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Old 15th September 2013, 11:29   #91
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Massive congratulations "kamyfc" on your purchase of Mahindra E2O, and it makes it even special as this is your first car .

Would like to quote few more very interesting things about Mahindra E2O. I had test driven this vehicle for a couple of days with a smart phone given to me which was connected to the car, at the end of second day a message popped up saying "I have never been driven so efficiently, do you want me to update this on Facebook?", now thats something which surprises you, a car that truly talks to you.

Did you know that you can actually charge this vehicle through Solar Powered Panels which will further reduce pollution and cost? This is absolutely future ready and proud that an Indian based company is ready for tomorrow's auto technology.

There is also news that a technology is been developed where you can connect Mahindra E2O to an inverter and it can power back your house as a UPS, now thats a Multi Purpose Vehicle

A central server is connected to all Mahindra E2Os and it can monitor the health of the car everyday, and it even has the ability to sort out few errors in the vehicle by just sending a code to the car as the car is connected through a GSM SIM, "pretty clever".

How cool is it to switch on the AC through your smart phone even without getting inside the vehicle, 007 Style?

People have a perception that the vehicle is priced high, but did you actually know you could save upto Rs.4.5L in 5 years as against a petrol car which runs 40-50 kms a day, thats almost equal to price of another B segment car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharatbs View Post
The motor is very small, it translates to 25 bhp @ 3750 rpm, and for ~7.5 lakhs on-road Bangalore. It is still extremely difficult to justify an EVA.

I have observed this car being driven on the outer ring road, and with cars zipping past you all around I must admit it is intimidating to drive this small electric car.

I wonder what type of consumer is Mahindra targeting with the EVA? Would it make more sense to produce at least a 100 bhp car with around 250 Kms charge, and how much would something like that cost?
We all know that IC Engines are only 18-20% efficient, so if you are considering a car with 100 BHP, it translates to only about 20 BHP of usable power, the rest are lost due to various stages of power transfer in the IC engine.

Unlike IC engines, electric motors are 50-60% efficient, hence the 25 BHP of the electric motor almost translates to 12.5 to 13 BHP at the wheels, thats a decent amount of power and can be compared to a 65 BHP IC engine.

Last edited by Rehaan : 15th September 2013 at 11:42. Reason: Merging consecutive posts.
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Old 15th September 2013, 11:54   #92
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Congratulations mate. Good to see that you have chosen an uncommon path. The initial experience has been nicely narrated.

By the way a small question, I had read a review of this car on a blog (the link was tweeted by Mr.Mahindra). I think both the cars are same.

I saw many of our friends trying to prove that E2O is a wrong car. But guys should we really continue that? The selection of a car is individual's choice and we should respect that. Please enjoy the ownership thread.
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Old 15th September 2013, 11:56   #93
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

First of all, congratulations kamyfc on your buy. Must be exciting and satisfying to own a cool work of technology that doesn't hurt the environment. Having said that, I'm a bit dismayed at the 'us' vs 'them' contest that this thread has become. Instead of celebrating an innovation that hopefully should be the future of motoring, we have got caught up in a tu-tu main main.

I'm a petrolhead and may not agree with some of the points that you've mentioned about conventional fuel cars, but right now I'm more interested in knowing what your car can do rather than what petrol cars can't.

Technology, whether new or old has its limitations. So to each his own.

While the prohibitive costs of initial ownership of electric cars are certainly a put off for the price sensitive Indian market, the long term benefits of these cars will have far reaching impact, on us, our kids and theirs. Lets just hope our governments are more supportive of this technology and help manufacturers provide cost effective solutions in the future.

Till then, do keep us updated on your car. We would like to know your experience in the long run.
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Old 15th September 2013, 12:04   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamnos View Post

We all know that IC Engines are only 18-20% efficient, so if you are considering a car with 100 BHP, it translates to only about 20 BHP of usable power, the rest are lost due to various stages of power transfer in the IC engine.

