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Old 20th August 2013, 16:09   #46
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Its a combination of speed and depth/amount of water in the puddle you drive into, that causes aquaplaning. The tires you have, depending on their tread pattern can help reduce this to some extend. In the cases mentioned above, the feeling of Safari stepping out of line could be because of the sudden reduction in speed caused by driving into water. Remember that usually its just one front tire that hits the water at speed, this does cause a turning force. The resistance provided by water is huge. All the other 3 wheels are continuing at the same speed (atleast for a few milliseconds), while the front tire looses speed when it hits water.

I have felt this on the Fiesta that I drive, and on a Fortuner that a friend owns. Another thing, avoid braking if possible when u hit a puddle. It will cause aquaplaning since the tire might lock up due to loss of grip. Even if you feel that the vehicle is aquaplaning, do not brake or make steering corrections. This will lead to loss of control. Hold tight and you will cross the water patch.

Last edited by unni.ak : 20th August 2013 at 16:11.
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Old 20th August 2013, 17:56   #47
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Default re: Stormed and How! Tata Safari Storme LX Review. EDIT: Sold!

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Originally Posted by CharlesA View Post
Sorry to hijack your thread Narayan

Water indeed does not splash back on the windshield. Will try with some more water LOL.

The intermittent wiper settings do work...but have not got used to it and the steering blocks the view on what setting it is in while driving..

The hydroplaning effect is there though and the first time it occurred I was scared. Have been careful after that to reduce speed while going through puddles since then.

Has anyone changed the music system and what setup are you running.
Been there done that
Water splashes. Just do it right.

A note to new comers to Safari. Dont let this feature surprise you. Be careful when you fly past watery pot holes.

The new updates about wiper is helpful. I was always irritated about it; was lazy to find out how the rest works.

Hydroplaning is another scary stuff! On a SUV with such ground clearance and all, you take stuff for granted. I was almost floating for few seconds once when I drove in at 70-80kmph onto a storm flood. Thankfully I got control in time ( guess tyres works as rudder once this happen; all hail the mighty ship).

ICE? Check the ICE section.

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Speaking about hydroplaning, how can a vehicle as heavy as a tank hydroplane? Its a little difficult imagining a 2.5 ton monster suddenly floating on 1-2 inches of water. But yes, I guess that's what's happening, since everyone seems to be reporting it. I have not heard the Dicor guys report this though - or do they also get it?
2.5 tonne is nothing when its on water. A fact I learned yesterday thanks to Discovery channel. And don't forget the Blue Whale.
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Old 20th August 2013, 18:02   #48
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Thanks old timers for the inputs. Very helpful, though it would have been great if I had known it before the first time it happened (that and the ABS activating on light touch with an audible kirrrrrrrrrrrrr .....)!

Is it normal for the truck back side to go out to the left side always or it depends? In my case I have always found the left-ward drift.
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Old 20th August 2013, 20:12   #49
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Thanks old timers for the inputs. Very helpful, though it would have been great if I had known it before the first time it happened (that and the ABS activating on light touch with an audible kirrrrrrrrrrrrr .....)!

Is it normal for the truck back side to go out to the left side always or it depends? In my case I have always found the left-ward drift.
I too have always had leftward drift. Guess that's normal. I have never heard the ABS kicking in! Am I missing something? Does it always make a sound when engaged?

I have actually found the turbo to be lacking specifically on steep inclines. On my trip to Kalpa and Shimla last week, I had to frequently down shift and rev it high to really pick up some zeal.
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Old 20th August 2013, 23:27   #50
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Originally Posted by storme'd View Post
I too have always had leftward drift. Guess that's normal. .
@Storme'd, when do you see this ? if it is during regular driving then please get the left drift checked. There's possibly a problem with the steering unit.

Last edited by condor : 20th August 2013 at 23:28.
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Old 21st August 2013, 09:48   #51
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I too have always had leftward drift. Guess that's normal. I have never heard the ABS kicking in! Am I missing something? Does it always make a sound when engaged?
I guess someone explained the reason for this - the front right tyre hits the water (as the water usually pools by the median). So the front right twheel slows down a lot more than the other 3, causing a rotational turning effect. Hence the left side of the back end drifts out. Makes sense. Don't think its anything to do with alignment or balancing or such.

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I have actually found the turbo to be lacking specifically on steep inclines. On my trip to Kalpa and Shimla last week, I had to frequently down shift and rev it high to really pick up some zeal.
Thats really disappointing news man. Rahul was mentioning how the Dicor's "highway-centric" gearing makes it a bad climber, with the need for frequent down shitfts. Especially when much cheaper SUVs and MUVs climb so much better - the Sumo, the Xylo, Tempo Trax, and the Bolero, are what he mentioned. Even the Innova (with 108 bhp) climbs better. So does the Duster. Not to mention the high end SUVs like the Fortuner and Pajero Sport. We were hoping/wondering if the revised gearing in the Storme would make it a better climber. Your info says apparently and sadly not.

