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Old 11th September 2013, 11:22   #61
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Default Re: Ownership review - Mahindra Reva e2o

First of all, hearty congratulations for getting the ONLY electric car sold in India. Pity that the government is doing nothing to help the environment. As all of us know, there is a big lobby of ICE car manufacturers and oil companies that should be restricting our government to do something...

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Originally Posted by kamyfc View Post
Anyway i bought this car not bcos of savings - thatz just a bonus. I bought it as it was the right thing to do.
You are the man! It really takes a self-less heart to put your hard-earned money for supporting an eco-friendly effort. And I think yours is a wise decision too - in the coming years, the capacity of the battery packs (kWh / kg - the number of units of electricity that can be stored per kilogram of battery) will definitely improve and the cost would reduce. I think that a few years down, you would be able to get a new battery pack that weighs the same as the existing one and costs much lesser, but giving you double the range...
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Old 11th September 2013, 11:31   #62
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Congratulations on the car and the write up was fun to read. If I may add a few points which is purely my opinion.

This car cannot sell in every city in India. Not Mumbai and not in cities where are there concepts of flats rather than 'houses'. Charging the car would simply not work for someone living in a flat at 5th floor or 10th floor. Yes if you live on the ground floor, it would maybe work if ur parking is close to the house, otherwise not.

The price and the 'I cannot travel out station equation' both make it unfeasible. I mean, spending 7 lakhs, am I not justified in going Lonavala or even Panvel for that matter for a drive on a sunday ?This car won't make it happen.

For 7 lakhs, its too small.

I think, in India atleast, whatever feature list you come up with, innovative or not, there has to be one conventional success factor for it to work. For example.

Swift --> Maruti + super fun to drive

Figo--> Good space + low end torque

I20---> Hyundai + Engine + features

E20 --> ?
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Old 11th September 2013, 11:43   #63
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Congratulations on the car and the write up was fun to read. If I may add a few points which is purely my opinion.

This car cannot sell in every city in India. Not Mumbai and not in cities where are there concepts of flats rather than 'houses'. Charging the car would simply not work for someone living in a flat at 5th floor or 10th floor. Yes if you live on the ground floor, it would maybe work if ur parking is close to the house, otherwise not.

The price and the 'I cannot travel out station equation' both make it unfeasible. I mean, spending 7 lakhs, am I not justified in going Lonavala or even Panvel for that matter for a drive on a sunday ?This car won't make it happen.

For 7 lakhs, its too small.

I think, in India atleast, whatever feature list you come up with, innovative or not, there has to be one conventional success factor for it to work. For example.

Swift --> Maruti + super fun to drive

Figo--> Good space + low end torque

I20---> Hyundai + Engine + features

E20 --> ?

I live on the 6th floor in an apartment complex. And i use it.
Living in an apartment cant be a barrier.

True that. You cant drive out of station. And yes if u travel every weekend out of the city this is not for you.
But the 95% of the population - who go out of the city once in a while, they can rent a car once in while and use the running cost savings on such trips.

Swift --> Maruti + super fun to drive

Figo--> Good space + low end torque

I20---> Hyundai + Engine + features

E20 --> ?

Hmm how bout
- Super fun to drive in city (where 95% of driving happens) - with Auto Transmission.
- Instant Torque at 0 RPM - Throttle response is 'electric'
- Super Quiet
- Super advanced Tech features (the above 3 cars dont even come close)
- Intelligent & Clever
- Using Indian generated energy instead of imported foreign energy
- Keeping cities clean

Ah well i can keep going.
This car is not for people who travel a lot like sales people or business people who need to travel across cities etc.
But will suit 95% of the urban population. Costs will reduce with time and then this will be an even more viable option.

