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Old 18th November 2012, 17:11   #1
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Default 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

Hey guys,

Please find a short ownership review on our 2011 Toyota Liva GD.

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What I Like:
- Engine: Frugal, minimal turbo lag, easy to drive, peppy
- Easy to Drive
- Space
- Surprisingly decent handling
- Superb Brakes!!! ABS Standard
- Effective AC

Neutral Towards:
- City Ride Quality
- Speedometer in the center - though is a sore point for many!
- Toyota After Sales: Shinrai Toyota Mumbai Service was quite decent! Could be better though.

What I Don't Like:
- Cost cutting
- Low Market Interiors
- Flimsy Body
- High Speed Ride Quality
- Shinrai Toyota Mumbai Sales

Background & Delivery:
Around October 2011, we felt the need for a small hatch which would used by dads office, and occasionally by us when we needed it.
The requirements were a reliable car, that is easy to drive, spacious to ferry people around, diesel, and easy to drive (light controls basically). Cost was important as well, and we didn't see the need to spend too much on the same.

Keeping this in mind, I narrowed down the choices to:
- Figo: As a VFM, self drive hatch - nothing beats this. However, since it would be mainly ferrying people around, I needed more space and rear power windows!
- i20: Loved it! However, for the ABS equipped model, I would have had to shell out considerably more (nearly 8-9L OTR for company reg), and was not too comfortable in the back.
- Etios Liva: Didn't give it much thought then. Liked the space, and was ok with the interiors.
- Vista: First Choice for me, but dad didn't want a Tata as they aren't easy to drive, and there already is a brand new Indigo CS (bought around the same time), and a Manza at office.

Finally, we shortlisted the Liva, and booked the Liva GD (without Airbags - didn't want to risk it as one doesn't know if passengers are wearing seat belts when being ferried by a driver or someone else). The delivery process was smooth and quick for most part, and the car was delivered during the first week of November (1.5 week booking to delivery).
However, the one sore point that marred the delivery experience was the Accessories Package.
As the billing was done by the company, no one realized that there was an added Rs. 10,000 accessories package included in the overall cost. While it is our fault, I personally feel it is incorrect on Shinrai's part for including that in the overall cost as it was unwanted and unrequested for.
What makes it worse is that we are still to receive some of the accessories such as the red gear knob. There was also an issue regarding the underbody coating, making us run around trying to get the Warranty card. I had several conversations with the Sales Person regarding the same but have given up.

Around that time, the fiesta was being used for odd chores at work as well, and it was decided to keep the fiesta at office, while the Liva would be coming home to us, as we too needed a smaller car as the Octavia was becoming a little of a handful to drive and park, thanks to ever increasing traffic and, it was easier on the pocket and mind to send a smaller car for home chores.
Unfortunately, this happened after the car was booked, otherwise there might have been a Figo/i20 review in its place instead.

The total landed cost of the car was around Rs. 6.6L IIRC.

Last edited by lamborghini : 18th November 2012 at 20:43.
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Old 18th November 2012, 19:35   #2
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Now, coming to the car:

Exteriors & Interiors

Lets be honest. The car doesn't look all that bad, though not great either.
Similarly, Build Quality is not its forte, and the metal used seems quite flimsy. Incidentally, the only one dent on the car is from when my driver (a heavyset old chap) was leaning against the front right fender. I was quite shocked when I heard about the incident, and am naturally a little worried. While there is a good possibility the car might have been designed such a way from a safety point of view (similar to the NHC), coming from an all European household (Fiesta, Octavia, etc.), I wasn't quite pleased.

That aside, the panel gaps are even all across, and the paint quality isn't poor either. Cost cutting is evident with only one reverse light, lack of a rear defogger and rear wash/wipe, and one wiper (as effective as it is). However, thankfully Toyota didn't reduce costs by bringing in skinnier tyres.

The story continues on the inside, which is quite a simple layout barring the speedometer in the center, which turned quite a few off.
That plus, the low quality plastics on the dash, coupled with the staid looks are probably half the reason why the car hasn't been the success story that it should have been.
Every panel you touch is made up of cheap hard plastic, barring the switches for the headlight and wiper. This is a car that I feel will have a few rattles as it starts to age.
In fact, the left dashboard speaker cover started coming loose within days of taking delivery.

