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Old 6th July 2013, 18:51   #1
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Default 2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update

Beauty and style are subjective ain't it? "In the eye of the beholder" wise men say. I second that opinion, and how. Nothing annoys me more than the question "How does that look good to you?". Answer? It just does, there's no explaining it right? The reason I'm starting off my review like this is because the Bolero is one such car that has been judged thoroughly as an ugly duckling, a rural wagon, or a 'doodhwallas' car (milk man's car). Looks do play an important car in the automotive industry, hell the designer is probably better known than the engineer who R & D's the engine.

My hunt for an SUV/MUV/UV began with the run of the mill sub 15 Lac bracket, with the Scorpio, Storme, Safari Dicor, Duster, Ecosport, Aria, Innova, et al. The search wasn't aimed at any particular requirement, I just haven't owned a big car like this before and I decided this was the perfect time to start looking for one. The Bolero was never on the cards...why? It never figured in popular conversation. Never would any of my friends and family say, "What about the Bolero? Have you test driven that?"

I stumbled upon the 2013 facelifted Bolero during my internet escapades and was immediately blown away by it's looks. There was no second guessing for me, it clearly looked way more butch, macho, and raw than any Scorpio or safari ever could (again, in my opinion obviously). To give you an idea of what I think a sexy SUV is, take a look at these.

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The Mercedes Benz G Wagen, the old skool Defender, and the Mahindra Cj3b are just a few names that come to mind if I was asked what my opinion of a sexy off roader was. Keeping this school of thought in mind, the Mahindra Bolero easily makes the cut as far as the looks department is concerned.

Last edited by ByDesign : 6th July 2013 at 21:13.
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Old 6th July 2013, 19:45   #2
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Default re: 2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! (More Pics on Pg 5)

Unfortunately, the showroom didn't have a test drive Bolero ready, so I was courteously offered a quick trip down to their stockyard where I would be given the chance to test one of their new ones. And to make things even sweeter, I was given a VLX variant Scorpio to drive to the stockyard, which was around 7 kms away. The Scorpio was on the to-test list for me, even though I wasn't positively comfy with the idea of spending almost 14 L on road for a top variant of the Scorpio. Two birds with one stone and off we went!

Mahindra Scorpio Quick Points List


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  • The voice messaging system is a real pain. I appreciate what they're trying to do in the interest of safety and good planning, but Mahindra, was it absolutely necessary to have a piano riff in the background? I equated this music with the music that plays on an air india flight during takeoff, or probably your friendly neighborhood supermarket, where no one really gives a rats behind what music plays. On the flip side, you really HAVE to wear your seatbelt, if not for the sake of your life, just to turn that voice off!
  • The engine is extremely torquey and pulls like a powerful sedan. The Scorpio rocketed to 100 kmph with no effort whatsoever in 4th gear. In my mind, who would want to drive an SUV at a 100 kmph anyway?
  • The vibrations felt on the gear shift are horrendous, especially on idle and while red lining the car.
  • The gear shift isn't sure slotted at all. Most shifts I was wondering if I'd hit the gear properly or not.
  • The AC is effective, and the rear vents made sure my friend in the back seat was comfy.
  • The driving position and ergonomics are excellent, and the view of the road is like commandeering the Titanic, i.e. very commanding.
  • I know I mentioned the torquiness of the engine already, but let me also say that the car was absolutely at home trundling along at 20 kmph even in 3rd gear! No shuddering!
  • The test drive vehicle was 2 years old, and the wear and tear on the steering mounted buttons were more than evident to the naked eye. Didn't really feel premium anymore. Mental note? Don't get the VLX version of the Scorpio.
  • juicy features like auto headlamps, rain sensing wipers, and micro hybrid technology are nice, but they aren't decision making or breaking factors for a person like me.
Mahindra Bolero 2013

The face-lifted Mahindra Bolero looks absolutely smashing. I love the way the body's chiseled, in fact, it reeks of the old skool. The hardened edges on the car, straight lines, massively butch stance, and the road presence, for me, lay down parameters for a sure shot winner for a solid looking SUV. Apparently the newest version of this car had several tweaks and features that were more mainstream consumer friendly, and we'll get to those shortly.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0190.jpg

This easily appeals to the Defender fan in me.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0191.jpg

This picture makes it look as if the car just keeps on going. Translation? There's a lot of room in there.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0192.jpg

As meaty as front bumpers can get.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0193.jpg

The hawk eye design front headlamps are a winner for me.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0194.jpg

A closer look at that mean front look. Note there are no fog lamps even in the top end variant, which I found strange, but it isn't tough to get these fitted.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0196.jpg

Rear mounted spare tire

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0197.jpg

The rear tail lamp is simple yet effective. That fuel lid is remotely opened by a switch under the dash, driver side. I flipped it thinking it was the bonnet opening switch by mistake.

