Tata vehicle cannot touch, with even a bargepole.
2. Less trips to the A.S.S. And by less trips, I mean a lot less trips compared to most Safari owners. There may be a lucky few who dont have to visit as often, but the general story is quite sad.
3. Ask any tourist operator and they will tell you that, that underpowered Toyota engine can go 3lakhs+kms with ease, whereas the Tata engine needs retrofits and software upgrades and what not.
4. Tata has PATHETIC resale value. Compare it with any Toyata you feel free to choose.
5. Tata service sucks to the core. Though they have a very large dealer network, they actually need it because their vehicles are not built to last like a Toyota.
6. You worry about a known fuel pump issue in the Innova. Ask many Safari owners who worry about their entire vehicle

I drive both Toyota and Tata. It will take Tata another 10 years before they come close to making the kind of quality Toyota makes and sells today.

I rest my case. Im happy you disagree and i agree to disagree
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Old 20th October 2012, 07:59   #995
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Quote:
I drive both Toyota and Tata. It will take Tata another 10 years before they come close to making the kind of quality Toyota makes and sells today.

I rest my case. Im happy you disagree and i agree to disagree
there was no need for such a lengthy post. Any way, till a month back i owned a safari and now replaced it with innova. So i know what is what. My response was on the premium pricing part. Take care and relax .

Last edited by khan_sultan : 20th October 2012 at 10:55. Reason: fixed quotes
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Old 20th October 2012, 08:39   #996
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Safari engine has 700 cc more than the Duster engine, but Duster makes up for it by being almost 700 kgs lighter. End of the day, even with a smaller engine it will give similar or better peformance to the Storme.

True, Duster is not a true body on frame 4x4 like the Storme, but majority of buyers don't care about 4x4. Besides the 4x4, you are getting a much more internationally proven product in the Duster.

Dacia Duster is not an internationally proven product, Sticking a Renault badge doe snot not make it one either.

One your point that the Dacia is lighter and hence has lower power, I agree. It is hlaf the car at the same price.
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Old 20th October 2012, 09:00   #997
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
.. 'family resemblance' or whatever misguided marketing mantra. And that's a major negative against it.
Something to be followed AFTER the reliability & brand is established - established on par or at least close to today's market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
The Storme .. .. has the same all-important silhouette. Not so sure whether this will not go against customer perception - to the uninitiated, it looks just like the old Safari with few cosmetic changes.
Let it have that silhouette. It is required. But what is not required is parts from the older version. I go back to the examples I quoted earlier - Honda-CRV, the Lexus, the MDX'es.. All retained the basic outline, yet were presented with sufficiently new looks.

While the changes & improvements underneath are very important, the current 15 year old design has become too long in the tooth. The 2.2 Dicor had reached the peak of it's stylishness. .. Today, IMO, TML has lost a BIG opportunity to showcase this as a completely Next-Gen Safari.
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Old 20th October 2012, 09:33   #998
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
For all those who say that the Storme has a hydroformed chassis, better steering, better driveability, integrated roof mounted ac, etc - please note that - TML has not done any favours to the customer. All this should have been improved a long time ago while they were busy sleeping.
So while we rave about the improvements vis a vis the price, i think, tata should kill the existing Safari and launch the new Storme 25k cheaper than the Scorpio across all variants. That, in my opinion will be their USP. (Improved technology at a cheaper price point)
Whats the point in trying to place a premium on the Storme and sell a few hundred units a month. if they really want to garner any sales, they ought to stop thinking that they are selling a premium product, simply because, the Storme is no longer a premium product in the suv space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Cant be put any simpler. And even if consider only the Safari, the Storme is like different/new wine in a old bottle. There's not much changes on the outside .. how does one identify with it's new-ness ?

Why couldnt have TML followed the styling patterns of SUV's like the MDX, or Lexus', or even CR-V or RAV4 ? All these have seen regular changes both inside and outside. The looks have changed regularly, in a way that the style is new, while it still retained it's roots. Not like the Storme where the front is quite different, the rear has evolved some, and a mish-mash by retaining the old sides ! If only they had made the front & sides evolve like the rear side, it would have been a different story, at least to a recongnizable extent.
I echo your sentiments and this is what I have been saying on this thread all along and I AM A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER FOR TATA.