Last edited by ebonho : 21st August 2013 at 09:49.
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Old 21st August 2013, 10:03   #52
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Originally Posted by storme'd View Post
I have actually found the turbo to be lacking specifically on steep inclines. On my trip to Kalpa and Shimla last week, I had to frequently down shift and rev it high to really pick up some zeal.
What speed, what gear ?

@ebonho, since you mentioned many different makes in your post, I think it will help to understand who are those drivers
- if professionals / regulars on that route, they know which gear to use where.
- for others, how do they use their gears ?

A lot depends on how one uses the gears for specific terrain
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Old 21st August 2013, 10:22   #53
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
What speed, what gear ?

@ebonho, since you mentioned many different makes in your post, I think it will help to understand who are those drivers
- if professionals / regulars on that route, they know which gear to use where.
- for others, how do they use their gears ?

A lot depends on how one uses the gears for specific terrain
No idea bro. Basing my comments on the discussion I had with another BHPian (Rahulk76) who just drove his Dicor to Ladakh and back recently. I agree a regular would be smoother and faster up the climbs, but equally, most seasoned drivers would have already acclimatized to the gradients and shift points by the time they hit the really tough slopes on the way to Leh. So its not that even if all the drivers were amateurs (versus the taxi guys), they would be that much slower. In the end, the vehicle also matters. I really wish TSK or someone else could through some light on this, as they are Dicor guys with a lot of hill driving, who have also driven the Storme in the hills.
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Old 21st August 2013, 16:45   #54
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Also balancing was not done since they felt its too early for wheels to lose balance since it would have been done during the PDI. Will need to see whether these issues crop up during my drive back
Had the balancing checked outside today and the front wheels were off balance got it fixed. have a 600km trip tomorrow. Will check if this solves the vibration felt at around 100-110kmph.

Also now that the beast has crossed 2200km, I guess I can push it to 130-140kmph ?
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Old 22nd August 2013, 18:06   #55
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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I guess someone explained the reason for this - the front right tyre hits the water (as the water usually pools by the median). So the front right twheel slows down a lot more than the other 3, causing a rotational turning effect. Hence the left side of the back end drifts out. Makes sense. Don't think its anything to do with alignment or balancing or such.
Exactly. Well said. I have tried running into water on the left side of the road, and you will feel the car rear going a little to the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
Thats really disappointing news man. Rahul was mentioning how the Dicor's "highway-centric" gearing makes it a bad climber, with the need for frequent down shitfts. Especially when much cheaper SUVs and MUVs climb so much better - the Sumo, the Xylo, Tempo Trax, and the Bolero, are what he mentioned. Even the Innova (with 108 bhp) climbs better. So does the Duster. Not to mention the high end SUVs like the Fortuner and Pajero Sport. We were hoping/wondering if the revised gearing in the Storme would make it a better climber. Your info says apparently and sadly not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
No idea bro. Basing my comments on the discussion I had with another BHPian (Rahulk76) who just drove his Dicor to Ladakh and back recently. I agree a regular would be smoother and faster up the climbs, but equally, most seasoned drivers would have already acclimatized to the gradients and shift points by the time they hit the really tough slopes on the way to Leh. So its not that even if all the drivers were amateurs (versus the taxi guys), they would be that much slower. In the end, the vehicle also matters. I really wish TSK or someone else could through some light on this, as they are Dicor guys with a lot of hill driving, who have also driven the Storme in the hills.
When in doubt shift one more gear down (Provided you are not in First already!!). I'm no expert to comment on the Safari/Storme gearing or how it behaves on gradients (haven't driven it around much). All diesels will have trouble climbing off from a stand still. Turbo lag. So, most times we would have to rev up and then let go off the clutch. Someone had just done a Himachal trip on a Fortuner and had in fact mentioned this trouble. The engine will have to be held revved up in each gear to not fall in the lag zone.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 12:25   #56
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Originally Posted by unni.ak View Post
Exactly. Well said. I have tried running into water on the left side of the road, and you will feel the car rear going a little to the right.


