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Old 24th December 2014, 10:11   #121
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

With reference to turbo selection, Psycho had written an excellent article on turbo selection. RRP should have got the right turbo in the first place. the R18's internal exhaust manifold can cause some turbulence for a smooth flow. Other than that engine is pretty good (according to Joel). I am thinking 200whp target is very close for this car.
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Old 24th December 2014, 10:54   #122
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
With reference to turbo selection, Psycho had written an excellent article on turbo selection. RRP should have got the right turbo in the first place. the R18's internal exhaust manifold can cause some turbulence for a smooth flow. Other than that engine is pretty good (according to Joel). I am thinking 200whp target is very close for this car.
Yes, RRP's turbo selection was off, and the tuning also was not good, and the car was running quite rich. No harm done, other than a lot of carbon in the head and cylinders which has been cleaned up as we speak. I am hopeful of 200whp after all this as a preliminary run gave 180whp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
I sat in this car after turbo upgrade. Car has decent mid range. Even with sticky 225 tires, it wheel spins! Could not explore top end power due to traffic. Once you have Wideband, you can watch out for lean spots and get it corrected. Part throttle can be a pain.
AFR guage + sensor is with Joel, and will be installed in the next few days. As the car regularly shuttles between Chennai, Hyd and Blr, Joel strongly advised me to install a boost gauge and AFR gauge, to keep an eye on things, especially with the larger turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
Err I'm not really that much of a technical guy. Also I have no idea what lean spots are. Bhuvan took me for a drive in it and I was holding on to my dear life. It was one insane ride in the car for me. Yes it was my first drive in a turbo tuned car and I might be overstating my expression, I just had my cheeks stuck from one ear to the another when I got off the car and I couldn't stop grinning for a bit. Dropping off my car in Jan with Joel. I hear the engine internals are getting upgraded as well, saw the car back at Joel's today. Can't imagine how much more it's going to blow my mind when it's fully done
Glad to have given you a fun ride.
Engine stock internals are being retained, probably go forged for a later stage. The engine head has been opened to clean all the carbon and do some headwork to increase and smoothen the flow. Mild modifications have been made to the intake manifold also. The carbon on the top of the cylinders also has been cleaned, so compression will reduce, which was quite high initially.

I will post a detailed update, with all pictures, dyno plots, Gtech runs in due time. Waiting for all the work to be complete, so please bear with me. Hopefully everything is done and the car is with me to ring in the new year.
Cheers.
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Old 8th January 2015, 18:45   #123
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuvan_prasad View Post
I will post a detailed update, with all pictures, dyno plots, Gtech runs in due time. Waiting for all the work to be complete, so please bear with me. Hopefully everything is done and the car is with me to ring in the new year.
Cheers.

i agree on the RR, they try to push their inventory stock than build a great car.

I am waiting to see the dyno plots and the other updates. Happy driving
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Old 11th January 2015, 09:29   #124
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Default The Performance

The Civic is back.
This post is going to be sort of a teaser, with just the performance stats, while I get all the various pics and details sorted out.
All performance runs were done with a full tank of fuel(regular petrol), jack, spare etc. and me(85 kgs) in the car using my Gtech Pro.

0-100 - 7.1 seconds
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_072703.jpg

0-130 - 11.3 seconds
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_072738.jpg

0-50 - 3.1 seconds
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_072927.jpg

0-60 - 4 seconds
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_072945.jpg

Launching this car is really tricky as it is running a big turbo. So in 1st gear one has to take care that you don't bog it down, don't launch at full boost and get too much wheelspin, have fast reflexes to upshift before it hits the rev limiter as once in boost it revs REALLY fast.

Breaking down the performance.
Launched at around 3000RPM and slowly modulated the accelerator and clutch. Once the engine gets into full boost, the tacho swings like it just got released off a spring.

Hit 50 in 3.1 seconds. Shift into second a little after that and hit 60 in 4 seconds, which is a decent time including the shift.

Now is when the turbo is on full song and you have the revs and gear ratio to play around with.
60km/h to 100 km/h comes in 3 seconds flat , and this is including a shift from 2nd to 3rd as the civic tops out at 93-94Km/h in 2nd.

I went on to hit 130km/h in another 4 seconds from 100km/h and had to brake after that. Progress is still really really fast.

I just did one run, yes, you read that correctly. Got too excited to do another. Did a decent job according to myself, so didn't want to subject the clutch, tyres and driveshafts through another round.
A much more talented driver might be able to break into the 6's, or maybe even I could do the same, with some practice, as today morning was actually just the first time I went into boost in 1st gear after the new turbo.

