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Old 9th October 2012, 13:54   #121
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Frank, 3000k HID light is almost green. Why would you want to do that? I would recommend 3500k for yellow or regular 4200k for what is the market standard today.
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Old 9th October 2012, 14:00   #122
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post

The other thing I found worth mentioning was the fact that the engine stayed at low RPMs (2.2k) at all points while cruising at speeds of 120-130 km and only rose while accelerating. If it was on Petrol, I would have seen the needle pinned at 3000 RPM plus. Maybe, CNG is more efficient than Petrol at high speeds (when high volumes of air is being swallowed by the intake). Maybe, just maybe. But I did clearly notice the low RPM at all times on CNG and this is probably the reason why she gave such a good average.
Seems unusual. Did you notice the petrol light come up. Ideally at what high speeds does the petrol light come up or at what rpm what you usually noticed the petrol light come up while quick rev overtaking/accelerating.
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Old 9th October 2012, 14:13   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Thank you for a eye opener.
Regards,
You're welcome. According to me, city travel with traffic demands a CNG Automatic. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpeshc View Post
The brokerdalal.com site has a very tempting offer on a 2007 Civic - 4.95L.
I've seen the car. Not bad. But not as clean as mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by satyamkaushik View Post
We both seem to share the same model, can you clear one of my queries ?
Do the indicators blink when you lock/unlock the car ? Or am i confusing it with the accord ?
When i unlock my accord there is a single blink and when i lock it there are 3.
When i do the same on the civic i can just see the cabin bulb lighting up.
Is it just with my car or is it with you as well ?
My car shows up indicators every time I lock or unlock. The fact that yours isn't showing it could be a configuration issue. Ask them to attach their scangauge and check if this has been enabled from the ECU.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
Have a Civic 1.8s, August 2006 model. Now at 82K.
Got my CNG kit installed in Jan 2011 when it was at 58k.
To answer your question, YES the indicators do blink when they civic is lock/unlocked.
Thrice when locked,once when unlocked.
Oh awesome! One more fellow Civic owner with CNG!



Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
My experience in a nutshell ,iv described above. If there is anything specific you want to know i could tell you or even Frank for that matter.
The make of my kit is BRC (closed loop sequential) and my Civic is a manual.
You put it most aptly. So according to me, an Auto Civic might do better on CNG than Manual?? I think that holds true in this case as the shifting down in a Auto is seamless and Civic Auto is more than eager to shift down!


Quote:
Originally Posted by satyamkaushik View Post
Is it feasible to get the conversion done on a 100k odo car.
Totally confused.
Not recommended for anything less than 1000 km a month. Anything more than that, I would say, close your eyes and go for it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
I dont think you need a CNG kit at this stage if (big if) you dont intend to double your monthly mileage with the civic anytime soon. Even if you consider your top limit of 700km/month you are not even clocking 8500km yearly.
Good luck
100k means a lot of components might already be through a lot of wear. I'd recommend keeping the car sand running in Petrol or selling her immediately and buying another Civic Auto and making her into a workhorse like mine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Frank, 3000k HID light is almost green. Why would you want to do that? I would recommend 3500k for yellow or regular 4200k for what is the market standard today.
Umm, ok, so I might pitch for the 3500k yellow ones as that is the only colour that paints the road well when it's wet and the street lights are on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
Seems unusual. Did you notice the petrol light come up. Ideally at what high speeds does the petrol light come up or at what rpm what you usually noticed the petrol light come up while quick rev overtaking/accelerating.
Nothing unusual mate. BTW, the Petrol light NEVER comes on. The car runs on CNG all the time. The reason why the first time I got the car back and saw the Petrol light blinking was because there was a loose connection (battery) for the kit.
After warming up the engine, the Petrol light never comes back on. The car runs on CNG and pulls well even to 6000 rpm without beckoning the services of Petrol.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please avoid quoting an entire large post. It inconveniences our small screen & mobile readers. Also, please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread!

Last edited by moralfibre : 9th October 2012 at 19:23. Reason: Back to back posts and trimming quoted posts.
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Old 9th October 2012, 14:23   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

I dont think you need a CNG kit at this stage if (big if) you dont intend to double your monthly mileage with the civic anytime soon. Even if you consider your top limit of 700km/month you are not even clocking 8500km yearly.
Finally , how much has your car already clocked should hardly be a point to consider before you install the kit (assuming it is in decent shape) . What you need to factor is the distance you 'intend' to clock with it now on until the time you sell it.
Good luck
The car used to do a 150-200 km drive daily previously but these days its is hardly been used, one factor of course is the running cost and secondly searching a parking spot for a car like civic is a big task.

As of now i dont think it would be beneficial for me to get a CNG conversion done, but thats just for now.

