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Old 9th March 2013, 11:11   #136
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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I noticed that the intercooler outlet hose had a coat of engine oil inside it. As a matter of fact, when I tilted it a few drops of oil fell out. You will note in this picture that some oil is visible at the intercooler outlet. I was informed by the mechanic that this is ‘normal’. I was not unduly alarmed as I had observed some oil collecting inside the intercooler of my Swift VDi too.
The mechanic is right. This is perfectly normal. Nothing to worry about. This oil comes from the PCV valve which has a tube connecting the valve cover to the upper side of the air intake and is a part of the crankcase ventilation system. Even modern engines have some amount of air blow by. So this air is recirculated back into the intake so that it can be burnt by the engine. This recirculated air normally pick up some oil vapours from the valve covers and that is the oil that you see.

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Old 9th March 2013, 12:43   #137
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Debuda, thanks for the detailed photos about the siren. Its interesting that the part-number is same for the old design as against the new design. If I remember correctly, when they redesigned the PS high-pressure hose, the new deign had a different part-number as compared to the old-design part.

Since there is no visual indication using which the new design can be distinguished from the old design, a different part number would have helped.
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Old 9th March 2013, 13:57   #138
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Debuda, thanks for the detailed photos about the siren. Its interesting that the part-number is same for the old design as against the new design. If I remember correctly, when they redesigned the PS high-pressure hose, the new deign had a different part-number as compared to the old-design part.

Since there is no visual indication using which the new design can be distinguished from the old design, a different part number would have helped.
Revision number is different. For minor changes this is enough.

Edit: I'm assuming the S12 & E12 are revision numbers

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Old 9th March 2013, 16:19   #139
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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I noticed that the intercooler outlet hose had a coat of engine oil inside it. As a matter of fact, when I tilted it a few drops of oil fell out. You will note in this picture that some oil is visible at the intercooler outlet. I was informed by the mechanic that this is ‘normal’. I was not unduly alarmed as I had observed some oil collecting inside the intercooler of my Swift VDi too.
Attachment 1059842
Yes, I am always told by my service guys that a little bit is normal, but so far I haven't had an opportunity to see how much this little bit is "normally" because of my leaking turbo. BTW, this much oil is after how many km of usage? And did you clean it so that when you happen to open this pipe next time, you can have some reference to judge net leakage?

BTW, 17km/L is amazing. What speeds do you drive generally on the highways?
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Old 9th March 2013, 16:43   #140
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

What a fantastic thread I came upon totally by chance Debuda!

Sir I am originally from Jamshedpur as well. Lived half my boyhood years in Kadma, and the other half in CH Area.

Since dad retired and parents are both now with me in Pune, its been a long time since I've been back to Jampot. Would love to see some in-city photos too just for nostalgia's sake.
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Old 9th March 2013, 22:52   #141
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
The mechanic is right. This is perfectly normal. Nothing to worry about. This oil comes from the PCV valve which has a tube connecting the valve cover to the upper side of the air intake and is a part of the crankcase ventilation system. Even modern engines have some amount of air blow by. So this air is recirculated back into the intake so that it can be burnt by the engine. This recirculated air normally pick up some oil vapours from the valve covers and that is the oil that you see.
I fully agree with you regarding the source of oil inside the intercooler being the Positive Crankcase Ventilation system. But there is one more source, which is really worrisome, and that is leaking turbocharger oil seals. This usually happens after about a lakh KM, to the best of my knowledge.

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Yes, I am always told by my service guys that a little bit is normal, but so far I haven't had an opportunity to see how much this little bit is "normally" because of my leaking turbo. BTW, this much oil is after how many km of usage? And did you clean it so that when you happen to open this pipe next time, you can have some reference to judge net leakage?

BTW, 17km/L is amazing. What speeds do you drive generally on the highways?
My car has done just over 10,000 KM and so as compared to your Tucson it is still virginal! As a wild guess, the total amount of oil inside my intercooler and associated plumbing could be 10 ml or so. In my earlier car, a Swift VDi, when I had the EGR system and intercooler cleaned at 45,000 KM on the ODO, about 100 ml of oil came out of the intercooler. But we have to bear in mind two important things :
  1. A part of the oil which reaches the intercooler manages to flow to the intake manifold and thereafter gets burnt in the engine. So the amount of residual oil found in the intercooler won't reveal the whole story.
  2. In the XUV, the intercooler is mounted horizontally above the engine (higher than the intake manifold). Furthermore, the intercooler outlet is at a slightly lower level than the inlet. So instead of accumulating inside the intercooler, the oil will tend to flow by gravity towards the intake manifold. On the other hand, in a car like the Swift (diesel), the intercooler is mounted vertically and well below the intake manifold. So more oil would tend to accumulate in a Swift's intercooler over a period of time. I have no idea about the position of the intercooler in your Tucson.

