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Old 18th August 2015, 17:15   #181
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

Hi Viddy, I had a discussion with Anup of Code6 and he was very informative to say the least.
Any suggestion will be helpful.
It's good you got a chance to speak with Anup from Code6. This gives you an idea on both options. Looks like both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Unfortunately since I don't have much experience, I am not the right person. I could only tell you of options available.

Jaggu has his Thar remapped from Code6. You could check with him or try and see some Jetta owners who have had remap done from Code6.

As you mentioned Pete's remap is verified and known in the market but the disassembly of the sealed ECU is difficult to overlook.

Pick your poison I would say
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Old 18th August 2015, 17:21   #182
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Thanks Santosh! I know that I have been asking you the same question again & again, even though you have explained it before and also clearly put-it across in your thread. May-be I needed you to assert the same once more. Thanks again for your patience.

I will go with Bilstein B6 + 215/55/R16 P3ST. Both will be done tomorrow as Shibin has scheduled the same.

I will get the car serviced this week-end and get the tuning done after that.
Have had enough experience with tuned and mapped 2.0tdis. I can tell you for certain that 215 P3ST will not be enough for your Jetta after the tune, when you put your foot down. In first and second gear at full throttle there will be a loss of grip. 225s will take care of that pretty much, and especially the PS3s which are performance tyres.

Like I mentioned before, do the tyre upgrade first. If you are adamant on the Bilsteins do it a few days later. Just so you know the difference each mod is making.

Also let me mention, I've run after market dampers before too. And your low speed ride will become more stiff, and the car will feel more jiggly. For high speed driving and cornering it improves the stability a whole lot.

Of course I have repeated this many a time, but I just though I'd say it again.
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Old 18th August 2015, 20:18   #183
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
I can tell you for certain that 215 P3ST will not be enough for your Jetta after the tune, when you put your foot down. In first and second gear at full throttle there will be a loss of grip. 225s will take care of that pretty much, and especially the PS3s which are performance tyres.
PS3's are of 2011 manufactured. Nothing other than that is available. That is the problem. Not many options too.

How will 225/55R16 be on 6.5J ? Error is 3.48% - This is available in P3st and GR90.

What is your take on GR90? Review seems to be very good and cheaper than P3st.

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Like I mentioned before, do the tyre upgrade first. If you are adamant on the Bilsteins do it a few days later. Just so you know the difference each mod is making.
Let us get over this. Bilsteins have already arrived and will be fitted tomorrow.


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Of course I have repeated this many a time, but I just though I'd say it again.
Thanks.
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Old 18th August 2015, 20:24   #184
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Available PS3 tyres are very old - 2001/2002 manufactured. Any suggestions?



P3ST is available in 215/55/R16 and not in 225/50/R16.
I was checking for availability of PS3 225/50/r16, and snapdeal has many vendors who have these in stock. Check it out. If availability problem is resolved, you should really consider 225s, because of the planned remap.
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Old 18th August 2015, 20:43   #185
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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I was checking for availability of PS3 225/50/r16, and snapdeal has many vendors who have these in stock. Check it out. If availability problem is resolved, you should really consider 225s, because of the planned remap.
Whatever is available across India is 2011 manufactured.
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Old 19th August 2015, 06:02   #186
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Whatever is available across India is 2011 manufactured.
That is bad. So, the next best option for you should be the 215/55 P3STs. Looking forward to your driving experience post the remap and tire/suspension upgrade

This also becomes a problem for my tire upgrade which should be in another 6 months. I too had finalized 225/50/R16 PS3 for my next upgrade, but now I am back to square one
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Old 19th August 2015, 19:12   #187
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

Update @ 41K Kms on the ODO: Bilstein B6 - Done and dusted!

Suspension upgrade was carried out today: To be precise, only the damper struts were replaced and the stock springs were retained, as planned.

Once the stock struts were removed, extent of deterioration was easily noticeable.

Rear struts had lost 80% of its dampening effect (there was no oil leak) - when depressed fully, it was taking more than 45 secs to get back to it's normal position. This means that the car was virtually sitting on the springs, on uneven surface!! Front struts were relatively better with about 60% deterioration in its dampening effect.

Going by this, I would have had to replace stock struts any time - at the most, it would have run another 10K Kms. If I had delayed replacement, ride quality would have been compromised. This clearly shows the kind of roads I travel on. Even though I felt the problem with the suspension, I would never had known the extent of damage, had I not removed / replaced them.

After this, I drove the car for about 30Kms in-city. I could not find perceivable difference in stiffness wrt stock struts - Body roll has considerably reduced. I have to further check on the highway. At this point of time, I do not think tyre profile upgrade will be necessary - It is that good. Off-course, tyre hardness could be felt (Old tyres). But suspension related issues are ironed out.

