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Old 25th October 2012, 13:46   #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict

True, the main issue with Tata in general has been their lack of commitment to QA/QC. Although the later buyers seem to have faced much less problems, but I noticed that most of the guys who blindly praise safari have done only a few thousand kilometers and not used like Jay or Tanveer have or even I have used my Scorpio for the last 70K kilometers. Majority of the reliable safari's spend weekdays in the some IT office and weekends in forum mall or drive to nandi hills.

Jokes apart, there will definitely be an updated version in a couple of months down the line. I was seeing an advert in the Hindu paper for the new Manza sedan and they are offering nice black leather interiors, double din system with GPS etc. If they can offer these things in their low end hatch and sedan why not offer these in their premium SUV?

Guys after the Storme was unveiled in the Autoshow, there was lot of talk from *so called insiders* that Tata has taken feedback from and updated the product. Can anyone tell me what was done since the vehicle was launch at Auto Expo? What did they do all these months?
Whether they do or not include other features later on is immaterial. And it is also distracting from the point that the only hurdle Tata need to cross is that of reliability. Just because Toyota has a reputation for quality shouldn't allow them to charge a ridiculous premium for an under equipped vehicle. We are just being stupidly dogmatic by fawning at their every offering.

And about the so called insiders and their feedback, why do you think that the Storme was ready for release at the auto-expo? As has been rightly pointed out earlier, Tata never said it will be launched at any time sooner, and I recall it was specifically mentioned that the launch would be around Diwali, so why do you think they should have spent "all these months" doing anything that you wanted them to do?

No one here, including the Safari fans, will ever disagree that Tata has been pathetically lethargic about QC. However that does not mean that we should judge the vehicle before even a test drive, especially when all reviews state that parts quality has improved by miles, along with the critical chassis and suspension updates. I am certainly not a buyer at this time, despite being a safari fan. I will wait not for the official review on TBHP, but for a few initial ownership reports to see if Tata has truly learned or not. If they haven't, we can all mourn and move on to an offering from another brand.

Ps. Silly quips using someone's name do not get any point across except that they poster is being childish. Lets keep this thread relevant.
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:04   #1127
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

When I spoke to the Service Manager of my TATA A$$ when I gave my Grande MKII for service he informed me that they have been asked to set up dedicated teams for Storme and Aria so that the service levels are better than what they are today. I hope this will help in a turnaround of the response levels and quality of repair work for Storme and Aria. But having followed this and other threads I can see that even if they improve their service quality beyond that of others it is going to take a long time for most of us to change our perception.
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:04   #1128
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Have you heard of the Storme V2..?

That will come after TML has sold about 2000 lemons and tested Storme V1 on all the new real life test drivers (new customers)

Then they will add a few retrofits, add a 2 din music system and some more here n there and a small price hike too.

And now that Mr. Slym shady is in the TML drivers seat, you will surely see a limited edition of the already limited selling Safari/storme.. just like he sold Limited edition Sparks and Avos

Before all you Safari lovers start bashing me up, let me clarify - im no Safari basher, I like my ride. But the way TML has proven that it never learns or learns too slowly, its just so "frustratingly - disgustingly - irritating", to see the product you like not being improved the way it should be and even the little bit that is done takes too long and is too late.
Are you sure that after 2000 vehicles, there's going to be refreshed version. Because i don't think Tata's need to do that only for the sake of selling 2000 odd vehicles.
And besides, how much bad publicity will happen if this holds true.
Are you sure that you have credential source?
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:24   #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_delight

Are you sure that after 2000 vehicles, there's going to be refreshed version. Because i don't think Tata's need to do that only for the sake of selling 2000 odd vehicles.
And besides, how much bad publicity will happen if this holds true.
Are you sure that you have credential source?
He was just being sarcastic. Tata does its beta testing on its customers, and the die-hard fans who queued up to buy the product soon after launch, without any discounts, are the ones who bear the brunt of this "policy". People who buy the Storme say a year from now, are likely to get a more reliable car with more features with a fat discount. I've also got a feeling that the first facelift will make the Storme considerably more handsome.
(By the way, contrary to many on this forum, I think Tata has priced the Storme decently, and even the base variant is not bare-bones).
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Old 25th October 2012, 14:46   #1130
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Amit, you cannot really pass of blame to a vendor.
Did I pass the blame ? I clearly wrote TML scared the people by Injector replacement during warrenty (not TVS-Delphi scared people)

It depends on type of agreements TML signed with TVS-Delphi may be instead of signing agreement for replacements under warrenty they should have insisted on setting up of injector cleaning facility in major cities.