Last edited by ByDesign : 6th July 2013 at 19:50.
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Old 6th July 2013, 20:26   #3
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2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0198.jpg

The OVRM's are purely manually hand operated but offer good visibility

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0199.jpg

Sturdy and surprisingly satisfying to use door handles. It costs about 1600 INR to get all the handles coated with chrome. I'd like that.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0200.jpg

A closer look at the OVRM

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0201.jpg

Large gap between the front bumper and body

That huge gap between the front bumper and the front of the Bolero made me do a quick second take. I couldn't figure out the advantage of fitting a bumper this way from an engineering perspective and being sort of hungover this lazy Saturday, I'm not willing to give my brain a workout just yet. Anyone have any ideas? FYI, the gaps are noticeable from the side and top view obviously, and looks like the cars taken a hit.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0202.jpg

Another look at that gap. Reminds me of Madonnas teeth.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0208.jpg

A look at the top variant ZLX black Bolero. My color of choice. Notice the side step plates look good and solidly built, which they are.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0209.jpg

Both side and rear views of the black Boleros. The rear step adds a nice touch with this color of car. The ZLX variant gets a rear spare tire cover, which gives a bit of class to the vehicle.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0210.jpg

Standing next to his brother, the Scorpio. You can clearly see the brute in the Bolero here. The Scorpio is more curved, slightly taller, and just about as wide. In my opinion? The Bolero looks way better. Positively jeep'ish. The front bumper gap sticks out like a sore thumb though. I'm really hoping there's some function to this kind of fitment.

A look inside

I was pleasantly surprised when I sat in the Bolero. The inside is completely revamped from the old days. The steering wheel is beefy to hold and feels good in ones grip. The seats offer good posture support, and has simple two way movement for front-back and tilt adjustment respectively. The fabric feels alright, firm and nicely stitched together. The steering wheel position isn't adjustable, and I wasn't particularly overly comfy holding it while seated. It's a tad higher than the Scorpio. I wonder if it'll affect long highway drives.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0195.jpg

The dash is decently put together, no badly cut or finished bits, and the color scheme is easy on the eyes. The instrument cluster is all digital now, with the top ZLX variant getting a driver information display (multi information display) with real time FE information, trip data, distance to empty, etc. This screen is located in the center of the dash. It was covered in plastic in all these stockyard vehicles, so I didn't get a chance to see them light up. The variant I test drove was the SLX, which doesn't have that feature.

The dash gets wood finish plastic treatment, so that adds a bit of variety to the scheme of things. It's fitted well, and doesn't feel cheap or tacky surprisingly.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0203.jpg

Door handle assembly is basic. Padding provided too. Partially in sight is the door bottle holder and magazine storage space.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0204.jpg

A CD and mp3 player comes with the SLX and VLX variants. There's no USB slot and that's a big downer; but I know it can be fitted externally though. I didn't get a chance to test the sound quality and nor did it bother me that I didn't since I usually amp and woof up my ICE setups (if I do end up getting this car). Hopefully, this kenwood system comes with pre-outs for that. You can see the dash lit up in this pic. The speedo display is nice and large, easy to read, and the digital tacho is a nice addition too. Fuel gauge is stylish on the side and runs along the entire height of the instrument cluster. Nice moves Mahindra! Way to add funky styling bits to a 'doodhwalla' car!

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0205.jpg

A slightly better view of the dash here. Can someone please explain to me what the left rotary knob is for? Interesting in both 'on' and 'off' positions, as well as the intermittent positions, this did nothing to the AC when it was on. I'll review the drive quality in the next section of this review, but this has to be discussed here.

The salesman had no idea what the switch was for, and since the stockyard vehicles were not ready for delivery, some of the stickers etc. were still on fixed on the dash.

