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Old 10th October 2013, 16:49   #571
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post

The Red Rocket now sports Interior 'neon' LEDs in the footwell.
with all that RED, you should stop calling it the Red Rocket and call it the Red Devil (Trademark pending and all)!
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Old 10th October 2013, 16:57   #572
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
with all that RED, you should stop calling it the Red Rocket and call it the Red Devil (Trademark pending and all)!
Or there is a better name for it RLA (Red Li**t Ar*a)

Karthik, On a serious note, how is the driving experience till now? Any issues or things noticed that you might want to share.
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Old 10th October 2013, 17:31   #573
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
Oh! they overwrite the original mapping!
Er.. not really. They keep a backup of the stock map file in some spare memory in the ECU, and will modify a copy of it according to your requirements. They will make this modified map file as the main one in use (by the ECU). Your stock map is always available on backup (even TOT keeps a copy of it on their system just in case) and at any point in time, you can ask them to revert it to the stock map, say before going in for a major service just in case you want them not to detect by driving your 'more powerful' car.

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My idea was to actually install a Pete's box and remove it while I give my car for service, thereby, maintaining my warranty.

But good information you gave me on Pete's. I didn't know Pete's actually customize remaps. Their website also does not maintain this (unless I missed it). My aim is to get my Swift to 100bhp. They already have a box good for 92 bhp. Hope they add 8 more bhp to it!
These are two different things here. One way to extract more performance is to add a tuning box. Tuning box codes are usually burnt/flashed in once for a particular car (say in your case Swift) and the boxes (car specific) are sold as mass-manufactured retail items with a MRP at accessory shops. Pete's tuning box for Swift will be one such item, so is DieselTronic by RaceDynamics. I believe this is what you are referring to. There are instances where a tuner can modify the piggyback tuning box code if the customer is seriously unhappy with some modes' performance, but typically this is not the case. The boxes are designed to be made one-time for particular models, and customers will just use them as is. In principle, a tuning box will sit in-between the rail pressure sensor and the ECU, and merely modify sensor values being fed into the ECU, and fool it into making the car perform more aggressively than it should by pumping in extra fuel.

The second way - a remap is a more customized service where the tuner sits and tunes the overall ECU map itself directly, completely according to your requirement and what kind of driveability you are looking for. It is also reversible and modifiable as many times as you want. You could probably go through some threads here on team-bhp which discuss a lot on each of these techniques and then narrow down on which one you prefer. A lot of people stay away from remaps because it can *potentially* be detectable during some warranty claims / investigations. In reality though, a bench flash will not be detected unless the whole map file is dissected and analyzed by the service centre, which is a very rare possibility here at our local service centres, given their competency or patience levels. A remap is also the better way to go in terms of overall longevity of all the components. A tuning box (from whatever I know) will just modify a few particular sensor's values and in the long run end up stressing those particular components a lot, for eg. the fuel pump.

Tuning gurus, please feel free to correct my statements if I went wrong anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
with all that RED, you should stop calling it the Red Rocket and call it the Red Devil (Trademark pending and all)!
Tthere's a night-time photoshoot pending. I have some photoshoot-specific decorative orange Neon tubes with me, around 3m in length *lol*. Will do up the dashboard and then we will call it the Red Devil, what say?? *winks*

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
Or there is a better name for it RLA (Red Li**t Ar*a)

Karthik, On a serious note, how is the driving experience till now? Any issues or things noticed that you might want to share.
The driving experience has been wonderful. I'm thoroughly impressed by the improved driveability and insane acceleration now. Vivek had asked me to call them and let them know in case I want anything modified. I for one need nothing changed right now. This pro-acceleration map is perfect.

Dyno runs and VBox runs are pending for this weekend, with Vivek. I'll let you know when I go to RRP since you also wanted to come for this

Last edited by KarthikK : 10th October 2013 at 18:00.
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Old 11th October 2013, 08:29   #574
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Smile re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

Karthik,

I guess the Red devil aka Rocket now needs a Red beacon on the top to complete the pictures. We all know the people sitting in the red beaconed cars are the real devils isnt it?

IMHO, I feel instead of red light, you should have opted for some soothing colours inside like white light. The Red on the exteriors defines the car, but sitting inside and in B'lore traffic might make you red. Oh so many reds, cant handle them man.
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Old 11th October 2013, 08:51   #575
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Karthik,

I guess the Red devil aka Rocket now needs a Red beacon on the top to complete the pictures. We all know the people sitting in the red beaconed cars are the real devils isnt it?
That might help reduce my office commute time too, hehe.

Quote:
IMHO, I feel instead of red light, you should have opted for some soothing colours inside like white light. The Red on the exteriors defines the car, but sitting inside and in B'lore traffic might make you red. Oh so many reds, cant handle them man.
Haha. I did think of white, but that color comes with one disadvantage. When the mats are dirty, white light will make things *very* visible and accentuate the dirty look. Red somewhat blurs out that effect, yet adds a glow which is hard to ignore. In hindsight, yellow or orange would have been good too, but I decided to complete it with the Red theme itself *winks*

Oh no, it won't come on in Bangalore traffic . It won't ever come on when I'm inside and on the move. These lights will only activate when the car is unlocked and a door is opened. When the doors are closed or key is inserted, they will again dim out with the rooflamp and go out. The LEDs are coupled to the second setting of the rooflamp (dimming effect ON/OFF on door open).