In an old engine, it would be best to keep a close watch on the engine oil dipstick to get a hang of the overall oil consumption.

I did not insist on having my intercooler cleaned, because due to reasons explained above not too much oil can collect inside a XUV's intercooler.

As regards mileage, my XUV has indeed exceeded my expectations. Just yesterday, I sat down with my car's fuel filling and consumption data (I religiously maintain a diary) and found that the actual average mileage over 10,000 KM works out to 15.84 KMPL. I also figured that the digital information system shows 6-7% higher mileage. Anyway, 15.84 KMPL calculated over 10,000 KM is phenomenal mileage for a 140 BHP / 2.2 litre engine. But it may be noted that almost 90% of my driving thus far has been long distance (and in winter).

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What a fantastic thread I came upon totally by chance Debuda!

Sir I am originally from Jamshedpur as well. Lived half my boyhood years in Kadma, and the other half in CH Area.

Since dad retired and parents are both now with me in Pune, its been a long time since I've been back to Jampot. Would love to see some in-city photos too just for nostalgia's sake.
Thanks. Do visit Jamshedpur and look me up. You may find some pics of Jamshedpur taken by me at my online Picasa gallery.
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Old 11th March 2013, 10:25   #142
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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My car has done just over 10,000 KM and so as compared to your Tucson it is still virginal! As a wild guess, the total amount of oil inside my intercooler and associated plumbing could be 10 ml or so. In my earlier car, a Swift VDi, when I had the EGR system and intercooler cleaned at 45,000 KM on the ODO, about 100 ml of oil came out of the intercooler. But we have to bear in mind two important things :
  1. A part of the oil which reaches the intercooler manages to flow to the intake manifold and thereafter gets burnt in the engine. So the amount of residual oil found in the intercooler won't reveal the whole story.
  2. In the XUV, the intercooler is mounted horizontally above the engine (higher than the intake manifold). Furthermore, the intercooler outlet is at a slightly lower level than the inlet. So instead of accumulating inside the intercooler, the oil will tend to flow by gravity towards the intake manifold. On the other hand, in a car like the Swift (diesel), the intercooler is mounted vertically and well below the intake manifold. So more oil would tend to accumulate in a Swift's intercooler over a period of time. I have no idea about the position of the intercooler in your Tucson.
Yes sir, the intercooler in Tucson is way below the intake manifold (it sits between the front left tyre and left fog lamp). According to my SA the oil accumilates inside over years, it won't be sucked into the intake manifold until intercooler is almost filled with it. In mHawk engines, I saw the intercooler position and I found it nice and unique - from cooling and air-flow efficiency point of view, but this is complex fuild dynamics so there will be many things about this that I can not readily figure out, but in this setup, it seems it's a bit more possible for the oil to be sucked and burnt in the engine.

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Anyway, 15.84 KMPL calculated over 10,000 KM is phenomenal mileage for a 140 BHP / 2.2 litre engine. But it may be noted that almost 90% of my driving thus far has been long distance (and in winter).
Wow. But what are your average speeds on the highway. I generally make generous use of my right foot and over any tank-ful (around 700km), I have been getting 10 to 11.5 kmpl - over last 4 years. After the remap, even that would be a challenge I am afraid.

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Old 11th March 2013, 22:42   #143
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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In mHawk engines, I saw the intercooler position and I found it nice and unique - from cooling and air-flow efficiency point of view, but this is complex fuild dynamics so there will be many things about this that I can not readily figure out, but in this setup, it seems it's a bit more possible for the oil to be sucked and burnt in the engine.