*Important* I couldn't find an air direction switch anywhere! When the AC and heater is on, it will just blow from the main front vents! There are two switches for windshield defogging and I'm not sure what the red air button was for, perhaps a rear defogger. The quality of the AC rotary knob is average leaning on poor, and didn't seem like it would last too long.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0206.jpg

A look at the stalks and steering wheel. The ZLX variant comes with rear wiper and washer too.

2013 Mahindra Bolero - Rumble Tumble Tank comes home! EDIT: 14,000 Kms Update-imag0207.jpg

The right side air vent area has the micro hybrid toggle switch (only in the ZLX variant and not really of any practical use if you just exercise some presence of mind at long red lights). Also visible here is the headlight level adjuster.

Last edited by ByDesign : 6th July 2013 at 21:15.
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Old 6th July 2013, 21:40   #4
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The drive

I should have taken a picture of the key fob. It folds in and looks and feels premium. The SLX and ZLX variants get keyless entry with this smart looking fob. The buttons are extremely well made and work really well. It's the small things like this that add value to a car for me, and Mahindra's gone ahead and done this for the Bolero pretty well.

The engine gunned to life with just a seconds twist of the key. The engine purrs, and pretty darned refined for a dieselhead like myself. There's no clatter or noise inside the cabin with the windows up, and the gear shift didn't rattle (thank you common rail tech!). I eased her into first and started letting go of the clutch. Now, for a car that has a reputation for excellent low end torque, this wasn't completely up to expectations. For comparison, my 2.0L Optra Magnum literally darts forward in first and second when I start letting the clutch out. My Palio Stile 1.3 MJD does the same thing, but to a lesser extent. My Accent CRDi (sold) had amazing off zero torque. Still the sum and substance of it is, in these three diesel cars, I don't need to even touch the accelerator when I'm starting from a standstill, or even on a light slope. The Bolero that I drove however, needed a bit of an accelerator tap to not stall. I tried this several times on the road, and unless I really paid attention to the clutch, the engine seemed as if it would stall if I didn't compensate with a bit o' gas.

The Bolero comes with a massive 2.5 L common rail diesel engine, which is what is responsible for the more than acceptable levels of NVH. But what is surprising, is that Mahindra's tuned only 63 bhp and 190 Nm of torque from this. It isn't in my blood to laugh at low levels of power in a UV, because all I want is torque. But 190 Nm isn't cutting it either. Sure the power band is pretty low, at 1400 RPM, this seems as if it'll be perfect for city driving and frequent jams. Where did the torque go? If someone's got any tips on this, I'd be grateful, cause I was kind of hoping for a nice crisp launch with just the clutch.

I experimented on a 25 to 30 degree slope on the road. Let go of the clutch and removed my foot from the accelerator completely. With three full grown men on board, and the AC on, the Bolero comfortably trundled up the slope. That was fun.

The engine performs just fine when pushed a little. In fact it doesn't feel as under powered as it's made out to be on paper. Hitting 60 kmph in 3rd was extremely comfortable with no rattle or strain on the engine. The AC is effective, but my lingering doubt still remains as to what that second rotary knob is for. There's no rear AC, but our rear passenger was comfy at the back.

As I drove through potholes, over rocks, dirt roads, and bumps, I asked how the ride was at the back and the reply was "more comfy than the Scorpio actually", which was heartwarming.

The gearshift feels good to use, and shifts at any speed were much easier to perform than the Scorpio. As I mentioned earlier, the steering position is a little higher than what I'm accustomed to. Rear view was optimum and I had no qualms about it. The steering felt light enough, and I maneuvered tight turns easily. The turning radius is more than acceptable for a tank this size and I managed it quite easily.

My poetic summary of it all

The Bolero isn't built for speed. Folks looking for feature rich so called SUV's needn't bother looking in the Bolero's direction. The Bolero isn't a killer, but she's a fort. The build quality is respectable and definitely looks like something that can 'take on anything'. The added electronic features are minimal, but add tremendous dynamism to the car. I love the way the power windows buttons are in the center between the seats behind the hand brake. There's plenty of storage space for bottles, cups, and magazines.

This review was intended to bring my views out regarding this beast. She's super tame, respectfully refined, and sturdy as a tank on the road through thick and thin. The Bolero's reliability is legendary, and the sales figures even to this day speak the minds of the populace who are in search of a proven work horse. The work horse now has added features, a nice contemporary interior, comfort add-ons like excellent power steering, AC, power windows and a rear wiper-washer. The price of approximately 8.5 L on road in Delhi for the top variant is a bargain. I'm very appreciative of what Mahindra has tried doing with their Bolero project, and they haven't ruined the story behind the car with pointless design makeovers. The facelift is welcome, and she's as sturdy as she ever was.