A EV costing Rs 5 Lakh with 200 km range - now that would hit the sweet spot, wouldn't it?
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Old 11th September 2013, 12:18   #64
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

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Originally Posted by kamyfc View Post
Thanks for the wishes
"Oh I'm sorry...I have to charge the car!" - LOL.
N
I mentioned in my earlier post that even if EVs run electrons got from COAL,
there are still efficiency benefits as compared to an ICE car.
Also u help in improving the quality of air in our cities.
Also u do ur bit in reducing the OIL that is imported from the middle East.
I'm proud that i use Indian generated Energy rather than imported OIL from Middle East.
So should u be, when u use an EV

Mod Note: Post Edited. Smiley usage is restricted to two per post on Team-BHP. Please do NOT use more than 2 smileys in a post.
Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.
True. BTW are you Ashwin?
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Old 11th September 2013, 12:49   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post

This car cannot sell in every city in India. Not Mumbai and not in cities where are there concepts of flats rather than 'houses'. Charging the car would simply not work for someone living in a flat at 5th floor or 10th floor. Yes if you live on the ground floor, it would maybe work if ur parking is close to the house, otherwise not.

The price and the 'I cannot travel out station equation' both make it unfeasible. I mean, spending 7 lakhs, am I not justified in going Lonavala or even Panvel for that matter for a drive on a sunday ?This car won't make it happen.

For 7 lakhs, its too small.

I think, in India atleast, whatever feature list you come up with, innovative or not, there has to be one conventional success factor for it to work. For example.

Swift --> Maruti + super fun to drive

Figo--> Good space + low end torque

I20---> Hyundai + Engine + features

E20 --> ?
The rate of such cars and bikes are going to come down with Governmental subsidy. SIAM should work on this and approach the competent authority to make it happen as soon as possible.

You have rightly mentioned about flats/apartments and the inconvenience in charging the car/bike. But days are going to come when you will have electric points near your parking slot which will be connected to your electric meter.

Let's hope for the best.
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Old 11th September 2013, 14:07   #66
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamyfc View Post
------
The battery pack can only store 10kwH worth of energy, even thou u feed it 14/15 kWh worth of energy the Battery Management System will cut the power to the pack.
So ultimately only 10kWh worth of energy is fed to the battery pack.
May I request you to please see related article at Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car

1. All electric cars are consuming between 27 - 28 kWh of energy per 100 miles. Thus if we convert miles to km, it will be around 17 kWh / 100 km range. In my previous post I suggested about 14-15 kWh because of light fibre based body. The only possibility I can look at is that battery is partially charged and thus from part charge to full charge it is consuming less electricity, in that case again the overall consumption per km of distance covered has to remain the same. You may consider revisiting your consumption estimates.

2. 10 kWh of electric consumption cannot result in 10 kWh of storage. Conversion efficiency has to be there for everytime energy changes its form. In electric cars it will be at two stages - Electrical to Chemical (when battery is charged) and then Chemical to Mechanical (when the car operates). I am sure Reva / M & M have still not produced the technology which other international players like Toyota (which leads EV market) have. I beg to differ on your opinion on 100% conversion efficiency. Even in Labs the highest conversion efficiency achieved for LIon batteries is around 96%, field use has to be between 80-85%.

And please do not forget about the disposal issues of batteries if such cars are produced at mass scale, we are already finding it difficult to manage e-waste across the globe. Yes conventional fossil fuel based vehicles have other problems and therefore they are not good for the enviornment too.

The long term solution has be around fuel cells / hydrogen - for the time being lets wish all the best to EV and welcome them but as part replacement, the earth cannot stand 100% replacement of fueled cars with EVs - we cannot replace one problem with other.

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 11th September 2013 at 14:22.
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Old 11th September 2013, 14:26   #67
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Lightbulb Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

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Originally Posted by Ascari View Post
Whoa man! You hate Oil? The Internal Combustion Engine? Wow! That is the holy grail of petrol heads dude.The Tesla S may be fast but it still doesn't have the charm of the Internal Combustion engine! A silent drive? No thank You! I would prefer the noise the Internal Combustion Engine makes any day of the year...

To be honest with you I hate these puny little cars.I usually take the Hosur Road and these puny cars are annoying lane hoggers driving at 40kmph in the middle lane as the Reva factoryis situated here and their test drivers are eternally testing the damn things! I hate them...But you know I am old fashioned and a topgear fan and the natural consequence being I hate these puny electric cars! So no offence,enjoy your drive but please stay out of the fast lane!
Paradigm shift it is... Think of it in this way, if we were to define one piece of technology since the industrial age which has impacted the entire world, it has to be the internal combustion engine. Being an automobile engineer I truly believe that it is a work of art, evolved over a period of more than a hundred years. But do you really think it gets the same kind of respect it deserves from the world right now? It is abused and misused in ways in which OEMs themselves cannot imagine in their dreams would be possible.

