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Old 17th November 2012, 14:09   #46
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Debuda - I am enjoying this thread, you have all sorts of insights and knowledge that is interesting.

The XUV has a bit of a dual personality, folks like you and Satya who have have driven it long distances are really happy with its reliability and performance. And looking at some of the trips Satya has been doing the car really needs to be reliable in every sense of the word to successively complete those trips. Yet there are so many others who are running into issues consistently.

There are many things Mahindra got right - the car has a solidity about it, I for one think with a more elegant, less busy design this is a solid base for Mahindra to improve. But there needs to be serious improvement in their QA processes.

From my experience the only sure way to get accurate mileage is to go empty and then calculate. You need to get a feel for the system to trust it. I think most if not all petrol pumps under deliver, especially on large fills. One of my maids son works in a petrol pump and I understand the 'real income' comes from this for all the employees.

Last edited by raul : 17th November 2012 at 14:10.
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Old 17th November 2012, 14:45   #47
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

I had assumed that when DTE shows zero, the fuel tank is not really empty but has a reserve of 5 litres or so. My earlier mileage calculations were based on this assumption. However, it now seems to me that my assumption was wrong.

As I reported earlier, I started for Delhi with an almost full tank, filled 11 litres en route and reached Delhi (1350 km) with DTE showing only 12 km. Subsequently, as I started for a filling station in Delhi, the DTE dropped to zero after about 1 km and I reached the filling station after another 1 km (DTE stays at zero and does not go into negative territory!). I told the pump attendant to fill the tank to overflowing level. I had expected that around 65 litres would go in, but actually 71 litres went in! The following conclusions may be drawn from this :

[*]The filling station could be giving less fuel. But considering that it was a large HP filling station in the Nation's Capital, let us assume that they actually pumped 71 litres into my car.
[*]Probably the DTE shows the actual picture without keeping any reserve up its sleeve. In that case, my tank was probably almost empty when I reached the filling station. Apart from 70 litres in the tank, about 1 litre can come in the filling pipe.
[*]It is also possible that the tank capacity is not exactly 70 litres, but a bit more.
[*]Assuming that my tank was almost empty at the time of filling in Delhi, the revised fuel consumption works out to about 16.8 kmpl over 1350 km. This is not very different from the figure of 17.2 kmpl being shown by the car's DIS.[/list]
Another interesting thing is that even after pumping in 71 litres of fuel, the DTE is now showing 770 km. How come? Why is the DIS calculating the DTE assuming an average of only 11 kmpl? Should it not (logically) calculate it based on the latest average (17.2 kmpl)?

Dada as ususal a terrific report.

I am just a little confused about the mileage calculation and the need to make so many assumptions. In my experience the mileage calculator provided is not that accurate so really no point in trying to figure that out. I found that to be true even in my BMW 740. IMHO the best way is to go full tank to full tank, divide the distance by the amount needed to fill the tank. It gets even better if one were to keep a record each time so by the time you have half a dozen readings, you are in an excellent position to benchmark your vehicle. In fact I started this practice when I had drivers, and this was a fantastic way of keeping fuel consumption in check. Also, this simple data acts as an early warning signal for anything going wrong in the car.
I am happy my prediction (earlier post) that your FE would be high came true!!
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Old 17th November 2012, 15:02   #48
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
I believe this is to release air, right?

Debuda, I would advise against going this close as far as fuel level goes. It heats & damages the fuel pump as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You may calculate the fuel economy on tankful to tankful method with auto cut off or till the point fuel oozes out.

A bit about DTE can be read here (FAQ'a on DTE - Ford's reply)
Sheel -- Thanks a ton for the Ford FAQ on DTE. Quite informative.

Yes, the priming pump is meant to suck out air from the fuel supply pipe coming from the tank in the event of the system going dry. In my Swift VDi this was redundant because a low pressure fuel supply pump is located inside the tank itself. Even my Esteem (petrol) had a pump inside the petrol tank.