Unfortunately there are enough members here who think the pricing is superb for what Tata has given us and rubbish all arguments of the vehicle being overpriced as those coming from "arm chair critics" who "nit pick" and who know "nothing about SUVs."

As a consumer, I want manufacturers to slug it out in the market and give me the best product at the best price. Unfortunately, this is not happening in the SUV market presently. Scorpio, with its better reliability and "all rounder" image has totally taken the SUV market out of Tata selling not less that 5 times as many vehicles as Tata does. It was such a golden opportunity for Tata to have stolen the thunder with the Storme.

The Storme at these pricing levels with unknown reliability ( as yet ) is now PURELY AN EMOTIONAL BUY. Now tell me how many are going to plonk 13 lakhs ( average on road price across variants ) on a Tata with just emotions. If Tata is happy with a few hundred auto enthusiast customers every month - so be it. But if they wanted good volumes, I guess they might be disappointed 6 months from now.

I am still seriously considering the Storme Lx but will wait for
1) some good reviews to come in - including the our very official review
2) reviews from customers in the North in the initial months
3) lauch of the Storme in Chennai to personally check out the vehicle.

Hopefully and Most importantly by then we will have some juicy offers as well

Till then, its going to be another long wait

Last edited by narayan : 20th October 2012 at 09:38.
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Old 20th October 2012, 11:07   #999
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
I echo your sentiments and this is what I have been saying on this thread all along and I AM A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER FOR TATA.
Scorpio, with its better reliability and "all rounder" image has totally taken the SUV market out of Tata selling not less that 5 times as many vehicles as Tata does.
I am still seriously considering the Storme Lx but will wait for
You are saying Mahindra Scoprio is better, Storme is overpriced etc, and bash Safari at least once a day. At the same time, you are say, "you are considering Storme LX". Why this contradiction, Can you please explain?
If Safari is so bad and not a value proposition, why dont you buy the good one from the competitor? Nothing personal, just trying to understand your sentiment.
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Old 20th October 2012, 11:30   #1000
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
I serious disagree with this comment. I cannot label Storme's pricing as premium. In my view it is quite decent. While what you are proposing in terms of price cuts is most welcome, at the same time it is unrealistic.

If we start looking at things with such a cynical attitude 90% of all products in the market are premium priced. Take the example of the best seller : Innova.

The problem with Storme is just that it's improvements are skin deep and not instantly visible to a society increasingly fed on 'all that glitters is only gold' attitude.
I completely agree here and have 1 question for the naysayers. Had the Safari remained the same vehicle beneath the surface but with a completely new design, let's say like a rangie... then, would the price be justified ? It seems so. Afterall, XUV provides little in addition to Scorpio but a different design and people seem to go gaga over it.

Here Tata have actually made the effort to improve the vehicle from its core and suddenly everyone seems to doubt the intentions. And the Price! I see the whole issue is over the starting price of the vehicle but little do they notice that the price differential in all other variants is marginal.

Taking delhi prices in equation:

LX / Storme LX -> 828137/995000 (166,863) and for that you get:
1. Better Engine Refinement
2. Superior Ride & Handling (By superior, I compare with all vehicles in the segment)
3. ABS / EBD
4. New Gearbox
5. Electrical Remote Fuel Cap Operation
6. Rear Glass Demister
7. Remote Central Locking
8. Height Adjustable Driver Seat
9. Music System with USB / Bluetooth
10. Engine Immobilizer
11. All 4 Disc Brakes - Even Fortuner lacks this basic SUV feature.

Here is the price check with corresponding Mahindra Vehicle (Scorpio SLE: INR 955055/- and it doesn't even have all the features of Storme LX). For that matter, check the prices with corresponding Duster (110PS RxL: INR 10,13,000/-) which is not even in the same league and you will realise that it is not Tata who is ripping people off.

