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Old 9th September 2013, 13:37   #31
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Default Re: Ownership review - Mahindra Reva e2o

Congratulations on buying such a cool car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamyfc View Post
Battery Replacement
Yes, i will have to spend around Rs 1 Lakh (current rate) on a new Lithium-Ion Battery pack after 4-5 years.
This is a big amount and is something to be thought bout. However battery technology is evolving pretty fast.And the cost of the batteries have dropped dramatically. They have dropped in half in the last 4 years. Experts in the field say that they will drop further in the next 4 years.Here's a nifty little idea which would put to bed, this worry.
Anyone buying an e2o, can create a recurring deposit of Rs 2000 every month and thus use the interest got from a bank to pay for the battery pack!
This is the biggest worry. Any idea about how many kilometers it can run before the battery needs a replacement? Rs 2000 saved (to be spent later) almost negates the cost advantage.
I also want to know if you need to disconnect the battery if you are not using the car for a while (say 2-3 weeks).
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Old 9th September 2013, 14:13   #32
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Congratulations on buying such a cool car!

This is the biggest worry. Any idea about how many kilometers it can run before the battery needs a replacement? Rs 2000 saved (to be spent later) almost negates the cost advantage.
I also want to know if you need to disconnect the battery if you are not using the car for a while (say 2-3 weeks).
Thanks for the wishes!

I spoke to the customer support Senior Manager at Mahindra Reva and he said that the test cars with 120k km still gives decent range.

So i can use this battery even after the 3 year warranty period and if i drive say 12k km per year, it would have clocked 36k km.
The energy density of the Li-Ion battery pack goes down after the 3 year mark, that means less range. Thatz when you will have to make a decision, it will be totally upto you.

If you feel u can use the battery pack for couple more years, then go ahead but be prepared to get less kilometers per charge.

If everything goes well, and there is no major problem, i intend to use the pack for around 4-5 years. But people using the e2o in cities like Delhi, Chennai, Ahbd and Mumbai etc. That figure might be earlier.

True, the cost of the the battery pack is a point to be considered when going for an EV.
But even with the cost of the replacement battery pack, when u draw a table where you put down the costs, and compare it with the petrol cars of similar class (i10, i20, Micra, Polo) - u still make a saving.

Anyway i bought this car not bcos of savings - thatz just a bonus. I bought it as it was the right thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
This is already how it is set up.

Note the part labeled "battery cooling air-duct" that goes from the AC blower to the battery pack:

This pic is from the Official Review (Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review).

cya
R
As of now Mahindra Reva uses air cooling, where a duct goes in from AC. But in the future they should definitely use other cooling techniques like - Liquid cooling etc.

The Nissan Leaf - an electric car launched in USA, Japan and Europe had issues with air based cooling. In fact the Mahindra Reva's cooling system from the AC is better. The leaf guys use outside air to 'cool' the pack and this has led to issues in places like Arizona, Texas etc where they have 6 months of blazing summer weather. There customers reported drop in range after 15-20 months of using the Leaf.

Whereas Tesla Motors uses Liquid cooling, which keeps the pack at a constant 20 degrees irrespective of the outside temperature. Well, Tesla is expensive too!

Mahindra Reva will need to closely study their customers in the hot places like - Delhi, Chennai, Mumbai, Ahbd etc and make tweaks to their cooling system in the future.

Last edited by mobike008 : 31st October 2013 at 18:46. Reason: Merging Posts
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Old 9th September 2013, 16:07   #33
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Congratulations! Voted this thread a much deserved 5 star!

I love this car to bits. It fits our requirement's in almost all the areas, but it was launched a bit too late for us. We bought a fiesta A/T.

When I read the review on this car, my only reaction was: Damn! Wish it would have launched a little earlier, I would have been more than happy to plonk my money on this car just for the novelty factor. It is simply the best car from Reva.

I am not one of the people who likes EV's for their eco-friendliness. In fact, I am from the group who believes that the production and running of the EV's is more damaging to the enviornment. However, the techniques of manufacture of batteries have improved a lot in last 5 years alone. If battery demand increases sufficiently, then I think the technology to make it cleaner to manufacture and dispose the batteries is achievable. Mass market dynamics will come into play and it is possible.