Unlike IC engines, electric motors are 50-60% efficient, hence the 25 BHP of the electric motor almost translates to 12.5 to 13 BHP at the wheels, thats a decent amount of power and can be compared to a 65 BHP IC engine.
Wrong! According to this link, the efficiency of an ICE is measured in terms of total available energy of the fuel being burnt v/s the energy actually generated by the engiine, not in terms of bhp.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency

When we say an ICE is only 25% efficient, it means if the engine generates 100bhp, the fuel burnt by the engine was capable of 400bhp. This loss occurs due to heat absorption, incomplete burning and mechanical friction within the engine. Once the engine generates 100bhp at the driveshaft, there may be loss of power due to transmission and other components and the actual power available at the wheel may be less than 100bhp. A detailed explanation of the same can be found here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

For an electric car we could say the thermal efficiency of the motor may be higher than that of a gasoline powered engine simply because the motor may not have mechanical valves and pistons to cause significant loss. Also we could say that since the transmission is similar to a CVT and there are no traditional gears and oils used, the transmission losses would be minimal and more power would be available at the wheels. However let's not go overboard by saying an electric car generating 25bhp could be comparable to a traditional gasoline powered car generating 65bhp.
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Old 15th September 2013, 12:07   #95
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamnos View Post
We all know that IC Engines are only 18-20% efficient, so if you are considering a car with 100 BHP, it translates to only about 20 BHP of usable power, the rest are lost due to various stages of power transfer in the IC engine.

Unlike IC engines, electric motors are 50-60% efficient, hence the 25 BHP of the electric motor almost translates to 12.5 to 13 BHP at the wheels, thats a decent amount of power and can be compared to a 65 BHP IC engine.
I am talking about a more powerful electric car than at least keep up with rest of the traffic.

How did you arrive at the 20bhp at the wheel for a 100bhp IC engine?
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Old 15th September 2013, 12:28   #96
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Wrong! According to this link, the efficiency of an ICE is measured in terms of total available energy of the fuel being burnt v/s the energy actually generated by the engiine, not in terms of bhp.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency

When we say an ICE is only 25% efficient, it means if the engine generates 100bhp, the fuel burnt by the engine was capable of 400bhp. This loss occurs due to heat absorption, incomplete burning and mechanical friction within the engine. Once the engine generates 100bhp at the driveshaft, there may be loss of power due to transmission and other components and the actual power available at the wheel may be less than 100bhp. A detailed explanation of the same can be found here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
Hi "honeybee",

If we consider fuel as 100% energy then out of it only about 18% is converted by the IC engine, there will be a further reduction of energy when it is transmitted to wheels, kindly click on below article.

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...gy_losses.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharatbs View Post
How did you arrive at the 20bhp at the wheel for a 100bhp IC engine?
Hi bharatbs

Click on the following link for energy losses

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...gy_losses.html
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Old 16th September 2013, 00:00   #97
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
I am not disagreeing with your maths, but priorities while buying a car varies from person to person. For some it may be running costs, for some others it maybe exclusivity, new technology, environmental friendliness etc.

And, not feasible for Indian consumer or technology not suitable for Indian market etc. are standard comments for anything new to our market. But someone has to start it right? Today’s exception may become tomorrow’s norm.
Mahindra's target was 600 per month which they said would be good, but the result was disappointing raised to N in reality. Even the Sandstorm is exclusive, but its irrelative to what a user wants.

The ground reality supports the 'standard comments' you consider in this case. Today's exception might become tomorrow's norm, if the infrastructure is in place, otherwise these exceptions which are failures now will remain failures tomorrow, day after and for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamyfc View Post

I hear a lot of worry bout replacement of a battery packs -
I shall offer you a different perspective -

In the first 30k km of the life of a oil powered car, you would need:
* 3 to 6 oil and oil filter changes;
* maybe spark plug changes if long life spark plugs are not being used;
* 1 or 2 fuel filter changes;
* 1 or 2 air filter changes;
* 2 to 3 coolant changes;
* possibly 2 brake pad changes and brake rotor changes (depends on material and driving style) since there is no regen braking with a oil only car;
* possibly a timing belt change;
* might start seeing engine oil leaks which need to be fixed;
and lots of maintenance things that a petrol engine requires.
Then, when you need to fill up petrol and keep going to petrol pumps for so many years....

If a battery starts to degrade after 30k km, then you have had 30,000 km of not having to do the crap I mentioned above.
Now thatz an interesting way to look at things isnt it?
You know putting up the Mahindra E2O is one thing, but discrediting IC cars by supplying wrong information is another. Did not expect this.

Let me give the 'right maintenance' schedule of IC cars of today so that you know that they don't need the earth and moon to work right.

- 3 oil and oil filter changes or an oil change every year at the running of 10,000 km per year and 30,000 km in 3 years.

- 3 air filter changes, but they cost almost nothing.