Old struts: I was offered 2K for the old struts (only front ones can be used). Any suggestion will help.

Tyres: I had been to the Michelin dealer - Unfortunately, there was another set of bad news. 215/55R16 P3st's were not available / not in stock.

Then I casually inquired about 2011 manufactured PS3. I was told that it was manufactured in the second half of 2011 and was still being stored in Michelin Company stock-yard. Further, I was given full assurance about the quality of tyres and was offered 4 tyres for 40K, in exchange with my old rotten ones - Price includes fitment / balancing / alignment - Weights extra.

I thought since the tyres are stored in the Company stock-yard, proper care would have been taken and so, their should not be a problem. I took the offer and placed order - NCT5's will be replaced with 225/50R16 PS3's tomorrow.

@Akshay - If I had not felt the problem with suspension, I would have definitely changed the tyres first. Since the struts were to be changed any way, I opted for Bilstein - This upgrade was a gradual transition for me. It was an informed decision, based on SantoshBhat's input and also a couple of my other friends. Please do not mind.
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Old 19th August 2015, 20:05   #188
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

Any reason you are not opting for the pilot sports 3, 225/50/16 ? And please do share your experience with Bilstein B6 as and when you have clocked a few kms on it.
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Old 19th August 2015, 20:42   #189
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Then I casually inquired about 2011 manufactured PS3. I was told that it was manufactured in the second half of 2011 and was still being stored in Michelin Company stock-yard. Further, I was given full assurance about the quality of tyres and was offered 4 tyres for 40K, in exchange with my old rotten ones - Price includes fitment / balancing / alignment - Weights extra.

I thought since the tyres are stored in the Company stock-yard, proper care would have been taken and so, their should not be a problem. I took the offer and placed order - NCT5's will be replaced with 225/50R16 PS3's tomorrow.
Great that you are going with 225/50. The tires usually have a shelf life of 6 years (minimum). The tires you have ordered are about 4 years old, and still have a minimum of 2 years life. With the 225s and Bilsteins, your car should be total fun to drive.

During your discussion with the dealer, did you get to know why the dealers are not getting fresh stock of PS3s? Is PS3 out of production?

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Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Any reason you are not opting for the pilot sports 3, 225/50/16 ? And please do share your experience with Bilstein B6 as and when you have clocked a few kms on it.
Tanveer, PS3 is Pilot Sport 3. Chethan has indeed gone for Pilot Sport 3 225/50/R16
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Old 19th August 2015, 20:46   #190
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Great that you are going with 225/50. The tires usually have a shelf life of 6 years (minimum). The tires you have ordered are about 4 years old, and still have a minimum of 2 years life. With the 225s and Bilsteins, your car should be total fun to drive.



During your discussion with the dealer, did you get to know why the dealers are not getting fresh stock of PS3s? Is PS3 out of production?







Tanveer, PS3 is Pilot Sport 3. Chethan has indeed gone for Pilot Sport 3 225/50/R16

Oh dam, Yes! My bad, Surfing a lot about remaps and tyre upgrade these days, Just dint get it.
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Old 20th August 2015, 09:06   #191
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
please do share your experience with Bilstein B6 as and when you have clocked a few kms on it.
Thanks Tanveer, I will definitely post a complete review once all the upgrades are done.

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Great that you are going with 225/50. The tires usually have a shelf life of 6 years (minimum). The tires you have ordered are about 4 years old, and still have a minimum of 2 years life. With the 225s and Bilsteins, your car should be total fun to drive.
Thanks Graaja. For tyre width selection, I had a couple of things running at the back of my mind.

First of all, I wanted to know if Bilstein prompted profile upgrade for a comfortable ride. If I had to increase profile, I had 2 options - 215/55 or 225/55. Second option had a 3.5% error. This was the reason, I was considering 215 width.

After driving the car with Bilstein, I was convinced that the profile can remain the same. Little stiffer wrt stock; particularly noticeable during sharp responses, but no-way uncomfortable.

Second thing is, 225 width is slightly on the higher side for a 6.5J rim. I would have ideally preferred a 7J rim for a 225 width.

Third thing is: I have seen Pete's remapped Vrs, with new 205mm width P7 tyres. When I inquired, Shibin said that 205mm width is good enough, if the tyre compound is good - He did not have any doubt about the traction. He is a guy who normally drives at insane speeds.

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During your discussion with the dealer, did you get to know why the dealers are not getting fresh stock of PS3s? Is PS3 out of production?
This is an imported tyre and very much in circulation globally.