We fitted an after market Pioneer HU in the car (one of the base models with MP3 and Aux-In), and that it self was a little hard, as the center consoles plastic was very thin, and fitting it back perfectly wasn't as easy. In fact, one side is still slightly lose.
Would like to hear other members experience regarding this. Could be my ICE guy, but he is well reputed on the forum.
Sound quality from the stock speakers is ok. Nothing to complain about, except that it might have been better if 2 speakers were placed in the rear doors instead of all 4 being placed in the front doors and dash.

On the same note, I wasn't a big fan of the fabric used on the seats, and noticed that my back would be a little damp by the time I reached my destination.
Similarly, some of the dials, especially the headlight leveling, and the one to open the bonnet are quite crude in design, but work surprisingly well.
The less said about the power window switches, the better. Very crude, and not comfortable to use.

However, the biggest advantage the Etios offers you in terms of design and interiors is its practicality! The interiors have a huge glovebox, lots of cubby holes for storage, adequate door pockets on the front seat, and dials that are within easy reach.
There is a lot of space, and as a 6'2" driver, who likes to recline his seat, there are no complaints from the back benchers. Similarly, those odd days when I am not driving, i can push the passenger seat all the way ahead, and sit comfortably like a seth with my left foot crossed over my right knee!

An interesting observation though is that the rear seat is flat, as the floor hump is quite small. On a recent test drive given to my friends father, he pointed out how this arrangement is so much more comfortable on those long trips with 3 people in the back.
However, back benchers will miss an armrest.

Engine & Performance:

Fire the engine up, and you would know you are sitting in a diesel.
However, it honestly isn't that bad. Sure, it does sound a little utilitarian and not as refined as some of the other diesels, but somehow, its got a very reassuring note to it as you start driving off - maybe not evident at first, but as you use it more, you start liking it.

Coming from the fiesta, the first thing I noticed was that the clutch was superb light! Gears slotted well - though not slick, and off we went. Minimal turbo lag, and the car was happy pottering about town.
Even after 10K km, the engine has opened up considerably well, and with the AC off, is quite a joy to use.
It's peppy, has minimal turbo lag, and can do some decent speeds! While it won't win any races, it definitely won't give you any reason to complain. Thanks to the added cylinder and a 200cc, this engine is a lot more relaxed and easier to live with than many of the other hatches that come with 1.2L and 1.3L engines. The i20 CRDi though, would blow the car away in this department.

The best part is when you go to the fuel station and and walk away with money still in your wallet! The car is very frugal!
Living in Mumbai, doing short runs, and in some very traffic prone areas, the car surprised me with a FE of 15.75kmpl.
While this might seem on the low side for most, in contrast, our Fiesta gives us 13.5kmpl with the same usage.

The Driving Experience:

The first time I drove it, I was amazed at how easy it was to drive. That is a feeling that hasn't changed throughout the year.
Even with fancier cars at home, this would still be the car I would look forward to drive to work.
A super light steering, light controls, and great visibility! Perfect for the city! The above average handling was an added bonus, as well as the pliant city ride which was better than many popular hatches. As shocking as it is, this was a car I actually enjoyed to drive in the city, zipping through traffic, as well as on slightly open roads with soft curves. The superb brakes only add to the comfort levels in the city. However, one should be careful of the blindspot created by the large A pillars.

Those rare times that I went into triple digit territory, I was decently pleased with its stability, and the steering was quite stable. However, these were under ideal conditions, on straight and superb roads. I cannot comment for the odd rainy day with high speed winds. What I can though, is the high speed ride quality, which I am not at all comfortable with. While other hatches might offer similar ride, I personally am not a big fan of the way the car bounces over above average undulations at speeds of 60kmph or higher. I am sure the Figo and Vista should handle it better, but cannot comment on the others.



So, Would I Buy it Again?