IMHO, starving the engine of fuel for a few seconds is not likely to cause any damage to the High Pressure fuel pump, electronic injectors or any other component of the fuel system. But we need to do some more research on this. Anyway, I’m not planning to experiment this on my XUV in the immediate future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TaureanBull View Post
AFAIK the DIS will calculate the DTE as per your latest running characteristics. It sounds more logical too. To elaborate further, when you move in a bumper to bumper traffic your DTE should be less. The DTE should increase when you are travelling on the highway.

It displayed a KPL of 11 based on your city driving consumption in Delhi. You can check on this and comment once you start moving on the highways.

However, point to be found out is how often the DIS analyses the data to refresh the DTE calculations.

TaureanBull – If you see the Ford FAQ on DTE (link provided by Sheel above), the Ford system uses the last 500 km average. We need to know the system logic of the Mahindra system.

BTW, since I filled 71 litres of diesel in my almost empty tank and the DTE showed 770 km, I have driven 60 km inside Delhi and my DTE is now 773 km (this is as I expected).


Very slow blackening of engine oil in the XUV

My previous car, a Swift VDi, was my first diesel vehicle after several petrol ones. In the Swift VDi the engine oil used to turn black very quickly as compared to petrol cars. This was as expected because diesel burning produces more carbon (soot) and the detergent additives in diesel engine oil are supposed to absorb that carbon and keep it in suspension.


But unlike in my Swift VDi where the engine oil used to get visibly dark in just a few hundred KM of running, my XUV oil is still almost clear / transparent after 1700 km of running. I need to study and analyze the reasons for this big difference. Is it good or bad?


Engine oil is still so clear after 1700 KM that it takes a little effort to check the dipstick level.Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur-xuv.jpg
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Old 17th November 2012, 20:28   #49
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post
TaureanBull – If you see the Ford FAQ on DTE (link provided by Sheel above), the Ford system uses the last 500 km average. We need to know the system logic of the Mahindra system.

BTW, since I filled 71 litres of diesel in my almost empty tank and the DTE showed 770 km, I have driven 60 km inside Delhi and my DTE is now 773 km (this is as I expected).

But unlike in my Swift VDi where the engine oil used to get visibly dark in just a few hundred KM of running, my XUV oil is still almost clear / transparent after 1700 km of running. I need to study and analyze the reasons for this big difference. Is it good or bad?
I went through the link provided by sheel after I posted. That was very informative. The principle is going to be same but how often the data is refreshed needs to be ascertained.

I must say the engine oil is very clear considering it to be running period and a diesel engine.
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Old 19th November 2012, 00:05   #50
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

I have posted some pictures at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ml#post2965683 (Drive in my XUV to Delhi & beyond) in the Travelogue section. I intend posting non-XUV related pics and travel tidbits there during the remaining part of my present 'driving expedition'.

I'm starting 'load trials' of my XUV tomorrow -- driving to Amritsar with 6 adults + holiday luggage (lots of warm clothing included) on board. Watch this space.
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Old 19th November 2012, 01:15   #51
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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Originally Posted by debuda View Post
Very slow blackening of engine oil in the XUV
iI need to study and analyze the reasons for this big difference. Is it good or bad?
Needless to say that it is quite good. Is the OE fill a synthetic oil?
btb,which grade is the recommended oil for the engine of XUV
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Old 19th November 2012, 02:42   #52
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Quote:
Originally Posted by debuda View Post
I had assumed that when DTE shows zero, the fuel tank is not really empty but has a reserve of 5 litres or so. My earlier mileage calculations were based on this assumption. However, it now seems to me that my assumption was wrong.

