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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:02   #76
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Great review.
Second time a percieved premium car maker (in India) attempting at the entry level sedan segment. From the looks of it, this does seem better than the Etios. Atleast looks better put together and seems more premium. What further impresses me is, the diesel engine reportedly churns out 100 BHp. Assuming the car to weigh maximum as much as the dzire, this would be having a great Power to weight ratio wrt entry level sedan standards.

More spacious and slightly more premium than the Dzire would mean that the days of long waiting for the Maruti might just become a thing of past if priced right. Finally a Dzire beater as this would be as reliable as the Maruti, more premium, has better driveability and better power to weight ratio (hence assuming faster too). Just keeping fingers crossed on the pricing though.

Come on Honda get the I-DTEC into the City too and there wont be any stopping. You will be back on the top in the segment.

Past few years we have seen a significant rise in the sales of cars around 6-8 Lakhs. 8-10 Lakh segment is begining to see a boom now. Get the diesel City and the MUV to ride on the wave.

All the best Honda!
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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:08   #77
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Seeing the Thai prices, I fear the Amaze Diesel price will start around 8L in India, which will surely put it into C2 segment. DZire will be spared then, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Where will they position City then (when the diesel launches)? :-) Also its mentioned in many posts that the localization extent will be to the tune of 90% or above. So I expect the price to start atleast around 6.75L
My guess is that the ex-showroom prices will start just above that of the Brio V-AT's OTR price. That is around 7.5 lakhs. It will be higher still if Honda decides to bring the Brio diesel later next year, just so that the Brio diesel gets some breathing room between the petrol hatch and the petrol / diesel Amaze. Pricing is key, but I have a feeling that it will a good 50k more than what people will want it to be.

The City will remain where it is. I suspect the diesel Amaze and the petrol City's prices will overlap. But there will be a clear distinction between the diesel Amaze and diesel City's prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
How I wish they would plonk this mill in the Jazz. Or a 1.5L petrol mill. Or an auto tranny. Do something for the Jazz, Honda!
Fat chance. :( In fact, there are rumors floating around that the Jazz may be discontinued altogether. I'd understand why, given that there is almost no room for it, now with the Amaze petrol / diesel filling in the gap between the Brio and the City.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Considering its being targetted against the Dzire (shudder!!) and the Etios, it does not have to do too much in terms of design, does it?! In my opinion the Dzire is a benchmark neither for aesthetics nor for space. The only benchmarks I see there are mileage and sales numbers, cannot argue with that.
Agreed. People will look past the design if it's a competent product and reasonably VFM.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 23rd November 2012 at 18:10.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:11   #78
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

I may be OT here! Many people are predicting the end of Dzire's dominance. I am doubtful about that. Sure Amaze would sell some good numbers but I dont think it would be anywhere near Dzire. I don't think car buyer's obsession with Maruti Small Cars generally and Swift/Dzire in particular are about to end. We will always find some reason to continue buying Dzire. If buying is based on objective evaluations and not on perceptions, I don't think some of Maruti's cars should outsell competitors the way they do! I would cite Figo (which is considered a VFM car) which sells about 1/4th of Swift as an example
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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:42   #79
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Thank You Vidyut for the concise review. Probably this is best one could do in a restricted environment.

The car (Petrol model) has been launched in Thailand with specs as 1.2L, 99bhp power, 110Nm torque. It, as common with all Honda cars, is loaded with safety features for all models. Another important thing is the 400 liters boot, which is even bigger than the Indigo eCS (which is 380 liters, i believe). Moreover the looks are much better (proportionate) over compact sedans, & in fact, it looks looks a proper sedan IMO.

This compact sedan is much better over most normal (> 4 m) sedans as many of them manage around 450 liters boot only, & at best can seat 2 at the back courtesy the non-flat floor & prominent hump in the middle, which can make your friend turn your enemy. Almost all competitors have to be careful for this car has the capability to annihilate most things competition offers in the Indian market.

Here is the link to Thai brochure:

http://honda.co.th/download/brioamaz..._catalogue.pdf

Personally, I would like to have the petrol version launched simultaneously, but, the diesel preceding the petrol will be a booster to Indian customers confidence in Honda diesels.

Good Luck Honda... keep us AMAZEing .

PS: I believe they can price the petrol from Rs.5.25-6.5 Lacs & the diesel from Rs.6.75-Rs.8 Lacs, & the car should sell well for these prices.

Last edited by CARDEEP : 23rd November 2012 at 18:46.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:44   #80
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Finally,
a look at the actual Amaze.
And it does look much better than what initial partial shots would have me believe. It really doesn't look like it is under 4 metres, as also I still don't believe how a <4m car can have a decent legroom [better than the Dzire, acc to your report] That is some really AMAZing packaging by Honda.
The front grille does remind me of the previous gen Verna's last refresh avataar.

Honda have finally started playing all their cards right and I hope this will also continue when it comes to pricing the Amaze. I think the lessons they learnt the hard way with the Jazz and City's pricing will come in handy here and they will price it 'just right'.

Here's to shaking up the segment!
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Old 23rd November 2012, 18:53   #81
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Is it just me or does it look like HONDA just copied the designs from their competitors catalogue. IMHO, the front looks exactly like a BRIO, the REAR is a lift off from Dzire and side profile from the Hyundai's fluidic design.

All said and done, if they price this right from day 1(Unlike CITY and JAZZ) we will buy this car (I am one among them) for three reasons.

1. This is a diesel.
2. Long waiting period for the Maruti cars
3. The premium tag that the HONDA badge carries.

O.T - With the petrol prices being so high, may be our Two wheelers should also have a diesel variant on offer. Imagine the queues outside the petrol bunks..LOL
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Old 23rd November 2012, 19:02   #82
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Great Review Vidyut. Congrats!!!