Furthermore, if I may speak for myself here, I've never fitted the portrait of a conventional consumer. My first own purchase of a car was the Palio Stile 1.3. My heart just gave me a resounding thump when I asked myself if this was the car I wanted. The car was discontinued. It was the last piece in the country. No assurance of spares or service. FIAT isn't one of those companies that families talk about or even think of buying their cars from. Yet, after one test drive, the beauty of the Stile just captured my heart. I never once regretted buying her. The Bolero speaks to me in a similar way. I'm 25 years of age, looking to buy my second car (the Optra and i10 are cars my parents own and use), and my first preference is a Bolero!

I hope I can book this car in a couple of days, my color of choice being dark red or black. Hope you had fun reading this review.

I might have read this somewhere, but I fully agree that the Bolero qualifies as an HUV! (Hardcore Utility Vehicle)

Other Interesting Points
  • Standard warranty is 1 year. Only time contingent, no kms. Additional 3 year warranty is for approximately 11k. Get this.
  • The horn was so meek, I thought a kitten was under the hood. The salesman assured me there was a loose connection.
  • There is no air direction switch for the air con!
  • There is a nifty fold away arm rest with cup holders in the 2nd row of seats!
  • There are no fog lamps even in the top variant of the Bolero. However there is a provision to get them fitted.
  • The anti-theft GPS tracking add-on is 10k additional!
  • Mahindra isn't even offering free floor mats with the Bolero. My recommendation is to skip the super expensive 2k floor mats set and get equally nice after market ones for about 800 INR.
  • No alloys even in the ZLX model means you are free to get your own package! The Mahindra alloys options are almost 30k for a set of 5! Go aftermarket here too!

Misc Further Reading

My Accent CRDi (sold) review thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...iled-pics.html (Hyundai Accent @ 135,000km *DETAILED PICS*)

My Optra Magnum purchase and review thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...rift-grey.html (New Optra Magnum 2.0 LT [Sandrift Grey])

My Palio Stile purchase and review thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...e-1-3-mjd.html (Medium Grey Tank - New Palio Stile 1.3 MJD)

Last edited by ByDesign : 6th July 2013 at 23:30.
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Old 8th July 2013, 11:48   #5
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Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Initial Ownership Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 8th July 2013, 14:51   #6
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That was a great report ByDesign. Which variant are you looking at SLX or VLX?

Congratulations anyway and looking forward to your ownership report soon.

The only thing I don't like about the Bolero is the digital dash! Also, why they don't offer a 4wd version in any of the trims is beyond me. You got to buy a high roof , non AC/PS version if you want a 4wd!
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Old 8th July 2013, 15:36   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
The drive

. Now, for a car that has a reputation for excellent low end torque, this wasn't completely up to expectations. For comparison, my 2.0L Optra Magnum literally darts forward in first and second when I start letting the clutch out. My Palio Stile 1.3 MJD does the same thing, but to a lesser extent. My Accent CRDi (sold) had amazing off zero torque. Still the sum and substance of it is, in these three diesel cars, I don't need to even touch the accelerator when I'm starting from a standstill, or even on a light slope.
The low-end torque is missing on the M2Dicr's. I bought a Bolero 4 months back (the one with the new digital dashbaord) and even though i had the option of going for the common rail M2Dicr, a long test drive and a detailed discussion with a Mahindra service station advisor kept me away from the M2Dicr. I bought the DI Turbo instead which has oodles of low end torque and fantastic driveability through the range. (Infact, once i put the car into 2nd gear, i have to take my foot of the accelerator and keep it hovering on the brake as the DI picks up speed frantically quickly!


If you still havent booked a car yet, you might want to check out my review of the DI v/s the M2Dicr (which may help you to make up your mind). However please note, the DI only comes without a Powersteering now and with leaf spring's all around but the torquey engine makes everything worth it!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...e-liked-2.html


As for the AC Controls, the red button is the front glass defogger. The one next to it between the red button and the steering wheel) is the heater. The rotary control on the other hand is weird; i fully agree. It clicks 'on' and 'off' and also rotates between 'high' and 'low' but i think it only controls the quantum of air (and not the temperature of air); which is very strange since each vent also has an option for controlling the quantum of air.