To be honest, today the new i20 makes a superb case for itself. Similarly, so does the Figo.
Depending on what my budget it, and my priorities are, I might find myself going for one of those.
However, if my needs remained the same, there is no doubt I would give the Liva a hard look! A car that is spacious, peppy, easy to drive, practical and should be low maintenance and reliable. It may not have the best features, or the best interiors, but at its price point, it surely makes a case for the chauffeur driven who need a city car.

Unfortunately, this car is no longer with us. Due to a recent spike in the running of the Fiesta, the company felt it would be better to do those runs in a newer car as opposed to the 95,000km run fiesta. That coupled with the fact that finding a 24/7 driver in Mumbai is hard, and that dad might have to drive on his own once in a while, the thought of a diesel auto crossed his mind. These reasons combined, resulted in the Liva going back to the company for its intended purpose, taking a swap with the Fiesta, as well as the entrant of a new comer: The Skoda Laura DSG.

Last edited by lamborghini : 19th November 2012 at 01:24.
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Old 20th November 2012, 13:13   #3
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Initial Ownership Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 20th November 2012, 15:17   #4
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Very very unbiased review indeed. Agreed with most of the part, except for the point below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
What I can though, is the high speed ride quality, which I am not at all comfortable with. While other hatches might offer similar ride, I personally am not a big fan of the way the car bounces over above average undulations at speeds of 60kmph or higher.
Can some other Liva owner or who has driven it extensively please comment if Liva is bouncy/unstable as early as 60+ km/hr? I might have missed it during my testdrive, as I found it quite stable on rough highway patches at that speed. Could not try though at 80+ speed.
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Old 20th November 2012, 15:35   #5
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

Congratulations, Figo and Liva both are wonderfully well suited to be city runaround.

She aint a head turner, agreed, but looks decent. So please do some justice to the car by posting some more pictures , the current picture is like one in the crowd does not make one feel you were actually intending to focus on her (there goes my two smileys)

Somehow i missed the update about the Car going back to the company. So understandably you might not be in a position to post a lot of pictures.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 20th November 2012 at 15:44.
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Old 20th November 2012, 15:40   #6
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

A very comprehensive ownership review.

The end was very unexpected! Never thought that you were writing a review for a sold car.

Any comments on the KPL of the vehicle city/highway?
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Old 20th November 2012, 16:50   #7
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

Observations with the Liva are spot on. The ride and handling neutral, does most things right, nothing extravagent. Its like jack of all arts, master of none.

If only Toyota managed to give it an upmarket interiors, the car would have been doing a lot better numbers than its currently doing.

Thanks for sharing the review.
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Old 20th November 2012, 23:42   #8
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaureanBull View Post
A very comprehensive ownership review.

The end was very unexpected! Never thought that you were writing a review for a sold car.

Any comments on the KPL of the vehicle city/highway?
Thank you sir!

In the city, I used to get 15-16kmpl with decent driving. Not too slow, not too fast. Keep in mind that we are no mileage kings at home. Heck petrol fiesta 1.6's were giving similar FE to our TDCi!
Never took the car on the highway for long distances. Purely city runner unless you count the Mumbai WEH and EEH as proper highways. Wouldn't be surprised with 20+ easy at a cruising speed of 80-100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Congratulations, Figo and Liva both are wonderfully well suited to be city runaround.

She aint a head turner, agreed, but looks decent. So please do some justice to the car by posting some more pictures , the current picture is like one in the crowd does not make one feel you were actually intending to focus on her (there goes my two smileys)

Somehow i missed the update about the Car going back to the company. So understandably you might not be in a position to post a lot of pictures.
Sorry sir!
I had many pictures, until my puppy chewed my phone. Destroying all the pics. I do have pics of the destroyed phone though, if that would be of interest.