Can you let us know how far you pushed this car on the track i.e. max speed.

Also did you observe the rpm reading in tachometer when the car was doing 100km speed?

I think if Honda price this 50K above Dzire they have a very good chance. They also should offer ABS + Airbags in all the variants like City.

I would recommend Honda to scale up their network and service centers to address the high volumes they are going to get by addition of diesel cars in their portfolio.

Thanks,
Prakash.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 19:24   #83
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

I am surprised that they have simply copy pasted the angular grill slots from the city in to the softly designed nose of the Brio. 2 things on my wishlist were a symmetrical dashboard design and adjustable headrests, which seem to have been left out.
I agree that the overall design (if you mask the logo) is very unlike Honda and is a cocktail of many cars we see around.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 19:43   #84
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

all i could think while reading the review was assuming that this engine a 1.5 ltr unit with an FGT churns out about 99 BHP, and a similar unit with a VGT would be headed the new city's way in 2014 then i would say it would be safe to assume the city the be quite a performer, given the discrete performance of the current 1.5 petrol SOHC (L15A7) unit which makes a decent amount of power relative to its fuel efficiency (read 14-14.5 kmpl in the city). I guess we should be expecting power figures for the future city to be around 120-130 BHP.
Ah the dreamers life, anyways i guess im already late for my city's ownership report, so should get to it.

Anyways a great report and expectedly first from T-bhp.
Cheers
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Old 23rd November 2012, 19:43   #85
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Quote:
Originally Posted by altius View Post
I may be OT here! Many people are predicting the end of Dzire's dominance. I am doubtful about that. Sure Amaze would sell some good numbers but I dont think it would be anywhere near Dzire. I don't think car buyer's obsession with Maruti Small Cars generally and Swift/Dzire in particular are about to end. We will always find some reason to continue buying Dzire. If buying is based on objective evaluations and not on perceptions, I don't think some of Maruti's cars should outsell competitors the way they do! I would cite Figo (which is considered a VFM car) which sells about 1/4th of Swift as an example
I Agree altius. Dzire is a VFM car and will remain the best entry level sedan . Amaze will be priced higher than Dzire, maintenance definitely more than Maruti., Amaze will also have a waiting list of 3-4 months atleast . However Amaze will eat sales of Etios, Manza, Fiesta, small percent of Dzire.
Finally Toyota should learn how to make entry level car from Honda.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 20:17   #86
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Thanks for the report. It looks like you guys had a fun time.

I sort of agree with Harbir here. I personally don't like the looks of this car, just like I don't the Dzire. I'd also differ regarding the rear looking like it was properly crafted for this car. It seems like an awkward extension of the Brio (the Brio was super weird looking too haha!).

This seems to be noticeable only in the first photo of this review, i.e. the profile view. Otherwise it seems decent. The tires seem puny, but then again, which was the last Indian sedan/hatch that had nice meaty tires?

Will see how the interior fares in the full review. Thanks again.

Last edited by GTO : 24th November 2012 at 10:35. Reason: Quoted post deleted
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Old 23rd November 2012, 20:44   #87
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

I hated the original dZire. that was another hideous abomination. the new one I like. the Brio I also like. the Amaze is ghastly.

But I expected it would be. The brio has an usual degree of three dimensionality to its shape. It you look at it from above you see that it has a dart shape, the with car greenhouse (roof and glassed area) narrowing as you go back towards the rear. Its not so apparent from eye level but its a very central part of the visual impression the brio makes, even if you are not consciously aware of it.

In the Amaze, the swoopy narrowing cross section of the brio is replaced with straight slab sides. Worse, with the brio's sharply rising window sill line, the amaze ends up with a very high boot, and thus a huge amount of slab sided visual mass around the rear of the car. THe effort to break it up by replicating the creases from the front of the car doesn't work. Making things worse is a rear door too short in length to look graceful, wheel wells too small for the slab sided rear half, a wheel base too short for height of the vehicle, the awkwardness of proportion that hits the very few cars that have tried to cram a sedan shape onto a too short wheelbase and overall length while trying to preserve interior volume, which inevitably results in a tallboy sedan that looks really messy. Tall boy hatches and wagons work. Tall boy sedans don't.

The Amaze wouldn't fly in any mature sophisticated market.

I'm sitting here dreaming for an AT diesel for the brio or the Jazz.

The Amaze is too ridiculous for words.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 20:46   #88
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Kudos to Team-BHP on going international And kudos to Honda on their first diesel.

This snapshot taken from Honda's Thailand site is more digestible to me; may be because it is a black car and because it is more Photoshop-ed in terms of perspective.

Name:  amz.JPG
Views: 17269
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Though Honda is synonymous to reliability, I doubt, if they price it in the range of the petrol City, the Maruti Dzire may still rule the roost. The service accessibility factoring in too. Personally, I felt the boot job to be better than the Dzire as the design lines are better matching to the rest of the car. But. Honda, if you are listening, please get a better grill; one which depicts a sedan than a hatch; with less height and more width. Fog lamps and adjustable head restraints too. And please bring the alloys on the Thai one.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 21:02   #89
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Nice review! As far as reliability of the engine goes you cannot argue with Honda. All I want now is Honda placing this engine in the Jazz and make it the perfect hatch for India.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 21:03   #90
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Default Re: Honda Amaze 1.5L Diesel : Driven

Honda would draw numbers from the Amaze only if it is priced right. The car seems evident it is not for a global platform and meant for the Asian market.
One thing becomes very clear now, Jazz would be phased out from the Indian market and this is seen from the dealers attitude too, whenever queried on the Jazz.

Cheers!
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