Wow (regarding mileage). But what are your average speeds on the highway. I generally make generous use of my right foot and over any tank-ful (around 700km), I have been getting 10 to 11.5 kmpl - over last 4 years. After the remap, even that would be a challenge I am afraid.
The mHawk engine of the XUV is more refined than that of the Scorpio. To know about the twin air scoops of the XUV intercooler (unlike the bonnet scoop of the Scorpio) check out post No. 6 on page 1 of this thread. XUV also has a Variable Geometry Turbo. So despite the extra 20 horses the XUV engine returns greater fuel economy.

And yes, the mHawk intercooler is positioned to discourage oil accumulation.

As a 61-year old fogey, I drive in a manner befitting my age. My average speeds on good Indian highways would be around 70 KMPH.
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Old 13th March 2013, 18:10   #144
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Debuda sir, this is my first post on your thread, and trust me I have been through each and every travelouge of yours inquisitively. I would like to thank you, as I really fancy having a life like you someday, the day I retire, I'll buy a new car, fill it up, and just leave to explore the world. As of now, I'm pretty young, but I still never miss an opportunity to drive.
There is nothing really I could ask you regarding the XUV, as your thread has each and every aspect in SO much detail.
Keep Driving sir
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Old 14th March 2013, 13:09   #145
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Debuda sir, this is my first post on your thread, and trust me I have been through each and every travelouge of yours inquisitively. I would like to thank you, as I really fancy having a life like you someday, the day I retire, I'll buy a new car, fill it up, and just leave to explore the world. As of now, I'm pretty young, but I still never miss an opportunity to drive.
There is nothing really I could ask you regarding the XUV, as your thread has each and every aspect in SO much detail.
Keep Driving sir
Thanks, ZMG. The only piece of 'wisdom' that I'd like to share with you is that never defer everything you are passionate about to 'retirement' or any such distant milestone in your life. Even if you get 20-30 days of leave every year, use them to vigorously pursue activities that are close to your heart. 'Enjoying life' should be a continuous process and should not start 'after children get married' or 'after the EMI on the home loan is paid up' or 'after I retire'. Who knows when life would end?
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Old 14th March 2013, 20:25   #146
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Analysis of fuel consumption data of my XUV-W6 over 10,000 KM


Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur-capture.jpg
## -- DIS displays a maximum mileage of 18.00 only. The figure of 20.00 was arrived at by calculations (DIS was reset to 0.0 before starting from Jamshedpur and was not reset till returning to Jamshedpur after travelling to Delhi, Amritsar, Kasauli, Delhi, Nainital, Delhi. DIS readings were taken whenever fuel tank was topped up and thus it was easy to calculate the DIS mileage over any section of the trip).


It is interesting to note that over the entire distance (about 10,000 KM) clocked by my XUV since purchasing it, the ACTUAL average mileage works out to 15.84 KMPL. This is a very reliable figure as it has been calculated over a long distance. This mileage is higher than the ARAI certified mileage of the XUV and has been achieved due to the following reasons, IMHO :
  1. About 90% of the entire distance was long distance driving.
  2. The car was lightly loaded during 60% of the entire distance.
  3. Most of the driving was done during winter (greater volumetric efficiency + greater thermodynamic efficiency + minimal use of AC compressor).
  4. My personal driving style (no rapid acceleration / deceleration, minimal use of brakes, average speed of about 80 KMPH on highways, using higher gears whenever possible).
  5. About 90% of the driving was done during daytime, i.e., headlights were used only during 10% of the entire distance.
  6. Manufacturer recommended tyre pressures were religiously maintained.

As I have shared with you earlier, even after 10,000 KM of driving, quite a considerable part of it on very bad roads, my XUV is almost niggle-free. Probably the same lucky streak extends to my fuel consumption as well!


My beautiful XUV drinks less and is therefore more environment-friendly. Wherever it goes, flowers bloom! No kidding, see for yourself.
Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur-xuv.jpg
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Old 14th March 2013, 20:49   #147
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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As a 61-year old fogey, I drive in a manner befitting my age. My average speeds on good Indian highways would be around 70 KMPH.
Hmmm. I should try that - will be real hard for me :-)


