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Old 23rd September 2012, 20:13   #46
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Un-believable running costs you've mentioned there Frank! Kudos to you for thinking up such an awesome plan in the first place.

With such low running costs, even I'm thinking of getting my newly refurbished Optra 1.6 CNG'ed at the earliest. So I guess the obvious question remains, how much dough does one need to spend outta pocket to get this done? And what might the after effects be? A detailed post about the kit, associated costs and pro's/cons might be extremely beneficial to the petrolhead community here, who don't want to get rid of their petrol driven rides due to the rising petrol costs, but don't want to settle for a Diesel powerplant either. Let us know, if you can please, in a detailed post.

Once again, congrats on the new Civic, and hope to see more updates on running costs and reliability.
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Old 24th September 2012, 14:06   #47
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Great Now that the experiment is officially successful, you mind revealing the cost involved in the operation?

Although my primary plan is to go for a new D segment car a few months down the line, I plan to follow this with keen interest as I getting a used Civic and converting to CNG will be my 'back up' plan. I want to be prepared.

Oh, and yes, I think that getting a auto tranny car converting to CNG was a better idea than a manual one. The very fact that gear changes are automatic gives the ECU a better chance to work seamlessly. This was just in theory..Till now, that is! Brilliant and great going
Thanks a ton!!

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Originally Posted by abeerbagul View Post
Congrats on a successful conversion to CNG. For people like me who live their entire lives below 3000 rpm, this is a godsend.

This conversion gives good driveability in city at commute speeds and decent performance upto 100 - 120 kmph on highway, which is what 90% of people need.

What is the capacity of the cylinder, and what is the weight? Is the sequential kit a bolt on addition, or do they drill holes in the engine to insert injectors?
This is the lighter cylinder with a 75 litre (16 kg) capacity so it weight about 60 kgs when empty and 75 kgs with Gas inside. I did 130 kmph yesterday and didn't even realize it. It's that smooth.
The sequential kit is definitely not an easy install in the civic. One has to drill holes into the manifold to fit the injectors, which is why installation of a CNG kit in the Civic is best left to experts.

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Originally Posted by malgudi View Post
Hey Frank,
Congratulations on the successful conversion. I am sure this would put lot of Used Civic's in reach of TBHPian atleast as Mileage is one reason lot of people shy away from Civic. Can you also put up the picture of the tank in the boot to give an idea of the space it occupies and if possible the cost of conversion
See photos below. They will explain a lot.

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Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Un-believable running costs you've mentioned there Frank! Kudos to you for thinking up such an awesome plan in the first place.

With such low running costs, even I'm thinking of getting my newly refurbished Optra 1.6 CNG'ed at the earliest. So I guess the obvious question remains, how much dough does one need to spend outta pocket to get this done? And what might the after effects be? A detailed post about the kit, associated costs and pro's/cons might be extremely beneficial to the petrolhead community here, who don't want to get rid of their petrol driven rides due to the rising petrol costs, but don't want to settle for a Diesel powerplant either. Let us know, if you can please, in a detailed post.

Once again, congrats on the new Civic, and hope to see more updates on running costs and reliability.
I shall post a longish term review in the next week, after running about 500 km with her.
As for the cost of the kit, I paid 58k all inclusive (with RTO fees too)
The kit can be procured for 53k with a 10 kg cylinder, 56k with a 14 kg cylinder and 58k with a 16 kg cylinder. We opted for the largest and lightest one.


Ok, guys, a small hitch. I started her up at night and drove off. Realized that the light is blinking again and again and the car is driving on petrol. Suddenly the switch lights also went off. I suspected a loose battery connection and went out and checked. It was. And a very obvious one at that. The kit (ECU) was connected to the battery via a nut, directly and I noticed the nut was very loose. Tightened the nut and went and started her up. Sure enough, changeover happened within a few seconds. Problem solved.
Only issue is, that since the ECU was disconnected from the battery for a few hours, the ECU now has amnesia and has forgotten the map that was uploaded onto it 2 days ago. I called up Suraj Auto and they confirmed that the ECU forgets when it is disconnected from the battery so I gotta go back to them reupload my original map. Till then, the car drives well on CNG but not convincingly so, expectedly. I shall go to them and have the map uploaded in the next one or two days. Shall keep you guys updated about this soon.


Till then, here are some pictures of the engine bay. Make sure to zoom into the pics to see the injectors behind the engine, installed into the manifold. Also there are only 3 major parts in the sequential kit, that is the vaporiser (or reducer), the ECU and the injectors. Tried to take photos of all of them, including the CNG filler. Also took photos of the switch inside the car and the boot, with an oversized umbrella placed inside to give you an idea of the space left.
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Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-dsc_0220.jpg  

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Old 24th September 2012, 20:35   #48
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Wow congrats on a successful conversion.58K means you will be able to recover the cost in around 10K Kms after which the savings will be HUGE.I guess the 58K cost does not include the price you paid for the spark plugs.Pardon my ignorance but how does one refill the CNG tank.Does the boot has to be opened to do a refill ?

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 24th September 2012 at 20:36.
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Old 24th September 2012, 20:52   #49
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Wow congrats on a successful conversion.58K means you will be able to recover the cost in around 10K Kms after which the savings will be HUGE.I guess the 58K cost does not include the price you paid for the spark plugs.Pardon my ignorance but how does one refill the CNG tank.Does the boot has to be opened to do a refill ?
The 58k cost is for the conversion alone. The earlier day I had done a fluid and spark plug change (part of a 6 monthly service) for 5 k rupees. That included an air filter, oil filter, new wiper blades, engine oil and brake oil.