Last edited by KarthikK : 11th October 2013 at 09:06.
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Old 12th October 2013, 00:53   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Er.. not really. They keep a backup of the stock map file in some spare memory in the ECU, and will modify a copy of it according to your requirements. They will make this modified map file as the main one in use (by the ECU). Your stock map is always available on backup (even TOT keeps a copy of it on their system just in case) and at any point in time, you can ask them to revert it to the stock map
My understanding was that the stock map was stored on their system. Remember he asked for your name and car number after the map was imported to their system.

Can you confirm?
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Old 12th October 2013, 07:06   #577
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
My understanding was that the stock map was stored on their system. Remember he asked for your name and car number after the map was imported to their system.

Can you confirm?
Yes, this is what I too remember for my conversation with TT. They will store a copy of the stock map on their laptop.
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Old 12th October 2013, 08:00   #578
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Yes, this is what I too remember for my conversation with TT. They will store a copy of the stock map on their laptop.
The Stock Map for any car, say Punto 90 in this case,wont it be same for all the stock Punto 90 HP's?,then why do they need to store a copy of every individual car's stock Map.
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Old 12th October 2013, 08:30   #579
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

Update on the Dyno runs and VBox tests: Siddharth and Vivek were both busy this weekend and have promised to make some time for me the next weekend. I'll be pushing the dyno session and Vbox test session ahead by another week. Apologies for the delay.

Here's what's in store for next week: Stock v/s Remap v/s RaceDynamics DieselTronic comparos: full dyno results with actual numbers, vbox runs with all 3 versions of the MultiJet VGT, plus a head-to-head comparo
report in a separate thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
My understanding was that the stock map was stored on their system. Remember he asked for your name and car number after the map was imported to their system.

Can you confirm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Yes, this is what I too remember for my conversation with TT. They will store a copy of the stock map on their laptop.
They will store a copy of the stock map file on their laptop as well as in some spare memory on the ECU itself. Effectively two backup sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
The Stock Map for any car, say Punto 90 in this case,wont it be same for all the stock Punto 90 HP's?,then why do they need to store a copy of every individual car's stock Map.
Usually when person X walks in to their office and gets a remap done, they create a folder named after the person and his car's registration number. Thereafter, whatever changes are requested by that customer (say once for more economy, once for more low end torque, once for more top speed) are stored as those respective map files under the same folder. For the customer's satisfaction, they just store the stock map also in that folder .

If they don't do this, finicky customers will probably object and say "hey you're not keeping a backup of my car's stock file in my folder. What if....??" . Anyway multiple copies of the same map is no big deal since the map file is hardly a few kilobytes in size, maybe lesser. Good question nonetheless. I should ask TOT why they keep multiple copies for the same car.

Last edited by KarthikK : 12th October 2013 at 08:57.
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Old 12th October 2013, 12:26   #580
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
The Stock Map for any car, say Punto 90 in this case,wont it be same for all the stock Punto 90 HP's?,then why do they need to store a copy of every individual car's stock Map.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
UGood question nonetheless. I should ask TOT why they keep multiple copies for the same car.
From my limited knowledge the stock maps are identical, they are not same. the ECU learns the driving style and adjust few parameters accordingly.

So stock maps may be identical but not same.
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Old 12th October 2013, 13:19   #581
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Originally Posted by F150 View Post

From my limited knowledge the stock maps are identical, they are not same. the ECU learns the driving style and adjust few parameters accordingly.

So stock maps may be identical but not same.
Correct. But even then it does not make sense to store the stock map of every car of same make. Anyway the ECU re learns within 50 kms of driving.

Like Karthik said it's for those who are finicky or the lesser knowledgeable folks. I would prefer to keep the stock map along with me on a CD or pen drive
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Old 12th October 2013, 14:07   #582
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

It is probably wise to store each car's original maps. Manufacturers are known to incorporate slipstream changes and updates to both hardware and software (mechanicals and ECU programming).
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Old 12th October 2013, 15:03   #583
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It is probably wise to store each car's original maps. Manufacturers are known to incorporate slipstream changes and updates to both hardware and software (mechanicals and ECU programming).
Thanks did not know this. In that case I would prefer to have the original map with me rather than on the disk of some others laptop.
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Old 12th October 2013, 16:40   #584
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

The stock map of every car coming from the same manufacturer should be same, provided they carry the same version. For example all Jan 2012 to June 2012 Puntos will carry the same stock map and later if Fiat has made changes, the next batch may carry a slightly altered map. The changes may have been made by the manufacturer to account for some changes in hardware or design of the car or based on feedback they get from time to time. It is for this reason that tuners would like to save the stock map for each car as it may be different depending on the year of production.

Tuners tune the stock map into a customised map for each car, as the car they are tuning is unique once it is on the road and has seen some mileage. They check the condition of the car and the condition of all its critical components and then decide the map parameters, based on the customer's specific requirements.

This is what I understand. Experts may correct me if I am wrong .

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 12th October 2013 at 16:49.
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Old 12th October 2013, 17:00   #585
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Default re: The Red Rocket - Fiat Grande Punto Sport. *UPDATE* 114 BHP & 250 Nm by Tune-O-Tronics

Let us not hi-jack Karthik's thread. Since Santosh and Karthik have got the remap done very recently, either of them can directly speak with the folks at Tune O Tronics.

Back to original topic, the hot hatch
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