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## -- DIS displays a maximum mileage of 18.00 only. The figure of 20.00 was arrived at by calculations (DIS was reset to 0.0 before starting from Jamshedpur and was not reset till returning to Jamshedpur after travelling to Delhi, Amritsar, Kasauli, Delhi, Nainital, Delhi. DIS readings were taken whenever fuel tank was topped up and thus it was easy to calculate the DIS mileage over any section of the trip).
Interesting.
Not sure I understood this. You mean the kmpl on your MID can not go beyond 18kmpl? Why would that be? And how did you test it? Let's take the best case: You reset the MID, start coasting steadily on a highway at the most optimum speed (e.g. 70 kmph?). Now the FE will be at it's best. But the MID gets stuck at 18???
Sorry if I misunderstood.
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Old 14th March 2013, 21:27   #148
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Not sure I understood this. You mean the kmpl on your MID can not go beyond 18kmpl? Why would that be? And how did you test it? Let's take the best case: You reset the MID, start coasting steadily on a highway at the most optimum speed (e.g. 70 kmph?). Now the FE will be at it's best. But the MID gets stuck at 18???
Sorry if I misunderstood.
In the XUV, the MID indicated KMPL has a preset range of 9.0 to 18.0, i.e., it never shows a KMPL figure below 9 or above 18. Why? Search me, I've no clue!

In some cars, the MID shows the real time or instantaneous KMPL. But in XUV, it shows the AVERAGE figure from the time one resets it. This, IMHO, is a sensible and logical thing.

Let's take an illustrative example. I reset my KMPL average to 0.0 and travel 1500 KM to Delhi with 6 people, lots of luggage and 100% AC. After reaching Delhi, the MID shows 17 KMPL. Subsequently, I start my return journey from Delhi all alone in an empty car and stop using AC. The KMPL starts rising gradually and after 750 KM it reaches 18.0. When I reach home (after another 750 KM) to Jamshedpur, the KMPL is still showing 18.0 because M&M designers, in their infinite wisdom, designed it that way.

The average KMPL during the return journey from Delhi is obviously more than 18, and can be computed arithmetically.

From my personal experience with the XUV, I have the impression that though the DIS stops showing average KMPL beyond 18.0, it keeps calculating (and retaining) the actual average internally. Let me illustrate this by extending the above example. After returning to Jamshedpur my DIS was showing 18.0 KMPL. Then I start driving inside the city (where the average is expected to be in the range of 11-12 KMPL) but the DIS is stuck at 18.0. But after driving inside the city for 150 Km or so, the DIS starts falling below 18.0 KMPL. This seems to indicate that the actual average (say, 19 KMPL) is retained internally. Otherwise, the DIS indicated average of 18.0 would have started falling immediately after I started driving inside the city. Why did it wait for 150 KM before going below 18.0?

I hope I have been able to clarify the matter.

Last edited by debuda : 14th March 2013 at 21:32.
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Old 14th March 2013, 23:38   #149
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

OK.

Thanks.
I think you should report it to M&M and get it fixed. It's good for them as well if they are able to showcase that XUV can do 20kmpl under certain conditions. ANd if you think it's only a display bug, you can try OBDScope on Nokia or Torque on Android phones (connecting to the ECU via OBD2 bluetooth adapter) and check the actual FE calculated by ECU. The ELM327 adapters are around Rs. 1500 only.

I think it will be worth it.
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Old 17th March 2013, 00:14   #150
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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The average KMPL during the return journey from Delhi .....
Dear Sir

First of all allow me to complement you on the great posts you are sharing with us.

WRT fuel consumption of your XUV, I see a similar pattern with my 2005 Scorpio CRDI 2.6L engine albeit with a slightly lower overall figure.

Your figure for Jamshedpur to New Delhi is 16.5 Kmpl on outbound and 17.49 Kmpl inbound e.i. a gain of 1 Kmpl on mileage.

For last three summers my wife, daughter and I have been driving up to New Delhi (from Jamshedpur) which is our staging point for further excursion upcountry. For the sector New Delhi – Jamshedpur my mileage figures too show a gain of 1 Kmpl exactly as in your case. This is probably due to more “coasting” opportunity when inbound to JSR .

I consistently record upwards of 15kmpl during these long runs which is better than the “Under Standard Test Conditions” mileage claim of 13.5 Kmpl for the CRDI Scorpio. I attribute it to sensible driving practices similar to what you have described in your posts though my top speed is a little higher at about 90 kmph. I know it requires a lot of restraint, but I don't want to flog the ole' granny too hard nowadays. Despite this sedate speed I manage to cover about 850km/day in GQ roads

Sorry for this little off-topic post and once again a word of appreciation for your informative postings.
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