Please go back and check my wishlist for Mr. BD repeated again in short for convinence.

1. More reliable tie rods and bushes
2. Service facility for injectors.
3. A timing chain in case they can't source better quality timing kit.

I learned from SA that culprit in case of timing kit retro was the idler bearing surface wear and not belt.

About reliable safaris being IT Park / Mall driven it is not correct entierly.
There are a number of Safaris which don't stall on highways forcing you to hire taxis :-p they
just make noise rattle but allow you to go to T.A.S.S

@nDevdath : Don't know current situation but heard second hand that now TVS-Delphi has service facility also read on Safari thread that Bosch service cleaned one member's injectors in Bangalore.

Last edited by amitk26 : 25th October 2012 at 14:53.
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Old 25th October 2012, 17:08   #1131
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

I don't know if anyone has the same view but since I saw the Storme in person and all the pics on the web, I somehow don't like the 2.2 Dicor front anymore as it suddenly looks too outdated. Happened to see a few rather new 2.2s last few days and they somehow just don't cut it anymore. Of course from the rear, I think the Storme isn't as impactful.

Maybe that's a good design after all, such that a long-time Safari lover somehow doesn't like it in a week of the launch of the Storme!

Anybody else thinks so too?
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Old 25th October 2012, 17:54   #1132
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR View Post
I don't know if anyone has the same view but since I saw the Storme in person and all the pics on the web, I somehow don't like the 2.2 Dicor front anymore as it suddenly looks too outdated. Happened to see a few rather new 2.2s last few days and they somehow just don't cut it anymore. Of course from the rear, I think the Storme isn't as impactful.

Maybe that's a good design after all, such that a long-time Safari lover somehow doesn't like it in a week of the launch of the Storme!

Anybody else thinks so too?
I agree. I saw it in the flesh (actually minus the camo for the first time) a couple of days ago in the T3 terminal in New Delhi. Looks imposing and real nice. But I still feel the "smile" is a bit much!

P.S. I was really worried about the steering hitting the thigh thingy as I am 180 cms tall myself. I do not know what position the chair and steering were set at (the girl was looking really worried at me poking around looking for the adjustment levers), but there was adequate clearance between the steering and my thighs with my feet on the pedals.

The seats and interiors were really nice beige and perforate leather (it was a VX).

The roof AC has vents facing the font as well (why?).

The rear section somehow "felt" smaller. I had to hunch and sit on the jump seat and still my head was touching the roof/back.

The steering is a bit scrawny. Would have preferred something a little more meaty.

Last edited by ebonho : 25th October 2012 at 18:02.
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Old 25th October 2012, 18:27   #1133
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Questions for those who tried/tested the Storme:

1. Has Tata increased or improved the rake adjustment in the new Storme steering. The Safari steering rake adjustment is just a few cms and is a joke.
2. Does the steering still obstruct view of the speedo console. In the Safari it does. You cant see the entire speedo at most steering/seat settings.
3. Still no dead pedal for the driver?
4. What about wind noise at speeds of 100kph+ ? current Safari sounds like a drone unless u have a good music system.
5. Is the middle row/second row seat backrest adjustable or s it still fixed like the current Safari?
6. Has the throw(long travel) on the gear reduced or is it still trucklike of the Safari2.2?
7. Does it still foul with the music system in 1st & 3rd gears?
8. Have they improved the quality of the seatbelt mechanism?
9. Does the ac actually throw air at your feet when u put it in dual mode(top and bottom cooling). In the current Safari, the air throw at the feet is almost nil.
10. Have they improved the quality of the rotary knob for the ac airflow adjustment? The ones in the safari are not good.
11. Has anyone measured the braking improvement(distance) compared to the existing Safari? Im sure its better with 4 discs, but how much better?
12. Does the new Storme require shims for wheel alignment like the Safari?