A question for you though: Why are you so against giving money to the oil companies? Any trysts you have had in the past?

Thanks,
Simple_car
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Old 9th September 2013, 17:29   #34
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple_car View Post
Congratulations! Voted this thread a much deserved 5 star!

I love this car to bits. It fits our requirement's in almost all the areas, but it was launched a bit too late for us. We bought a fiesta A/T.

When I read the review on this car, my only reaction was: Damn! Wish it would have launched a little earlier, I would have been more than happy to plonk my money on this car just for the novelty factor. It is simply the best car from Reva.

I am not one of the people who likes EV's for their eco-friendliness. In fact, I am from the group who believes that the production and running of the EV's is more damaging to the enviornment. However, the techniques of manufacture of batteries have improved a lot in last 5 years alone. If battery demand increases sufficiently, then I think the technology to make it cleaner to manufacture and dispose the batteries is achievable. Mass market dynamics will come into play and it is possible.

A question for you though: Why are you so against giving money to the oil companies? Any trysts you have had in the past?

Thanks,
Simple_car
Hey Simple_car,

That sucks, you got a petrol based car.
Weren't you aware that Mahindra REVA were launching an electric car?
The news was out in mid 2012 especially in their FB page etc?

Ultimately they launched it in March 2013, after waiting in vain for our government to give subsidies.

So you don't think EV's are environmentally friendly.
Sure i shall agree with you. Any manufacturing process be it OIL, Batteries will use energy go generate the finished product. So nothing is good for the environment.

And as far as running an EV, why do u think they are not environment friendly?
Sure when powered by electricity running on Coal, EVs are not clean.
According to a 2007 study by the American organization - Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), EVs will reduce greenhouse gases and other emissions, even if the source of electricity is mostly coal.

Electric vehicles have the lowest overall energy conversion losses.
In an electric vehicle, chemical energy is stored in a battery. Lithium-ion batteries are used because of high energy density. Converting the chemical energy to free electrons (electrical energy) can be greater than 90% efficient some energy is lost to heat in cells and other battery pack components such as current conductors and fuses. Overall, drive efficiency of an EV is close to 80% - almost three times more efficient than an internal combustion powered vehicle.

Compare that to an Internal Combustion Engine, chemical energy is stored as petrol in a conventional car. Combustion is used to convert the chemical energy into thermal energy. Pistons convert the thermal energy to the mechanical work that turns the wheels. The conversion process is, at best, 35% efficient. The majority of the energy stored in the petrol is lost as heat.

As utility companies build more efficient power plants and bring more renewables in our grid, the efficiency will significantly increase. In turn, the overall vehicle efficiency increases to levels never to be recognized by internal combustion technology.

Thatz the thing bout EV's - they are ready to run on clean electrons right now - if you opt for Solar panels. Even if the grid cleans up in the future, your EV is already ready to run on clean electrons

As far as battery disposal is concerned - Lithium Ion battery packs are valuable even after their usage period is over. So it makes sense to use them for other applications and while disposing them, there are lots of metals etc that can be extracted for further use. So they are totally recyclable.

Why i dont like to give my money to OIL companies?
Hmm... This image will sums it up well.
Name:  Oil and earth.jpg
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Old 9th September 2013, 18:29   #35
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Congratulations and great review! Love the SMS feedback feature.

One of the things I absolutely hate about an ICE engine is that it has to be kept running even on idle. Given that there is so much idling time driving in the city, I see it as a HUGE waste of fuel. The electric on the other hand calmly waits for you to rev it once the traffic frees.

I've said it several times on this forum, I'd absolutely love to buy en electric 2 wheeler from a major brand, were it to be launched in India. I'm already one of the most efficient riders out there and an electric would surely be icing on the cake. Hero, Bajaj, TVS, are you listening?
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Old 9th September 2013, 18:32   #36
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Congratulations and great review! Love the SMS feedback feature.