However, if I see the car, I will surely post more pics. From what I have heard, the car has already gotten a dent from a biker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sups View Post
Very very unbiased review indeed. Agreed with most of the part, except for the point below:

Can some other Liva owner or who has driven it extensively please comment if Liva is bouncy/unstable as early as 60+ km/hr? I might have missed it during my testdrive, as I found it quite stable on rough highway patches at that speed. Could not try though at 80+ speed.
As I mentioned sir, the ride at slightly higher speeds is purely my opinion coming from a Fiesta. I would expect the Figo to possess a similar ride as the Fiesta. The fiesta is firm at low speeds passing on all irregularities, but the Liva is more comfortable at those speeds. However, the way the car bumps over some undulations (not slightly potholed, but more where the road slightly dips down, or raises up unexpectedly) such as the ones on Marine Drive, is really discomforting.
However, I repeat, this is not in comparison with other hatches. I am sure the i10/old Swift and such will be worse, though others like the Polo and Figo might be better at high speed ride quality keeping the undulations in mind.
An interesting read perhaps?:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...bad-roads.html (Hatchback with the best ride quality on bad roads?)

On another note, I had all these interesting plans of slowly doing the car up.
Small stuff such as wider tyres on nice multi-spoke black alloys. Fog Lights in the front. Maybe a tuning kit and a rear spoiler. Oh well, maybe its time to focus on the new car

Last edited by lamborghini : 21st November 2012 at 00:06.
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Old 21st November 2012, 01:12   #9
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by sups View Post
Can some other Liva owner or who has driven it extensively please comment if Liva is bouncy/unstable as early as 60+ km/hr? I might have missed it during my testdrive, as I found it quite stable on rough highway patches at that speed. Could not try though at 80+ speed.
Liva is not at all bouncy/unstable at 60+ km/hr. On the contrary it's unexpectedly stable and well planted even at 100 km/hr. That's my observation with 4k+ km experience with this car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Observations with the Liva are spot on. The ride and handling neutral, does most things right, nothing extravagent. Its like jack of all arts, master of none.

If only Toyota managed to give it an upmarket interiors, the car would have been doing a lot better numbers than its currently doing.

Thanks for sharing the review.
I think your observations are right. Liva is not a show-off. It does all its things just right.

That's what I think is needed unless I need a racing car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Thank you sir!

In the city, I used to get 15-16kmpl with decent driving. Not too slow, not too fast. Keep in mind that we are no mileage kings at home. Heck petrol fiesta 1.6's were giving similar FE to our TDCi!
A bit low mileage I would say what you got from your car. After the first 2000 km, my Liva is constantly giving me 18+ km/l, that too in Kolkata traffic which is worse than most other cities in India.
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Old 21st November 2012, 01:41   #10
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
Liva is not at all bouncy/unstable at 60+ km/hr. On the contrary it's unexpectedly stable and well planted even at 100 km/hr. That's my observation with 4k+ km experience with this car.
Its not bad at all, but what Lamborghini forgot to mention is that when he used the Liva his daily ride was a W211 E270. And after that I'm not surprised he found it bouncy.
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Old 21st November 2012, 08:19   #11
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
As I mentioned sir, the ride at slightly higher speeds is purely my opinion coming from a Fiesta. I would expect the Figo to possess a similar ride as the Fiesta. The fiesta is firm at low speeds passing on all irregularities, but the Liva is more comfortable at those speeds. However, the way the car bumps over some undulations (not slightly potholed, but more where the road slightly dips down, or raises up unexpectedly) such as the ones on Marine Drive, is really discomforting.
However, I repeat, this is not in comparison with other hatches. I am sure the i10/old Swift and such will be worse, though others like the Polo and Figo might be better at high speed ride quality keeping the undulations in mind.
Thanks again Lamborghini. I now understand the point of discomfort on sudden dips and sudden ups.

To be sure again, yesterday, I called Ford SE to bring a Figo to my office for a test drive. He came with a brand new 1100 km run newly facelifted figo. My previous perception remains same. Its a joy to drive with that steering. The new figo has better pickup. However, seating at the back, where my family will be spending most of the time, is not as good an experience. As you mentioned earlier, Figo should be bought if one spends most of the time at the drivers seat. Even though I need not change lane, with figo's steering in my hand, I always tend to take a sudden lane change. Its so much fun.