For the benefit of everyone, please refrain from posting assumptions for the above queries. First hand experience or information will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 25th October 2012, 19:04   #1134
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Jay, having driven the Pre launch version for almost a day, I may just qualify to answer your very relevant questions, my answers are below your questions

1. Has Tata increased or improved the rake adjustment in the new Storme steering. The Safari steering rake adjustment is just a few cms and is a joke.
Ans: The steering is now rack and pinion, no idea of the technical differences but the turning radius is waaay better, not just a few cms.
2. Does the steering still obstruct view of the speedo console. In the Safari it does. You cant see the entire speedo at most steering/seat settings.
Ans: The console is a different ones, I did not have an issue with the speedo vision with my seat setting.
3. Still no dead pedal for the driver?
Ans: No dead pedal yet.
4. What about wind noise at speeds of 100kph+ ? current Safari sounds like a drone unless u have a good music system.
Ans: It was louder in the pre launch vehicle that I drove when compared to my GX, but I have reliable information that it is solved, even though the solution might sound dubious.
5. Is the middle row/second row seat backrest adjustable or s it still fixed like the current Safari?
Ans: Fixed middle row seating
6. Has the throw(long travel) on the gear reduced or is it still trucklike of the Safari2.2?
Ans: Still truck like, Devdath might agree with me, we had talked to the transmission guys about it, but looks like nothing's been done.
7. Does it still foul with the music system in 1st & 3rd gears?
Ans: No, according to the TML guys, this was touted like it was some major achievement on their part.
8. Have they improved the quality of the seatbelt mechanism?
Ans: Not that I know of, but that will only be known after some use and it will be at the expense of new owners.
9. Does the ac actually throw air at your feet when u put it in dual mode(top and bottom cooling). In the current Safari, the air throw at the feet is almost nil.
Ans: HVAC seemed much better, quieter too, but then again I drove it for a very short time to comment firmly.
10. Have they improved the quality of the rotary knob for the ac airflow adjustment? The ones in the safari are not good.
Ans: The knobs are different, not the ones that come off like in our vehicles, but would not say they are of top notch quality.
11. Has anyone measured the braking improvement(distance) compared to the existing Safari? Im sure its better with 4 discs, but how much better?
Ans: Not measured the distance to stop, but the 4 discs do make it feel extremely sure to stop at high speeds.
12. Does the new Storme require shims for wheel alignment like the Safari?
Ans: Don't know.

Hope the answers helped.
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Old 25th October 2012, 19:29   #1135
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
1. Has Tata increased or improved the rake adjustment in the new Storme steering. The Safari steering rake adjustment is just a few cms and is a joke.
Ans: The steering is now rack and pinion, no idea of the technical differences but the turning radius is waaay better, not just a few cms.

4. What about wind noise at speeds of 100kph+ ? current Safari sounds like a drone unless u have a good music system.
Ans: It was louder in the pre launch vehicle that I drove when compared to my GX, but I have reliable information that it is solved, even though the solution might sound dubious.

6. Has the throw(long travel) on the gear reduced or is it still trucklike of the Safari2.2?
Ans: Still truck like, Devdath might agree with me, we had talked to the transmission guys about it, but looks like nothing's been done.
THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

1. I was reffering to the adjustable steering rake, which is negligible in the existing Safari.
4. Can you share what was the "dubious sounding solution" for reducing wind noise?
6. There surely is a solution for reducing the truck-like gear throw. Tata has to replace the engineers who have not been able to find a solution since the Safari was born. That G76(or whatever its called) gearbox has been around in various avatars for a long time.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 25th October 2012 at 19:32.
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Old 25th October 2012, 19:44   #1136
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
I dunno Jay, but remember that sales super hit called the Fortuner?
It makes fortunes only for Toyota, had/has lesser equipment than the Storme for a good 3 years now, and in spite of being overpriced and under equipped, sold/sells like hot cakes. Toyota took 3 or 4 years to launch a Fortuner with a 2DIN music system on a 27 lac INR vehicle. Now, that is long.