Guys, today's update:
115.6 kms---------------> 252 rupees of CNG. No petrol running. All with A/c. City running plus small stretch of open road (10-15 km)
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Old 24th September 2012, 22:15   #50
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

frank what a great choice!! shes fun to drive, easy to maintain, easy to drive good looking ,absolutely VFM cheap to maintain n cheap to drive... really amazing choice.congo.much better than figo d!
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Old 24th September 2012, 22:44   #51
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
Wow congrats on a successful conversion.58K means you will be able to recover the cost in around 10K Kms after which the savings will be HUGE.I guess the 58K cost does not include the price you paid for the spark plugs.Pardon my ignorance but how does one refill the CNG tank.Does the boot has to be opened to do a refill ?
I have shown the photos. There is a blue coloured valve on that part. That's the filler. You need to attach the gas pipe there. The bonnet has to be opened, not the boot.

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Originally Posted by procircuit_234 View Post
frank what a great choice!! shes fun to drive, easy to maintain, easy to drive good looking ,absolutely VFM cheap to maintain n cheap to drive... really amazing choice.congo.much better than figo d!
Thanks Amit.



Now for the customary key chain upgrade. The most apt keyring was chosen here. Pictures.
Attached Thumbnails
Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-dsc_0221-copy.jpg  

Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!-dsc_0222-copy.jpg  

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Old 25th September 2012, 09:21   #52
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Now for the customary key chain upgrade. The most apt keyring was chosen here. Pictures.
I hope you have got 2 sets of keys.One is with remote and the other is just a key.Was the remote key not handed over to you ?
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Old 25th September 2012, 10:30   #53
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Nope, the remote key has been misplaced by the earlier owner and I will be getting a replacement from them when they come back from abroad (the owners are NRIs)
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Old 25th September 2012, 11:31   #54
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Frank, I find it very odd that the ECU is forgetting the map when disconnected from the battery. This should not be happening. The map should be remembered by the ECU and only the short term and long term fuel trims should be forgotten and re-learnt over a period of time.

I have gotten a sequential LPG Lovato kit fitted in my factory supervisor's Alto and that does not suffer from this problem. Can you please check with them why this is happening?
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Old 25th September 2012, 15:17   #55
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Wow!

That is a very professional looking install Frank. Probably one of the best I've seen. Your experiences with CNG are giving me some wild ideas now

Thinking of doing the with mine, run it everyday and get a German beauty

Do keep updating us with your experiences

Regards

Pashin
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Old 25th September 2012, 16:24   #56
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Frank, I find it very odd that the ECU is forgetting the map when disconnected from the battery. This should not be happening. The map should be remembered by the ECU and only the short term and long term fuel trims should be forgotten and re-learnt over a period of time.

I have gotten a sequential LPG Lovato kit fitted in my factory supervisor's Alto and that does not suffer from this problem. Can you please check with them why this is happening?
I was wrong about that. So were they. I went and showed the car and they had to reconnect the ECU which was loosely connected to the battery. That kept going off, hence the kit kept coming off and on. Now they have tightened all connections and she drives very very well. Average is also mind boggling! I revved the nuts off her yesterday on the way back from Borivali and she returned this average. I wonder how she will perform while hypermiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashin View Post
Wow!

That is a very professional looking install Frank. Probably one of the best I've seen. Your experiences with CNG are giving me some wild ideas now

Thinking of doing the with mine, run it everyday and get a German beauty

Do keep updating us with your experiences

Regards

Pashin
Thanks. I will recommend it ONLY if it drives this way even after a year or 20000 km or so. Technically, I am a beta tester for you'll and I wanna make sure she drives the same, always.
Also, I might have been slightly over optimistic. She HAS lost a little (10%) of power on CNG but I am going to fix that with a well planned free-flow exhaust, and later, a custom cold air intake.
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Old 25th September 2012, 20:01   #57
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Now for the customary key chain upgrade. The most apt keyring was chosen here. Pictures.
Frank how much for that keychain and from where?
Congratulations for the fab ride,happy motoring.
Still in a state of shock regarding your signature:(
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Old 25th September 2012, 21:55   #58
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Keychain is from a member of teambhp. DJNik. he has a store on ebay called UnitedKustoms
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Old 26th September 2012, 13:41   #59
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
This is the lighter cylinder with a 75 litre (16 kg) capacity so it weight about 60 kgs when empty and 75 kgs with Gas inside. I did 130 kmph yesterday and didn't even realize it. It's that smooth.
The sequential kit is definitely not an easy install in the civic. One has to drill holes into the manifold to fit the injectors, which is why installation of a CNG kit in the Civic is best left to experts.

See photos below. They will explain a lot.
So with this thread & your inspiration, i spoke to Mr. Arun Jain last night. Plan to get this installed in my i10 Automatic which can become my daily drive instead of the hard clutch-ed Logan Diesel. Since the Vento AT is not driven much, not considering it. Lets see how it goes. Super thread Frank!
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Old 26th September 2012, 15:52   #60
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Hey Frank,
Heartiest congratulations on the Civic and also for the CNG kit, of course. I'm late to the party, but hey better late than never.

As an ertswhile owner of the Civic I can relate to what you're experiencing. And I agree the interiors are the by far the best feature on the Civic.

I'm surprised you've (so far) haven't had any issues with the soft rear suspension moreso now that you've got this CNG kit installed.

Wish you have miles upon miles of thrills (cheap ) in your ride.

Cheers
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