GX / Storme EX -> 1114239/1082866 (-31,373)
I compare with GX because all the features of current GX have been incorporated into Storme EX barring Alloy Wheels which will not cost more than the difference of 30K. I am sure there should not be any issues here.

VX / Storme VX -> 1229598/1240635(11,037)
Once again, Tata has not gone into much differential here too.

Looking into these facts, I seriously doubt that Pricing is spoilsport here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Safari engine has 700 cc more than the Duster engine, but Duster makes up for it by being almost 700 kgs lighter. End of the day, even with a smaller engine it will give similar or better peformance to the Storme.

True, Duster is not a true body on frame 4x4 like the Storme, but majority of buyers don't care about 4x4. Besides the 4x4, you are getting a much more internationally proven product in the Duster.
I can understand that weight to power ratio does come into effect looking into lighter body of Duster but it is still not a full-fledged SUV. I say so as I would say that Alto is not a swift despite being a hatchback. This is one product that doesn't justify its pricing at all. It should have been in the range that Quanto was launched and no more.

Further, Duster has very little international credibility as opposed to the notion. Badged as a Dacia, this vehicle has no reputation in the western markets. Renault badge is borrowed for Indian markets to add the reputation of parent marca. Top Gear once had a show revolving Dacia brand and it was nothing short of hilarious. They even had a show on Indica and that too was embarrassing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Firstly, Innova is a MUV and not a suv. Yet it goes most places where u can take a 2wd suv.
I wont compare an Innova with a Safari, but since u want to know what Toyota gives you for 13 lakhs in the Innova, then here is my take:

1. Absolute reliability and peace of mind that any Tata vehicle cannot touch, with even a bargepole.
2. Less trips to the A.S.S. And by less trips, I mean a lot less trips compared to most Safari owners. There may be a lucky few who dont have to visit as often, but the general story is quite sad.
3. Ask any tourist operator and they will tell you that, that underpowered Toyota engine can go 3lakhs+kms with ease, whereas the Tata engine needs retrofits and software upgrades and what not.
4. Tata has PATHETIC resale value. Compare it with any Toyata you feel free to choose.
5. Tata service sucks to the core. Though they have a very large dealer network, they actually need it because their vehicles are not built to last like a Toyota.
6. You worry about a known fuel pump issue in the Innova. Ask many Safari owners who worry about their entire vehicle

I drive both Toyota and Tata. It will take Tata another 10 years before they come close to making the kind of quality Toyota makes and sells today.

I rest my case. Im happy you disagree and i agree to disagree
The six points you mention all talk about After sales and product reliability, two things everyone already agrees that Tata needs to come out of to make Storme a success but, it still doesn't justify the price tag an MUV like Innova carries.

As for Taxi segment, please bear that you will find hordes of Indicas and Indigos chugging along with odometer topping 3L+ and doing just fine as a bread winner for many families. Would that justify if Indigo was priced at a premium over other sedans?

Also to counter your point, which says that quality costs and should be at a premium. If I agree with you here and also mention that Storme is a better quality product than Safari/Scorpio, It should definitely be okay to charge a premium, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
I echo your sentiments and this is what I have been saying on this thread all along and I AM A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER FOR TATA.

Unfortunately there are enough members here who think the pricing is superb for what Tata has given us and rubbish all arguments of the vehicle being overpriced as those coming from "arm chair critics" who "nit pick" and who know "nothing about SUVs."

As a consumer, I want manufacturers to slug it out in the market and give me the best product at the best price. Unfortunately, this is not happening in the SUV market presently. Scorpio, with its better reliability and "all rounder" image has totally taken the SUV market out of Tata selling not less that 5 times as many vehicles as Tata does. It was such a golden opportunity for Tata to have stolen the thunder with the Storme.

The Storme at these pricing levels with unknown reliability ( as yet ) is now PURELY AN EMOTIONAL BUY. Now tell me how many are going to plonk 13 lakhs ( average on road price across variants ) on a Tata with just emotions. If Tata is happy with a few hundred auto enthusiast customers every month - so be it. But if they wanted good volumes, I guess they might be disappointed 6 months from now.