More to come.

Last edited by bhuvan_prasad : 11th January 2015 at 09:33.
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Old 11th January 2015, 14:02   #125
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Best thread I've read so far on T-BHP! Congrats on the modifications' positive results. Last of all, the car is a quite a looker - Hard to believe it is 8+yo and modded (except for the front grill of course)!! (Personally I prefer sleepers over show-offs, and your car suits the "Sleeper" tag comfortably). THUMBS UP!!
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Old 12th January 2015, 20:19   #126
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

So many of you would be wondering, why did this guy spend more money on an 8 year old car, didn’t this guy like just turbo it 2 years ago? What is the point in ripping out all that was done, and putting something else?

Well, at the back of my mind I wasn’t fully satisfied. I could feel over the 1.75 years that I drove the car around, power had waned down. No, it was not that I got used to the power and hence the feeling, I am fairly sensitive to such changes and I knew something was up, holding the engine back. The knocking had become worse, I was filling up only Speed 97, and the power boost didn’t feel more like 25%. To add to this the AC and idle issue was never fixed, frankly none of them knew how to fix it. I went through countless haltech forums and it seemed not so simple. I tried fixing up a tuning session with RRP, but they were either closed that day, or out at some event. I also knew, that a simple tuning session is not going to fix this. All said and done though, the car was super reliable like a Honda is supposed to be.

Matters got worse once I got my Gtech Pro. The dyno graph plotted by the Gtech(it has a mode where in a gear you floor it from 2000RPM to the redline, and it plots the approximate BHP plot, you enter vehicle weight too) showed that post 5000RPM I was losing power and there wasn’t that much to start with. My 0-100 time of 9.5s was like barely a second faster than a stock Civic, all this on expensive speed 97.

Heard of Joel through Mahesh(Forum ID Kutlee). Read up on all his threads, guy seemed to know his Honda’s. Had a couple of lengthy calls/emails with him, told him the build, how they removed a spacer from the wastegate and reduced boost etc. He said a couple of things which even I totally agreed with:

1.) Turbo seems too small - I had raised this with RRP before the install, but they said you’ll get lot off lag and the GT 20 is good for 200BHP.
2.) Who puts stuff like a spacer in a professionally made Turbosmart wastegate, change the spring if necessary
3.) Dyno graph is bad after 5000 RPM(the original one before they reduced boost in Chennai)
4.) Lot of sharp turns in the plumbing, will change a few parts

So I made up my mind that the turbo has to be changed. Not good to have the GT20 at its max operating potential all the time, lot of heat etc. In an ideal world would have got a GT25 dual ball bearing turbo, but it would have cost a bomb. Joel had a Evo 6’s 16g6 twin scroll turbo for less than half the cost of a GT25, which had been used sparingly, so I decided to go with that. Read up a lot Evo and Subaru forums about this turbo and came away impressed. Also, most of the R18’s abroad run similar sized turbo’s. I have not come across any R18 running a GT20 sized turbo, except RRP builds.

Dropped the car off early November, I knew that this would take time, as he has to dismantle the RRP build, see what hidden gremlin’s are there and proceed accordingly. One of the first shocks on removing the header pipe was tons of carbon. The engine was running really rich, hence higher compression, knocking, loss in power and the relatively poor FE.

I was prepared for a month’s wait as a case. The intercooler RRP put also was quite tiny, and we used the one from the Evo 6. Battery relocation was done, plumbing was carefully crafted and made, while the civics integrated header would not really make full use of the twin scroll design, Joel got a nice header splitting into two made. He told me that with the boost and tune done well, the carbon in the head won’t pose too much of an issue. ECU was another issue. With a standalone ECU like the haltech, the AC, idle etc was always going to be an issue. Joel was very upfront and said, it is too complicated to be done. So we switched to an RD piggyback, the power tune, which manages the ignition timing, fueling and leaves every other thing to the stock ECU to handle.


To be continued.


The powder coated header

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img20141127wa0008.jpg


The huge EVO 6 intercooler

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img20141201wa0005.jpg


Air intake where the battery was. Minimizing bends in the plumbing

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img20141201wa0006.jpg


Battery in the boot

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img20141201wa0007.jpg


Header wrapped + the wastegate - all new plumbing

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20141211_161620.jpg


The huge Evo 6 16g6 Twin scroll turbo

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20141211_161638.jpg




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Last edited by bhuvan_prasad : 12th January 2015 at 20:30.
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Old 12th January 2015, 21:27   #127
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Default

Hello Bhuvan,
I had a lazy day at work and went through a couple of hundred pages on team-bhp's hot threads section and I happened to come across yours. I read through a lot of threads, but nothing stuck to me like this one.

