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Old 4th December 2012, 18:50   #241
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Went to Arya Honda today. My name was not on the appointment register (even though I had booked an appointment yesterday) but I was the first to reach (830 am) and my car was immediately wheeled in for a wash. I must say, Arya Honda takes their car wash protocol quite stringently. There are 6 different protocols and three different stations where the car is wheeled in, for exterior, interior and engine bay cleaning. They did quite a good job and it took a whole 1 and a half hours to complete it.
The engine bay was sparkling after they did their job.

Anyway, after this was completed, the car was wheeled into the service bay and I was present throughout the service. Of note was the fact that Arya Honda had a stamp on the work order saying "CUSTOMER WAITING" Quite a nice gesture, which means that the service advisor and mechanic must hurry the process.

I was assigned one technician who was good at everything.
He first connected my car to the HDS (Honda Diagnostic System) and reset the throttle sensor position and the throttle body sensor, and he was done within a few minutes. He started the car up after that and idled for a few minutes after which my RPM started behaving normally, like it did before cleaning the throttle body. So issue 1, Sorted.

Next up, he checked all the fluids. Himself told me that the coolant and transmission fluid require replacement (which is exactly what I wanted to do before I got my car into Arya) and I agreed. The process took a good 1 1/2 hours and I was allowed to be on the service floor all the time. He made a few tweaks and cleaned and tightened a few bolts in the engine bay without me asking him to do so, and despite this not being a whole service routine. Retorqued the suspension for me too.
Drained coolant (which was almost water) and also drained the tranny oil (which had lost it's viscosity and wine red colour) and then put in the new stuff.

Lastly, he also checked the engine mounts and told me they are ok for the time being and I won't have an issue till another 5-10 k km. He also told me how to diagnose a failed mount. Good on him!

The whole time, I was on the floor and I was quite amazed with the professionalism and skill of the guys working on the Honda floor. They even drove the cars well, and carefully, and even though mine was entirely an engine bay job, my steering wheel and driver's seat was covered with Honda protective covers.

I paid Rs. 4388 inclusive of all labour and parts which included 3 litres of tranny oil (Honda Idemitsu) @ 379 rupees a litre, 5 bottles of coolant @ 314 rupees a bottle (the last bottle had 3/4th remaining and was given to me for routine top ups), a few clips in the engine bay @ 70 a piece (round button clips that were missing from the plastic shrouds lining the fenders), and Rs. 250 for HDS reset of the throttle body. The rest was labour and taxes. The cost of this was ok and as per my expectations.

I am also attaching a photo of a CNG'fied Brio which had come there for service and I attach a picture for a special reason. Honda, unlike the other manufacturers DOES NOT have a closed mind towards alternative fuels. They were quite open about servicing a CNG Honda Civic and even gave me a few tips (which I already know) to maintain the car in it's optimum shape.
When I was leaving the grouchy Service advisor Sardar (who turned out to be a nice guy, but just a little unpolished) ran after me to present me with a box of chocolates. I was quite happy with the way he dealt with things and I say he was unpolished because even though he complied with all my requests but didn't sound very reassuring. It felt like he was just listening for the sake of listening because he wasn't communicating freely. But in the end, he had listened to every small instruction and that was what was important.

All said and done, I am visiting this centre again, when the need arises.
Cheers!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_093703-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_094747-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_102205-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_102218-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_102259-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_122300-hdtv-1080.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img20121204wa0003.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img20121204wa0004.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img20121204wa0005.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img20121204wa0006.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-img_20121204_150432-hdtv-1080.jpg  

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Old 4th December 2012, 20:58   #242
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Which service centre was this? Did you by any chance speak to the guy whose number I had given you?
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Old 4th December 2012, 22:32   #243
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Why was the coolant changed by HASS.It's suppose to last 10 years or 100K as per the manual i think ?
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Old 4th December 2012, 23:18   #244
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

@sumeet

the 10year or 1L thing doesnt last in indian conditions max life is 40-45k kms.
In our driving conditions its better to change the coolant every 20k or 2years if its normal coolant and if synthetic coolant every 40k or 3years.

Frank did do brake bleeding?
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Old 5th December 2012, 07:47   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel
@sumeet

the 10year or 1L thing doesnt last in indian conditions max life is 40-45k kms.
In our driving conditions its better to change the coolant every 20k or 2years if its normal coolant and if synthetic coolant every 40k or 3years.