From what I could understand, Michelin could not liquidate their 2011 stock yet. This means that the tyre demand / volume required in Indian market is low - Lower than they expected / planned. Import cost would have gone up substantially over the period of time - This can make it non-viable for Indian market. This may be the reason they are not importing it again.
Attached Thumbnails
VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag007190.jpg  

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag007390.jpg  

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Old 20th August 2015, 16:25   #192
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

Fantastic update Chethan. Those Bilsteins will make their presence felt more at higher speeds where it will give you that feeling of control. Also one thing I really like about them is the way the car handles when the car is fully loaded. Typciall when you are fully loaded you will find the rear of the car squatting and a spongy bouncy movement over uneven surfaces. With Bilsteins it remains tight and you hardly feel like you are driving a fully a loaded car.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
After driving the car with Bilstein, I was convinced that the profile can remain the same. Little stiffer wrt stock; particularly noticeable during sharp responses, but no-way uncomfortable.
See that's the beauty of the Bilstein B6. Its not all out sporty and is ideal for someone who wants a little bit sportier handling without losing big time on the ride quality. Keep tyre pressure at about 30 to 32 PSI for city and about 35 PSI for highway for a good balanced ride.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Third thing is: I have seen Pete's remapped Vrs, with new 205mm width P7 tyres. When I inquired, Shibin said that 205mm width is good enough, if the tyre compound is good - He did not have any doubt about the traction. He is a guy who normally drives at insane speeds.
It depends on what kind of a driver you are. If you really like to launch the car hard from signals etc... then the 205s will spin and lose traction. I won't be surprised if the VRS owner went with 205s to smoke em But if you take it easy at launch in 1st and 2nd then they will hardly spin. I had worn out 205 Primacy LCs for nearly 4000 kms after my remap and not once did I experience wheelspin for the simple reason that I genenally take it easy from standstill love to feel that in gear acceleration thrust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
From what I could understand, Michelin could not liquidate their 2011 stock yet. This means that the tyre demand / volume required in Indian market is low - Lower than they expected / planned. Import cost would have gone up substantially over the period of time - This can make it non-viable for Indian market. This may be the reason they are not importing it again.
I think they imported a big quantity and could not sell it easily. Now they are liquidating stocks bit by bit. Hopefully once stocks are exhausted they will import fresh stocks. But expect prices to jump by atleast 40%. The tyres are just brilliant though.
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Old 20th August 2015, 21:40   #193
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
@Akshay - If I had not felt the problem with suspension, I would have definitely changed the tyres first. Since the struts were to be changed any way, I opted for Bilstein - This upgrade was a gradual transition for me. It was an informed decision, based on SantoshBhat's input and also a couple of my other friends. Please do not mind.
I eat my words. Did not think the dampers could be this worn out. In all the Skodas, and VWs I've seen around with friends. No dampers seem to go before 70-80k kms. Is it possible the high (relatively compared to us who keep 30psi) pressure, and extra hard Goodyears had a role to play in this?

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During your discussion with the dealer, did you get to know why the dealers are not getting fresh stock of PS3s? Is PS3 out of production?
Just consolidating their line up. Michelin has only mass market tyres, nothing real performance. What trouble I had to go through to get one 225/45 R17 PS3 a few years ago for my Bimmer.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Third thing is: I have seen Pete's remapped Vrs, with new 205mm width P7 tyres. When I inquired, Shibin said that 205mm width is good enough, if the tyre compound is good - He did not have any doubt about the traction. He is a guy who normally drives at insane speeds.
A vRS stock with 205s spins on full throttle in first gear and second gear. With the remap my 225s are just about enough. And the PS3s that I had were far grippier than the P7s. I don't know who this vRS owner is, but he is definitely missing out.
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Old 21st August 2015, 12:39   #194
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

Update: Replaced NCT5 with PS3 and took a long drive on Mysore road. Tyres are still in the initial run-in period. Grip is excellent - Tyres just stick to the road. Tyres noise has reduced by about 60% wrt the old NCT5's. FE has reduced by about 10%. I am sure that this will further improve after running about 500kms.

Oil change service is planned next. Following work will be carried out during service.
  1. Engine oil / Oil filter / Fuel filter / Air filter / AC filter.
  2. Check Battery condition.
  3. Replace brake oil.
  4. Change Front Brake pads.
  5. Check Software version and update if necessary.

Problem faced: Both left-side door actuators (front & back) have started giving intermittent problems. They have been ordered and will be replaced during service. With that, all the four door actuators of my car would have been replaced, under standard warranty.

Any suggestions will help. Please.


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Fantastic update Chethan.
Thanks Santosh: Your inputs really helped. As the effective result wrt the combination of B6 + Stock springs would be different for each model of the car, I wanted to experience it on the Jetta and then decide about the tyre profile.