Needless to say, I read the whole thread all the way up to today's post.

The documentation of your 'journey' with the R18 was an absolute joy to read. Also, I'm glad that you stuck to the idea of keeping it a sleeper.

Your experience with RRP might have been a setback but I'm sure Joel will do the R18 justice. I've read extensively on his work on OHC VTECs and I'm sure you have too. Rave reviews, with good reason.

Keep up the good work and the thread updated. I aspire to own an OHC VTEC someday and you are an inspiration for me to keep the dream alive.
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Old 13th January 2015, 11:08   #128
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Powertune seems to be giving best of both worlds. Heard that power tune does not allow increasing the rev limit. But that is minor trade off to live with considering the stock like idle it can provide. Not sure about altitude correction and other compensation. IF these are handled, it is a wonderful ECU.
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Old 13th January 2015, 13:34   #129
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_cherian View Post
Hello Bhuvan,
I had a lazy day at work and went through a couple of hundred pages on team-bhp's hot threads section and I happened to come across yours. I read through a lot of threads, but nothing stuck to me like this one.

Needless to say, I read the whole thread all the way up to today's post.

The documentation of your 'journey' with the R18 was an absolute joy to read. Also, I'm glad that you stuck to the idea of keeping it a sleeper.

Your experience with RRP might have been a setback but I'm sure Joel will do the R18 justice. I've read extensively on his work on OHC VTECs and I'm sure you have too. Rave reviews, with good reason.

Keep up the good work and the thread updated. I aspire to own an OHC VTEC someday and you are an inspiration for me to keep the dream alive.
Thanks so much for the compliments, really glad you enjoyed the thread. Thread is going to be updated frequently. All the best for you city vtec build, whenever it happen .

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlee View Post
Powertune seems to be giving best of both worlds. Heard that power tune does not allow increasing the rev limit. But that is minor trade off to live with considering the stock like idle it can provide. Not sure about altitude correction and other compensation. IF these are handled, it is a wonderful ECU.
Yes, it definitely seems to the best of both world . Car just runs way smoother. The constant heel and toeing I was doing is not at all required. Cold starts, AC, lights all work just like stock.
I don't think it'll compensate for altitude.

Will continue the thread in the evening with more pics.
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Old 13th January 2015, 21:38   #130
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Now, I had planned a holiday to Kabini during the second week of December, so the Civic HAD to be ready for that, since I was flying into Bangalore and driving down.

The day before I left for Kabini, went down to Raceconcepts to collect the car. The car had been dyno'd the night before and peaked at 180whp, for safety and bad fuel, it was turned down to 171whp. But the part throttle mapping was still not fully done and the car was very jerky between between 2-3000 RPM. Boost was coming in only post 3500RPM, after which she was a transformed animal. Joel said he'd fix the car once back from Kabini, and that the drive should give me good time to see what else should be done.

The drive was fine. Went into boost barely 4-5 times, as lot of traffic and it doesn't feel that laggy, decently crisp responses, save for that jerkiness at times between 2-3000RPM. When I got back, I somehow in the back of my mind knew that something was up inside the engine, so I told Joel, take 2 weeks more, dismantle the head, do some basic head and manifold work, and this will give us a chance to check out how bad the carbon deposit is.

They removed the engine from the car and removed the head and manifold. Joel said the manifold design is quite decent, so just made a few mild modifications to even out and increase the flow. On opening the head, there was a lot of carbon, just imagine, I was driving all around South India with so much carbon inside! So all that carbon was cleaned and Joel did some headwork(port matching/polishing etc. I guess) to ensure good flow.

Went to pick up the car on 31st. Some stupid steering relay gone kaput meant we spent half a day figuring out why the horn stopped working and why the check airbag light won't go away. Anyway, the car dyno'd around 190whp, which then was cut down to 182whp. Got much more torque also. The whole jerkiness between 2-3000RPM was also fixed.

Started the next day on 1st January from Bangalore to Hyderabad. On the highway got into boost a couple of times and she just flew. Like Joel said -"Punch throttle and disappear".