As I reported earlier, I started for Delhi with an almost full tank, filled 11 litres en route and reached Delhi (1350 km) with DTE showing only 12 km. Subsequently, as I started for a filling station in Delhi, the DTE dropped to zero after about 1 km and I reached the filling station after another 1 km (DTE stays at zero and does not go into negative territory!). I told the pump attendant to fill the tank to overflowing level. I had expected that around 65 litres would go in, but actually 71 litres went in!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Debuda, I would advise against going this close as far as fuel level goes. It heats & damages the fuel pump as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You may calculate the fuel economy on tankful to tankful method with auto cut off or till the point fuel oozes out.
I agree with Sheel. even though you are way more informed about cars and experienced than me, I would still advice you against going this far to get the accurate average fuel consumption because even I have heard a few times before that you should not let the tank go completely empty in Diesel cars as it harms the engine. don't know how far is this true but why take any chances with a brand new car costing above million bucks!

even if you get the exact readings I believe they keep on changing depending on various factors. and also the best way would be tankful to tankful with auto cut-off. I follow that method and it is usually very close to the exact readings I think. the chances of error is maybe around + or - 0.5km/l maximum and thats good enough as the readings keep on varying according to driving conditions, fuel quality and measuring at pumps, air pressure of tires & other technical aspects of the car.

also as far as DIS is concerned, since it will always be approx figure and never accurate then I believe it might not always give similar readings anyways. if this time it showed an average of 0.4km/l more than the actual average, chances are you might get even closer or farther and less or more than the actual reading next time. so it will just give us an approx reading always and I believe this is also good enough. as you are not always calculating your average through out the life time of the car, so if there is a sudden drop showing in DIS, we can get alerted and check if there is anything wrong with the engine or if there is any leakage somewhere.

and your info about the priming pump and how it is different than other cars was very informative. frankly speaking, was a bit too technical for me and I wouldn't dare anything like that but I can now be cautious and not let the tank go completely empty or drive till it runs out of gas completely!

going by the rate at which you are experimenting and learning about the car I guess in some time you will be so well informed about the car that you will not require to visit the service centre but do your own servicing and tune up!

your is undoubtedly one of the best ownership threads on XUV here. reading threads like this gives us more confidence in our cars. I hope I find time soon enough and I can plan road trips with my XUV soon. I believe mahindra has done a fantastic job with XUV. critics be damned, the ownership experience is great and I look forward to long drives and journeys in this car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
Needless to say that it is quite good. Is the OE fill a synthetic oil?
The OE engine oil is not a synthetic. its a mineral oil called mahindra maxmile crown. not aware about the grade.

Last edited by magikrider : 19th November 2012 at 02:45.
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Old 19th November 2012, 20:25   #53
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

I completely agree with Magikrider and Sheel about full tank to full tank method for calculating FE. If you maintain that data each time you fill up the tank, it throws up very interesting observations. I am attaching an excel sheet that I have maintained on my Honda City 1.5 AT since April 28, 2008. I always drive with AC at 75% of max. Two broad conclusions emerge: a) Up until Jan 2010, the FE was lower than it is today, since the car was new, and more importantly in my mind it was driven by a driver!! b) Feb 2010 onwards it has been self driven and the FE has moved up. c) Since late August 2012, we have moved to Manipal and lot of highway driving is involved, which I have not de-segregated in the data (too much headache!). This highway driving (long distance component) has also pushed up the FE. Hope this input will be of use to BHPians.
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File Type: xls Car Mileage.xls (68.0 KB, 282 views)
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Old 25th November 2012, 15:08   #54
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ODO : 3000 KM; ‘Load & Space Trials’ of the XUV

Many friends and relatives have been asking me why I bought a big 7-seater SUV when our wheels are usually used to transport only 2 people – my wife and I. If I tell them the truth, i.e., I bought the XUV simply for my driving pleasure, it may be misinterpreted. So I organized a drive with my family to prove to the world that I’m really ‘utilizing’ my big car (and to have a great time with my family and to carry out load / space trials of my new XUV).

My wife and I first drove to Delhi and met up with our elder daughter. After a couple of days, our younger daughter, son-in-law and his mother flew down from Bombay and the 6 of us drove off for our car holiday directly from Delhi airport. We spent a night at Ambala and reached Amritsar the next day. After a couple of days at Amritsar we drove up to Kasauli (altitude : 6400 feet) in Himachal Pradesh where we spent two wonderful days before returning to Delhi.