Imagine a world in which people use these "puny-little electric cars" for all their mundane transportation needs and use the ICE powered vehicles and precious little oil left for true driving pleasure. I think this would be a true petrolhead's ultimate wet dream. Use of renewable electricity to power these electrics would also mean that the world will get the much needed breath of cool and fresh air(global warming).

Being a T-bhpian itself means that you are a petrolhead to some degree so no point in bashing someone for their choice of an automobile.

You are free to express your concerns over the drawbacks in the car but remember one thing that the automobile industry itself has taught the world - the principle of mass production dictates that more people buy such vehicles, more money would go into making the vehicle better and cheaper and ultimately you get your "practical electric car"(whatever that means to you).

For all the Top-gear fans - the electric car bashing that they do on the show might seem funny and sound right(in being a "loyal" petrolhead), but these were the same guys who laughed after showing the DUSTER on their news section in one of their episodes. Little would they imagine that this one car would create an all new market segment and drive crazy sales numbers in the country in the midst of the worst industry slump. These are also the same people who were concerned about what JLRs next car would look like after TATA took over, when TATA helped to keep up the amazing work goinf and importantly protect and create more british jobs.

The time of the electric car has arrived and no one can deny that fact. We should be proud of the fact that an Indian manufacturer(REVA) has succeded in creating the world's first practical electric car - almost a decade before ELON MUSK "redefined history" our own CHETAN MAINI did it here quietly. The REVA team truly deserves respect from the auto-enthusiast community. Even another of those EV1(Ref: google who killed the electric car) excercises by the oil lobby will not work now. The facts are laid out in plain sight for everyone to see.

P.S: I was an ardent Top-gear fan in another life

Last edited by DReddy : 11th September 2013 at 14:32.
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Old 11th September 2013, 14:55   #68
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Just discovered this thread. Congrats for owning a new type of car. I respect your environment consciousness. By the way, since it sends SMS, what is the validity of the SIM in your car? Who pays for that?

I remember Chetan Maini telling that more than 50% of power in Karnataka comes from hydro power stations and we need not always think about polluting side of power generation. I am sure if we move to using electric cars, we will be motivated to find better and greener solutions to power generation and storage.

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Old 11th September 2013, 15:04   #69
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

This is called shift of paradigm. I would like to congratulate for you as this has been started from buyers like you. You are right 95% to 99% time cars are used for local chores which does not need power or luxury. And this is an example to save money with proper investment. For rest 1% to 5% usage you can rent car. Self driving car rental has started to grow in India and in Pune as well. You will be having option for renting in this case. You want SUV for adventures road trip or you want sedan for comfortable cruising long distance, you have option. Oil burner users like me do always need to compromise on this thing. I have a hatchback, I will do road trips which are suitable for hatchbacks.

With fuel bills rising exponentially and we are now sure that crisis is not far away. Time is not away where you will see fuel bills upwards of Rs.150 per liter. You will be continuously appreciated for your purchase decision in coming time.

With solar panels becoming more cheaper day by day, day is not far away when you will run your car free of cost. Once again congratulation for your sensible buy.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 11th September 2013 at 15:11.
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Old 11th September 2013, 19:51   #70
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Hope you dont mind me posting this on your thread Kamyfc but thought it to be relevant given some of the more 'social' reasons for buying the electric are being discussed extensively here

Would definitely recommend members seeing the below documentary , absolutely fantastic - on how the technology has been around from much earlier than what most people think and how different companies got together , General Motors included , and killed it for various reasons.

Summary

With gasoline prices approaching $4/gallon, fossil fuel shortages, unrest in oil producing regions around the globe and mainstream consumer adoption and adoption of the hybrid electric car (more than 140,000 Prius' sold this year), this story couldn't be more relevant or important. The foremost goal in making this movie is to educate and enlighten audiences with the story of this car, its place in history and in the larger story of our car culture and how it enables our continuing addiction to foreign oil. This is an important film with an important message that not only calls to task the officials who squelched the Zero Emission Vehicle mandate, but all of the other accomplices, government, the car companies, Big Oil, even Eco-darling Hydrogen as well as consumers, who turned their backs on the car and embrace embracing instead the SUV.
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Old 11th September 2013, 21:43   #71
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Thank you everyone for all the best wishes. I really do appreciate it.