To me, the O-N-L-Y drawback of the Storme is its pre mature part failures and reliability, and if it passes the litmus on them, it is a winner.
Toyota can charge a premium because it makes and sells vehicles that are quite capable of outlasting their owners.
The Fortuner costs a bomb here because of all the duties etc. It sells in the Middle East for under 15 lakhs. Open up the competition to fairplay and watch how TML gets wiped out from the auto industry. There is no excuse for not providing quality. if a reliable product can be engineered in Japan and made in thailand then why not in india.
TML should consider setting up their R&D & engineering in Japan since their engineers here cannot reduce the throw on a gearbox even after 15 years.

Reliability is a huge factor in considering a vehicle purchase, especially a vehicle that says - Make your own road!!

What does it take to get where it takes. Not much. But they have to keep at it, non stop improvement. But TML has been caught napping for a long long time. it reflects in their products and sales. Look at their entire suv lineup.
Sumo,Sumo Grande mark II(like the dead Ambassador from HM), Aria, Safari. All sales duds.
A good product priced well would certainly set their sales charts on fire.
TML has no right to charge a premium for any of their products in their current lineup.
There is nothing premium about an unreliable product.
The customer pays a premium by running to the TASS, downtime losses, severe depreciation and poor resale.
The few sales they have is probably due to passionate people with hearts over their head.

Sorry for the long OT post.

Goodluck TML.

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 25th October 2012 at 19:52.
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Old 25th October 2012, 19:48   #1137
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

1. I was reffering to the adjustable steering rake, which is negligible in the existing Safari.
4. Can you share what was the "dubious sounding solution" for reducing wind noise?
6. There surely is a solution for reducing the truck-like gear throw. Tata has to replace the engineers who have not been able to find a solution since the Safari was born. That G76(or whatever its called) gearbox has been around in various avatars for a long time.
Jay, in all honesty I did not check the steering column adjustment, but I would dare to assume that it is the same as in the current Safari, I have never changed it in my vehicle so did not try and do so in the Storme as well.

With regard to the "wind noise" issue, I'd rather not comment as it is just something I've heard and not seen personally and don't really know if the solution is arrived at with the change.
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Old 25th October 2012, 20:24   #1138
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskywalker View Post
Jay, in all honesty I did not check the steering column adjustment, but I would dare to assume that it is the same as in the current Safari, I have never changed it in my vehicle so did not try and do so in the Storme as well.

With regard to the "wind noise" issue, I'd rather not comment as it is just something I've heard and not seen personally and don't really know if the solution is arrived at with the change.
Turning radius is 5.4; isnt that like Innova?
I read in another forum that the sound had decreased.
And gear stick now is shorter (as in length).
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Old 25th October 2012, 20:28   #1139
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The website talks about some Mark II gearbox, did it not improve the gear shift feel/quality ?
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Old 25th October 2012, 20:35   #1140
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Default Re: Tata Safari Storme : Test Drive and Review. More pics: pg 47

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
T

I was laughing when it was mentioned that "Storme" does not like cornering or something in those lines, in auto mags review. i dont think one would want to do any of those kinds of gimmicks with any SUV, and if anyone is keen about cornering then SUV is not the vehicle for them.



Sir trust me you wont be disappointed at all, i still feel Safari is worth in all aspects aswel, just that someone who can afford a Stome can consider that.
I fully agree to what you said above. I too am in love with my Safari, trust me its the best ride to own for that price point, considering Indian conditions.
Regarding auto magazines, I wonder why one of them didn't point out that Safari cant wheelie in any gear, too bad, its a bad SUV. They are fully capable of absurd judgements as proven time and again.
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