The 6 of us (with luggage) travelled together for about 1200 km in the XUV and my experience was as follows :
  1. Whether I drive the XUV with just myself on board or with self + 5 adult passengers + 60 kg luggage, there is very little perceptible difference in the way the car pulls or handles. The suspension feels better when the car is more loaded.
  2. With 6 seats occupied, the only luggage space is above the folded 7th seat. We found it somewhat inadequate for 6 people on a 5-day holiday in winter. If it hadn’t been for our woolens, we would have managed quite well but now we had no choice but to keep some of our stuff near the feet of 2nd row passengers. Though the 2nd row leg space in the XUV is excellent, keeping even small pieces of luggage there is avoidable on a long drive. The bottomline is this – if you are going for a long drive on a XUV with more than weekend luggage, either you should have max 5 passengers or you should fit a luggage carrier on top. With 5 passengers and the 3rd row seats folded down, the cargo space is quite humongous but with one 3rd row seat in use, the reduced cargo space becomes inadequate for 6 passengers.
  3. One of my daughters (small build) used the 6th seat throughout. She loved her personal little niche where she kept working on her Macbook Air or sleeping without getting elbowed by anybody. She liked her own AC vent but missed speakers in the third row. The roads throughout our holiday were quite good and she didn’t find the jerks in the third row too uncomfortable even on the few broken stretches we encountered.
  4. The XUV climbed to 6400 feet (Kasauli) with almost full load quite effortlessly. This gives me the confidence to take my XUV to higher altitudes and much steeper climbs.



One of my daughters would not let go of her 3rd row seat.
Name:  XUV 1.JPG
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You can see only 2 small suitcases and a bag here but a bigger suitcase and a larger bag are behind these and so not visible in this picture.
Name:  XUV 2.JPG
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Defects / niggles : I’ve driven my brand new XUV-W6 over 3000 km so far and frankly there is no defect worth mentioning. There is a minor squeak from somewhere near the dashboard which comes and goes. I heard a minor squeak from the suspension, maybe from the coil springs or struts, on a couple of occasions. Since I did not spend my automotive life thus far on cars like Mercedes, BMW, etc., I can take these minor squeaks in my stride. Having said that, let me add that I never ignore squeaks and rattles in any of my cars and try my best to eliminate them completely.

Brakes : I’m yet to hear any ‘grinding’ or other noise from the brakes which are working quite satisfactorily. Sometimes I find the front RHS wheel significantly warmer (not hot, mind you) than the other 3 wheels – this could be due to the front RHS brake pads not disengaging 100% from the disc. I need to keep an eye on this and physically inspect the brake pads / discs during the first service which should be quite soon (after I return to Jamshedpur from Delhi in early December). I have also observed black powder (from the brake pads) on my wheel caps – more on the front ones.

Mileage : I had reset the fuel average in the DIS before starting my trip from Jamshedpur and did not reset it thereafter. Initially (first 900 km), the average touched 18 kmpl and by the time we (only 2 of us) reached Delhi it had dropped to 17.2. After driving around in Delhi (approx 200 km) and the drive to Amritsar, Kasauli and back to Delhi (1200 km) with 6 adults plus luggage, the average indicated by DIS is now 16.4

Engine oil : After 3000 km, which includes some driving in the hills with almost full load, the oil has become slightly darker and can be easily seen on the dipstick (earlier, it was so clear that it took some effort to see the level). But it is still far from becoming black. In my Swift VDi the oil used to become black in less than 1000 km.

R.M. : My R.M. called me a couple of days back from Jamshedpur to enquire whether my car was working properly. I told her that everything was perfect.

Next drive : We returned from Kasauli to Delhi yesterday and 3 of my family members flew back to Bombay today. My wife and I plan to drive towards Nainital before attending a family wedding in Delhi on 30 Nov / 01 Dec. We should drive back to Jamshedpur thereafter.