Then I immediately called up toyota SE to bring a liva again. This time I drove it like crazy for 20 odd minutes on the over bridges where there were sudden dips. Unfortunately, I could no go beyond 80 km/hr due to traffic. With the window open and AC off, I could not hear the "clanky" suspension noise except for a very muted thud on big dips, and it was well composed. This was a quite new test drive vehicle. The SE explained that due to complaints of suspension noise, post July 2012 manufactured cars has undergone some suspension correction. I wish it is true. And then again seating at the back is such a good experience. Its a nice all rounder car, except for the interiors.

Thanks again for sharing. The verdict is simple. For a true drivers car, go for a figo. And for a spacious family car in city, its all the way liva. Since my priority is the later as of now, I booked a Liva GD with fog lamps.
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Old 21st November 2012, 10:04   #12
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Etios Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000kms

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With the window open and AC off, I could not hear the "clanky" suspension noise except for a very muted thud on big dips, and it was well composed. This was a quite new test drive vehicle. The SE explained that due to complaints of suspension noise, post July 2012 manufactured cars has undergone some suspension correction. I wish it is true. And then again seating at the back is such a good experience. Its a nice all rounder car, except for the interiors.

Thanks again for sharing. The verdict is simple. For a true drivers car, go for a figo. And for a spacious family car in city, its all the way liva. Since my priority is the later as of now, I booked a Liva GD with fog lamps.
Topsel Toyota in Kolkata is also claiming that Liva has gone through some sort of suspension correction resulting in lessening of the loud "thud" sound which we used to hear earlier on big dips. Unfortunately, the car I got was June-make and I have to live with the "thud" in my car. :(

I am not too sure whether Figo is a better drive than Liva. I found both almost the same, like a technical tie in a boxing match. Liva has a harder clutch, while IMO Figo gear shifts are not as smooth as Liva. I would judge Liva as the winner as with a better GC it has almost no issues with scraping the underbelly of the car on huge bumps.
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Old 22nd November 2012, 13:47   #13
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

With just about 3000 kms on my Liva GD SP, I can vouch for the plaint ride at speeds above 40 km/hr. The suspension if as most of you have mentioned here has been tuned up post June/July (mine is end of July 2012) I have not had such a muted experience. I get to hear loud thuds on bad roads (even after a 3M underbody treatment) and it is bit bouncy on low speeds. With some playing around with the tyre pressure I have now settled for a good ride at all the Pune speeds possible.

Yet to get time to go and strech her legs on the expressway or any other long drive. So no inputs on that side. I am getting 17-18 kms/lit in Pune traffic with 100% AC on. Easily run 700 kms to a tankfull.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 10:02   #14
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

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With just about 3000 kms on my Liva GD SP, I can vouch for the plaint ride at speeds above 40 km/hr. The suspension if as most of you have mentioned here has been tuned up post June/July (mine is end of July 2012) I have not had such a muted experience. I get to hear loud thuds on bad roads (even after a 3M underbody treatment) and it is bit bouncy on low speeds. With some playing around with the tyre pressure I have now settled for a good ride at all the Pune speeds possible.
Please share with us the tyre pressures that you are using for a comf0rtable ride.

Regarding loud thuds on bad roads, can you please mention when exactly you are getting it?
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Old 23rd November 2012, 10:55   #15
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Default Re: 2011 Toyota Liva Diesel: 1 Year & 10,000 kms

Quote:
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Please share with us the tyre pressures that you are using for a comf0rtable ride.

Regarding loud thuds on bad roads, can you please mention when exactly you are getting it?
I use 33 in the front and 30 in the rear tyres. Find the ride comfortable. This is 1 point more than what is prescribed. Would like to hear from @the-rare-one on this aspect. Post 2500 km the mileage in my Liva GD has settled to a nice 18+ km/l in Kolkata roads. I topped up fuel tank yesterday and the mileage figure came to 18.2. But this is with AC on for about 70% of the time. With temperature getting comfortable in Kolkata, I don't need AC in the evenings.

The 'thud' sound is there in my car too. It happens whenever the car hits a bumper or a pothole at high speed. A sound of something hitting something. Probably the sound of the recoil of the shock-absorbers. Seems to be present in all Etios cars. I have got used to it by now.
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