Hope I could answer your queries satisfactorily. Good luck with your decision making!
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Old 8th July 2013, 15:59   #8
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Quote:
Large gap between the front bumper and body

That huge gap between the front bumper and the front of the Bolero made me do a quick second take. I couldn't figure out the advantage of fitting a bumper this way from an engineering perspective and being sort of hungover this lazy Saturday, I'm not willing to give my brain a workout just yet. Anyone have any ideas? FYI, the gaps are noticeable from the side and top view obviously, and looks like the cars taken a hit.

Attachment 1106554

Another look at that gap. Reminds me of Madonnas teeth.

Attachment 1106555
Congrats on your new Bolero..

The huge gaps between the bumper and the body is because the bumper in attached on the chassis and not on the body. The gap is needed to allow movement of the body relative to the bumper to avoid rubbing of the two.

Last edited by moralfibre : 10th July 2013 at 09:48. Reason: Fixing quote tag
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Old 8th July 2013, 17:08   #9
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The rotary knob you speak of is the thermostat. Works brilliantly on this car, actually. It is not an HVAC, which means there is no mixing of warm air with the AC to keep your cabin temperature under control. You manually tweak the knob and the compressor will cut out sooner or later depending on the setting. I especially found this feature extremely useful on cold days when you don't want to use the full power of this extremely powerful air-con.
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Old 8th July 2013, 18:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
That was a great report ByDesign. Which variant are you looking at SLX or VLX?

Congratulations anyway and looking forward to your ownership report soon.

The only thing I don't like about the Bolero is the digital dash! Also, why they don't offer a 4wd version in any of the trims is beyond me. You got to buy a high roof , non AC/PS version if you want a 4wd!
Thanks. I'm looking at the ZLX one. The only differences in the variants that are of any use to me are the rear wiper washer, and the driver information system. The voice messaging system as I said was not really a quality add-on and the micro hybrid system is not needed either.

The 4WD variants posed a problem with the actual location the components in the engine bay. From what research I did, the older versions did come optionally with 4WD but without power steering due to this physical limitation. There was some limitation with the condensor too, so 4WD's had to come without AC. Will someone please correct me if I'm wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shreyaskr View Post
Congrats on your new Bolero..

The huge gaps between the bumper and the body is because the bumper in attached on the chassis and not on the body. The gap is needed to allow movement of the body relative to the bumper to avoid rubbing of the two.
Yup that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose it's a nice technical feature for a rugged vehicle like this one that's supposed to take an occasional beating as part of its job profile.

I have not yet booked the car Shreyas, so fingers crossed for when I do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post
The low-end torque is missing on the M2Dicr's. I bought a Bolero 4 months back (the one with the new digital dashbaord) and even though i had the option of going for the common rail M2Dicr, a long test drive and a detailed discussion with a Mahindra service station advisor kept me away from the M2Dicr. I bought the DI Turbo instead which has oodles of low end torque and fantastic driveability through the range. (Infact, once i put the car into 2nd gear, i have to take my foot of the accelerator and keep it hovering on the brake as the DI picks up speed frantically quickly!


If you still havent booked a car yet, you might want to check out my review of the DI v/s the M2Dicr (which may help you to make up your mind). However please note, the DI only comes without a Powersteering now and with leaf spring's all around but the torquey engine makes everything worth it!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...e-liked-2.html


As for the AC Controls, the red button is the front glass defogger. The one next to it between the red button and the steering wheel) is the heater. The rotary control on the other hand is weird; i fully agree. It clicks 'on' and 'off' and also rotates between 'high' and 'low' but i think it only controls the quantum of air (and not the temperature of air); which is very strange since each vent also has an option for controlling the quantum of air.

Hope I could answer your queries satisfactorily. Good luck with your decision making!
Excellent post and very helpful indeed. Thanks very much. See Lucifer's post below. He's answered the question about the rotary knob. The salesman from Mahindra also said the same thing he did, so that doubt's cleared. Furthermore, I did go through your thread in good detail. There are no DI variants available in BS4 cities such as New Delhi, so I'm out of luck there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
The rotary knob you speak of is the thermostat. Works brilliantly on this car, actually. It is not an HVAC, which means there is no mixing of warm air with the AC to keep your cabin temperature under control. You manually tweak the knob and the compressor will cut out sooner or later depending on the setting. I especially found this feature extremely useful on cold days when you don't want to use the full power of this extremely powerful air-con.
Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds good. But we're clear that there is no air direction switch right? No foot well cooling options etc.