- coolant change is every 20 thousand km or 2 years. In 30 thousand km, you will change it only once and be half way through the other.

- ROFL @ 2 brake pad changes ? Not even a single brake pad change at 30 thousand kilometres unless you drive it like you stole it.

- BRAKE ROTOR Change?- Not even close to it. Sorry

- No timing belt changes too at 30,000 km Sorry again.

- Spark plugs need changing every 20 thousand km and they too cost peanuts. If you compare a Wagon R, spark plug, they ll be less than 400 rupees for the entire set.

- Have not seen an oil leak even once in my Swift Diesel which stands at 4.5 years and 80 thousand km.
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Old 16th September 2013, 00:00   #98
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Of all the talks on practicality, I couldn't find any mention about usage of rear seats! Since it being a 2-door car how easy it is to get into & out of rear seats?

On photos it feels like the doors can be a bit longer to be a coupe. Thanks for the nice review.
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Old 16th September 2013, 13:06   #99
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by viggienomad View Post
Of all the talks on practicality, I couldn't find any mention about usage of rear seats! Since it being a 2-door car how easy it is to get into & out of rear seats?

On photos it feels like the doors can be a bit longer to be a coupe. Thanks for the nice review.
Hi "viggienomad"

The rear seats are quite comfortable, in fact the vehicle is slightly longer than Tata Nano.

The front doors are huge and ingress and egress to the rear seats are pretty easy, I am 5' 9" and could easily step in and out of the rear seat.
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Old 16th September 2013, 15:52   #100
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Default Re: Ownership review - Mahindra Reva e2o

Hey kamyfc! This was a real eye opener. All this while, I just ignored this thread and even the official review thinking this is about a car I would never consider.

But seriously wow!! I am bowled over by the nifty features in this car! This is THE ideal solution in today's clogged cities! Good on you to actually get this car and put up such an exhaustive review.

I will definitely be checking out this car the next time I go to the Mahindra Service Center! Congrats buddy and do keep us updated on how the battery performs over time!
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Old 16th September 2013, 20:01   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamnos View Post
If we consider fuel as 100% energy then out of it only about 18% is converted by the IC engine, there will be a further reduction of energy when it is transmitted to wheels, kindly click on below ...
If an engine is rated for 60bhp, it means it produces 60bhp at the driveshaft. If an electric motor produces 28bhp, it means it produces 28bhp at the deiveshaft. How can we call them equal?
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Old 16th September 2013, 20:32   #102
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

@kamyfc - Excellent thread, very informative, thanks for sharing
The experiences you've listed in detail like the text messages for various scenarios, your drive to the hills, etc is awesome. After reading this, almost all questions/concerns that I had about EV's are answered!

I was a bit confused with your references to ICE, since it's an acronym used commonly these days for "In Car Entertainment" but I think you mean "Internal Combustion Engine"
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Old 16th September 2013, 21:02   #103
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@kamyfc , After reading thru thread I am also inclined to buy an electric car and im in market searcing an used electric car for my better half.

im planning to pick a 2008 model electric car from delhi with following details and Im placed in Bangalore. Do you have heard any feedback from service center guys about these models or do you have any feedback?

2008 Model second owner and done 31,000 KM
silver color( Originally it was Red colour and Second owner has converted it to silver )
not even a single scratch,
brand new tyres, with alloys,
top model, with defogger, a.c
Brand new batteries installed about 2 months ago ,
Batteries cost - 98000,
3 years warranty of batteries with warranty card
and the life of batteries is around 5-6 years
the car is totally new, don't have to spend even a single rupee on it
mileage is about 80kms on a charge (with ac)

Im not getting a decent deal in Bangalore , so im searching across India to find a sweet deal.
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Old 17th September 2013, 10:07   #104
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Default Re: My Mahindra e2o 'EVA' - The beginning of a paradigm shift

Kamyfc congratulations on you new possession. Its truly a piece of art. But i am not so pleased with the IC engine 'bashing' that you have been doing here.

From what i know, battery operated cars had been in production even before IC engines came into the picture so there must have been adequate reason why IC made the electric car extinct.
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Old 17th September 2013, 14:23   #105
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Originally Posted by soarer View Post

Im not getting a decent deal in Bangalore , so im searching across India to find a sweet deal.
Do please check the economic impact carefully before buying. The low running cost per km may not translate into net savings always.

Of course if you have decided to go electrical, it's a different matter.
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