What i was thinking was to get it converted to CNG and use it as my mainstream cr for daily use, coz all 4 cars i have are petrol and you can imagine running 4 petrol cars daily with fuel prices getting so high.
But again this is just a thought that came into my mind after reading frank's post.

Coming to the car, i bet you can't make put that it has already clocked soo much on the odo, nor does it looks a 5 year car cosmetically.
So that worries me, if the car tends to lose its charm after the CNG conversion in long term.
Plus i dont wanna end up visiting the workshop every now and then for minor issues.

I haven't ever experienced such a car on an alternative fuel, i have only driven the regular santros and zens with a CNG kit and didn't like the overall feel of the drive.

But reading your's and frank's experience makes me think of giving it a thought.

Last edited by Technocrat : 11th October 2012 at 02:57. Reason: Please quote selectively as it helps our mobile readers, thanks
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Old 9th October 2012, 14:25   #125
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post




Oh awesome! One more fellow Civic owner with CNG!
Bingo !



Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
You put it most aptly. So according to me, an Auto Civic might do better on CNG than Manual?? I think that holds true in this case as the shifting down in a Auto is seamless and Civic Auto is more than eager to shift down!

Any day. Look at the sheer convenience - Such a beautiful car ,so cheap to run, and an automatic in our traffic. Win-Win if u ask me !
I do expect the manual to yield better figures on the efficiency front though.
The figures im getting IN THE CITY are downright funny!
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Old 9th October 2012, 15:05   #126
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Ah, lucky people. *sigh*. Wish the wonder that is CNG was available in Chennai.
Would have considered converting my Optra in a heartbeat.
Sadly, CNG is not available, and LPG doesn't make much sense considering the rising prices of all govt subsidized fuels.

Anyway, some news articles I read on the net do mention about CNG coming to Chennai and Bangalore.
Sometime in 2013, maybe. Who knows. If it does, and if prices remain relatively similar, then I'd be the first to take a page out of your book Frank. Your idea has convinced me to hold onto the petrol driven sedan idea, and not give into the diesel hatchback shift. Thanks for being such a huge source of inspiration mate! Kudos to you.
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Old 9th October 2012, 22:42   #127
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Frank, just one more thing did it anytime showed engine check light as on? Many cars which get converted to CNG have this problem hence wanted to understand this. Also did you went to Suraj Autogas Chembur or Bandra?
I must admit your conversion has set my mind rolling on the same lines. If you give your conversion a thumbs up then probably I'll be following you
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:06   #128
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabhkum View Post
Frank, just one more thing did it anytime showed engine check light as on? Many cars which get converted to CNG have this problem hence wanted to understand this. Also did you went to Suraj Autogas Chembur or Bandra?
I must admit your conversion has set my mind rolling on the same lines. If you give your conversion a thumbs up then probably I'll be following you

No Saurabh. NO engine check light. Apparently, there is no reason why there should be a CEL when you attach a Sequential Kit since it's got it's own ECU to manage the business, and when the kit is first installed in the car, they take a laptop, connect it to this ECU and AUTO CALIBRATE the Lovato ECU with the original ECU of the car and the new ECU tries to emulate the original one as closely as possible so the sensors in and around the manifold and throttle body get fueled in a similar way as Petrol.
I tell you, according to me, getting a CEL is almost close to impossible if tuned correctly.
I have gotten it done at Suraj AutoGas, Bandra.
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:25   #129
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
No Saurabh. NO engine check light. Apparently, there is no reason why there should be a CEL when you attach a Sequential Kit since it's got it's own ECU to manage the business, and when the kit is first installed in the car, they take a laptop, connect it to this ECU and AUTO CALIBRATE the Lovato ECU with the original ECU of the car and the new ECU tries to emulate the original one as closely as possible so the sensors in and around the manifold and throttle body get fueled in a similar way as Petrol.
I tell you, according to me, getting a CEL is almost close to impossible if tuned correctly.
I have gotten it done at Suraj AutoGas, Bandra.
Thanks Frank, as mentioned earlier this thread has cleared doubt which we generally have in terms of CNG in a premium car like Civic.We generally associate CNG converted cars in India as not premium or downmarket or with owners who just want to run their cars without thinking about the car's long term engine life. And your conversion that too in Automatic makes me believe that in premium segment converting an automatic makes much more sense. Yes at the same time we have to be sure of the Kit and more than Kit on the Installer side who can complete this job to satisfaction. I'm closely watching this space as if this turns out to be successful and everything with me falls in place then I might buy a used Civic and get it converted.
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:42   #130
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
  • The other thing I found worth mentioning was the fact that the engine stayed at low RPMs (2.2k) at all points while cruising at speeds of 120-130 km and only rose while accelerating. If it was on Petrol, I would have seen the needle pinned at 3000 RPM plus. Maybe, CNG is more efficient than Petrol at high speeds (when high volumes of air is being swallowed by the intake). Maybe, just maybe. But I did clearly notice the low RPM at all times on CNG and this is probably the reason why she gave such a good average.
What's the RPM at 120kmph in 5'th when running on petrol? 3000?
And now on CNG, it does 120 kmph at 2200 rpm in 5'th???