I have a question for the engine gurus now.

Since this UV has a 2.5 liter diesel engine having only a power output of 63 bhp and 190 Nm of torque, how can we get more power out of it? In comparison, my Palio Stile 1.3 MJD has 75 bhp and 185 Nm of torque, which in totality is almost equal or more than the Bolero.

Question - Does the engine cubic capacity affect the driveability of the vehicle, or is it purely the power and torque capability that does that.

Question - Would a 2.5L common rail diesel having an ouput of 63 Bhp and 190 Nm of Torque perform the same as a 1.3L common rail diesel engine having an ouput of 75 Bhp and 184 Nm of Torque in the same vehicle? In this Bolero? What is the point of having such a massive volumetric engine if it doesn't translate into actual output?

I know that's a mixture of a lot of tiny questions, but they all revolve around the same central issue. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by ByDesign : 8th July 2013 at 18:51.
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Old 8th July 2013, 19:13   #11
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[quote=ByDesign;3172856]

Question - Would a 2.5L common rail diesel having an ouput of 63 Bhp and 190 Nm of Torque perform the same as a 1.3L common rail diesel engine having an ouput of 75 Bhp and 184 Nm of Torque in the same vehicle? In this Bolero? What is the point of having such a massive volumetric engine if it doesn't translate into actual output?

[quote]

Well,i've driven a Swift DDis, the Punto 1.3 (the Punto 1.3 90 hp edition too) as well as the 1.5 MCR100 mill of the Quanto extensively and this is what i have observed).

The smaller displacement engines producing high powers have an amazing pickup. The Swift DDis, the Punto's as well as the pair of now defunct Getz CRdi's. But even with all this power, show them the slopes of Mount Abu in Rajasthan and they will have to climb up in 2nd gear because they make maximum power high up in the rev range and there is just no low-end torque. Compare that to a 100 bhp 1.5 litre Quanto and you will find its a case of neither-here-nor-there. Even when it has a 100 bhp, it is no pocket rocket (infact its very slow as its weight is very close to the Xylo) and because there's no heavy displacement engine (there is no torque either). The Bolero on the other hand, the DI specifically climbed up the steep Mount Abu slopes in 3rd gear- chugging along like a coal train. I have been to Abu in a Santro, a Corolla D4D an Accent, a Getz CRdi and DDis and a Multijet and i have always had to climb the slopes in 2nd gear (1st in a Santro and the Corolla sometimes).

But in a nutshell, thats what engine size in terms of displacement does, it gives you pulling power. The 2.5 engine of the Bolero producing a puny 63 horses will take its own time to get to 100 km/hr. But it gets to 70 km/hr very quickly. And show it a steep slope and it can shame cars thrice its cost by just chugging along like a steam locomotive.

So it depends on you- if you prefer outright acceleration/top speed; the Bolero is going to dissapoint you, but if you prefer moderate speeds and good pulling power (it pulls even when it is fully loaded), you are going to love the Bolero!
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Old 8th July 2013, 19:14   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByDesign View Post
I have a question for the engine gurus now.

Since this UV has a 2.5 liter diesel engine having only a power output of 63 bhp and 190 Nm of torque, how can we get more power out of it? In comparison, my Palio Stile 1.3 MJD has 75 bhp and 185 Nm of torque, which in totality is almost equal or more than the Bolero.

Question - Does the engine cubic capacity affect the driveability of the vehicle, or is it purely the power and torque capability that does that.

Question - Would a 2.5L common rail diesel having an ouput of 63 Bhp and 190 Nm of Torque perform the same as a 1.3L common rail diesel engine having an ouput of 75 Bhp and 184 Nm of Torque in the same vehicle? In this Bolero? What is the point of having such a massive volumetric engine if it doesn't translate into actual output?

I know that's a mixture of a lot of tiny questions, but they all revolve around the same central issue. Thanks in advance.
They have detuned the engine for efficiency and emission norms.

A lower cubic capacity engine on a large car will give you a stressed out feeling on the highway and would require frequent shifting too. I know the 1.3 L MJD engine has the same specifications but drive ability will be different. Try driving a Swift 1.3 MJD and a SX4 MJD you'll know what the difference is.

I too actually have the same doubt but feel this could be the reason behind.

If you need higher output may be you'll have to play around with the ECU.