Till 3000RPM she behaves like a nice NA car, not laggy, builds up linearly and more than fine for regular driving in the city and even on the highway, but not for urgent progress though, say around 10-15% better than a regular Civic. Step on the throttle post 3000RPM, and be prepared for some serious shove. There is a massive step up in the acceleration and it builds linearly, but it builds so strongly that you really got to have a free road up ahead, or else you're asking for trouble. It is so addictive as right till 6800RPM it keeps building, you feel like redlining it each and every time. Then you realise what dangerous speeds you have reached and back off. Where the previous setup lost power and felt pointless revving past 5000RPM, this is the total opposite.

Once I reached the Hyderabad ORR, I let her loose, since I knew the road all too well, redlined in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and almost in 5th, when better sense prevailed. Trust me, I cannot mention the speeds I reached on this forum, but what shocked me was the ease and time in which I reached those speeds. Very few cars, 530d's etc and higher up will be faster. All the 2 litre diesel German's will be left behind.

I'm sure you guys saw the Gtech numbers in my previous post, this thing has become a demon now. I took my dad for a drive, and when I hit boost in 2nd, his "Woah" at 4000RPM became a "Wooaaaaahhhhhh" by the time I hit 6500RPM.

The car was then driven from Hyderabad to Chennai. I have the AFR gauge now, so she is running slightly rich around 11 is the ratio. Joel is here on the 18th, so will try and fix that. Boost maxes out at around 9.5psi, I have a boost gauge also, so keep an eye on that.

The car is so easy to drive now, behaves just like a stock car. Feels like a nice NA car till 3000RPM and after that, well, I've said quite a bit about that.

A big shout out to Joel and the guys at Raceconcepts for this build, I really really like it, probably what RRP should have done in the first place, but, better late than never.

Pics below - do have a look.


The carbon laden cylinder heads and gasket(which was replaced)
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The intake manifold
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The head
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The head
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Final Setup
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_075738.jpg

Intake - The sctoch tape is around the boost tee
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_075632.jpg

Battery in the boot - neatly done
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_075332.jpg

The Boot
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_075320.jpg

The Front
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150111_0752502.jpg

The interior - can see the two gauges
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-img_20150110_135436.jpg

Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-dsc_0044.jpg

With Dad's City
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-dsc_0034.jpg

With Dad's City
Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds-dsc_00432.jpg

Last edited by bhuvan_prasad : 13th January 2015 at 21:54.
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Old 15th January 2015, 11:26   #131
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

If I may ask, why just 9.5psi? Are you running stock internals?
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Old 15th January 2015, 12:02   #132
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Default re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Yes stock Internals Shrey!
And the car is meant to run on pump gas. I'm really tempted to run 11psi but its meant to go touring and be as reliable as stock. We making nearly 230hp at crank which is already quite a lot. Didnt see the need to push more. If one intends to run Speed 97 or so, then no issues, I'm all game
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Old 15th January 2015, 12:15   #133
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Default Re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Yes stock Internals Shrey!
And the car is meant to run on pump gas. I'm really tempted to run 11psi but its meant to go touring and be as reliable as stock. We making nearly 230hp at crank which is already quite a lot. Didnt see the need to push more. If one intends to run Speed 97 or so, then no issues, I'm all game
I agree with you 100%. With the adulterated fuel that we get! It is better to be safe than to be sorry!

Atleast now the OP can drive to wherever he wants without the headache of looking out for high octane fuel!

Cheers!
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Old 15th January 2015, 12:36   #134
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Default Re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Exactly shrey. A street car has to be a practical street car in every sense with 100% peace of mind. Silent, stock like idle, functional comforts, AC, no idle hunting, no cold start miseries, silent cabin and running on locally available pump gas.
We tested the car extensively before delivering the car to ensure its reliability, tune and driveability. Lots of dyno time and road tuning went in.
Prior to the build, the car had severe knocking and was running on speed 97 to avoid. Yet it remained.
Now, knocks are history!
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Old 15th January 2015, 15:54   #135
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Default Re: Turbocharged R18 Honda Civic. EDIT: Upgraded Turbo, 0-100 in 7.1 seconds

Hi Bhuvan,

I just read this whole thread in one go. What a rush just reading about it! I hope you have a lot of happy miles and smiles with this gorgeous beauty. You definitely deserve them

Also, a brilliant job by Mr. Joseph : Congratulations to the both of you on this mindblowing build.

An onboard video on the ORR would definitely be appreciated.

Mod Note: Post Edited. Smiley usage is restricted to two per post on Team-BHP. Please do NOT use more than 2 smileys in a post.
We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 15th January 2015 at 16:36.
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