Hmmm...strange! Is the calorific value of CNG more than that of gasoline?
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:52   #131
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
What's the RPM at 120kmph in 5'th when running on petrol? 3000?
And now on CNG, it does 120 kmph at 2200 rpm in 5'th???

Hmmm...strange! Is the calorific value of CNG more than that of gasoline?
In my CNG'ed car, RPM is same as on petrol and on CNG. My car is around 3k rpm on 120 and it's same on CNG.

No changes whatsoever on CNG

Cheers,
Sameer
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Old 10th October 2012, 13:19   #132
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
The other thing I found worth mentioning was the fact that the engine stayed at low RPMs (2.2k) at all points while cruising at speeds of 120-130 km and only rose while accelerating. If it was on Petrol, I would have seen the needle pinned at 3000 RPM plus. Maybe, CNG is more efficient than Petrol at high speeds (when high volumes of air is being swallowed by the intake). Maybe, just maybe. But I did clearly notice the low RPM at all times on CNG and this is probably the reason why she gave such a good average.
Drop in engine RPM at a particular vehicle speed is not possible by running a different fuel. To achieve this you need to alter gearbox ratios. Just remember the wheels and your engine are connected by physical linkages. So whether you drive on Petrol or CNG the engine RPM vs speed values will remain exactly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
What's the RPM at 120kmph in 5'th when running on petrol? 3000?
And now on CNG, it does 120 kmph at 2200 rpm in 5'th???

Hmmm...strange! Is the calorific value of CNG more than that of gasoline?
How can a higher calorific value of CNG result in a drop of engine RPMs? Higher calorific value only means that you will have more power and accelerate faster but ultimately at say 120kmph the engine will still be at the same RPM irrespective of fuel used.
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Old 10th October 2012, 13:47   #133
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post

How can a higher calorific value of CNG result in a drop of engine RPMs? Higher calorific value only means that you will have more power and accelerate faster but ultimately at say 120kmph the engine will still be at the same RPM irrespective of fuel used.
OK, on seconds thoughts, you are right. I am just trying to understand how CNG usage can make this RPM change happen so I am thinking aloud. Once the given speed is achieved, if you want to maintain it steady, engine speed will remain constant as long as gear ratios are same. The amount of fuel consumed may change depending upon some factors like amount of air inducted, and combustion efficiency...but that difference will not reflect in the form of RPMs, I think.
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Old 10th October 2012, 13:57   #134
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
OK, on seconds thoughts, you are right. I am just trying to understand how CNG usage can make this RPM change happen so I am thinking aloud. Once the given speed is achieved, if you want to maintain it steady, engine speed will remain constant as long as gear ratios are same. The amount of fuel consumed may change depending upon some factors like amount of air inducted, and combustion efficiency...but that difference will not reflect in the form of RPMs, I think.
CNG usage cannot change the RPM of a car at a particular speed in a particular gear.

Let me give you an example. Let's say a car will do 80kmph at 2000rpm in fifth gear with petrol. Since the gear ratios are constant. That same car will also do 80kmph at 2000rpm in fifth gear with CNG also.

The vehicle speed and engine rpm cannot drop because of a change in fuel type. If you want to drop engine RPM at a particular speed in a particular gear then you have to change the gear box ratios to taller ratios.

I had done this in my turbo swift petrol. The car was generating way too much torque for city driving. So we swapped out the stock final drive with one that had taller ratios on the final drive. After this conversion the engine RPM at 100kmph in 5th gear dropped by about 600rpm.

Last edited by vikram_d : 10th October 2012 at 13:59.
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Old 10th October 2012, 20:32   #135
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Default re: Frankmehta's Practical Workhorse: Honda Civic AT CNG. EDIT: Sold!

@Frank: I guess the 120kmph @3000 RPM on petrol happens in 4th gear, not 5th. For Civic AT, the ratio for 5th is very tall and it comes to 55kmph for every 1000 RPM in 5th gear. So, 120kmph will happen at around 2200 RPM on stock Civic AT (I know, I have one too) on Petrol. Thats exactly what you experienced on CNG too.

I guess you mixed it up since you were not used to the AT behaviour and you drove it for very less time on Petrol.
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