Waiting replies from the guru's.

Cheers,
Anurag.
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Old 8th July 2013, 23:50   #13
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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post
The smaller displacement engines producing high powers have an amazing pickup. The Swift DDis, the Punto's as well as the pair of now defunct Getz CRdi's. But even with all this power, show them the slopes of Mount Abu in Rajasthan and they will have to climb up in 2nd gear because they make maximum power high up in the rev range and there is just no low-end torque. Compare that to a 100 bhp 1.5 litre Quanto and you will find its a case of neither-here-nor-there. Even when it has a 100 bhp, it is no pocket rocket (infact its very slow as its weight is very close to the Xylo) and because there's no heavy displacement engine (there is no torque either). The Bolero on the other hand, the DI specifically climbed up the steep Mount Abu slopes in 3rd gear- chugging along like a coal train. I have been to Abu in a Santro, a Corolla D4D an Accent, a Getz CRdi and DDis and a Multijet and i have always had to climb the slopes in 2nd gear (1st in a Santro and the Corolla sometimes).

But in a nutshell, thats what engine size in terms of displacement does, it gives you pulling power. The 2.5 engine of the Bolero producing a puny 63 horses will take its own time to get to 100 km/hr. But it gets to 70 km/hr very quickly. And show it a steep slope and it can shame cars thrice its cost by just chugging along like a steam locomotive.

So it depends on you- if you prefer outright acceleration/top speed; the Bolero is going to dissapoint you, but if you prefer moderate speeds and good pulling power (it pulls even when it is fully loaded), you are going to love the Bolero!
Excellent post! I was smiling from ear to ear when I was reading that post. The descriptions about the Bolero compared with a steam locomotive and coal train were awesome. And yes, I am completely looking forward to that. I have other cars for speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
They have detuned the engine for efficiency and emission norms.

A lower cubic capacity engine on a large car will give you a stressed out feeling on the highway and would require frequent shifting too. I know the 1.3 L MJD engine has the same specifications but drive ability will be different. Try driving a Swift 1.3 MJD and a SX4 MJD you'll know what the difference is.

I too actually have the same doubt but feel this could be the reason behind.

If you need higher output may be you'll have to play around with the ECU.

Waiting replies from the guru's.

Cheers,
Anurag.
I'm sure the emission norms would apply for other cars with the same engines as well. For example, even the Scorpio with a 2.5 L common rail engine produces 120 bhp and 290 Nm. The emission norms are usually adhered to with proper reducing agents and catalytic convertors. I completely agree with the lower volume engines feeling stressed out on highways etc.

Re-mapping the ECU on the Bolero will definitely throw out more. Possibly even a piggyback tuning box will give about 30% more power and torque, and the expense of the occasional black smoke and other such problems. I'll explore these possibilities slowly. Fingers crossed I'll book the car day after.

Sad news - The Toreador Red will take more than a month to be delivered, while the black one is readily available. I'm in two minds about this. My heart says go for the red one since it's unique (the showroom guys said they sold only 2 reds in the whole year!), whereas on the other hand, I've always thought black boleros or other UV's look pretty menacing and I like that. Inputs anyone? Do black cars actually heat up so much in summer that they're not worth buying compared to the lighter hues?
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Old 9th July 2013, 00:21   #14
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Sad news - The Toreador Red will take more than a month to be delivered, while the black one is readily available. I'm in two minds about this. My heart says go for the red one since it's unique (the showroom guys said they sold only 2 reds in the whole year!), whereas on the other hand, I've always thought black boleros or other UV's look pretty menacing and I like that. Inputs anyone? Do black cars actually heat up so much in summer that they're not worth buying compared to the lighter hues?
It depends buddy, if you are ready to wait then get the Red else go for the black.

Caution: I have not owned any car in black so no idea of the heating issues in summer. But keeping this black locomotive clean will be a tough time.

I'd go for the black if I had to. All the best by the way.

Cheers,
Anurag.

In the image 210, the gap between the front bumper and the bonnet is too large I guess. The white bolero on its right has a lower gap to the black one in the picture. Get it checked once.

No technical point is there for such a panel gap fitment.

Last edited by a4anurag : 9th July 2013 at 00:24.
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Old 9th July 2013, 07:05   #15
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Unless this vehicle was intended to be used primarily in rugged conditions, would the contemporary Ford EcoSport not have been of interest ? Price points would have been similar.
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