My daughters, wife and son-in-law demonstrating the length of our XUV. One problem in travelling with my SIL was that he wouldn't let me drive! He owns a Swift VDi and was thoroughly impressed with my XUV.
Name:  XUV 3.JPG
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More pictures : Can be seen at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ml#post2971017 (Drive in my XUV to Delhi & beyond) in the Travelogue section.

Last edited by debuda : 25th November 2012 at 15:12.
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Old 26th November 2012, 00:16   #55
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Debuda, that's a double quick 3000km! It just seems yesterday that I was reading about you waiting for the car to be delivered, and here we are, you have already wrapped up Kasauli and are heading to Nainital, no detour to Leh Ladakh?

That's one hell of an itinerary. Surely the is is the kind of use case an XUV was made for. Great to see you having so much fun with the XUV!

The family look thrilled with your latest acquisition! Was there any resistance when you first shared your decision to buy it?

Last edited by raul : 26th November 2012 at 00:18.
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Old 26th November 2012, 09:54   #56
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

3000kms in month! Fantastic. You sure are putting the XUV to good use.

I just came back from a Gujarat trip with 4 adults and 2 kids on board. Completely agree with your observation that the vehicle does not feel strained when loaded and the ride actually improves with more people and luggage on board.

All the best for the next long trip!
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Old 26th November 2012, 10:51   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debuda View Post
ODO : 3000 KM; ‘Load & Space Trials’ of the XUV
Defects / niggles : I’ve driven my brand new XUV-W6 over 3000 km so far and frankly there is no defect worth mentioning.

Brakes : I have also observed black powder (from the brake pads) on my wheel caps – more on the front ones.

Mileage : I had reset the fuel average in the DIS before starting my trip from Jamshedpur and did not reset it thereafter. Initially (first 900 km), the average touched 18 kmpl and by the time we (only 2 of us) reached Delhi it had dropped to 17.2. After driving around in Delhi (approx 200 km) and the drive to Amritsar, Kasauli and back to Delhi (1200 km) with 6 adults plus luggage, the average indicated by DIS is now 16.4

R.M. : My R.M. called me a couple of days back from Jamshedpur to enquire whether my car was working properly. I told her that everything was perfect.

One problem in travelling with my SIL was that he wouldn't let me drive! He owns a Swift VDi and was thoroughly impressed with my XUV.[/b]
Attachment 1018099
1. I was waiting for the loads and trials part as I knew it was coming. But I guess the passengers were quite conservative with packing else it would have been a problem. Rightly said, for long drives max five passengers.

2. Black powder? Could it be because of some moisture drying out?

3. Thats a terrific mileage for such a monster in fully loaded condition.

4. Your niggle free experience and *** has impressed me. Mahindra is working. The diligence of RM is really appreciable.

5. Hmmm...now he being greedy! I would feel the same I have to travel in my vehicle as a passenger.
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Old 26th November 2012, 19:45   #58
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

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The family look thrilled with your latest acquisition! Was there any resistance when you first shared your decision to buy it?
Raul -- Thankfully, there was no resistance to my decision. Actually, for my wife it was 'love at first sight' when she saw a silver XUV in the showroom!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaureanBull View Post
Black powder? Could it be because of some moisture drying out?
The black powder results because of wear of the brake pads due to friction with the brake discs. The pads are softer than the discs and are designed to wear out. But the quantity of wear debris (black powder) from my front wheels is worrying me a bit, especially because my use of brakes is minimal. I'm observing this closely and will continue to share my findings.

This morning my wife and I drove down to Kashipur (near Jim Corbett Park) in Uttarakhand. There is a new IIM in Kashipur and an old friend of mine is its Director. We are enjoying his hospitality.
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Old 26th November 2012, 21:14   #59
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Default Re: Debuda’s Silver Mahindra XUV500 W6 @ Jamshedpur

Debuda great report as usual. Recently on the XUV niggles thread someone mentioned loss of power when going from 2nd to 3rd while climbing up to Ooty. Did you experience anything like that on the climb to Kasauli?
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Old 26th November 2012, 22:35   #60
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Would be grateful if you can post pictures of the music system of W6 and the fabric seats ?
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