Frank did do brake bleeding?
So that's a myth I fell for at Point of Sales! Shame. 2 lac km or 10 yrs for a City!

Also there are varieties of normal & synthetic coolants? Thanks for the info, really opens up my eyes. I thought it was all ethylene glycol pre mixed in a ratio with water, maybe small amount of additives. That's what we read back in school

Btw is it true that a coolant line is directed towards the CNG reducer for keeping it warm when running on CNG? I've heard sequential kits require this. I've also heard engines runner hotter on CNG. If these two facts are true, maybe that justifies coolant replacement sooner.
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Old 5th December 2012, 12:54   #246
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Which service centre was this? Did you by any chance speak to the guy whose number I had given you?
No man. I think I have his no. wrong bro. Will message you and get the no. again. This was Arya, Lalbaug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Why was the coolant changed by HASS.It's suppose to last 10 years or 100K as per the manual i think ?
Even I thought so, but on seeing the drained out coolant (hardly, it was more like water) I can safely say it's best to keep checking it every 20k km.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel View Post
@sumeet

the 10year or 1L thing doesnt last in indian conditions max life is 40-45k kms.
In our driving conditions its better to change the coolant every 20k or 2years if its normal coolant and if synthetic coolant every 40k or 3years.

Frank did do brake bleeding?
Brake bleeding for ABS via HDS is NOT required in the Civic. The trained technician said so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinfreak View Post
So that's a myth I fell for at Point of Sales! Shame. 2 lac km or 10 yrs for a City!

Also there are varieties of normal & synthetic coolants? Thanks for the info, really opens up my eyes. I thought it was all ethylene glycol pre mixed in a ratio with water, maybe small amount of additives. That's what we read back in school

Btw is it true that a coolant line is directed towards the CNG reducer for keeping it warm when running on CNG? I've heard sequential kits require this. I've also heard engines runner hotter on CNG. If these two facts are true, maybe that justifies coolant replacement sooner.
I didn't know about this coolant line. I shall ask my installer.
Also, I think heat produced in CNG is more too. I feel the heat radiate from my engine bay when I open the bonnet to fill gas.
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Old 5th December 2012, 13:39   #247
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
No man. I think I have his no. wrong bro. Will message you and get the no. again. This was Arya, Lalbaug.
Ah same place, hes the manager there now. Anyway good to know you got decent service even without speaking to him.
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:35   #248
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Honda, unlike the other manufacturers DOES NOT have a closed mind towards alternative fuels. They were quite open about servicing a CNG Honda Civic and even gave me a few tips (which I already know) to maintain the car in it's optimum shape.
Hey good to know your car got a nice service at Arya Honda. The attitude towards CNG seems to differ per service center. I'd given my Civic to Hallmark Honda, Thane yesterday and the SA nearly had a heart attack when I mentioned that the car has a CNG kit installed and almost refused to do any work on the car.
I went to the service workshop in-charge who then agreed to do throttle body cleaning and their routine 40K kms service checks. Also, I was strictly not allowed into the service area.

I had to do the service at Hallmark this time (working from home lately), but will probably try Linkway Honda, Kanjur Marg or Arya Honda, Bhandup next time as they are closer to office.
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:43   #249
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Ah same place, hes the manager there now. Anyway good to know you got decent service even without speaking to him.
Bro, I need that no. for future assistance. Can you message that no. to me?? I think I have one digit wrong or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
Hey good to know your car got a nice service at Arya Honda. The attitude towards CNG seems to differ per service center. I'd given my Civic to Hallmark Honda, Thane yesterday and the SA nearly had a heart attack when I mentioned that the car has a CNG kit installed and almost refused to do any work on the car.
I went to the service workshop in-charge who then agreed to do throttle body cleaning and their routine 40K kms service checks. Also, I was strictly not allowed into the service area.

I had to do the service at Hallmark this time (working from home lately), but will probably try Linkway Honda, Kanjur Marg or Arya Honda, Bhandup next time as they are closer to office.
They don't need to bother about what other modifications we have made to our engines as long as the core machinery is not touched. We don't ask them to tune/service our CNG kits.
Regular preventive maintenance of CNG driven vehicles ensures they perform similar to Petrol, which is why we go to H.AS.S. Throttle body, injectors, filters, all the fluids, brakes and suspension, NOTHING get adversely affected by running a car on CNG. Why should they object to anything?? It's just an extra fitment on the car which we have elected to install, and they don't need to worry about that.
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Old 6th December 2012, 16:58   #250
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I think this attitude has changed only after the launch of City CNG. Better late than never.