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Keep tyre pressure at about 30 to 32 PSI for city and about 35 PSI for highway for a good balanced ride.
I have always followed this guide-line for the Jetta. But, I have not exceeded 37 PSI on the rear wheels with full load.
VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0074.jpg

Now onwards, I will keep tyre pressures at 32 PSI in city and 35 PSI on highway. Problem is that I do not have a Nitrogen filling station near my home and so, it becomes an additional exercise for me to top it up when I go on highway trips. I wish Shell outlets had Nitrogen filling stations.

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
It depends on what kind of a driver you are. If you really like to launch the car hard from signals etc... then the 205s will spin and lose traction.But if you take it easy at launch in 1st and 2nd then they will hardly spin.
Very true. A map upgrade need not mean that one likes to launch every time one starts to move.

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I had worn out 205 Primacy LCs for nearly 4000 kms after my remap and not once did I experience wheelspin for the simple reason that I generally take it easy from standstill love to feel that in gear acceleration thrust.
I fail to understand this Santosh: If this was the case, why was the tyre upgrade necessary? If braking was an issue, the same could have been upgraded - Right? OR was the tyres loosing traction during hard-braking?

My understanding is: Since the remap utilises the reserve potential of the engine / GB, tuners advise against frequent launches. Driving like the way you do is a very safe way for utilizing those extra horses.

In-fact, if the tyre does not hold traction and spins during launches, it is good for the remapped engine / GB as it is less stressed (stress released). IMO, tyres with excessive traction can exert higher stress on the engine + GB.

Remap is just a bridge between normal-powered and super-powered cars. It can never replace the super-powered cars, just because the numbers suggest.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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I don't know who this vRS owner is, but he is definitely missing out.
I won't be so sure Akshay - It depends on the individual driving style and taste: Extra power can be used in many ways. To assume that he has not planned his action, is not done.

Last edited by Chethan B G : 21st August 2015 at 13:09.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:04   #195
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Update: Replaced NCT5 with PS3 and took a long drive on Mysore road. Tyres are still in the initial run-in period. Grip is excellent - Tyres just stick to the road. Tyres noise has reduced by about 60% wrt the old NCT5's. FE has reduced by about 10%. I am sure that this will further improve after running about 500kms.
Are you sure FE drop is 10%?!! That's too high. IMO it should not be more than 3 to 4%.

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Now onwards, I will keep tyre pressures at 32 PSI in city and 35 PSI on highway. Problem is that I do not have a Nitrogen filling station near my home and so, it becomes an additional exercise for me to top it up when I go on highway trips. I wish Shell outlets had Nitrogen filling stations.
I am never convinced about the virtues of Nitrogen over air. Air is good enough for me.

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I fail to understand this Santosh: If this was the case, why was the tyre upgrade necessary? If braking was an issue, the same could have been upgraded - Right? OR was the tyres loosing traction during hard-braking?
Oh those tyres still had life in them, so I ran them for some time. But I always wanted wider and grippier tyres. I wanted grippier tyres not so much for loss of traction during launch but for better stopping power. I felt the brakes were fine but the tyres were not holding on to he road that well. I tend to drive a lot on GQ highways and with better tyres my stopping distances are lower and general confidence levels while pushing the car is higher. With the same B6 set up, the control and confidence when driving on wider PS3s is much higher than when I was on PLC. Now you may ask why did I upgrade to 16" Borbets when I already had OEM 16" Alloys? The answer is : Looks. The Borbets are 1/2" wider, and I opted for a slightly negative offset for a wider stance. These alloys have completely transformed the looks of my car!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
My understanding is: Since the remap utilises the reserve potential of the engine / GB, tuners advise against frequent launches. Driving like the way you do is a very safe way for utilizing those extra horses.
I think Its Ok to launch hard. You may end up frying your clutch a little sooner, but that apart I don't think there's much problem. Generally tuners advise not go WOT (wide open throtle) for very long durations as the parameters have been altered and the boundaries have been pushed further They don't want the engine to work for too long on that extreme edge.

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
In-fact, if the tyre does not hold traction and spins during launches, it is good for the remapped engine / GB as it is less stressed (stress released). IMO, tyres with excessive traction can exert higher stress on the engine + GB.
I am not convinced about this theory of yours to be honest!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Remap is just a bridge between normal-powered and super-powered cars. It can never replace the super-powered cars, just because the numbers suggest.
We are nowhere close to super cars with our remaps. It just allows us to exploit some hidden potential of our car. Manufacturers detune their engine for various reasons. THey take into account factors like poor fuel quality, clogged filters, poor lubrication etc.. so that the engine can work fine even under adverse conditions. With remaps we can extract more from the same engine but we need to ensure that its given good conditions and support with respect to above factors.
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