One of the things I absolutely hate about an ICE engine is that it has to be kept running even on idle. Given that there is so much idling time driving in the city, I see it as a HUGE waste of fuel. The electric on the other hand calmly waits for you to rev it once the traffic frees.

I've said it several times on this forum, I'd absolutely love to buy en electric 2 wheeler from a major brand, were it to be launched in India. I'm already one of the most efficient riders out there and an electric would surely be icing on the cake. Hero, Bajaj, TVS, are you listening?
Hey hellmet - Did u check out?
http://www.heroelectric.in/
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Old 10th September 2013, 09:47   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
This is the biggest worry. Any idea about how many kilometers it can run before the battery needs a replacement? Rs 2000 saved (to be spent later) almost negates the cost advantage.
I also want to know if you need to disconnect the battery if you are not using the car for a while (say 2-3 weeks).
My thoughts exactly. That INR 2000 you put aside is the cost of fuel for a Tata Nano doing a 20 km per day city run 20 days a month (my daily office run 5 days a week).

I suppose a Tata Nano makes sense in a narrow "money-only" sense, without any enviornmental considerations. This is the way most people think however.

Electric cars are the future, but more so petrol and diesel electric hybrids I think. Even if primarily electric, a small IC engine will be needed to supplement the range, like what has been done with the Chevy Volt. And battery prices need to come down much faster for such vehicles to become popular in India and other price-sensitive economies.

The reason many governments are not promoting EVs actively is due to vested oil interests. The Indian Government earns huge Customs Duty and tax revenue on fuel oil, not to mention the sugar lobby, which earns enormously from the ethanol mixed with petrol. Why will they ever promote EVs? This is what happened with GM's ambitious EV1 project, which was extraordinarily futuristic for its time, but got zero support from the US Government and ended up failing due to this.

All vested interests will eventually lead to the downfall of mankind.
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Old 10th September 2013, 10:17   #38
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Congratulations !!

This is not just a review but you are spreading awareness on how convenient these cars to run.

May be only reason you would have to visit the fuel pumps is to check Air pressure

Coming to conventional oil based cars, there is a big lobby out there and like our Oil minister himself confessed the lobby even wants to forever keep our country dependent on oil imports(These politicians will do everything to remain dependent)

Just a small correction on the pollution front though: Majority of the electricity still gets generated by burning Coal. I am hoping to see more developments in alternate energy such as solar power panels etc. Then the electric cars can surely be called clean
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Old 10th September 2013, 13:16   #39
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Default Re: Ownership review - Mahindra Reva e2o

You mentioned in Section 1:

So the battery pack itself costs around $5500. This amounts to Rs 330000 and thus the high cost.

And in Section 2:

And whereas in cost of replacement - you have written as 1 Lac at the present market price


Pardon me - but this seems to be contradicting !

Could you please advise which one is correct 1 Lac or 3.3 Lac if it is 1 Lac then who will bear the difference or the costing of battery bank is false representation of M & M


Also the cost of charging seem to be incorrect - You have written

Now the e2o takes 10 units of electricity per charge. Suppose i charge say 3 times a week. That would mean 12 times a month = 120 units a month = Rs 480 (at Rs 4 per unit) just to operate the car. Compare that to Rs 5000 or 6000 people spend of petrol each month. The cost savings are huge.


1. My take it is that there is a conversion efficiency and thus 10 kWh (10 units of electricity consumed) cannot charge a 10 kWh storage facility (battery). Considering LIon batteries, it should take about 14 to 15 kWh

2. In Pune too, you cannot get electricity @ INR 4.00 kWh (unless you are talking about a seperate electricity connection). In a house , you will have other loads and thus, this will add to existing household consumption making the owner of the car jump to next slab of per kWh (unit) rate resulting in a higher payout. Savings will be there - no doubt, but certainly not in a manner in which you have suggested.

3. All batteries have a derating factor / cycle of charging and discharging. The consumption required for charging will thus increase after 300 cycles of charge / discharge (normally 1/3rd of the life of battery) and the commuting distance per charge will reduce resulting in reduced performance of the car.