Frank, could you find out the answer to the coolant circuit query? I'm looking for a kit for my City as well, and doing preliminary research as of now. Increasing suspension height is something everyone is mentioning. But different views about coolant lines.
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Old 6th December 2012, 18:21   #251
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Nope, the City CNG is a long while away. Apparently (according to the technician) they haven't YET been trained to service a Honda Brio Automatic. The first one just rolled into their floor for service the day I went to get my Civic serviced.
So they have NO idea about how to service CNG vehicles.
Hope they learn soon so they can use their expertise while servicing our cars.
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Old 6th December 2012, 19:09   #252
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They don't need to bother about what other modifications we have made to our engines as long as the core machinery is not touched. We don't ask them to tune/service our CNG kits.
Regular preventive maintenance of CNG driven vehicles ensures they perform similar to Petrol, which is why we go to H.AS.S. Throttle body, injectors, filters, all the fluids, brakes and suspension, NOTHING get adversely affected by running a car on CNG. Why should they object to anything?? It's just an extra fitment on the car which we have elected to install, and they don't need to worry about that.
Exactly the points I was arguing with them. Anyway, I collected the car from them with only minor work done. Till the end they refused to do any work related to throttle body, although they did clean the injectors and changed the filters.
Needless to say, this will probably be the last time I visit them. I'll be going to my local mechanic for routine stuff and to some other HASS for major services.
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Old 6th December 2012, 19:25   #253
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Correct. Anyway Honda spark plugs are very expensive and so are their filters. I would like to get all of that done outside.
The reason I had to go to Honda this time was to use their ECU Reset tool for my bouncing throttle body. AND because I don't like to put in anything other than HONDA oil into my transmission (this oil is available outside, but for a very high premium)
Also, their coolant is something that is not available in the market openly.

I agree with you about going to a local mechanic for routine stuff, but the time I need to change my Hydraulic mounts and my front dampers, the car will ONLY be sent to Honda. Reason being, you don't get original Honda parts in the market and mounts and dampers are two things one must not skimp on. The handling of the car depends on the dampers and OE mounts are known to wear out very soon.
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Old 7th December 2012, 22:21   #254
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Correct. Anyway Honda spark plugs are very expensive and so are their filters. I would like to get all of that done outside.
The reason I had to go to Honda this time was to use their ECU Reset tool for my bouncing throttle body. AND because I don't like to put in anything other than HONDA oil into my transmission (this oil is available outside, but for a very high premium)
Also, their coolant is something that is not available in the market openly.

I agree with you about going to a local mechanic for routine stuff, but the time I need to change my Hydraulic mounts and my front dampers, the car will ONLY be sent to Honda. Reason being, you don't get original Honda parts in the market and mounts and dampers are two things one must not skimp on. The handling of the car depends on the dampers and OE mounts are known to wear out very soon.
Yup, spark plugs, engine oil, air filter were replaced by the dealer when I purchased the car - had verified that myself.
I mainly gave the car in for the 40K service, changing the transmission oil, the throttle body cleaning and uncovering anything else thats gone wrong in the ~3k kms that I've owned the car. One of the things they did find was weakening of the engine mount, the other being a leak in the power steering pump. They also reported the battery being weak and the alternator being fine which is wierd since the battery is brand new, so I don't fully trust what they have reported.
My Local mechanic is out of town so I'll probably get these verified and fixed from Arya Honda, Lalbaugh based on your feedback on the thread and since i'll be staying in our Tardeo apt from this weekend till the new year (convenient timing, huh?), so this becomes on way to work.
Would you recommend the SA you worked with @ Arya Honda? Could you please PM me with details?

Last edited by gomzi : 7th December 2012 at 22:45.
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Old 7th December 2012, 23:19   #255
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

@gomzi

The power steering pump leak can be either leak within the pump or external leak in the hoses, one of our bhpians civic was diagnosed to be with busted axel boots but it turned out to be leak in the return line of the power steering pump. Which is Repairable at a cheaper cost outside.
For the battery just go to any battery walla and tell him to do a proper load test on it, if it clears then your battery is good if not then fight it out with you battery manufacturer company and get a replacement.
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