I am still seriously considering the Storme Lx but will wait for
1) some good reviews to come in - including the our very official review
2) reviews from customers in the North in the initial months
3) lauch of the Storme in Chennai to personally check out the vehicle.

Hopefully and Most importantly by then we will have some juicy offers as well

Till then, its going to be another long wait
Consumerism is a good thing and everyone wants a product that is better than the best at prices that are cheaper than the rest. I too am a potential buyer and would have absolutely loved it had the prices been much lower but at the same time, we can't flog a product just because it is not priced to our liking but conforms to products already in the market. Further, we go and flog this one product only because it comes from stables of Tata and praise all other products which are actually overpriced.

My point here is that compare apple to apple and not apple to oranges.

Also, Tata has actually been providing pioneering efforts in Indian consumerism from time to time and here too, it is win-win for Indian consumerism as we witness that first sub 10L vehicle with safety features like ABS/EBD coming standard across all variants.

Last edited by akhilesh51 : 20th October 2012 at 11:35.
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Old 20th October 2012, 11:41   #1001
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

I am not a big fan of the way new safari has been positioned. It might have new underpinnings, lighter etc. But ask a normal buyer he will say it just a face lift and thats it!

The cheaper Aria LX launched at 9.9 Lacs makes more sense to a buyer.

One side Tata launches the new safari and other side mocks it with the strip down Aria.

Mahindra auto is better when it comes to connecting with masses and doing business. Look at Scorpio (people dont care if its ladder on frame, drives like a boat etc etc) its positioned well and sells well. XUV has everything one can think of. The way Mahindra is progressing the new scorpio will be the one to look forward to.

As for me as a buyer I ended up replacing my Innova Gx with an Innova Vx only reason being reliability with awesome resale. My 2006 Innova which I had bought for 9 odd lacs sold for 5.5 after driving 1.7 lac kms.

But one thing for sure I still admire a Safari on the road may it be any version call it childhood crush.
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Old 20th October 2012, 11:54   #1002
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ACI's video review of Storme.
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Old 20th October 2012, 11:58   #1003
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Don't quite understand why members here think the Safari pricing isn't great. Yes, the average user may not go beyond the similar-to-old aesthetics but aren't members here usually going to dig deeper? ABS, All-Discs, better quality interiors, for just about 10L? Comfort and spacious were always a given anyways. Maybe the single DIN isn't good for some but hey the car would still run just fine! Yes the Storme has the burden of history when it comes to being unreliable but that can't be written off by us without hearing about ownership reviews.

Yes, I like it and would definitely pick up one but even if I were an indifferent prospect, I still see a lot of value.
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Old 20th October 2012, 13:03   #1004
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post
Afterall, XUV provides little in addition to Scorpio but a different design and people seem to go gaga over it.
A little...? XUV is far better than a Scorpio in all terms (save for OTR in 4X4 mode)

It annihilates it.

And I prefer the looks of the Scorpio than the XUV, go figure...

I do not know as to how much good the Storme is over the 2.2 Safari currently on sale. Can comment post a drive and Team BHP's Official Test Drive.

And about pricing? If people vote it with their pockets, it is a success, else it is not. Initial 6 months won't reveal much.

Disclaimer - I do not own or intend to own any Tata or M&M products (at least in the near future)
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Old 20th October 2012, 13:11   #1005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
You are saying Mahindra Scoprio is better, Storme is overpriced etc, and bash Safari at least once a day. At the same time, you are say, "you are considering Storme LX". Why this contradiction, Can you please explain?
If Safari is so bad and not a value proposition, why dont you buy the good one from the competitor? Nothing personal, just trying to understand your sentiment.
"Bashing" - ouch! That hurt. If you see my "ranting" over the days its all to do with pricing and not the product. If TaTa have delivered on what is on paper and as vouched by many members without testing it, I will buy the Lx if heart gets over head as and when I get to see it ( albeit grudgingly because I still say its over priced! )

@akhilesh my friend - when you compare prices pls factor the discounts on the current Safari - else are your sources suggesting a 30+30 offer for the Storme (how I wish ) ?

Last edited by narayan : 20th October 2012 at 13:13.
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