When in doubt shift one more gear down (Provided you are not in First already!!). I'm no expert to comment on the Safari/Storme gearing or how it behaves on gradients (haven't driven it around much). All diesels will have trouble climbing off from a stand still. Turbo lag. So, most times we would have to rev up and then let go off the clutch. Someone had just done a Himachal trip on a Fortuner and had in fact mentioned this trouble. The engine will have to be held revved up in each gear to not fall in the lag zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I guess someone explained the reason for this - the front right tyre hits the water (as the water usually pools by the median). So the front right twheel slows down a lot more than the other 3, causing a rotational turning effect. Hence the left side of the back end drifts out. Makes sense. Don't think its anything to do with alignment or balancing or such.



Thats really disappointing news man. Rahul was mentioning how the Dicor's "highway-centric" gearing makes it a bad climber, with the need for frequent down shitfts. Especially when much cheaper SUVs and MUVs climb so much better - the Sumo, the Xylo, Tempo Trax, and the Bolero, are what he mentioned. Even the Innova (with 108 bhp) climbs better. So does the Duster. Not to mention the high end SUVs like the Fortuner and Pajero Sport. We were hoping/wondering if the revised gearing in the Storme would make it a better climber. Your info says apparently and sadly not.
. I have driven a friend's Storme all the way up to Lonavla Amby valley. I Myself own a Tata Manza since 2+ years(Q jet Aura Abs). Gearing ratios are tuned for highway cruising and makes Stormes and Manzas not such a good climbers
Not that the Storme gave up but yes it has happened with my Manza in it's earlydays with me. You have to built up the momentum and plan the curves (hair pin inclines)in advance. Switching off the Ac in advance helps. I guess even the seasoned drivers will agree to this fact when compared to the drive ability offered by a XUV500,Scorpio and Xylo etc.
But that should not be an issue for a regular folk who doesn't encounter such steep hair pin inclines on a daily basis. Another observation with A Manza Multijet mill is that the Hydraulic Power steering also saps the engine power in such situations.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 21:38   #57
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Default re: Stormed and How! Tata Safari Storme LX Review. EDIT: Sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by unni.ak View Post
...
All diesels will have trouble climbing off from a stand still. Turbo lag. So, most times we would have to rev up and then let go off the clutch. Someone had just done a Himachal trip on a Fortuner and had in fact mentioned this trouble. The engine will have to be held revved up in each gear to not fall in the lag zone.
This is where 4L would help much better.
Another thing that I learned [late though] is that we should NOT accelerate too much with the clutch closed [pressed].
Put it in 1st gear, start leaving the clutch slowly, at one point, vehicle would be eager to move forward, then, accelerate gradually, you would start climbing smooth. This is true for ramps too.
Panicking OR Quick climb is never the Diesel's [probably, DICOR's] strength !

Prem.
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Old 25th August 2013, 17:08   #58
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Speaking about hydroplaning, how can a vehicle as heavy as a tank hydroplane? Its a little difficult imagining a 2.5 ton monster suddenly floating on 1-2 inches of water.
The phenomenon of hydroplaning has nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle. It is only a function of the tyre pressure. My memory is a bit rusty here, but if i am not wrong, the min aquaplaning speed of any vehicle can be calculated by the formulae 9 (under root) P (pressure in PSI). So if the tyre pressure is 32 PSI, the min hydroplaning speed will be about 50 Knots or 91 KMPH.

Factors such as weight of the vehicle, tyre condition, road surface condition and depth of water etc AFAIK affect the sensitivity of the vehicle to hydroplaning.
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Old 26th August 2013, 07:59   #59
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Neel, thank you !

I guess beyond the recommended tyre pressure, thsi speed will start to flatten out ?
eg:
The Storme's recommended pressures are 32 / 34 psi. At higher pressures, the shape of the tyre remains same (not much deformation, unlike if running with lower pressures), Hence the min hydroplaning speed may remain more or less steady beyond the 34 psi ?
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Old 26th August 2013, 10:14   #60
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Completed another 1200km round trip to Palakkad.

FE update is 15.5kmpl in 4 lane highways with speeds of 110-120kmph and a/c on in ECON mode always. I think this is good all though I am not hearing much on FE updates from other owners here.

The beast has been holding up well. Some issues I will be reporting to the ASS

1) Inconsistent pull to the left. The pull is mild and does not happen always.
2) Steering vibration after 110kmph. Again it does not happen always - balancing is spot on. Also its not dependent on road surface. I did over 1000kms on 4 lane roads and the problem did not appear always.
3) Squeaking sound from clutch pedal ( some greasing should solve this ) and seat belt mounting point ( not sure whether any form of lubrication is possible here )

The beast is a pleasure to drive through traffic as well. As I mentioned earlier, I hope the clutch and steering remain as light as it is when new

Also guys one request - In the interest of common benefit to all members, generic issues should be discussed in the Official thread so that every one can read this. Thanks
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