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 10th September 2013 at 13:42.
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Old 10th September 2013, 13:32   #40
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

@Kamyfc - You are in which company? The pic in which people are admiring your car is near the JW Mariott gate.

I am in the Pantaloon office building only. Will search for EVA in the basement

Last edited by GTO : 11th September 2013 at 14:01. Reason: Please avoid usage of SMS language. r=are
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Old 10th September 2013, 14:02   #41
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Really good review!!

I'm really really interested in getting an e2o as my daily commute is just 6-7kms, my maximum distance covered in the car is 30-35 kms oneway and I have a suitable charging port as well in my apartment. However, the unknowns about battery life, battery performance in Delhi's 45-48 Celsius summers and cost of battery replacement are stopping me. Mahindra should really consider looking at a leasing model, atleast for the batteries
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Old 10th September 2013, 14:30   #42
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Great write up and thanks for sharing! I appreciate the reasons why you have bought this car and hats off to you. I am going to end up picking one of these as well sometime in the future - i dont mean Mahindra necessarily but definitely an electric - when would depend on the price.

I think its a great car to have to run errands in a place like Delhi and there are always errands / short runs on a daily basis which means travelling 10-15 Kms or about a 100 or so a week - which means one or max 2 full charges which is fine.

Additionally the size is fantastic when it comes to parking
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Old 10th September 2013, 14:39   #43
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

You made this car even more desirable. I am sure a few more ownership reviews are coming up soon enough on T-BHP after your review. I love the car & have been waiting since the day it was announced. I am sure to book one as soon as my financials allow me to. I have already written twice to Mahindra and the local dealer to find out when this is going to get launched in my city.

Looking forward to more and more updates from you on the drive. Please keep us updated, I am subscribing to this thread. Enjoy your car thoroughly and keep us posted with every significant bit of development or experience.

Last edited by arpanjha : 10th September 2013 at 14:40.
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Old 10th September 2013, 14:46   #44
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

This is what we need. Honest, thought provoking and detailed ownership thread on electric vehicles, which hopefully will make team bhp members the biggest enablers when it comes to accepting this tech in india.

Look forward to your journey with this machine, will be definitely considering e2o very seriously when time comes to replace my old honda city.
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Old 10th September 2013, 15:09   #45
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Hey, hearty congratulations on the most practical & "proper" EV on our roads till date. Wish you unlimited safe & happy miles with EVA.

I hope the day comes soon when EVs will actually make the numbers on roads. In my opinion the primary hurdle in EVs coming out in masses is the business and money perspective. The day practically usable EVs come in the reach of a common man's pocket, it will be curtains for fuel stations and the current assembly lines at all the major car makers across the world. Certainly there is pressure from these parties to block the development on this front to its full potential.
Once the crude runs out, these same people will start churning out EVs in masses.

On the other hand, I'm one of the guys in the list that you aren't exactly fond of . At the current level, I feel the available EVs are only useful as city runabouts to run errands to a large proportion of the market. To anyone who uses a car in access of 12k kms / year, I feel EV will be impractical. Simply because of its power & range limitations. At the same cost of the E2O, one can get a much larger supermini. The biggest plus of it is - ~5 minutes of filling time. I can fill it up whenever I want to. In case of an EV, it needs at least a few hours for a full charge. Most people will like the E20 undoubtedly but I suspect it will generally be the 2nd car for those who already have a gas/oil burner. Kudos to you for your green step!

I absolutely agree with the "green" side of the EVs. But at the same price of a hatchback, not too many will select a car that they cannot take for a longer drive - ok just once an year. I also suspect that in day-to-day scenarios, at least a few times I will have to answer "Oh I'm sorry...I have to charge the car!" when there is an urgent need.

On the other hand, my dad will be an instant best friend of yours when he reads "I'll take the train / bus for long distance" line from your post. He has always opposed having a car with this same statement

Its a wonderful & purposeful initiative that you've taken. All the best & keep the updates coming. Rating your thread well deserved 5 stars. Cheers!

Last edited by Reinhard : 10th September 2013 at 15:15.
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