I hope i have answered most people's queries and if there is a disagreement, then its only due to opinion differences. And that is perfectly normal.

There is a tendency to look down upon EVs by experienced drivers and that is normal. As its a paradigm shift, the concepts do take time getting used to and that is understandable.

Its not a car for everyone, but those who are interested should really take a test drive and once u start using her - u will be really surprised at the quality of engineering, sophistication and an unmatched experienced that cant be provided by similar ICE based hatchbacks

But I wholeheartedly recommend the Mahindra e2o, for people who want to drive in the city.

I shall be checking the forum rarely for next few months as am heading out for a while. Not to worry - there is a vacation mode that can be activated using the smartphone and the BMS in the battery pack will ensure EVA keeps breathing
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Old 12th September 2013, 11:48   #72
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Hey Kamyfc ... First of all, wow! what a detailed and elaborate report on a car that truly is looking to 'shift paradigms'. Enjoyed every word of it (especially your thought process on buying an all electric). I plan to buy one in the future (in 2-3 years) and I plan to 'borrow' your thought process! I have a quick question for you though!

You had mentioned the following:
"The range estimation is spot on especially when you don't use the AC. No bugs or issues so far. But it remains to be seen if the range estimation by the BMS in the e2o's battery pack will still be accurate after say a year's usage. For now, Mahindra's got it right."
I understand that batteries degrade over time and you are implying to see if that is captured in the algorithm I guess. When and by what measure do you feel that the range estimation is thrown off? I ask this since I plan to commute close to 45km one way and assuming I can't charge at work that makes it 90km in total and I am a sucker for using the A/C a lot.
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Old 12th September 2013, 12:03   #73
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Great review. Read it fully.

Got inspired

I am currently in search for a replacement for my 10 year old Santro.
Called up Mahindra showroom (TVS) in my city.
No discussions on the specs as kamyfc has explained it in detail.

The on road price is 8,80,000 for the top end.
The low end version costs 7 90 000. (Thiruvananthapuram)

All my enthusiasm blown off. Its way over my budget

Fact is, we cannot buy this from an economical perspective, but only from an environmental perspective.

For the time being Nano seems to be much better option !!
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Old 12th September 2013, 12:23   #74
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

@Dreddy

I disagree.As a petrolhead I find it a sacrilege if someone spews venom on the IC Engine.I am actually surprised that in a forum of petrolheads not many have objected to this denigration of the IC based cars.Cars are not tools for us, are they? They are the object of our love and attention.Just because an EV is more efficient than IC based cars,it need not mean they are better please!

Anyway the whole thread was like reading a script from the marketing department of Mahindra Reva.No negatives? Common people! What about driving pleasure? Is that not one of the main criterion we use to buy cars?

Yes I understand that oil is depleting and all but I just don't think EV's are the future.I hope it's not.

Ascari

Last edited by Ascari : 12th September 2013 at 12:27.
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Old 12th September 2013, 12:37   #75
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

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@Dreddy

I disagree.As a petrolhead I find it a sacrilege if someone spews venom on the IC Engine.I am actually surprised that in a forum of petrolheads not many have objected to this denigration of the IC based cars.Cars are not tools for us, are they? They are the object of our love and attention.Just because an EV is more efficient than IC based cars,it need not mean they are better please!

Anyway the whole thread was like reading a script from the marketing department of Mahindra Reva.No negatives? Common people! What about driving pleasure? Is that not one of the main criterion we use to buy cars?

Yes I understand that oil is depleting and all but I just don't think EV's are the future.I hope it's not.

Ascari
Ascari,

e2o might not be a complete drivers car in traditional sense, but to say that electric cars don't give equal or more driving pleasure would be way off the mark. Just go online and read the reviews and see the pictures of Tesla owners. India has a long way to go forward before we get a tesla equivalent.

on the other hand, e2o accelerates faster than IC engine and is perfect for zipping around in a city probably better than the hot hatches in the same price range.
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